Methadone clinics are fucking evil.

[gnossos (OP)]

I will be so fucking thrilled when I don't have to go to the methadone clinic every day ever again. After 2 years at 3 different clinics, I feel like I've seen the darkest side of humanity. I'm in the NW Georgia/Chattanooga area (right on the border). Also lived and went to a clinic in Atlanta for a few months. Not sure if it's just down here in the Bible Belt or what, but the people that run these places just seem like pure fucking evil incarnate.

I mean, it's a business that thrives off the misery of others. Methadone clinics are in the business of giving addicts another, even more severe addiction. At my absolute worst as a junkie I never felt so shackled by an addiction until I got on methadone. Before first getting on methadone, I was just barely staying well anyway. I wish I'd just been sick a few days or a week and got it over with rather than piling an yet another addiction on top of the pile I was already working with.

The clinic I'm at now was awesome at first. They were new so they had less than 200 patients, so patients got more one-on-one, personalized care. That was the first clinic where the clinical director seemed so involved and hands on with his staff and patients. This was the first staff member I'd ever met at a methadone clinic who seemed to genuinely care about helping people.

That didn't last long.

Anyway, is it just me or do methadone clinics tend to cause more harm than they help, more often than not? I'm sure the type of addictions people are using methadone to overcome varies by location, but here in rural GA it seems like 90% of the patients at my clinic were never hardcore opiate addicts, definitely not to the point of needing methadone. After 2 years at this clinic, I've only ever met one other person who went on methadone to get off heroin.

When I strike up a conversation with another patient in the waiting room and we start romanticizing [bragging] about our old habits that landed us there, I always assume they're junkies too. I'm then surprised when they say they were just popping pills - usually morphine or something. I'm not saying that pills can't give you just as bad a habit as dope, but I just don't feel like someone who was eating a handful of Lortabs every day needs 120mg/day for the next 10 years or the rest of their life to kick.

--------------------------------------------------------

My main issue with methadone clinics is that I think there needs to be a policy or guidelines in place that treat the addiction with a daily dose of methadone that corresponds. Someone who's been shooting a couple grams of heroin every day shouldn't be on the same dose as someone who was popping a Lortab or Oxy here and there.

It's insane to me the way the staff at methadone clinics make you feel like you're gonna need to be on methadone the rest of your life, or at the very least for years. I originally planned to take methadone just long enough to get through the heroin withdrawals. Maybe a few months at most, then I'd be done. Two years later, I feel like I've been tricked.

I don't know about clinics in other regions of the country, but the counselors at the 3 I've been to here in GA are fucking jokes. They tell you at intake how the counseling is just as important as the medication, that they're not just there to give you your daily dose and send you on your way.

[Z]

That's not my experience.  The system is a bit different here, but the programs aren't that different.  Don't most of the private clinics have big waiting lists and turn people away?  If that's the case then it makes no sense that they try to trap you there.  I don't know your clinic, but it just doesn't seem logical.  Maybe they want you to have clean urine, and good prospects for staying clean and stable before you go down.

You might have been sick for a few days and then gone right back at it for X reason.  I know that is how I have done it over and over again.

I'm responsible for my addiction.  Methadone is a way to deal with it short term.  One of the main reasons addicts fail at stopping drugs is that drugs are the only life they know.  Methadone has let me get on with my life to the point where I can see a different way to live.  It gave me time to work on some of my problems without having the pressure of a quick relapse back to where I was.  I've made new friends who don't use drugs all day, and have rekindled some family support.  My fuckups have been fairly minimized by having methadone to fall back on.

Maybe you should look into some counselling of some sort?  Just showing up and drinking your juice won't change much for you.  There isn't really a magic bullet for dealing with addiction.

[gnossos (OP)]

Administrator Comment

Originally titled, "Maybe it's the methadone I hate not the clinics."

Why Methadone Doesn't Work

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2012/jan/10/why-methadone-drugs-dont-work

The first task of the day in the pharmacy is to prepare the methadone, a little over a gallon this morning. Its supervised daily consumption has been the mainstay of the harm reduction philosophy that has largely driven heroin addiction treatment for the past 20 years. Not all pharmacies supply methadone, but in those that do, the pharmacist sees addicts more regularly than any other health professional.

