Methadone Detox / Taper Regimen

[lawyerup]

grats bro, im really hoping im not writing the same thing a year from now. my doctor said a couple days ago he wants me off all opiates eventually. I was at 40mg methadone few months ago now I'm down to 25 and Im really feeling it.

[Dopeless Hopefiend]

That's so awesome @chipper! I know this has been a really long process for you with a lot of ups and downs. Good on you for sticking it out to the end.

[gnossos]

After realizing I'd been going to the clinic for almost 2 years now - and getting sick and fucking tired of paying the equivalent of rent for another apartment to the clinic each month - I'm ready to wriggle my way outta methadone's clutches myself. The fact that my husband and I are in this together is a big help. He tried to do things their way this time and work with the counselors/staff at the clinic, but after getting fucked around for the stupidest shit (obviously just trying to keep him on it longer - those methadone clinics sure hate to lose money, erm, I mean patients - he quit the clinic on 20mg and has been weening himself off with my weekly take home.

I know the worst symptom for him so far seems to be the restless legs, the tossing and turning at night. Anyone know of anything that helps that? Luckily I've got a script for Xanax so those are nice to take the edge off.

[gnossos]

If I had known what being on methadone would be like, I would've never started it. My hubby's a software engineer with a $100,000/yr salary, so after we got together I suddenly had access to the finances to support the most severe habit I've ever had. We laid in bed miserably dope sick for about a month, barely getting by on morphine and splitting single points, before we realized we could go to the methadone clinic.

My hubby had previous experience with methadone; he'd been on it for about 4 years last time. I feel lucky I had someone with experience for advice, because if it weren't for him I'm sure I gladly would've let the clinic work me up to the highest possible dose of 120mg or whatever it is. They're more than happy to increase your dose as much as you want, but they sure as fuck will never ask you if you wanna go down. Anyway, I'm SO glad he warned me not to let them increase my dose too high. Even after going in there with the worst dope habit I've ever had - (at least a gram/day on average, 8balls on worst days) - I still never really needed more than 40mg or so. Highest I ever went was 70mg. I can't imagine trying to taper off 120mg or more.

I really think there should be more guidelines in place for methadone clinics. It's insane that there's nothing preventing someone who just wants access to insanely high doses of methadone to just pop a Lortab, get admitted to a methadone clinic, and then proceed to go up and up to the maximum dose. The staff/counselors at those places are like methadone evangelists.

[OpiXPO]

I know the worst symptom for him so far seems to be the restless legs, the tossing and turning at night. Anyone know of anything that helps that? Luckily I've got a script for Xanax so those are nice to take the edge off.

I've found Clonidine and Baclofen to a lesser extent help with RLS amazingly. Avoid nicotine and antihistamines such as Actifed, Sudafed and Benadryl. They are actually stimulants that have sedation properties somehow.

Also hot showers, cool bedroom when your trying to sleep, orgasms, stretching, lying on your stomach. Yoga breathing also helps, breath in for 4 counts, hold for 3 counts, and exhale for 5 counts.

As for supplments; Alteril, magnesium, potassium, multi-vitamins in the morning.

[Lolleedee]

After realizing I'd been going to the clinic for almost 2 years now - and getting sick and fucking tired of paying the equivalent of rent for another apartment to the clinic each month - I'm ready to wriggle my way outta methadone's clutches myself. The fact that my husband and I are in this together is a big help. He tried to do things their way this time and work with the counselors/staff at the clinic, but after getting fucked around for the stupidest shit (obviously just trying to keep him on it longer - those methadone clinics sure hate to lose money, erm, I mean patients - he quit the clinic on 20mg and has been weening himself off with my weekly take home.

I know the worst symptom for him so far seems to be the restless legs, the tossing and turning at night. Anyone know of anything that helps that? Luckily I've got a script for Xanax so those are nice to take the edge off.

What kind of shit were they doing to your hubby?  I know it sucks to get jammed up by them, but they aren't doing it to keep you there.  Believe me, there are tons of jumkies waiting to jump into your space at the clinic.  This country is in no way hurting for junkies needing treatment!

