FINALLY!

[DeadCat (OP)]

FINALLY!

There are several articles about this out there and although this has been going on for a few months I just found out about it. tHe Feds (DEA, FBI?) have raided the offices of Reckit Benkiser for criminal violations of their patent on Suboxone. They are FINALLY being accused of what we here have knwn all along: First, they took an accepted , proven drug, buprenorphine and to market it under an exclusive patent, added a small abount of Naloxone "to prevent IV use and "protect against IV use".

That allowed them to be the exclusive US manufacturer of a "new" drug for (I think) 7 years. As that window was closing, they cme out with the film that was the exact same medicine but each film strip ws sold in a unuqely, individually bar coded foil envelope. This made "diversion" much harder.

They also argued that it made the drug safer and less lokely to be accidentally ingested by children (not that it looks like a new orange gum or anything). They also phased out manufacturing the original tablets when in 2009 gebric Suboxone would be allows. In fact with many states people on Medicaid are ONLY allowed to receive the Suboxone strips. costing taxpayers unnessaryily millions of dollars.

Now "The Deds" ar calling it what it alwys was ways to extend their (more expensive) "brand-name" tweaked formulation of a drug that had ben successfully used abroad for decades.

Simply put; "R-B" was mikling a cash cow: opiate -dependent people and their monopply on the only non methodone product and by prescription , take-home product avaialable to people who hound it time to make a change form the "street" drug ball and chain.

Personally, I think they (R-B) are downright greedy bastards for not just giving the shit away and making it an "open source" formula ESPECIALLY when striaght buprenorphine works every bit as well and is dirt cheap.

I am gald this is happening but still very angry that it was ever allowed to happen. Lt's be honest the
For=Profit" world doesn't give the slightest shit about "doing the right thing
ONLY about increasing shareholder value (profit) and those who think this somehow , though some miraculous "invisible hand" gives us the bet possible goods and services have been duped since they were born. I drank that Kool-Aid for a while , until I finished my Econimics degree and realized what a con job we were all playing along with, all expecting to get rich one day and blaming ourslves if we weren't.

I hope R-B is not only fined into bankruptcy (not likely) but also has to refund all the money we individuals an states that gave the exclusive contracts . Even then they (Pharma) won't change, they will just get slickr at getting us to eat their drugs, which in large part are either ineffective, harmful, addictive and prescribed unnecessarily.

Fuck this madhouse. I jut got some good news that looks like I will be cinanially secure for a long time and I am TFO of the USA.

Here is that article:

 http://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=836a4b03-cc61-4f07-8017-b3f6d2f55476

 search will lead to many more and more current ones.

[Lolleedee]

This article was dated 2013.  I guess this means that absolutely nothing ever came from this "probe'?  I guess I shouldn't be suprised.  Nothing will ever take down the greed of Big Pharma.

Don't get me wrong.  I'm not against pharmaceutical companies making a profit.  However, when profit turns to greed and monopoly of a type of drug, then I get pissed.

[DeadCat (OP)]

This article was dated 2013.  I guess this means that absolutely nothing ever came from this "probe'?  I guess I shouldn't be suprised.  Nothing will ever take down the greed of Big Pharma.

Don't get me wrong.  I'm not against pharmaceutical companies making a profit.  However, when profit turns to greed and monopoly of a type of drug, then I get pissed.

I didn't notice the date and that's unfortunate. But on the bright side it was an NPR article yesterday discussing their fies and sanctions FOR thrir pracces that cused me to do the search so that must have been wrtten early on n the investigation.

It IS good though that it wsn't just swept nder the rug beteen 203 and now and that acion is still underway. BR is a slimebucket for doing what they did and I am thrilled to see them pay for it, evenf it did take years.

In other news today my bupe doctor told me he ws forcily detoxing me over the net couplle months DEPITE not failing any drug trstsm aking all our meetings and otherwise being a model patient .Why? Because he said in our agreement when I satrted with him I had agreed to inform him BFRORE taking inay presscribed opiates if I needed to. This was a change the law/rule used to be that if you were taking bupe the patient was respnsible for telling one of the 2 docotors about it if there was going to be an opiate prescription.