George, employed and drug-free for almost 10 years with her commitment to Narcotics Anonymous, still tells me of the conflicting emotions she felt as each day she stood in my busy pharmacy with her daughter in the pram, and consumed the sticky green methadone mixture, followed by a glass of water to help stop her teeth rotting from it, gradually reducing the dose. Today, pharmacies have private rooms for such activities, but the daily grind continues. One inner-city pharmacy has even relocated to a former bank, and the walk-in vault is now the "drug cupboard" accommodating the quantity of methadone required.

Methadone is a highly addictive synthetic opiate, more addictive than heroin and harder to withdraw from, but it survives the digestive system and so does not need to be injected. Most addicts loathe it. They call it green gunk and grimace as they swallow. All of today's addicts have been coming to the pharmacy for months, some for years. And that's the problem.

The Centre for Policy Studies thinktank has called methadone maintenance "nationalised drug dealing". Instead, it promotes recovery through residential detox and abstinence-based rehabilitation. But there are pitifully few rehabilitation beds available at "reasonable rates" of around £600 a week, and none in the NHS.

The National Treatment Agency for Substance Misuse (NTA) recognises that addicts have been parked on methadone for too long, and now promotes abstinence as the treatment goal, with time limits on the duration of methadone maintenance. Jane, a drug therapist, shakes her head in disbelief at the new recovery targets and the lack of facilities and experienced staff to handle such a change. She and her colleagues worry about how the new emphasis on recovery – welcomed as it is – will affect the most vulnerable people, for whom harm reduction is fundamental. The cherry picking of new clients to attain NTA targets seems inevitable.

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And what of those heroin addicts not in treatment? They visit me regularly for clean needles to inject filthy brown street heroin. There is growing evidence to support treating these long-term relapsing addicts with pure heroin. A blueprint for the requisite regulatory changes has been created, but until the laws are changed they must remain thieves and prostitutes, rather than patients, victims of legalised social neglect.

The children of the addicts in my pharmacy today live in blighted social circumstances. Unless the fundamentals of social inequality are addressed, it is hard to see them having very different lives from their parents. Drugs may fuel addiction, but they don't cause it. Those politicians who, in the face of all contrary evidence, stubbornly see the drugs as the problem are no less misguided than the addicts who see drugs as the solution.

By the end of the afternoon I have dispensed the gallon of methadone to 33 addicts and supplied three more with clean needles. They should all be back after the weekend.

• Peter Dawson is a locum pharmacist in West Yorkshire.

Administrator Comment

 I merged this into the original thread. Please don't make a new topic for every response. Z

[OpiXPO]

I take issue with two parts of this. Saying your drug free while taking methadone irks me. Going from addict to completely free of drugs is no easy chore, and it really devalues that accomplishment for those who actually do it. There is a guy at one of the meetings I go to who raises his hand saying hes been drug free for over a year and offers to sponsor, at an NA meeting, even though hes on methadone and occasionally is nods out, with glassy eyes and pinpointed pupils.

Second, I don't think this article really understands the purpose of (or at least what I view its purpose is) of methadone. I don't believe its a good choice for getting off drugs for most people. I do think however its a good choice if you need to get control of your life again. It will offer you some stability while you put your life back together and gets you out of the scene if your serious. Only having to dose once a day, and that its not normally tested for on pre-employment drug screens lets you get a job and gets you some peace in your life not having to constantly worry about if you have enough in your stash to make it as long as you need to.  Of course, it's got the nickname "liquid handcuffs" for a reason, and people need to realize that. People are going into it without really understanding what it's value is, and because of it have not realistic expectation.

[Lolleedee]

Personally, I have has great success with methadone.  I find the people who complain about "liquid handcuffs" are the ones who years later, Are still going every fucking day because they haven't pissed clean once.  I only have to show up once every two weeks...takes five minutes.  I spend way more time going grocery shopping every week, but I don't say I have "grocery handcuffs".  Spending 5 minutes, every two weeks to keep my addiction in check is a small price to pay.

