Question about Dilaudid pills

[Objection (OP)]

Guess I'll start this section out with a HR question...

I've been reading up about people that IV dilaudid pills.  From everything I've read, the pills break down very easily in water and don't require heat.  Does 30 units of water per pill sound right?  And a question I haven't found answered... what happens if you use too much water?  Will the excess water do anything physically to you?  I can imagine not using enough water would make the shot way sludgy and not able to draw up, but what if there is an excess of liquid?  Especially if you're not using heat?

Next question... what are the equivalencies of pill vs IV?  As a CPP, I'm in the ER often getting IV dilaudid at a rate of 2mgs IV every hour.  If a 4mg pill is broken down in water, is that shot now the equivalency of a 4mg IV shot?  I've looked at some of the equivalency charts out there, but I don't know if they're comparing medical grade IV meds vs pills turned into IV meds.  Hopefully that make sense?

Like, 4mgs of pill dilaudid(made into IV solution) is equal to what mg medical grade IV dilaudid?

Thanks!!  (Like the new place!!  Hope it can stay relatively drama free!!)

[Narkotikon]

Excess water isn't going to hurt you.  Water / saline solution is perfectly natural and nontoxic to the body.  If there's a lot of excess water, it just means the shot won't be as concentrated.  I doubt that's going to happen though.  If you're only prepping 2 pills, just make sure both pills (in solution) fit into the rig.  It probably won't even fill the entire rig, which is fine.

Yes, they're the same equivalencies.  A 2mg pill is the same as a 2mg IV amount wise.  Both have the same amount of Dilaudid.  Since you're prepping two 2mg pills for an IV injection, it's safe to consider it a 4mg IV.  If you filter using cotton, you'll loose a tiny amount of hydromorphone, but not enough to consider it less than 4mg. 

Just prep the two 2mg pills, fit it into one rig, and consider it a 4mg hydromorphone IV.  Relax.  Enjoy. 

[Z]

I found the iv solutions to be stronger then broken down pills.

[Objection (OP)]

Awesome!!  Thanks for the replies.  Haven't decided if I'm going to go down the IV route or not yet.  I get 180ea 4mg pills each month, and orally they are worthless.  Sniffing they aren't much better.  So the script goes pretty fast.  And I'm curious about IV.  I've never done it, and everyone talks about this huge rush.  Also...I'm on methadone as my ER med, and at this point have about 2 months worth squirreled away, so if I go the IV route and catch a bad enough habit I have a safety net coming off of them.

I just know once I open that door, it's hard to close it again.

Last question.  The state I'm in does not require a prescription for buying needles.  Everything I've read, I'm asking for a 28ga, 1/2in, 1ml insulin needle? (Only prepping one pill at a time...)

[Tony]

Hello Objection,

I know you didn't ask if you should go the IV route or not, but you have it right what you said about the door....

You sound like a bright person. I think most older opiate users if asked would honestly say that if they could do it over, they would
have left that door unopened.

Good luck,

Tony

[Narkotikon]

I second the not going through that door option.  I can tell you're new to IV'ing b/c of your questions.  That's a good thing.  Yes, the rush is much better, but it's also a lot harder to stop.  Think really carefully before you do this.

Hydromorphone has a really low oral and intranasal bioavailability.  IV is the gold standard, but plugging is another solution.  The BA of plugging hydroM is much better than oral or nasal.  Have you considered doing that? 

How have you managed to save two months worth of methadone?  Do you have less pain somedays?  It's commendable that you've been able to do that.  Personally I dislike methadone, but it is a great pain med. 

Yes, 28g 1/2 in. 1cc insulin rigs will be fine.  If you've got smaller veins, you could also use 1cc 31g 6mm / 8mm insulin syringes.

[Chip]

cool. no such guage down here (27 or 29) x 1/2 ". what a decent size.

[Objection (OP)]

  Thanks for all the input, but what curious junky ever said no to trying IV if they're really curious.

So I got some 31ga needles. Was simple to get from pharmacy, didn't need an ID or script or anything. Followed all the HR steps in prepping it, and drew up 4mg. Was nervous, but on 2nd try managed to get blood in the backflow, so pushed shot in steadily.  Felt not a single thing. Waited about 15 minutes, and nothing. So prepped another 4mg.  Hit, steady push, still no rush.  Been about 15 minutes, and I feel a little buzz, but nothing major.

Figure my tolly must be too high. So going to wait a couple of hours and prep 8mg all at once and give it a shot.

Nark.. was able to store up extra 'done because Dr. pushed for me to go up on dose at one point, and I was stable and comfortable where I was.  So I just stockpile the extra pills.  Sure wish I lived near the TL, go out and sell them for even $8 a piece, I'd make some bank.

Thanks again for everyone's help!

[candy]

Hey Objection,
Yes, most of us have gone down that road of injecting and as Nark and Tony pointed out, once you go down that road it can be hard to stop.
Injecting itself can be addicting. The process of getting your drugs ready can be a rush itself.
It was for me and as much as I hate to admit it, I sometimes will use a needle to try and hit a vein.
After 10 years of not injecting, I am getting a few veins back and once I saw them, I just could not resist.

