The MMT clinic

[Griffin (OP)]

I have been on MMT for 2 years and was on subs for 9 months before that. I recently had 100 days clean because I got arrested and did 30 days and had to go c/t in jail. I was trying to see if I could make it without going back on it but the depression, lack of energy/motivation, lack of sleep, and overall quality of life was enough for me to go back. When I wasn't taking methadone I was still going to the clinic twice a month for drug therapy because its free with medicaid(methadone is free too) and my counselor is very cool and helpful.

I was originally on 280 mg and am now on 60. I started on maintenance very young and was wondering how old everyone was when you started maintenance? We are at capacity at my clinic and they can't take anymore people in. I was very lucky to get back on they originally told me I had to wait for 4 months to get back on methadone once I decided to. They could only get me on the waitlist because I was a recent mmt patient who was still going to the clinic for counseling and because I am on probation. I was able to get back on after 3 weeks because my counselor pulled some strings and got me in to see the doctor.

The clinic I am at has gotten a lot of new people over the last 6 months and I would guesstimate at least 50% of the people are under 30. Also it seems like everyone there is on between 150-300 mg and the people who're under 80 mg are either tapering, or older and have been at the clinic for a few years. Is anyone else noticing this too?  I wasn't sure if this is just at my clinic or what. I heard two people talking to other people this week that made me start wondering about this. The first story was a lady who switched to the clinic to get off hydrocodone. The other was a guy complaining that people who hadn't been addicted to heroin and were only on pills before switching to the clinic should be able to go first in line to dose. I thought both were completely ridiculous, they had asked me when I started if I had atleast two failed attempts at getting clean. I don't know if that was a requirement then but it seems that question has gone out the window. 

They recently opened another MMT clinic in Denver because all the clinics are full I think there are about 6-8 MMT clinics that I know of at the moment here. I know that addiction rates throughout the country are going up and that its a problem amongst all races, ages, and social classes. It seems to be showing in the clinic as well.



Griffin

[OxyOpanaAlphaOmega]

Id like the details of the ct kick in jail?
I can't only imagine in horrors what that was like!
Your brave brave soul to go back on after what had to be hell!!!

[Chip]

up to 300 mg. ? wow ... at my clinic, you need a special authority from the government to go above 200.

but at my relatively tiny dose, i feel no negative side-effects - no way could i cope with the 80+ that i sat on for years; the sweating; the "drip" down my back - UGH !

sorry if i derailed your thread ... it's a bad habit of mine.

[Lolleedee]

I have a bunch of medical problems and take epilepsy drugs that make methadone less effective and the doctor won't let me go above 120mg (I am the only one at my clinic above 110...rediculous!)  I want to move where you are!!!

OH, to answer your question. I first got on methadone at 30 and stayed on for two years, got off, immediately started using and fucking up and finally started back again in 2013 at age 40.

[Griffin (OP)]

Ill go over the horrors of the jail c/t scenario I have tried to block a lot of it from my memory because it was that bad. It was bad enough that I was able to stay clean 100 days after I got out because I didn't know if I was going to prison or not and did not want to go through it again. The c/o's were the ones giving out meds which I thought was illegal. Aren't only people in the medical field allowed to give out meds even if they are otc?

I was allowed a tylenol in the morning after breakfast and one at lunch as well as one immonium during the day for the first 10 days but after they ran out they refused to get me more because they didn't want me to get constipated. Each pill cost 54 cents so it was $1.62 a day for those meds. They wouldn't let me have any meds at night because they were worried it would hurt my stomach or give me ulcers. I plead to no avail about that because night was the hardest part. It was freezing, your locked by yourself from 11-6 and I slept about 3 hours off and on every other night after the first week of no sleep. My eyes burned so bad from the lack of sleep and they were completely red. My eyes watered so much that I basically looked like I was crying because tears were running down my face constantly and that didn't go away even after 3 months. Around my eyes were completely black from the not sleeping that I was asked by another inmate and a guard if I had been punched because it looked like I had a black eye. After about 25 days when I was moved to another county I started to sleep a little better.

