not that sick, wtf?

[Esoteric Anhydride (OP)]

So some background: I've been on methadone for about 3 years this time, mostly mmt, mostly over 100mg/day but I tapered down to 50mg this last year. About ten days ago I started shooting dope and skipping my doses, as I knew change was coming -- I'm moving out of state, and just sick of the side-effects, fuck MMT, I want back on suboxone.

So, last dose of MD was about a week ago, 25mg that I had to drink at the klinik when I get my doses. From that point, I've done about a gram a day up until yesterday when I'd planned to hop over to subs; so I wake up yesterday with no plans for a wake-up, and, I'm just not that sick, not sick enough for a suboxone switch it seems. All day I did no opiates until mid-evening, but had the random heavy yawns and tears, emotional rebounding, that overall major lethargy and achy shittiness. But, my digestive system isn't tripping too hard, usually I'd be shitting like crazy by this point? I'm not pukey -- in fact I'm sitting here drinking fucking coffee, how the hell am I tolerating coffee >12hrs from a tiny shot of black and 70mg roxi? That's all I did yesterday, and it really was a very small shot late in the evening. No RLS, none of the really bad symptoms, it's just like I'm about halfway dopesick, shit is weird.

Has to be the methadone, huh? Ten days isn't long enough? WTF? How long I gotta wait?!!? Fuck IDK if I should just take the sub but have something to fall back on, which is what I always do, I've pretty much had this transition down in the past (subs -> dope -> subs -> golden), just not from long-term md.

Ima cop today cos reasons, so it's gonna be another day or two before I can try again. Anyone else who's jumped from MD to subs had this problem? Like, I'm sick, but just not THAT sick, you know? WTF??

[Chip]

I'd give it a month - it's taken me a year to get down to 12.5 and I know I am still a long way from home.

I started at 60 - it must be my long history on the drug that's making it so difficult and 3 years is a long time.

[Esoteric Anhydride (OP)]

I can't give it a month, I just don't have the time and the cost of the gear for that period is just unacceptable to me. I copped so I'm good for a couple days, get some work done and then try again. Next time, I'm just gonna wait about 12-16 hrs and then do what I've always done, which is take some bup -- no more than 4-6mg (this is my blocking threshold, which is different for everyone) -- and then wait ~20 minutes and fix some dope. Then wait until the next morning and take some more bup. Historically this has worked well for me, but I typically let myself get quite a bit sicker than I'm getting at this point, tho I am certainly ill; just not in absolute, desperate, ass-kicking wd.

I'll post back when I see how this goes. I knew 10 days isn't very long to get the MD out, but some people do hop over to bup from like 20-30mg after like 72hrs off anything, so from what I read it can be done, guess I'll find out.

Ugh.. Methadone is a fucking drag bro, I'll be stoked to get this bs behind me. I got no desire to get high --  can't say it doesn't feel good, I'm nice and high right now, but really no desire to chase this shit anymore, so I think once I get on subs I'll be quite happy with a little weed and an occasional beer or maybe a little mescaline, haha

[Chip]

I feel exactly the same as you, i just want to get rid of my dependency on any sort of opiate, which makes me realise that there is only so much fun to be had with them and now it's all gone.

I really hope that the younger members take note as they watch us struggle to sincerely lose this chain around our ankles.

I am SO damn sure that I won't get another habit after this one but i won't give up the phenethylamines, that's for sure.

I like your bup 'n' dope idea, it actually has a lot of merit and you are simply adding more agonist than antagonist ... i don't need to remind you to micro-dose at first so you don't get into an irreversible state of sickness BUT i will mention it because I don't want to have you suffer.

I was wondering what have you been doing for veins ? the fem. ?

 

[nikita70]

(...)
No RLS, none of the really bad symptoms, it's just like I'm about halfway dopesick, shit is weird.

Has to be the methadone, huh? Ten days isn't long enough? WTF? How long I gotta wait?!!? Fuck IDK if I should just take the sub but have something to fall back on, which is what I always do, I've pretty much had this transition down in the past (subs -> dope -> subs -> golden), just not from long-term md.

Ima cop today cos reasons, so it's gonna be another day or two before I can try again. Anyone else who's jumped from MD to subs had this problem? Like, I'm sick, but just not THAT sick, you know? WTF??

Contrary to appearances, this is not so easy to GET THAT SICK, as on the fucking 'done before, no matter how moronic/ridiculous does it sound in junkies' mouth.
It takes time and wants you to go through whole this drudgery and annoying dullness and paralysis of so called "mild withdrawals", "halfway withdrawals" etc.

I have jumped from 25mg to bupe (I mean Subutex, Heaven forbid Suboxone) within maybe even less than 24 hours, I believe, just because I couldn't bear this situation being unexplained and so vague anymore.
I wanted it start it and happen like right now and full blown, if it has to at all, instead of looking forward the unknown.