I pointed out hw noonsensicle his rule of knowing ahead of time I would be given pain meds and then "clearing it" with him would be because most of the timeyou get painmeds as the result of injury or sugary, after the fact and therefore it i impossible to "pre-inform" him. What I have ALWAYS  don s to inform the opiate prescribing doctor that i was on bupe and most opiates would be wated on me  anyway.

The exception was when I knew sergury was coming up and Itold the surgeon that I would taper down on the bupe and s/he would prescribe adequate painkillers for post-surgical pain.In all case I made my buprenorphne uwe clear and incorporated it into my pain manaement plan.

This guy, who had until today had been a very nice guywent 180 degees in the opposite direction, is flat ou WRONG and ironically I told him I wanted to do a gradual detox and asked if there was an espablsihed detox protocol andhe said there was not. Jut anothr fucked up example of Mercan medicine doling out whatever Pharma tells them to with no thought of consequences or plans foe end game. They are perfectly happy keeping us hooked for like on whetver grabage they can patent.

I plan to get signed letters from every (nly a few really) from every doctor who wrote me anything he objected toad push for a slower, gentler detox. Hell, he even accused me of using my Ambien prescription , which Ihave had since before meeting him as a 9backdoor0 violation of the agreement enven thugh it is not mentioned at all in the agreement.

alll told I am going to quit thsi shitand proabably get high one n a while again if Ican do so wo risining arest or robbery just lke I did with the coke in Latin America. I'll say it again, we are living like a bunch of shep under the control of big business, bullshit corprorate medai and a government in their pocket here and I am fucking sick of it.

Today I fould out that tomorrow I may well be given a rental prperty along with my inhritance which woould provide me an income and nest egg and you can be sure I won't be sticking around to give into one government agecy or coproratoion or another.

FUCK THIS NOISE!

[DeadCat (OP)]

After yesterday's unespected blowout with my otherwise kindly , undestanding sub doctor of over 2 years I found myslef with a handful of choices: 1. dowhatever I can to make peace withhim so that I can continue my taper at a more comfortable rate. That would include getting lettters or a form letter signed by each of them assuring hi that I had inded ben "playing by the rules" as a understood them and doind so fairly. 2. Find a new doctor which as we know could be better or worse. 3. Don't take any action at all, just show up for however many appointments he has me down for and see if he changes ihis tune (it might have been that he just had a really bad day of his own and took it out on me( yet I did go over th'peinted rules again and be prepared to argue that I had broken nonon of them. Or,  3. Begin a detox right now on my own .

Yes detoxing wo a doctor's help, i.e.; comfort meds can be uncomfortable but I may be able to find an MD who whill supply those.

The other option (Nuber 4 really) is to check into a month-lomg detox but the idea of forced group 12 step meetings strikes me as pure hell, especially since my active junkie days are all over 10 years ago. I'm only really facing physical withdrawl and the depression of psychological withdrawal.

Of course, during that time picking up dos again is going to be mighty tempting and I don't want a new H habit.

My question, and I know it was answered on Opiophile and perhaps her is this: what's the best detox method this user group knows of?

[Dog Food]

In my opinion, subs are not good for quitting, just good for maintaining.  This most recent time i had relapsed and after using for a few weeks i went to a detox program.  I was feeling better in literally like 5 days as opposed to the looong drawn out sub withdrawals that can last weeks if ur on em long and at a big dose.

Ive been on subs 4 or 5 different times in the past ten years, and theyve all turned out the same way.  Failed a test and never went back.   I never could get down past a certain amount and still pay him monthly when i could buy em cheaper off the street at that point either.

They never did anything but keep my dope habit pushed back a lil bit.  It is possible to live without the subs bro,. Believe me if i can anyone can

[Chip]

Switch to Methadone and/or start a taper right now or find another Bupe clinic/doctor.

I'm doing one right now and haven't slept for 4 nights. It sucks but I feel the time is right. Fuck this dependency bullshit.

You limited your vulnerability and the sooner you switch or taper, the more control you have.