I do not agree with the article that says it is more addicting than heroin.  Addiction is a state of absolute...you are addicted or not.  The substance has very little to do with addiction...it is the behaviors..the scheming, lying, stealing and being an all-around asshole when using that is truly the hallmark of addiction.  Being physically dependent on methadone is a trade off...I have a physical dependency, but I have my life back because I'm not chasing the drugs.  Methadone allows my mind to stop screaming, along with my body, so I can focus on the life I destroyed using...and my life gets bbetter every day.

This is my second time on methadone..was on about 10years ago, and I find the statement that it is harder to get off than heroin bullshit.  If you taper slowly, it does take longer,but I was able to taper down with absolutley no withdrawal at all!  Does it suck going down a milligram or two every week? Yeah, it took what felt like forever, but I did it in complete comfort.

My clinic has awesome ccounselor's.  Mine is a real M.S. level counselor and has been doing it for 20 years.  Talking to her has been instrumental in my recovery.

I hate when people think methadone somehow "takes away" from the people who just quit.  Why can't those people just be proud of themselves and not compare themselves to others.  Methadone isn't easier...it's different.  I only hear this shit from NA people.  I spent years in the rooms and it is filled with sickness and cult mentality.  I know it works for some and I'm glad it is an option for them.  But, I don't go around telling them their recovery is "wrong" and that they should try MAT, so why do they feel they have a right to shove their unscientific "program" down my throat?  Why can't we just support eachother, ferchristsakes!!!!

P.S. If the guy at the meeting is nodding he is either mixing with benzo's or on way to high of a dose.  On the correct dose, you don't nod or have pinpoint pupils.  He is probably mixing.

[Chip]

I found my clinic very fair and my doctor was awesome.

we never talked about my opiate usage much and he laid the maximum take homes on me when he saw me struggle with parking. I was also not penalised for using other drugs ... how mature and fair, I thought.

I have used the clinic to detox a couple of times, the last one being forever.

I always saw the clinic as a burden though and a huge impediment to balancing a job as well.

I have had only one lousy doctor and quickly came to realise that it's the luck of the draw.

what's the alternative? losing lots of your money to a habit ? I had a mortgage to pay and was not going to jeopardize my house for any drug.

sure beats waiting for the man.

[bignasty]

sure beats waiting for the man.

^^ That's what I always tell folks at the clinic I go to when they're bitching about the nurses taking too long to dose them. At least the nurses don't say 5 minutes over and over then dose them an hour or two later. The clinic is much better than any habit unless you're getting scripted a good amount and take everything as directed. I pay $100 a week for 120mg's of MD a day which would cost at least $72 a day if I was buying them on the street or at least $100 a day if I was using H

[Z]

There are no weak batches at the clinic either.  It isn't perfect for sure.  The most successful people seem to use it to walk way from the hustle and build another way for themselves. 


Honestly I don't know if a dope script would help the same way.  Would it keep me right here in the constant cycle of sick and high.  Hustling to fill the gaps.  I honestly don't know.  It would definitely help role who don't want out yet to live a safer more productive life. 


I might still find myself switching to methadone after a while for stability.  When I started on test it took off the couple had things about methadone for me. 

[dizzle]

methadone clinics aren't evil actually, at fucking all.


I never understand when people say this.


Person walks into clinic, says "I have a drug (heroin) problem, please help me"

Clinic says "OK I'll give you drugs regularly, but I won't give you a bunch of them at once unless you prove your off illegal drugs"

Person says "Sure whatever, I just need help"


6 months later person drives their life off a cliff for reasons totally unrelated to methadone


THE CLINIC IS FUCKING EVIL



riiiiiiight. It's the clinics fault you can't stop smoking crack and taking fistfuls of benzo's. (not directed at gnossos but that's usually what happens)

[OpiXPO]

P.S. If the guy at the meeting is nodding he is either mixing with benzo's or on way to high of a dose.  On the correct dose, you don't nod or have pinpoint pupils.  He is probably mixing.

Dunno, I dont talk to him ever actually outside of the meeting and he doesn't stick around after the meeting. All I know is that he is very quickly wearing his welcome out saying that he is over a year clean and trying to pick up sponsees when he is nodding out in literally every meeting. Don't get me wrong, I'm cool with how ever people feel they need to deal with the addiction to get their life back on track, and if you want to get methadone and go to NA, thats cool too. Claiming you have a year clean annoys me after having actually done the program and been drug free for over a year, but I'd still mind my own business on that. Him trying to pick up sponsees makes me want to kick him out.