 I was originally on 18 months probation, and had about a month and a half left when I got the DUI charge so they gave me a warrant in that county after I got arrested. The warrant was for me getting a new charge so they revoked my probation for that. The main things I remember were the restless legs, constant eye watering, yawning, and the freezing cold pod. It was minimium security so we were allowed out in the pod with the other 6 guys for 16 hours of the day. That was a lifesaver because all but one guy in there were my age. (the other guy whose cell was next to mine was going to prison for 15 years for his 3rd time getting caught molesting children this time he got caught for aggravated incest for molesting his 8 year old niece who was mentally handicap)  Most of them understood what I was going through and were very cool and helpful. They would always ask me if I wanted there desert because I didn't eat for the first week and after that I ate very little and they knew sweets helped. Sleeping on the metal beds was almost unbearable because of the bone pain. Luckily in the first jail they didn't give a shit that I was using 2 mattresses if you can even call them that as well as having the 2 of the "thick" blankets. The guys in the pod definitely helped keep my spirits up.

When I first got in I got a hold of my dad and he said don't call him for a week because he was getting married and spending the week with his new wife. My mom couldn't afford to talk to me, the only person who could was my uncle who had been a drug counselor for a few years when he was in his twenties and we are pretty close. He told my family what was going on because I was driving there to see them and I didn't show up and they didn't know what happened to me. My oldest brother was driving supplies to oil fields at the time and he was going to be somewhat close to where I got arrested after a week, so he was able to get my car out and took it to Oklahoma. I gave him power of attorney so he could get my money out of my bank as well as end my lease and withdrawal from one of my classes that started the week I got arrested. Once he got my money and was able to put some on my books so that I could make calls to my family, I found out that no bail bondsmen was going to get me out even though I was offering 30-35% instead of the average 5-10% because I had the money. Because of my charges, my age, and where I was they didn't want to let me out because I was a flight risk. I didn't have anyone in colorado who could co sign because all my family lives in another state so they all said no. So after the first week I found out I wasn't getting out until they let me out which I didn't know if that was going to happen.

My bail was currently at $10,000. That was the hardest week I was in full-blown withdrawal and this was my first time being in jail for more than a week so when I found out I was getting out on bail even though I had $2500 saved up it took its toll on me mentally. They were originally offering me 2-8 years DOC. I had 2 felonies and 2 misdemeanors and this was the second time I have ever been arrested. The guys there really helped me mentally a few of them had done prison time and were just helping me get through the withdrawal by telling me how they dealt with being in jail and prison and the guilt and shame involved with it all. I had now lost my house, my job that I loved, it cost $800 to get my car out, everything I owned was in Oklahoma and when I got out I wasn't allowed to leave the state to go get it. If I was convicted of the felony I could no longer get financial aid, I was in school and was worried that I would fail the classes and lose my financial aid if I did get off the felony. By the time I got out I was negative $1000 in my bank account, homeless, carless, jobless, and didn't have anything except the clothes on my back and I have no family here. To say the least that second week I was struggling very hard mentally and physically. I had no way to get out and I didn't have a court date for another 4 weeks, to try and get my bond dropped or sentenced to get out, but even if I did get out of that county. I would still have to stay in jail until the other county picked me up and then I had to wait until I could get a PR bond or sentenced in both counties to get out of there. I didn't know how any of the court stuff worked really because the first time I got arrested I just took the first plea deal they gave me because I was withdrawaling so bad so I took a bogus plea deal to get out of jail.

My parents are very cool and are very supportive in whatever I do. I have always been able to tell them everything so they definitely helped me get through my time in jail. Even though I was only in for a month it felt like a year, time dragged on so slowly. Luckily they had some good James Patterson books so reading and playing dominos was what I did the entire time. I think the 18th day was the last day I puked, and I had my own toilet in my cell at the first jail so shitting every 6 minutes wasn't as bad as the other jail where there were 4 toilets for 70 dudes and they didn't even have anything in between the toilets so you were always right next to someone shitting or pissing. Luckily my neck pain wasn't as bad as it usually is during withdrawal my hips and back felt like I had been in a car wreck in the freezing cold metal beds. My cell was right next to all the plumbing so every time anyone flushed it was extremely loud in my cell, the light I'm the cells are on 24 hours and for whatever reason I get headaches when i w/d so that sucked as well because the only way I could get the light out of my eyes was to pull the blanket over my face.

I lost 25 lbs in there though which is good because I gained 90 lbs in the first year that I got on methadone. I have always been real small my entire life around 130-140 lbs and Within 9 months I was over 200 and I was 225 when I went into jail and 200 lbs when I got out 30 days later. The food wasn't as bad as most jails they gave you an oatmeal cookie, honey bun, or some kind of desert with every meal and it was the best jail food I have seen. The other inmates gave me there extra blanket so that I had two of the thick blankets. Even though the blankets are about 5ftx5ft so you need 2 to cover your whole body. This was the only jail that would allow you to turn the heater or exhaust fan on if it was freezing or hot. The guys in the upstairs cells would let me turn on the heat occasionally in the first two weeks because they could see I was freezing, some guards would let me be out of my cell with my blanket on some guards wouldn't. The second jail had the ac on the entire time even though it was snowing the whole week I was there and they had terrible food and 70 people to a pod. I was very glad I got there after most of the physical stuff was over.

