Fentanyl To Bupe Faster?

[LadyH (OP)]

Ok so, the H I've been getting is most likely fentanyl. I know this because I've been using for 10 years and in my experience, I believe that it is all fent or mostly fent. It is almost clear in the syringe, the high doesn't last long at all, my tolerance has gone up extremely quickly, etc. It is a nice rush but it just doesn't last and I get sick so quickly it is not worth it. I've been spending 320-600 dollars every day. I split everything with my boyfriend. I pay for it all though. I can't stand it. I am so sick of paying for mine and his habit. I am not rich. I live in my parents' basement. But I've been escorting for a few months now and the influx of cash has caused me to spend more on H. But I don't have clients every day and I just can't keep this up. It's too much. So, I've been wondering... I want to go back on bupe but I get so sick way before the 24 hours is even close. I made it to 4 pm today before caving. But I split 4 grams yesterday with my bf and I just can't do this anymore. I know that I need to wait at least 20 hours for myself or I will get precipitated withdrawals. But I'm just wondering if one is able to take suboxone sooner if they have been doing fent.? Thanks lovelies.

[Hooman]

Yes - you can use it a lot sooner if it's an opiate with a short half-life like Fentanyl.

[traplord69]

Yea in my experience you can you use bupe as soon as the withdrawals start to become moderate.  I actually use it as soon as I start to notice any wd's and have never gone into precipitated wd, although everyone is different.  One thing I would highly caution against is shooting the bupe, that is where things can get really hairy.  I've seen it happen to people a few times where once they are feeling pretty bad wd's went ahead and shot some bupe and had terrible precipitated wd's.  Sublingual is definitely the way to go imo if you've had full agonists (h, fent, or whatever) in your system within the past few days. 

[Hooman]

*Shooting* Bupe? *Eugh!*

Especially if there's any chance of their still being opiates in your system, as you say... o_0

[Z]

There's a way to get on bupe painlessly by taking very small amounts for a few days and then doing an induction.  You get some on your receptors and precipitated hell isn't a worry.  Its called microdosing often.


You should definitely take care of yourself in this.  Your boyfriend should contribute more.  I don't want to judge, but I would feel off of my girl was escorting to pay for my habit.  Not the escort part mind you, but thé paying for my habit combination.


If it isnt enjoyable and you're spending that much I would definitely do maintenance.  I was in a vaguely similar circumstance and methadone has helped me turn things around and find some joy in everything again.  Let us know what happens please.

[dillydudeEL14]

FWIW the first time I went to rehab for iv dilaudid I had used at like 10 in the morning of my first day in and they gave me subutex around I wanna say like 7pm and I was fine. I had just barely started to ge sick. Yawning was basically my only physical symptom. I was scared of precipitated withdrawal but it didn’t happen. Take this with a grain of salt tho cuz everyone’s different.  But yeah if you’re definitely sick you can take sub with no problem.

What needs to be stressed tho is it needs to be based on the symptoms not the time. The longer you wait the better and more sure you are to be safe but if you know you are sick based on symptoms you will be fine. I have taken subutex a few times (shot it lol I know it’s dumb but I actually kinda liked it I’m not recommending it tho) out of rehab at times when I was just starting to get sick and I didn’t have any problems. That’s just me tho.

[traplord69]

*Shooting* Bupe? *Eugh!*

Especially if there's any chance of their still being opiates in your system, as you say... o_0

Yup that's what I said 

[Indy]

Everyone really is different with this, I could never seem to not get at least some PWD, even if I was yawning, watery eyes, achey etc... Probably because it was from PST to bupe. I have a friend who never gets it, as long as he isn't high he can switch to bupe no problem.

It seems silly to shoot bupe but if you look at the bioavailability it makes perfect sense just economically, and I guess some people do get some sort of high off it, even though I never did. Definitely agree that IF you have to shoot bupe, do NOT do it until you're already stabilised on the bupe (btw the one way I could switch from PST to bupe without PWD was if I was already on bupe, took a break from it to try and get high off PST for a couple days, then went back to bupe- as long as there's still SOME bupe in your system still, you GENERALLY won't get PWD. Still be careful though).

