The MMT clinic

[Lolleedee]

I am so sorry for all that you have been through! You are stronger than I am...I would have cracked!!!

I hope all continues to improve and that you never have to be subject to such bullshit again!

[Griffin (OP)]

Thanks everyone for such kind words, I definitely felt like cracking and just trying to jump off the top tier head first. I would be lying if I said that thought didn't come cross my mind i contemplated all kinds of suicide going through that hell. Luckily I have way to much stuff to live for and the guys in jail with me really put that into perspective when I made a joke about one of my suicidal thoughts. They basically told me how stupid it would be for me to even contemplate suicide just because I am sick from a drug and in jail, obviously it isn't quite that simple and the thoughts aren't even yours at that point your withdrawaling depressed conscious just kind of takes over to badger you with some mental wd. But it did really make me think that it would be stupid to give up everything in this wonderful world of ours. Sure theres enough shit to shake a stick at all day and not get bored but it makes all the badass stuff that much better. I really hope I never get arrested again I am over it at this point but atleast I can say that I have lived through one of the worst withdrawals imaginable... benzo withdrawal not included.

Candy I am hopefully coming to that point where I don't care what people say, my family was so happy that I was getting off methadone and would finally be clean and I still haven't told them I went back on it. Even though it had been 18 months sense I had done anything except methadone which I never thought was possible when I was using. I was never clean in there eyes while on methadone, and even though I only see them 2 or 3 times a year there opinion deeply effects me. The physical stuff in jail sucked but the never ending lethargic depression was awful I was past the 3 month point and still felt like I was in mild withdrawal. I was constantly sweating, yawning, runny nose, constant eye watering, no energy, no happiness, lots and lots of emotions and anxiety. I don't want that to put any one off of coming off methadone because I wasn't ready and was forced to with no taper so it probably dragged on because of that. I would go through it again to have the quality of life I have now and have had sense I got back on. I don't have any bad side effects from the methadone though so I am lucky and I hope that none pop up in the future. I am pretty sure I am the only person whose constipation went completely away once I switched to methadone and hasn't bothered me sense and for that alone I am very fortunate.

[Seven]

First and foremost "good james patterson books", no such thing!  Lol (im actually reading another one of his books right now since they are definately better than a bad book)

Id stay on a lower dose this time if you can.

I have had to kick cold turkey mdone and im so sorry you had to go through that hell.

One thing ive noticed (for me) that ive not heard others talk about is the relationship between a hard cold turkey detox and its affect on future abstinence.

When i ct'd from high doses of mdone or h i noticed that well after the standard wd and detox time, even though the drugs were out of my system, i still felt very out of it even months down the road.  On the converse, if i was at low doses or tapered i felt much more with it after the detox period.  The appetite, bm's, and energy still took awhile to regain but did so sooner and the biggest part was i didnt have what ive come to call "the swimming head sybdrom".  Which was terrible.

I hope the best for you and hope you do whats best for you, but ime personally i would definately recomend trying to stay on as low a mdone dose as possible.

[Griffin (OP)]

Just recently they have started a new policy at my clinic where the first 30 minutes of the dosing hours are for people who work in the early hours and are on the workers list, no one else can dose until the 30 minutes is up. My clinic is at capacity as far as how many patients they can have they wont allow anymore people to join the clinic right now and theres a 4 month waiting list for people who are pregnant or on probation who can only get on if someone drops out.

A lot of the workers dosing at the beginning of the dosing hours are abusing it. Anyone who has a job and likes to dose early can if they have a job and are on the list. Even if they don't work that day or there shift doesn't start until 5 in the afternoon they can dose in that first 30 minutes. On Saturdays the dosing hours are from 6:30-9:00 so people who don't work early or don't abuse the system like me can only dose from 7-9. On Saturdays everyone gets there Sunday take-out and there Saturday dose, so it takes longer. No matter what time I go in it has been a 30 minute wait. It is getting annoying and makes me want to abuse the system because I have a job and can abuse it.