The only county in colorado that will give you methadone is Denver and luckily I live in that county now. My home state of Oklahoma has to give you methadone in all jails and prisons because of a law that happened after a few people died a few years back. So I knew that I wasn't getting any of my meds when I got arrested, even though they took my lock box which had a week of doses in it and all my other meds and didn't give them back after I got out. I was pulled over for veering the cop said I did not cross the lines but I was going from side to side with in them. When he came up to me he said my eyes looked blood shot and had me get out to do a sobriety test. I failed at the part where you have to close your eyes and stand on one foot as you count to 20 and you can't count to fast or slow and you can't lean either way without failing. I obviously leaned to one side trying to keep my balance even after 100 days clean I couldn't do it. So they arrested me and asked if I wanted to take a blood test which I did because I thought I would get off sense I only had my prescribed medication in me and it had been around 18 hours sense I had taken my methadone. I never took more or less of it either so I had been on the same dose for 18 months. Sense I am on probation there are no laws against search and siezure they can search you, you car, or your house at any time for any reason without a warrant. So when they arrested me when I failed the sobriety test they completely trashed my car, ripped the back of the seats off and broke it so it won't stay attached to the seat any more, took everything out of everything and threw it on the floor. They found my meds i had taken with me that i put in the same bottle because I'm an idiot. I had oxys from a few months back 2 months of prescriptions sense I didn't take any when I got them they were in my blood pressure medicine bottle along with some xanax that I take every now and again to sleep so I brought them because I was going to be sleeping on a couch at my moms house. Yes I know I am an idiot for taking them with me and not having them in there correct bottles I packed at 5 that morning before going to work and didn't even think about it. I didn't think about it cause they are all legal prescriptions but that obviously does not matter.

I was charged with felony possession because I didn't have there bottle to prove they were legit prescriptions they charged me with felony intent to distribute sense there were like 150 pills in my blood pressure meds bottle, misdemeanor dui, and a misdemeanor for revoking my probation. In the end I got the dui and a misdemeanor possession for the pills being in the wrong bottle even though I had a prescription. I got 18 months probation, 9 months of a revoked license, $4000 in fines, plus ill have to take at least $1000 worth of classes for 9 months and I have to pay around $600 for the breathalyzer in my car even though I haven't drank in almost 4 years.


sorry for the novel thank you for listening sometimes i just gotta vent from this clusterfuck it was definitely a horrible experience that i will never forget.


Griffin

[Griffin (OP)]

I thought it was strange that everyone was on such a high dose it was easy for me to get up to 280. You have to goto the doctor if you want to go up and he can only authorize 30 mg at a time at a rate of 10 every other day, so you would have to see the doctor once a week or every other week. But you talk to him for 5 minutes and then he lets you go up or down. When I first started methadone I was taking 150-240 mg of oxy 3-4 times a day so I didn't think it was that high comparitively to what I was taking. I would be in withdrawal at night before I got up above 250 but I think split dosing would of been a much better option than such a high dose. I'm glad that my tolerance went down and that 60 holds me just fine for the 24 hours and I feel like I can go down a little bit and be just fine.

The doctor agreed that most people that are on those high doses should be on split dosing instead but said it is really hard to do that because they have to be at phase 3 to be allowed the take home and they have to complete the peak and trough test and then it has to be approved from someone other than the doctor. There are so many people that take around 200 it blows my mind that everyone is on a high dose. When reading online about people's doses I realized how strange it really was that everyone is on such a high dose. Thanks for the replies I was just wondering if what I was seeing was just at my clinic or if everywhere was like this. So many people there are under 30 and taking above 200 mg that I had to see what was going on.

 My clinic is very cool though the people that work there are really nice and understanding and helpful and they even bitch about some of the regulations and how it is so strict to keep your take homes. I was getting 2 weeks at a time before I got arrested and now I have to wait 90 days to just get saturday and sunday take homes, and it will take 18 months to get back to where I was. My counselor thinks its dumb that if you miss an appointment, dose, drug test, or fail a UA then you go back down to zero take outs. I understand a lot of the restrictions and why they want to do everything they can to stop any diversion but some of it is a little much. I spilled a dose on the way out of the clinic because the lid wasn't on right and I had to go down one phase even though they saw what happened but because of the regulations they couldn't give me another dose to replace it and had to take me down a phase so it took me 60 days to get back to that phase.