I don't know why people get so hung up on doses.  It is a complete lie that a higher dose is harder to come off of.  If you do it right, it will take LONGER, but it won't be any more difficult.  If you wean slowly, like they tell you too, it is virtually painless.

I think the reason a lot of people aren't successful with methadone is because they stay too low.  It's so counterproductive to do that.  If you are going to commit to treatment, and pay for it, then you should be at a dose that is comfortable and does what it is supposed to do...keep you out of withdrawal for at least 24 hours (36 is even better) and takes away the cravings and creates cross-tolerance (what is colloquially called a "blocking dose").  If you take a dose that doesn't do that, then not only are you not getting the full benefit of the medicine, but you are just fucking up your potential recovery.

All the stigma shit I hear about methadone and clinics, unfortunately comes from people who are on it and repeat all the assinine shit they hear while waiting in line.  If "I hear it's trading one addiction for another" (uh, you're already an opiate addict..this ain't a new addiction!), "It makes your teeth fall out" (I'm an RDH-Registered Dental Hygienist..it isn't true..if you want to know the actual science behind it, I'll start a dental thread) or my personal favorite "it gets in your bones" (obviously these people do not have basic knowledge of how the human body works).

Sorry..went off on a tangent there!  It just creams my corn when all this stuff gets thrown out there as fact.  Is methadone treatment perfect?  Hell no!  But I find that the parts of it people hate are based on one of two things...incorrect information that makes them think it is the devil incarnate or they feel the clinic dicks them around but fails to see their part in it.

[Chip (OP)]

I left the clinic at around 10 mg and had stockpiled 300 mg to get me through.

the whole taper took so long (2 years) that I did not suffer much. the amount you start at doesn't really matter much as the struggle only happens at the thin end.

what really worked for me was that I decided that injecting was no longer an option for me so I was kind of forced into opiate sobriety.

I still miss them but all I have to do I recall the misery of withdrawal and then I stop being sentimental.

you have really got to be sick of the whole trip before you can effect change like I did.

I still like drugs but prefer to mess with Stims and GABAgerics now - with extreme caution though.

the point I want to make is that coming off opiates doesn't change you in any way - you still have the same issues and desires you always did.

not going to the clinic is a definite bonus because I can accept work without all that hassle.

[Tainted]

it seems ppls experience can REALLY vary based on the clinic your going to. I always heard terrible things about methadone, had a habit for almost ten years before i decided to give it a try and it was shitty. place only open 4 hours a day, cost $150 a week, no take homes if you smoke weed, get put on a hold at least once a week and get stuck there for an hour for bullshit.

but i moved and goto a clinic in a diff state now and its looking like i may finally have broken  the spell opiates had on me. but this clinic is open 530am to 330pm, its sliding scale payment (im paying $25/wk, most ppl its free though) the clinic is non-profit which i think is a major major difference. and i get take homes cause they dont test for pot.  they give out bus passes and food too. its night and day the difference between the two clinics ive been to

[Chip (OP)]

Just an update - still off opiates but now tapering from Clonazepam with Diazepam.

That's another taper that I don't want to go through again.

I want to be totally drug independent now as I am too old for this shit.

[Tainted]

Just an update - still off opiates but now tapering from Clonazepam with Diazepam.

That's another taper that I don't want to go through again.

I want to be totally drug independent now as I am too old for this shit.

Congrats man that's awesome. I just got an email about a post, haven't been on this forum since prolly my post above yours. I've been "clean" on methadone since that post. Started weaning myself down, but I got below 40 and started getting chest pain, checked my BP and it was 200/120. Every time I dropped my dose a few mg I'd get chest pain and blood pressure spikes off and on for a week or so. Decided to chill until I see a cardiologist cardiologist. But I hear you on wanting to be drug independent. I'm 33 and know if I don't get off my pharmaceutical tether soon, I never will.