Labor day is coming up and they have to give out 2 take-outs(one for Sunday and one for Labor Day which is Monday) on top of the Saturday dose this coming Saturday. So it will take even longer to dose by probably 10-15 minutes so everyone is looking at a 40-45 minute wait except the worker dosers. I like the idea of the system as long as it doesn't get abused. That way people who goto school and have work early can get there on time and don't have to worry about the off day where everybody comes in at 6 to dose and they have to wait 20 minutes instead of just getting there dose with-in 5 minutes when they need it for work so they will be able to be at work or school on time.

What ideas should the people bring up to management to get the system changed so that people who are abusing the system get taken off the list except on the days where they have work or have school early in the morning and need to use the system. What do you think can be changed so that the Saturday waiting times aren't so bad? I get my phase where I won't have to dose on Saturday at the end of this month but I still think the problem should be fixed. I think one idea would be for the people who are on the early workers dose list should have to prove they have work or school early on the certain day they need to use the system to be able to dose early instead of being able to use it everyday regardless because they are on the list. Maybe they should have to bring paper work in every week or 2 to prove this to keep them on that list for those days. Obviously people can fake these types of letters proving their need to be dosed early and they will still be able to abuse the system, but I think it would cut down on it a little. I am not sure of the specifics right now for the policy I don't know if it is anyone who can prove they work at an early time or work at all can dose early. I am going to get the policy specifications soon so I can see what I can do to help solve this problem so that everyone is happy and that wait times aren't as long for everyone. I think another idea would be to start dosing at 5:30 am on Saturdays instead of 6 so that it gives the non workers 2.5 hours of dosing time to get there dose and take out sense its the busiest day because everyone has to get a take-out and there are half as many hours to dose as regular weekdays.

On the weekdays the dosing hours are 5:30-11:30 and if you are in the door before 11:45 they will dose you, but if you are 3 seconds late your out of luck. There isn't much of a problem on weekdays, I think the longest I have to wait is 10 minutes and that is only if a lot of people happen to be there at the time I decide to go in. Most of the time on weekdays I am in and out in less than 5 minutes if just one or two people are there ahead of me. At the end of the month I get my first phase where I will no longer have to go in on Saturdays! Then one month from that point I will only have to come in Mon. Tues. Thurs. Friday. I gotta wait 2 months after getting that phase to get to be able to come in 3 days of my choice a week. Then 3 months after that I will get the glorious once a week phase then 3 months after that I get the Ultimate prize of coming in once every 2 weeks. Which is what phase I was on before I got arrested for my DUI and my counselor was more upset than I was that he couldn't let me back on that phase when I re-started but regulations can't be overturned on a case by case basis.

If anyone has any ideas I can bring to the management about solving this problem or making it so that everyone is a little happier I am interested in what you think would help.


Griffin

[Chip]

my clinic is rapid.

i can't remember the last i had to wait because they changed the staff to mostly asian people and it runs like clockwork.

even seeing the doctor is done in a timely fashion.

i do remember the bad old days of protracted dose waiting times, though

you have my sympathy, man.

may it get easier for you to dose.

[Anti-hero]

Id like the details of the ct kick in jail?
I can't only imagine in horrors what that was like!
Your brave brave soul to go back on after what had to be hell!!!

The kick I did in jail
It was one of the easier ones
Dope was not a option

So I just got on with life.
But Cook County jail.
They are pretty decent with the comfort meds.
It didn't work though cause
I was smoking crack as soon
As I could get to an atm.
If I wanted to I could have stayed clean.

[jmorri2nd]

Thank you for all the info.

[Griffin (OP)]

Hero1 I noticed that as well sense I knew that I had no chance of getting anything and had no idea when I was getting out it helped a lot with the anxiety. I usually feel a lot worse just because I know feeling better is just one phone call or text away. It got worse when I got out after a month but the cravings while inside weren't bad at all compared to being on the out side. The physical part of it was pure hell and agony. I was always freezing and sleeping on those metal bunks or laying there to read because sitting hurt my hips to bad was so painful.