[wanderingmind]

Very interesting thread so far!

My experience with MMT is complicated.  I swore I'd never get on methadone and it ended up becoming the only option for me a number of years ago.  I was homeless and spending all of my money on H.  Life fucking sucked!  A friend of mine, who ended up OD'ing a few years ago, got on methadone and very quickly got "better."  I looked into it and figured I'd give it a shot.

I enrolled at the clinic and started MMT.  I quickly found that many people there were mixing benzo's with the 'done and I wanted to see what all the fuss was about.  Goddamn did I fall in love with methadone and xanax.  Like many people on MMT, I kept upping my dose until it became a hassle to keep upping it (paperwork, doctor visits...)  I ended up going up to 150 mg's and was taking on average of about 18 mg's of xanax a day.  I was able to finally kick the benzo thing and started getting "better."  I wasn't using anything besides the methadone.  I got to the point where I only had to go in two times a month.  It was very hassle-free.

The problem I had  with methadone is that it absolutely killed my drive to improve my life.  I slept a lot and basically just existed.  I ended up being on/off MMT for nearly five years.  During these five years I did not do anything except exist.  Things improved, for sure, relationships and stuff like that...but, I just felt stuck. 

In my experience during my time on MMT.  There are three basic types of people on MMT.  1) There are the people who get on MMT and continue to fuck around with drugs.  These people never get extra carries.  They go in to the clinic 6 days a week.  2) People like me who got on MMT and maybe fucked around for a little while and then got on the "straight and narrow."  They end up getting extra take home doses.  But, they basically just exist like I was doing.  Not a whole lot improved in their life (i.e., unemployed, sleep a lot, not very motivated...)  3)  The rarest people who were able to stay on the straight and narrow, get a job or stayed at the job they were at and life dramatically improves for them.  I never met too many of these type of people.  But, the people I did meet I was always jealous of them.  They seemed to be doing so well! 

I am incredibly grateful that I got off of methadone.  It did what it was supposed to do, kept me from sticking a needle in my arm, but it wasn't right for me.  Even when I was on a lower dose of 90 mg's, I still felt stuck.  I think what others have mentioned about needing something other than "just taking methadone" is spot on.  Whether that be AA/NA or some other thing that helps you improve your life is a necessity.  Without that other thing, you will just stay stuck.

Bottom line is that MMT works for you, that's awesome!  If you find that MMT does not work for you, get off and try something else.  Unfortunately, there's not a whole lot of other options    I am currently on Suboxone.  In the past I've been on Suboxone and continued to use on the weekends.  I wasn't sure if bupe would ever work for me.  I got back on Subs a couple years ago and started going back to AA and it made all the difference.  My plan was to stay on subs for about a year and get off.  I ended up doing dope again and recently got back on the subs.

EDIT:  I just saw what OpiXPO wrote and totally agree.  If someone is taking methadone as prescribed (not on too high a dose either) I think they should be totally welcome at all meetings.  If someone is on MMT and is either at too high a dose or is fucking around with benzo's...it's wrong to say that you are "clean."  Picking up sponsees in that state rubs me the wrong way.

[Thoms]

I think people who make a bunch of threads calling things evil need to stop blaming all their problems on everything but themselves. It's not the fucking chemical. It's the person

[OpiXPO]

Shots fired!!

[onewayonly]

Yeah I overall think methadone is fair and equally distributed in america. Now I think smoking pot should not prevent carries but whatever.
Yea I go in every day 365 days a yr. but whatever even if I saw my dealer once a week it took me more time to drive to him since it was 90 minutes. The clinic is 5 minutes a day and way cheaper so what can I really bitch about. I mean  if I quit pot I would get carries quickly.

Its allowed me to save mad money while my job performance has gone through the roof in a good way.
I don't think its a coincidence I was about to get told I was performing bad for the first time ever at my job.
Well I got a great raise and great review this yr which I have been on methadone.

So yeah it saved me money, job and family is happy. I do need to start lowering 2 mg a week. I'm on 100mg

[OpiXPO]

Don't rush it one-way, things are going well for you so take a little time to enjoy it unless you have a reason to. 2mg a week is kinda fast isn't it? Why not go for every other week instead?