My son is on growth hormones and uses insulin syringes, so they are in the house.

Sorry to get off topic, but maybe plugging the Dilaudid is a better option than injecting.
Whatever you decide, just be careful. And it might be best not to talk about selling your Methadone online.

[Narkotikon]

Candy is definitely correct when she said people can get addicted to IV'ing in general, or in prepping their drugs.  Some people get needle fever and will inject plain water when they're out of drugs just to satisfy their needle fix.  The ritual of doing drugs, with all the accoutrements, can provide pleasure.

Like you said, I'm guessing your tolerance is too high.  What dose of methadone are you on?  If it's high enough, it could also be blocking the effects of the Dilaudid, if only partially. 

Your doctor sounds amicable to your condition.  Few doctors urge a patient to increase their meds if they're stable on their current dose.  Did they know that?  I'm guessing not.  It's great you're able to save and have a safety net though.

[Tainted]

im late on this thread, but your not going to get a rush from diluadid unless your dopesick. if you've been taking them orally all day and aren't dopesick, your really not going to get much of a rush from it. when i shoot them, i only get a rush the first shot of the day, everything after that i get the tiniest hint of a rush if i wait long enough, but thats it.

and the ppl saying 4mg = 4mg IV , i dont think thats true AT ALL, im certain it's not. when you do a 4 mg pill, there is still enough drug left in the cap for a cotton shot that will give you a rush/get you well. with that said, ive done liquid diluadid i got out of a hospital (4mg/1 ml) and 4mg felt stronger than an 8mg tablet, at the very least, felt roughly the same.

[JonWrong]

I was on the same CPP meds you are on for 10 years. Methadone as an ER med and Dilaudid as a break through med. Dilaudid is absolutely close to worthless as a pill swallowed or snorted but can be very effective in large doses (i have a MAJOR tolly) when I would do 16-32 mg plugged. WHen I IV'd them which I did for 7 years of that time it was ALL down hill and messed my life up pretty bad. Dilaudid is like the crack cocaine of opiates. One of the BEST opiate rushes out there (when NOTHING else is in your system) but it has no legs. Fat rush for 45 seconds...feel good for 10 min and then you want another. But then there is the problem, no matter how much more you do you will NOT get that rush again unless you wait 4+ hours to inject again.

What i think happened to you is the methadone your on. Methadone will absolutely make getting a rush off of dilaudid almost impossible. Dilaudid is best served as said before above me as the first shot of the day or when your nearing dope sick. And if your on a high dose of methadone you might need 48hrs or more completely off a low dose of done to feel a shot IV and it is going to need to be at least 8mg cause of your tolly from the done. Id need 16-32mg. It's such a tricky drug too because you can't do 4mg decide that it wasn't enough and do 24mg and get a rush. Even that little 4mg shot starts over the 4 hour wait before the rush works again.

How much Done are you on? I was given 240 Methadone 10s a month and 240 Dilaudid 8mgs. The ONLY way I could enjoy the Dilaudid was to not take ANY methadone (i was on 80mg a day for CP) for the first 2 weeks of the month. Id only shoot Dilaudid... then when I ran out of my D's id use the Methadone RX to keep me outta pain and off of dopesick til I saw my Dr again and then rinse and repeat. Eventually it led me down a road to hell though as most IV users will tell you.

Also I find the hospital liquid Dilaudid atleast 2x as strong with more legs as the pills and I have a lot of experience. You gotta expect your losing Dilaudid when breaking down a pill and filtering it if you can get a cotton shot later that gives you another rush. Just my 2 cents from someone who was in your same position! I had so much Dilaudid saved up because i thought it was worthless till the day I IV'd them. Then I lost 5 years of my life because i was getting such crazy amounts for $10 a month.

[DeadCat]

yesterday  had some)nor) surely and because I an taming buprerenoprhine I explained to the sureon that the pain relief I wuould need something strong enough to overcome the buprenorphine.

She understood and wrote a script for#40  4MG Dilaudid whixh is probably enought to control the pain. The PORBLEM is all the local pharmacies only seem to carry MALLINCRODT brand, which in my experience just SUCK for IV or IM use. They don't fully dissolve in water or draw clearly.

My local Walreens has said they will orer brand name (purdue) for me an if they get then insurance won't cover then and my cost wil be $142 (US). That's not the issue, th issseu is quality. I want that nic yellow intant dissolcve clear yellow liquid that gives that nice hydromorphone rush right away.

So seeing how Purdue is ulikely available and Malindkrodt is bottom of the barrel, are there any other brands of generics that are passable? And, anybody know how to find brandneame hydromorphone about as good as the brand name?

I'm not in real pain but I'll be damned to waste this 'script on cut-rate generics. And yes I have been to 2 hospital pharmacies looking for the good shit.



Advice?

[corlene]

I've never had any trouble with any generic hydromorphone pills. Why do you say the mallys aren't so good? There are others who make hydromorphone pills, and if your pharmacist is willing to order the brand name, he surely can order a different generic.

I would say for myself anyway, that the Purdue formulation is not very different.

[corlene]

Sorry I was in bed this morning I just looked at my hydromorphone bottle and it is made by lannett pharma