I pray I never have to go through that again. I am thinking of moving back to my home state because if you are on MMT all jails and prisons are required to give you your methadone and its not a taper you get it as long as you want. That would be nice not to worry about sense I have been arrested twice I feel like if I get arrested again I will be going to prison. Jail and Prison would be so much easier if you had your methadone.



Griffin

[candy]

My partner and I have been discussing opening up a methadone clinic.
Wow, it is not easy.
Just the amount of malpractice insurance you need to have is insane.

I just see how my clinic is ran and I want to do something different.
I could not even wash my hands the last time I had to give a urine sample, the plumbing was fucked up and I am sure when I go back on Friday to pick up, it will still be the same way. The owner is like a slumlord. The clinic is disgusting and dirty.
My counselor has a black mark on her neck that keeps getting bigger. Looks to me like she is using that spot to hit.
She wears a sweater and the place is hot as hell, even at 5 a.m. Her pupils are pinned and her eyes bloodshot.

I have been around long enough to know that look that someone has when they are under the influence of opiates. My counselor has that look.
She is always late and I end up doing more counseling for her than she does for me. I know that isn't healthy, but I have to see her and I guess if I can offer her some advice and educate her on addiction, I am doing some good.

I am going to try and reduce my dose around the new year. Maybe start a slow detox and see how it goes.
I think the thing I just hate the most is the sweating. Being the only one in an air conditioned  room who is dripping sweat from your forehead is a bit embarrassing. Always seems to be some woman who will tell me how she used to sweat the same way when she went through menopause. I just smile and sweat some more!

The idea of a clinic is one I am going to keep playing around with.

[Z]

Is it common to have such a narrow dosing window at us clinics?  I could not dose and go to work, and that seems just crazy to me

I dose at my pharmacy, and they are open 14 hours a day, everyday but Sunday.  With my schedule (continental) I really have no choice.

[Griffin (OP)]

I am pretty sure most clinics have those kind of hours here in the US. Usually open at 5 or 6 and close around noon monday through friday and open 5 or 6 to 9 on saturdays. I haven't seen any that are open sundays. I dont know if the are any on the coast with different hours. I figured they would have to deal with bigger patient populations but I really don't know. I have to guest dose at a clinic in my home state of oklahoma for thanksgiving or christmas and its $25 a day which seems a little excessive to me shit I can get it cheaper on the streets.


Candy I can only imagine the amount of hassles and loops you would have to jump through to be able to open a clinic. There was a lot of people mad because a clinic opened up under 1000 ft away from a high school in Denver last year. There are no laws preventing that however a lot of people were mad. A clinic just lost a lot of money after they bought a place to open a clinic and then the city had so many people mad that it got brought to the city council and they voted against it. http://www.kktv.com/news/headlines/Fight-Over-Methadone-Clinic-Continues-321350251.html 

They company who is trying to open the clinic has to be pissed. They were told by the city that they can open one and they go and find a retail store and buy it. I am sure they have already invested over $100,000 to open it just to be told they can't open it now because its close to a park or some shit even though there are no laws preventing you from opening a clinic near schools or parks. It still got voted down because they don't want the addicts there to be able to have treatment. The people who are mad about it are saying they don't want drug addicts congregating near a park where they let there children play. I really hope they can find a new place and are reimbursed for there loss and that a clinic can be opened in that town.




Griffin

[Chip]

My partner and I have been discussing opening up a methadone clinic.
Wow, it is not easy.
Just the amount of malpractice insurance you need to have is insane.

I just see how my clinic is ran and I want to do something different.
I could not even wash my hands the last time I had to give a urine sample, the plumbing was fucked up and I am sure when I go back on Friday to pick up, it will still be the same way. The owner is like a slumlord. The clinic is disgusting and dirty.
My counselor has a black mark on her neck that keeps getting bigger. Looks to me like she is using that spot to hit.
She wears a sweater and the place is hot as hell, even at 5 a.m. Her pupils are pinned and her eyes bloodshot.

I have been around long enough to know that look that someone has when they are under the influence of opiates. My counselor has that look.
She is always late and I end up doing more counseling for her than she does for me. I know that isn't healthy, but I have to see her and I guess if I can offer her some advice and educate her on addiction, I am doing some good.

