Quick story/question

[wanderingmind (OP)]

A friend has been hooking me up with anywhere from 10-20 2mg lorazepams for a couple months.  The last few times she's wanted me to pay her some cash for them (I'm still getting them really cheap).

Anyways, for a few months they worked very well.  In other words, the did what they did.  12-16 mg's would get me feeling really good.  Any more than that would be black out central which usually happened due to my compulsion to take more and more of any type of benzo.

Last week she got her new script.  I got 13 of them.  After ingesting 20 mg's and waiting an hour or two, I could feel some bit of relief, though mostly placebo.  I took the rest and bringing to total to nearly 30 mg's.  Nothing much to report.  I'd say it scored a 2 out of 10 on a scale (1 being baseline and 10 being black-ed out fucked).

Today, I got 15 from her and took all 15, so 30 mg's.  About 45 minutes in, some relaxation a bit of sedation, but that quickly went away. 

My benzo tolerance is inherently high (i.e., I need to take more than the average person to feel the same effects).  I have not been taking many benzo's lately.  Just her lorazepams maybe once or twice a month and it's been a GOOD month since I've taken any.

My question is this: is it possible the pharmacy had an old bottle and the lorazepam had degraded?  I recommended she contact her doctor and say that the Attivan had been working, but this script just seems off.

What do you all think?

[Snoop]

Lorazepam is IMO kinda low on the Benzo efficiency scale. This varies from person to person. Given IV it's great. Has a good half life on it. Half a day if I remember right (12hrs).

Do you drink often..... I've never really mentioned this here. But I scarcely EVER drink alcohol. But when I do, I find that alcohol has reduced effect on me. As if there is a cross tolerance between Alcohol and Benzo. I'm sure there must be. But I'm Benzo dependent.

Once dependent, your all in.... and you're basically keeping 'that feeling' away, and trying to stay ahead of it.

My advice. Lower your doses. You're poppin em like jujubees. And you wonder why they ain't working no more?

[bignasty]

I agree with Snoop. You're eating too many and too often to expect them to keep working good. Take a little break from them and they should work.....unless you're a big drinker.

I used to drink at least a 5th of whiskey a day and the FIRST benzo I ever took was 20mg's of valium and it didn't do much at all. I think it was because of my massive alcohol tolerance at the time because I was completely benzo naïve but 2 blue valiums didn't do shit for my anxiety.

[OpiXPO]

Did the generics change? There are some seriously shitty generics that don't do crap.

[Opus]

Erm, your doses are *huge* -- I suspect it's a diminishing return kinda deal, ativan/lorazepam is usually dosed like a mg or two, not 10-20. Personally when I've had huge benzo habits, I didn't feel much from huge doses either, not to say I wasn't getting loaded tho -- I just didn't really notice it. They tell me it's called a tolerance.

[Snoop]

Whenever I'm absolutely loaded on benzodiazepines, I'll swear by Christ that I'm perfectly fine, and my behavior is completely in line....

When often in retrospect, I was all over the Goddamned place.

It's as if I'm in a crystal clear head, cool and calm as can be, but my outward behavior is that of the Village Drunk/Idiot (take your pick).

I'd like to believe that it's dope doing me in.... but in fact, it's the shit I get from a doctor on a slip. She just keeps on signing off for me. I can't foresee a life without the fucking bastards.

Not without a butt load of solitude and time. Neither of which I possess.

[Dog Food]

People usually don't realize that benzos are basically just alcohol in a pill, that they affect your body just about the exact same way that alcohol affects you. That's why they give valium to alcoholics and benzo addicts in detox to taper off a lil bit.

Them doses are huge tho. You're not in withdrawals when u don't have any? Says twice as strong as alprazolam, which even 1mg used to fuck me up with no tolly. 2mg is blackout for sure.

But just like everything else, we use too much and it stops working almost completely.  Like dope doesn't do shit really but make me well and feel normal anymore. I quit for a week+ and half a point od's me

[Thoms]

Ativan is half the strength of xanax/kpin. Not double.

[Snoop]

..... Not even close to 2x's

Not. Even. Close.

[Raine]

Whenever I'm absolutely loaded on benzodiazepines, I'll swear by Christ that I'm perfectly fine, and my behavior is completely in line....