Tell anyone who cares about your issues with your mom and how this is a bad time to be left hanging.

I'm sorry to hear this. It's fucked up and cruel.

We do not need this problem and I personally can't wait until I get away from the clinic.

Best of luck, friend.

[radioactive_man]

Believe it or not, the people at my treatment center tried to push subs on me. I was in there for alcohol. I thought that was the dumbest fucking shit because I just know I would have ended up IVing them.

[Dog Food]

You know, that shit has been told to me several times and it makes zero sense to me.  Like my first sub doc, after failing my 3rd WEED test in a full year comes in and tells me i need to go inpatient somewhere then i can come back and see him monthly.  Yeah, im gonna go detox from subs over pot,then after being off subs for a month, go back to him and get readdicted to subs....  And thats all the guy was planning on doing for me that visit after taking my 130 doc visit fee.   I looked straight at him and was like bro, you need to either give me my last script "till i get in somewhere" or im gonna need that doc fee back to go get well.  Im not paying you 130 bucks for you to tell me i need inpatient over smoking pot a few times per year.  dude gave me the last script too, i always wondered how many people paid and after failing a drug test get the boot with no last script for all the money they already paid.

Or like how this last detox i was at,. Id say 5 of the 10-12 people discharged the day i left had plans to go get on subs.  2 guys were goin to a 60 day place that gave you 16mg a day i saw on the one guys paperwork. Another guy got set up to go to a private doc straight from detox,. Etc etc.   

Like why would you go through the whole week+ detox to come off everything, just to go take subs???   Why even 'detox'?   Just get subs and start taking em.   


That also reminds me of this other dumb program i had tried once by me.  Its a 2 week outpatient suboxone detox program.  They give you subs starting at like 3 a day then each day or 2 you dropped by 2 mgs.  It was soo stupid, cause they wanted you to come back for the first 2 days "after completing the program" just to keep you from using right away.  And basically the lowest you got was 4 mgs the last 2 days then zero.  So these guys were coming back saying they felt sick and the nurse/counselor was literally telling them that they couldnt be sick. Its like they had no knowledge of tapering right and that you do get sick from stopping subs.  I had used after a week there, failed the drug test, and the counselor told me they were cutting off my subs.  That i should just "stick it out,. I only had 5 more days left.   Fucker had no idea what wds were

[Chip]

Believe it or not, the people at my treatment center tried to push subs on me. I was in there for alcohol. I thought that was the dumbest fucking shit because I just know I would have ended up IVing them.

That is completely WRONG but perhaps someone thought the Naltrexone in Suboxone could be effective as it's approved by the FDA as treatment for alcoholism ?

Unprofessional and DANGEROUS !

i can't imagine anybody making this sort of error.

Have you tried Naltrexone or are you opiate dependent ?

[Lolleedee]

Except subs do not have Naltrexone in it..they have Naloxone.  Why on earth they would use subs for alcohol is beyond me. 

Your sub doc sounds like a toolbag DeadCat! Maybe he was just having a bad day, but still no excuse for the harsh treatment! I have absolutely no good advice, but just wanted to let you know that what he did sucks!

I hope you find a solution that works for you and is relatively painless!

[Chip]

yes you are right, it is Naloxone (which is shorter acting) - i get those two mixed up.

the Naltrexone with alcohol creates a nasty headache, nausea, lethargy and dysphoria so that's why they use it - it's an effective deterrent but it's too easy to just stop using it !

I have gone to treatment clinics that also provide it to alcoholics so I had a chat with a lady drinker that said it was working for her.

having to go to a clinic every day to stop you from drinking sounds as bad as us going everyday to stop you from getting sick, same outcome but they should just give it to her on prescription at the doctor's instead.

who would abuse Naltrexone ? crazy laws.

[Dog Food]

They have a one month implant called vivotrol that releases naltrexone constantly.  No need for daily pills.  Shit they just approved a 6 month buprenorphine implant. Guess what's gonna be next?  Naltrexone, pain meds.   Cant really sell and divert a implant unless you cut yourself open