The long-lasting half life of methadone is what I always hate, I mean hate, I really did/do. I definitely prevail/prefer the natural, short acting opies, what hits you from the nod straight into a full blown w/d, than any other "retarded relatives"...

It is so annoying and bothersome even if you aren't going to make any transition or so. The desirable effects (like glow etc.) has been gone long time before, as those bothersome continues like forever. Sucks.   
 
 

[thetalkingasshole]

Maybe you're immune!

 

[Dopeless Hopefiend]

So, I switched from MMT to suboxone about 5 weeks ago. I had been on MMT for 8 1/2 years, at one point up to 155mg a day but at 85mg for about 5 years. During the last year or so I did a long taper from 85 down to 30. I took my last dose of methadone on a Saturday morning, waited 5 days then did my sub induction on Thursday morning. I did take some oxy for the first 3 days but not a lot. Then for the last 48 hours nothing. Over those 2 days i felt like you described, sick(ish) but not half as sick as I'd expected. Almost no gi symptoms or rls, just general lethargy, yawns, etc. I told my doc that I didn't think I was sick enough to induct but she was sure I'd be fine. I mean it was 5 days since my last dose of methadone & I've never used bupe before this so didn't have any past experience to compare it to. Against my better judgment I decided to go ahead & do it. Worst 24 hours of my life. Within an hour (after 2 4mg subutex) I was in full on pwd. I've never felt anything so horrible. She also told me later that my ua from that day came back still positive for methadone. I really wish I would've went with my gut & waited at least another day or two.
I really hope that the transition goes smoothly for you. I can't emphasize enough that methadone is such a different beast compared to any other opiate I've ever used. It takes a long goddamned time to get out of your system. I also gained a lot of weight on MMT and I think that may have had something to do with it as well. They say that it sticks to your fat cells, so maybe it leeches out slower depending on how much body fat you have. Good luck!

[Chip]

So, I switched from MMT to suboxone about 5 weeks ago. I had been on MMT for 8 1/2 years, at one point up to 155mg a day but at 85mg for about 5 years. During the last year or so I did a long taper from 85 down to 30. {snip}

that's the trick, right there ^^^

[Z]

Wasn't there some protocol with microdosing for a few days before induction?  I think it helped with the pwd.  Sometimes I miss the wealth of info that opiophile had built up.

I wish I knew more about subs to help you out.

[Esoteric Anhydride (OP)]

that's the trick, right there ^^^

Apparently it wasn't enough tho as she went into pwd anyway.

@Dopeless Hopefiend - your experience is exactly why I always keep a short acting opi around when I transition, because pwd is a hellish experience but it can be tough to wait long enough, and sometimes it's hard to know when "long enough" is  -- even if it's "only" heroin or oxy you're trying to switch over from.

So how long did it take you to get over the PWD, how long has it been, and how do you feel now?

@Z - you mean microdosing bup while on md? I'm not sure how that would work, although in theory it's really not that different than what I do with the bup->dope->bup thing, which again has worked well for me in the past. Interesting idea tho, maybe really really really small, like well under a mg, doses leading up to the full switch might have the same effect as what I'm doing. Interesting idea..

[Chip]

Apparently it wasn't enough tho as she went into pwd anyway.

True, i think her MD level (dose) was up at the time of transition, ie. she jumped far too early, she admits. I forgot about her hellish experience, for a moment there.

fair point ... negotiating MD is like  driving a large boat

[Griffin]

When I c/t in jail last year from 280 mg of done, it took 5 days to start feeling kinda bad and 7 days to start going into legit w/d so maybe the little bit of dope left in your system plus what ever done is left is keeping enough receptors covered so that it isn't pure death. I was surprised that the jail detox wasn't worse, the length, and being in jail made it worse, but in jail knowing i couldn't get anything took away all the anxiety of knowing that I can stop w/d by getting high since I couldnt get anything.

However it wasn't as intense as a few of the times I quit from oxy it was just insanely long time of feeling horrible. Like I said thought you probably have enough done and left over dope that is keeping you from full shit'sville, it's insane how long that shit takes to get out of your system.

[Anti-hero]

Every once in awhile
You just get blessed with thst
Free pass
It's happened to me
More than once
Last time was
Jail
It's not science
Just a cosmic alignment of the planets
You have been blessed
Now go forth and multiply

[Z]

Yeah, small as in a tenth of a mg small.  It's to acclimatize your receptors without taking enough to trigger pwd.

It was a popular thread, and a bunch of people had said that it worked like magic.  Maybe someone here can add an experience.

[nick]

No advice-you've heard it all before anyway.So,I'll spare you,but what I will say is,much luck with it,man-I hope you get where you want to go as painlessly as possible.