Griffin

[Diacetylmorphinefiend]

Damn dude you got fucked with no lube. Personally sober or not I will never consent to the road side testing as it is total subjective bullshit and will only hurt you in court. I have never seen or heard of anyone being declared sober after being asked to perform the test. You must be a tough motherfucker to withstand and those withdrawals in that situation. I don't even know what I would of done. Probably something drastic and stupid.

[Griffin (OP)]

I appreciate that, it was definitely one of the hardest things I have ever done in my life. Luckily the cravings weren't bad because I knew there was nothing I could do to get anything. Usually the cravings are terrible and create anxiety and restlessness by themselves but a lot of that anxiety wasn't there. It was mentally and physically very hard to get through. I was lucky that I was able to talk to one person in my family for about 15 minutes almost every day after the first week that helped tremendously. It gave me motivation to get through it and I tried picturing it as the shittiest rehab ever. My brother was telling me that at least I don't have to worry about working, or any of that stuff but I like to work and I was homeless for 6 months after the first time I got arrested. Just knowing I had just lost everything all at once was very difficult. I was luckily able to find a place to live and a job after 2 weeks and was able to save enough money to get my car and stuff back after 2 months. My brother drove it up here for me when I could afford the gas. so even though every dream was about drugs and not being able to get high or about getting arrested the cravings weren't as bad as usual. It was definitely a hard lesson learned and hopefully someone will read it and not make the same mistakes I did. I had no idea I could get a dui for just methadone especially so long after taking it. But having anything in your system and failing the roadside sobriety test is grounds for a dui. I am very careful when driving but damn near have a panic attack anytime i see flashing lights or hear sirens. Thanks for the kind words everyone.



Griffin

[Opi-ette]

Wow Griffin, thanks for sharing your experience with us. Wow just wow. I was riveted while reading it.

Its a good reminder that not just alcohol will fail a DUI. And I only recently learned that if you have a scripted controlled substance, it has to be in the bottle you filled it in. I thought that if you have a legal prescription, then you are fine and no problem. Boy was I wrong.

How are you doing now? Work wise and getting through the DUI classes and all?

[Flutterby]

Wow, thanks for sharing your story!

I am wondering what you would have done differently?

I am on methadone for pain and if i ever get pulled over and they want to roadside test, can/should i refuse that, or just refuse a blood test? It seems like those roadside tests are designed to make you fail, like you said you couldn't do it after many many days non-medicated.

Thanks for the information!

[Griffin (OP)]

I'm doing good just have no money thanks for asking. I make half as much money at my job now but I make enough to pay for all my classes, fines, and bills. I've been back on methadone for 2 months and sense then things have gotten a lot better. When I was clean I was having trouble doing anything I was just depressed the whole time. Getting my case resolved helped with that too. I am back on my feet though I should be getting my license next week as long as I pass the written and driving test. The breathalyzer in my car is really annoying though. I failed a test last week and I don't know why the guy at the place that works for the breathalyzer company said it could of been from my work clothes. I passed about 5 minutes before and 2 minutes after I failed but if you fail you have to pay $75 to get it from locking you out and making it so you can't start your car. I can't eat before I drive or while I'm driving and I can't listen to music loudly cause the beep notifying me that I have to take a test when I'm driving isn't very loud. I have to take a test to get my car started, and about every 5-10 minutes while I'm driving. I should be able to get the breathalyzer out of my car after 4 months so thats cool.

They let me end my original probation unsuccessfully and my probation sentence for the dui is getting transferred at the moment so I haven't had to do any UAs for the last 2 week. I thought it was funny that I had been doing 4-5 UAs a month the whole time on probation then I got the DUI and drug charge and they dropped it to 2 UAs a month. They gave me till November next year to finish my 48 hours of community service so I've got plenty of time to get it done. I'm trying to get an appeal for financial aid approved so that I can go back and finish school. I got a zero for the class I withdrew from when I was in jail so it dropped my gpa under the limit for getting aid. So overall things are good I'm alive and I've got a car, a place to live, and a job so I can't complain. I will be a lot happier when I finish my probation and get off paper completely I've got 16 months left. They just passed a law saying people on probation can smoke weed so if I get another medical card and send it to my probation officer then I can smoke weed which would be kinda cool. I haven't smoked in 2 years but I would be denied getting take outs for smoking weed so I haven't decided if I want to.