When often in retrospect, I was all over the Goddamned place.

It's as if I'm in a crystal clear head, cool and calm as can be, but my outward behavior is that of the Village Drunk/Idiot (take your pick).

Yeah I'm exactly the same. I wouldn't have known I was acting that wasted unless other people told me...repeatedly and emphatically. Heh.

[wanderingmind (OP)]

Whenever I'm absolutely loaded on benzodiazepines, I'll swear by Christ that I'm perfectly fine, and my behavior is completely in line....

When often in retrospect, I was all over the Goddamned place.

I think your description fits 100%!!!

I thought I hadn't visited this forum in a good while and came on here to post a question about benzo's.  Low and behold, I'd apparently posted on here less than two weeks ago.  From what I can infer, even though I said that the 30 mg's only scored a "2 out of 10"...I was blacked the fuck out   This doesn't surprise me in the least.  Here's why.

In 2009, I got on methadone.  Before then, I'd never tried benzo's.  At the clinic, it seemed like everyone was abusing benzo's and had a LOT of good things to say about the combo (benzo + methadone = pure bliss).  I tried them and fell in love.  There was a good year period where I would take my daily 150 mg's of methadone and then pop 14 mg's of xanax.  I'd be nodded out all day, then pop more xanax in the late afternoon.  It got so bad I ended up having a seizure when I tried to taper off/quit the benzo's.  After that period, I quit the benzo's for a couple years and then started fucking around with them.  And did that for another year or so.

I must have done something permanent to my brain chemistry during this phase as I found it's nearly impossible for me to get good and fucked up on benzo's without blacking out.  For example, it takes me about 6 mg's of xanax (when "benzo naive") to feel really good.  However, that's also right around the same dosage where I could black out or I might stay lucid - it's a total flip of the coin.  This RARELY ever happens as I turn into a complete fucking fiend once my body gets benzo's in it.  I'll swear that it'll only be 6 mg's and I will end up coming to a few days later to find I'd taken a ridiculous amount.  Back when I was on MMT, I was prescribed 90 2 mg xanax each month.  Many times I'd tell myself, "you're only going to take 3 today."  I'd come to 3 days later to find I'd ingested the entire bottle in 24 hours!  I once found a video I'd taken of myself where I say something along the lines of, "I've just taken 80 mg's of alprazolam and I am somewhat coherent." 

I came on here today to ask a question.  For the last 4 months or so, I've been using a "high dose" of benzo's once or twice at the most a month.  Never more than twice.  A few days after taking the high dose, I notice that I've got mild-moderate benzo withdrawal symptoms that really mimic opioid w/d more than straight benzo w/d.  I've personally never heard of taking something one time and then experiencing withdrawal for three days or so.

Does anybody have any experience with this?

P.S. - I've never been much of a drinker.  I think the last time I got drunk was almost ten years ago.  I'm just not a fan, at all.

[Z]

I've heard stories like but had never had  happen first hand.  I think that reality that as addicts brain chemistry is messed  up.  You're brain makes connections and"shortcuts"four common memories, for frequent actions and responses.I'm not brain surgeon whatever, but I could an addicts brain having reward pathways quoted in from frequent use.  If all that's missing is drugs to fill it, then missing some after one use might be the same as a longer term addiction.


I've heard the line that when it comes to many aspects of addiction and the interactions it has with our bodies and brains,"all I know is that I don't know nothing."


It seems like there I isn't that much funding and what there is sounds like it goes towards validating meds to treat addiction and make loads of money. 

[wanderingmind (OP)]

It seems like there I isn't that much funding and what there is sounds like it goes towards validating meds to treat addiction and make loads of money.

It's crazy!!!  I think it's gotten a bit better now, but for the longest time, doctors in medical school only received ONE HOUR of "training" on addiction!  Just blows my mind 

With opioids becoming an epidemic and wealthy white people are being affected, society/government is starting to take a look now.  I'm sure that now that Jared Kushner and Christie are top advisers on the Opioid Commission Board, things will get better    Ha, yeah right.

[MoeMentim]

"all I know is that I don't know nothing."

 

[wanderingmind (OP)]

Op Ivy!!!  Bringing me back to middle school