I need to check into this forum more often. With all the fent out there, I've been losing at least one friend every month to overdoses (I try not to hang out with ppl still using but have plenty of old friends I knew for years)

Is clonazepam really that hard to get off of for you? I've had other friends have issues with it, but it's the only benzo that only gives me mild wd. I've come off it three times, normally around 3-6mg a day and I would just drop my dose straight to half a mg at night for a few weeks then I'd stop taking it. I'd get at most 4-5 restless nights and major rebound anxiety, but nothing really serious.
Now the times that I was coprescribed 1mg of Xanax alongside 2mg clonazepam, my hands would shake and I actually had to wean down a little slowly.

[Chip (OP)]

Hi @Tainted ! Glad to see you back, very much so.

Is clonazepam really that hard to get off of for you? I've had other friends have issues with it, but it's the only benzo that only gives me mild wd. I've come off it three times, normally around 3-6mg a day and I would just drop my dose straight to half a mg at night for a few weeks then I'd stop taking it. I'd get at most 4-5 restless nights and major rebound anxiety, but nothing really serious.
Now the times that I was coprescribed 1mg of Xanax alongside 2mg clonazepam, my hands would shake and I actually had to wean down a little slowly.

I have been taking it for over 2 years so that's why I am tapering slowly.

How long were/are you using benzos before coming off them?

[Tainted]

Hi @Tainted ! Glad to see you back, very much so.

Is clonazepam really that hard to get off of for you? I've had other friends have issues with it, but it's the only benzo that only gives me mild wd. I've come off it three times, normally around 3-6mg a day and I would just drop my dose straight to half a mg at night for a few weeks then I'd stop taking it. I'd get at most 4-5 restless nights and major rebound anxiety, but nothing really serious.
Now the times that I was coprescribed 1mg of Xanax alongside 2mg clonazepam, my hands would shake and I actually had to wean down a little slowly.

I have been taking it for over 2 years so that's why I am tapering slowly.

How long were/are you using benzos before coming off them?

Glad to see this website is still up and running with you at the helm. Hope there's still a lot of people from the old days around.

I've been prescribed them on and off for like 13 years, but normally I'd only be on them for a year to 18 months before I moved and needed to find a new doctor, so less time for sure. I also had a tendency to take really high doses the first two weeks I had my script and then take smaller doses the last two, so my dose has never been very consistent, which may account for why I've had less trouble. It's just odd that if I take any other benzo like I do kpins, I get withdrawal very quickly after a steady low dose, just doesn't happen like that with clonazepam for me though.

[Chip (OP)]

so you never really took them daily ?

I am worried about PAWS - see the ASTON info at http://www.benzo-case-japan.com/ashton-manual-8-english.php#top for more info.

[Tainted]

so you never really took them daily ?

I am worried about PAWS - see the ASTON info at http://www.benzo-case-japan.com/ashton-manual-8-english.php#top for more info.

Oh no, I definitely took them every day, just my dosing was inconsistent. So the first two weeks I may take 6mg a day then the last two weeks I'd take 1mg at most every night.

[Chip (OP)]

Well that gives me hope !

I am now down to 6 mg a day of Diazepam, dropping down by 1 mg per week.

I need to get my sleep back as I have been drinking too.

I am trying to keep the alcohol down to a minimum though.

Did you know that 1 mg of Clonaz is equal to about 20 mg of Diaz ? K-pins are the strongest benzo i believe ...

Are you still taking benzos ?

EDIT: Tainted has not used them for over a year.

[g]

@Chip - congratulations on the methadone taper - I just wanted to offer you a tip on somethings you can do to help with your tapering and once you're completely off it. first, get your general practitioner/psychiatrist to rx you some ropinirole and/or clonidine however, don't let them sucker you into rx'ing you hydroxyzine, it has zero effects and that's what I've witnessed myself and from so many others.

I've done it all, I've tapered off methadone, buprenorphine, and a plethora of benzodiazepines (BZD.) I recently checked into detox back in July because I was taking 10x2mg alprazolam and shooting 1.5-2 grams of fentanyl daily.  my psychiatrist was dumbfounded how I was still alive and not to mention hadn't overdosed either.  anyway, if you have any questions, I'd be happy to help - I did see another post of yours about a BZD tapering regime also, so if you'd like some tips from a veteran I'm here.

again, congrats on everything you're doing and best wishes,
g.