I am going to try and reduce my dose around the new year. Maybe start a slow detox and see how it goes.
I think the thing I just hate the most is the sweating. Being the only one in an air conditioned  room who is dripping sweat from your forehead is a bit embarrassing. Always seems to be some woman who will tell me how she used to sweat the same way when she went through menopause. I just smile and sweat some more!

The idea of a clinic is one I am going to keep playing around with.

I have thought about it too.

I think location is critical -- a profitable proposition, tho'

you'd run a fantastic clinic so give it more thought.

good on you.

[Pullmyhair.]

Just recently they have started a new policy at my clinic where the first 30 minutes of the dosing hours are for people who work in the early hours and are on the workers list, no one else can dose until the 30 minutes is up. My clinic is at capacity as far as how many patients they can have they wont allow anymore people to join the clinic right now and theres a 4 month waiting list for people who are pregnant or on probation who can only get on if someone drops out.

A lot of the workers dosing at the beginning of the dosing hours are abusing it. Anyone who has a job and likes to dose early can if they have a job and are on the list. Even if they don't work that day or there shift doesn't start until 5 in the afternoon they can dose in that first 30 minutes. On Saturdays the dosing hours are from 6:30-9:00 so people who don't work early or don't abuse the system like me can only dose from 7-9. On Saturdays everyone gets there Sunday take-out and there Saturday dose, so it takes longer. No matter what time I go in it has been a 30 minute wait. It is getting annoying and makes me want to abuse the system because I have a job and can abuse it.


Labor day is coming up and they have to give out 2 take-outs(one for Sunday and one for Labor Day which is Monday) on top of the Saturday dose this coming Saturday. So it will take even longer to dose by probably 10-15 minutes so everyone is looking at a 40-45 minute wait except the worker dosers. I like the idea of the system as long as it doesn't get abused. That way people who goto school and have work early can get there on time and don't have to worry about the off day where everybody comes in at 6 to dose and they have to wait 20 minutes instead of just getting there dose with-in 5 minutes when they need it for work so they will be able to be at work or school on time.

What ideas should the people bring up to management to get the system changed so that people who are abusing the system get taken off the list except on the days where they have work or have school early in the morning and need to use the system. What do you think can be changed so that the Saturday waiting times aren't so bad? I get my phase where I won't have to dose on Saturday at the end of this month but I still think the problem should be fixed. I think one idea would be for the people who are on the early workers dose list should have to prove they have work or school early on the certain day they need to use the system to be able to dose early instead of being able to use it everyday regardless because they are on the list. Maybe they should have to bring paper work in every week or 2 to prove this to keep them on that list for those days. Obviously people can fake these types of letters proving their need to be dosed early and they will still be able to abuse the system, but I think it would cut down on it a little. I am not sure of the specifics right now for the policy I don't know if it is anyone who can prove they work at an early time or work at all can dose early. I am going to get the policy specifications soon so I can see what I can do to help solve this problem so that everyone is happy and that wait times aren't as long for everyone. I think another idea would be to start dosing at 5:30 am on Saturdays instead of 6 so that it gives the non workers 2.5 hours of dosing time to get there dose and take out sense its the busiest day because everyone has to get a take-out and there are half as many hours to dose as regular weekdays.

On the weekdays the dosing hours are 5:30-11:30 and if you are in the door before 11:45 they will dose you, but if you are 3 seconds late your out of luck. There isn't much of a problem on weekdays, I think the longest I have to wait is 10 minutes and that is only if a lot of people happen to be there at the time I decide to go in. Most of the time on weekdays I am in and out in less than 5 minutes if just one or two people are there ahead of me. At the end of the month I get my first phase where I will no longer have to go in on Saturdays! Then one month from that point I will only have to come in Mon. Tues. Thurs. Friday. I gotta wait 2 months after getting that phase to get to be able to come in 3 days of my choice a week. Then 3 months after that I will get the glorious once a week phase then 3 months after that I get the Ultimate prize of coming in once every 2 weeks. Which is what phase I was on before I got arrested for my DUI and my counselor was more upset than I was that he couldn't let me back on that phase when I re-started but regulations can't be overturned on a case by case basis.