I say that because precipitated withdrawal caused by a shot is one of the worst things you could imagine. Like shooting "pure, unadulterated fear" as someone once put it, you instantly feel as cold as ice and have hot flashes, then your skin starts pouring sweat, you can feel the air on your skin and it feels so disgusting you can't help but shudder. Your spine and legs and feet hurt IMMENSELY, a great pressure builds in the gut, your pupils dilate so much it hurts, your legs become so restless that even standing and pacing doesn't relieve it, and that restlessness spreads into the pectoral muscles so that you must move your arms as well, again to no effect... Just take all the symptoms you experience throughout a kick and cram it into an hour or two, then multiply them by ten. My only hope to get through it was to wait it out in the shower, hiding from everything because even just being around any other person was unbearable and anxious, just the most antisocial feeling you could experience.

The one mercy is that it doesn't last very long, especially if you at least waited 8-12 hours or so before the bupe. For me within an hour it started fading, and after say, 75 minutes, I wasn't really in withdrawal per se, achey and exhausted but unable to sleep, but able to lie still and let the lingering malaise fade. The funny thing was, compared to how I felt during the worst of it, feeling JUST achy and exhausted felt like amazing relief, when on a normal day feeling like that would be considered a bad day.

Of course the best advice would be to simply never shoot subs, and I never did end up doing it again, but most importantly make DAMN SURE you're already stabilised on it if you do.

It's also probably worth mentioning that all of this has nothing to do with the Naloxone in subs, it's entirely the buprenorphine that causes precipitated withdrawal, so don't think that if you have subutex you can get away with not waiting until you're in withdrawal to take it, or you'll be in for a WORLD of hurt.

Oh one more thing, if you DO get PWD, a dose or two of your preferred full agonist will help a LOT, and while, again, everyone is different, in my experience it didn't spoil the induction process, by that I mean it won't just start the process over again. In fact some people swear by inducting that way: wait as long as they can, but not quite long enough, get PWD, then do a shot of dope or whatever to chase off the PWD, and by the time the dope wears off, another little bit of sub won't precipitate withdrawal, or if it does, only very slightly.

[Hooman]

...precipitated withdrawal caused by a shot is one of the worst things you could imagine. Like shooting "pure, unadulterated fear" as someone once put it...The one mercy is that it doesn't last very long, especially if you at least waited 8-12 hours or so before the bupe. For me within an hour it started fading, and after say, 75 minutes, I wasn't really in withdrawal per se, achy and exhausted but unable to sleep, but able to lie still and let the lingering malaise fade...

That, IMO, is a very good description of what the pleasures of precipitated opiate withdrawal is like to experience. I have never had this happen to myself due to Buprenorphine or whatever, but I did have the pleasure of experiencing a UROD (Ultra-Rapid Opiate Detox) some years back.

The first day you arrive, nothing much happens, just like orientation and meeting the people there etc., and then on your second day at the facility, if you're lucky you might be given some milligrams of Diazepam in the AM along with some Clonidine (after they take your BP etc.) - they gave me 30-40mg IIRC - I explained to them that, while I wasn't a benzo user per se, that I did know that I had a high tolerance to them from the few occasions that I had taken them in my life.

Then, they give you an IV injection of Naloxone while a nurse sits with you while you lie there and experience what has to be one of the maddest feelings in your life for around 1-2 hours or so. A bit like an 'anti-rush'.

You rattle like fuck in the bed for an hour or so, and then you get to spend the rest of the day in a kind of weak, fugue-like state - it's not actually *that* bad, what with the Clonidine etc. - I found it helped me a lot. Lofexidine was absolutely *rubbish* IME.

Then on the second day and from then on, they give you an IM injection of Naloxone which works the same, just comes on slower, and they do this until you stop having a reaction to the injections - then they give you one more than what's required for that, and then you have officially completed the physical portion of your rehabilition.

[dillydudeEL14]

I have only shot subs like 3 times and I guess I got lucky on those occasions since I didn’t wait that long. Definitely will think twice before doing it again.