flutterby to answer your question I don't drive when I am tired so my eyes don't look like I could be high or drunk. In Colorado where I live f you refuse the blood test or breathalyzer than your license will be suspended for a year even if you don't get charged with the dui. I didn't know this and they didn't tell me this while I was getting arrested they just asked if I wanted to do the blood test and I said yes because I thought I would get off because I only had methadone in my system and I thought it would show when I took it. They don't test the levels of everything in your system though so there is no way to prove you took it 30 minutes ago or 3 days ago. All this I found out while studying for my case, I had a public defender who had about 1000 other cases at the time because he represented 3 different counties and he wasn't that bright to begin with. I had to notify him that they couldn't charge me with the intent to distribute because I had less than 7 grams which is the amount you have to have according to the laws statute. I also make sure to put my lockbox in my trunk so its not out where they can ask about it and I would not admit to using methadone for any reason now. I didn't when I was getting arrested but did when I was getting a blood test but its good to know you shouldn't admit to anything and always say you have nothing in your system. Don't even admit to being tired because you can  get a dwai or reckless driving for driving tired and dwai's have the same penalties as a dui. There isn't much more I can do different besides being a lot more careful if a cop pulls behind me I usually just pull into the next place I can just so I don't get harassed I doubt that much of this is really good info but its what I do different now. I never really speed anyway but I am a lot more careful driving and make sure to do everything I can to not get pulled over I am somewhat paranoid about it.

The best thing to do is to do everything you can to make sure you aren't in a situation where you can get pulled over for a dui. That is one thing i don't like about my job because I sometimes don't get off until 11-12 at night and I hate driving at night now because they are more likely to pull people over for dui's at night. I was thinking about starting a class at my clinic to teach people how to pass the roadside test it is hard if you are someone like me who has bad balance to begin with but I think if people know whats coming and have practiced it before maybe it could stop these things from happening to other people. I'm sorry I don't have a better answer for you and pray that these things don't happen to anyone especially cpp's. When I was researching online it was very sad that a lot of the comments from people were saying that anyone who is on a narcotic should be arrested for driving even if they were taking it for pain. A guy I grew up with got a dui for subs about 2 years ago, so it is something that happens I don't want to make people paranoid but it is something everyone should be informed of because I had no idea that I could get charged with it until I was sitting in jail and I asked the guards to look it up on the internet for me because they didn't know either.



Griffin

[Flutterby]

Thanks so much for the info and your insight Griffin!

It really sucks what happened to you and I'm sorry that it did...you got a seriously raw deal. You have an amazing attitude about it, and I respect the way you are picking yourself up from it and moving forward.

I think starting a class at your clinic about roadside testing is an awesome way to help others. Wish i could come take it! 😄

[lawyerup]

Wow Griffin, thanks for sharing your experience with us. Wow just wow. I was riveted while reading it.

Its a good reminder that not just alcohol will fail a DUI. And I only recently learned that if you have a scripted controlled substance, it has to be in the bottle you filled it in. I thought that if you have a legal prescription, then you are fine and no problem. Boy was I wrong.

How are you doing now? Work wise and getting through the DUI classes and all?

can you explain what happened? I live with my mom who has all my meds in her purse in their bottles but i go to my dad's on weekends with a weeklyam/pm pill case thing and always worried i'll get pulled overon way to my dad'sand they'll pull us over and find mymeds.

[candy]

Griffin,
I am so sorry for the way you were treated in jail. My nephew went through something similar, kicking a heroin habit in jail.

Glad you were able to get back to your clinic and get on MMT.  All my best to you with this.

I have been on MMT for 10 years now at 30mgs. I am sure many people wonder why I don't detox off or just jump off at this rate, but I have other health problems and personal issues, so the thought of going through major withdrawals is not what I am ready for right now. I am not sure I am even ready to try going down a few mgs, a month and to be honest, what people think doesn't bother me anymore. I am too old to worry about what some young kid thinks. I would only hope that maybe they would garner the information that someone with my experience can share and use it to help themselves.

I see so many young people come in to the clinic I am at. It is so sad to see 18 year old kids getting on MMT. I am not discouraging MMT as an option, but when I have a 17 year old myself, I just cannot imagine being that young and having to make such a mature decision.

[Lolleedee]

I am so sorry for all that you have been through! You are stronger than I am...I would have cracked!!!

I hope all continues to improve and that you never have to be subject to such bullshit again!