If anyone has any ideas I can bring to the management about solving this problem or making it so that everyone is a little happier I am interested in what you think would help.


Griffin

IMO, asking for everyone's schedules every week would be a logistical nightmare for the clinic, I can't imagine them wanting to deal with it. Personally, I think the early dosing for people who work is bullshit. The only fair way to do it is first come, first serve. They could put a ticket machine out front, or number the parking spaces, so people can come early and get their place in line (or people could not be assholes and be honest about when they got there). People who work's time isn't any more valuable than anyone else's, everybody has obligations, so the only fair way to do it is first come, first serve.

[monkawat]

The first 30 min are for "workers" only? That is a load of bullshit. How is blue collar/ gray collar worker's time anymore valuable than white collar or unemployed peoples' time?

A lot of people at my clinic show up right when they open early in the AM and they're disabled veterans who cannot work. Just because someone wants to come early doesn't necessarily mean they have to get to work. That means your clinic would say that a guy/lady who isn't disabled but has to get to work as a heavy machinery operator, courier, driver, etc. is more important than those who cannot work or cannot find work. What about those who can only get a ride in the early AM?

Your clinic is being unfair there. Has anything changed since you posted this in September griff?

[Smacky-Doodle 2.0]

They tried to do the 'employed clients go to the front of the queue' at the clinic here, but it didn't work out as planned.

People would just lie and say they had a job, the clinic even went so far as to give us gainfully employed types a blue ID card, so when you checked in, you would be placed at the front of the line. 

This really pissed A LOT of people off, people without jobs that were honest about it would sit for 30-45 minutes, watching those with blue cards waltz in and be called right away, but at certain hours people were walking in so frequently they wouldn't have a chance to get a white card called back to dose before another 2 or 3 blue cards would walk in and cut in the line.  It was kinda funny, although I'm sure not quite so much to them.

Now, the clinic split up the dosing hours.  They open from 5am to 11:30am or so, then reopen from like 1pm to 330pm or something similar.  This seems to work MUCH better, because the wait has been under 5 minutes for a few months now, and that is just really nice I'm telling you.  Nothing worse than sitting asshole to elbow in a waiting room full of people waiting to dose, some of which need to hit the shower.

It'll go on like this until one of the nurses quits, which happens frequently, then it'll be back to DMV like conditions.

[Griffin (OP)]

As far as I know it is still the policy. I will check tomorrow and let you guys know for sure. I stopped going in the morning because of the wait time and I am sleeping a lot better. I had my times they opened wrong so I came in 3 different times while they were doing working people only and had to wait 30-45 minutes. Also not having to go on Saturdays anymore has made it so I don't have to long of wait times. If I go around 1030 the longest I wait is about 10-15 minutes. I am usually in and out.

I understand both sides of it because usually if you get there when they open there is around 15 people waiting especially on Saturdays where everyone is getting a take out as well as their dose. I think it is a stupid policy though and to big of a hassle I am surprised it has lasted this long. They have to get everyones schedule weekly and then make sure they are on the list to dose in the first 30 minutes.

 I am glad that if no one is there they will let the people who aren't working that day dose early. However if someone does come in that is on the work list they get bumped up to the front. It caused a lot of friction the first few weeks when I was there to see it. It still could be but I haven't been early in a few weeks so I am not for sure. They have been changing a lot of policies lately. You can no longer cut through the parking lot or stay there if you have no reason to. You can no longer smoke on the premises either.

It is 2 buildings next to each other and there is like a dentist and a bunch of other offices in each building. The new policies make sense because they would have a ton of people outside hanging out, smoking, and selling shit. They probably had too many complaints so they had to enact them in fear of losing their office at that location. The security guard there is on a power trip and enforces all the policies which is understandable. If I owned the buildings and was trying to get new clients to setup shop there I would not want a bunch of people hanging out in front of the building.