Fentanyl at home (not for beginners...)

[robojunkie (OP)]

OK so I've thought lots about this and I still really haven't made up my mind but just to throw it out there who would be interested in knowing how to make fentanyl from legally and non-suspectly acquired ingredients?  To say the least this is a huge undertaking, requires a pretty hefty set of balls and at least $3000, but done right it will get you all the blessings and curses of an infinite supply (and a small chance of unwelcome company, though not likely if you do not SELL)?

[corlene]

I'll be the first on board

[Opus]

You know my answer there y0.

Information wants to be free!

I've read about everything I can find on this one. Doesn't seem too bad? Less than 10 steps if I remember right, and it seems not terribly dangerous aside from the last step with (CH3CH2CO)2O (if I remember right, it's been a bit).

If Bernie (or Hillary) bring down tuition, I know what I'm doing..

[Z]

I would be curious just to see it at least. 

I have to say that you might want to ask nick, candy and chipper first.  There is the other side of hosting a fentanyl recipe that they should have the chance to consider.

[dizzle]

well I'm not sure what's all required RE: glassware, but I'd love to see what this whole thing entails...

[Jega]

It first I liked the idea of password protecting this but then who gets to be the cartel that gets the password.

I’m leaning towards just putting it out there. $3000 is a big investment plus the time and motivation to do it.

Yeah I vote just put it out there

[Zoops]

Hey what about completely LEGAL fent analogs, like replacing the piperidine ring with a 7-membered azepane ring?

[Opus]

Meh, who needs chems and glassware when simulators exist - me, I wouldn't DREAM of running any sort or REAL rxn outside a real lab..

Great questions zoops.

[nick]

I already know courtesy of your ex partner in crime.

You're welcome to post the papers here-so,it's between you and your conscience whether you should post this in the public domain or not.

[Reezy]

Would love to know. I enjoy chemistry and reading about it. And doing small scale stuff for fun.(aka not this lol) Lotta money to put up but yes I've dreamed the dream only few have ever lived that I know of.

This would probably be too much for most people anyway set aside the money..

I'd say post away. I'm on the edge of my seat.


EDIT: maybe in a members only section. Even though that doesn't do much being anyone can register. But atleast it's not like bam first in the google search. Don't need that attention

[robojunkie (OP)]

I already know courtesy of your ex partner in crime.

You're welcome to post the papers here-so,it's between you and your conscience whether you should post this in the public domain or not.

Nick there are few humans I loathe more than those who heartlessly kill off our kind just to get rep for their product by fenting it up and that has been my ethical conundrum for years about publishing it.  Those who would use it not as sole survivors or small rings like I did but use it to make money and increase the fatal OD rate.  Fentanyl actually has a much safer therapeutic index than heroin but together they are very prone to respiratory arrest.  That has been the one hesitation...

The write up however will be mine, I came up with it and I will leave references where they are fit.  I would also describe in detail, not like in a typical peer review paper.  My moral safeguard is that only those clever and daring and committed enough will ever get it to work without the intuition (the art part of science) or me there as a teacher.  And it won't be all in one post it would just take too long but as I see a chemistry forum has been opened not coincidentally I imagine I will be getting on this in the next couple days.

Words of awareness for those who would try and succeed...freedom is slavery.  Because of its high TI and the huge supply one would have without great self control one would find oneself with an "infinite tolerance" essentially meaning nearly all Mu receptors down regulated and the ability to shoot 50 or 100 MILLIGRAMS at a time and feel NOTHING!  That is a nightmare I have lived three times and it only happens quicker and the return is needless to say pure hell.  Enough to drive many to suicide.  Our mutual friend is essentially on a succeed or die mission and there is nothing I can do to convince him otherwise.  That is my other hesitation, what makes him different than me?

[nick]

I already know courtesy of your ex partner in crime.

You're welcome to post the papers here-so,it's between you and your conscience whether you should post this in the public domain or not.

Nick there are few humans I loathe more than those who heartlessly kill off our kind just to get rep for their product by fenting it up and that has been my ethical conundrum for years about publishing it.  Those who would use it not as sole survivors or small rings like I did but use it to make money and increase the fatal OD rate.  Fentanyl actually has a much safer therapeutic index than heroin but together they are very prone to respiratory arrest.  That has been the one hesitation...

The write up however will be mine, I came up with it and I will leave references where they are fit.  I would also describe in detail, not like in a typical peer review paper.  My moral safeguard is that only those clever and daring and committed enough will ever get it to work without the intuition (the art part of science) or me there as a teacher.  And it won't be all in one post it would just take too long but as I see a chemistry forum has been opened not coincidentally I imagine I will be getting on this in the next couple days.

Words of awareness for those who would try and succeed...freedom is slavery.  Because of its high TI and the huge supply one would have without great self control one would find oneself with an "infinite tolerance" essentially meaning nearly all Mu receptors down regulated and the ability to shoot 50 or 100 MILLIGRAMS at a time and feel NOTHING!  That is a nightmare I have lived three times and it only happens quicker and the return is needless to say pure hell.  Enough to drive many to suicide.  Our mutual friend is essentially on a succeed or die mission and there is nothing I can do to convince him otherwise.  That is my other hesitation, what makes him different than me?

I'm not trying to curtail your right to free speech and I know you're rightly proud of your knowledge of chemistry,but this isn't a recipe for cup cakes we're talking about here.

Maybe write a list of all the pros of posting this and then a list of all the cons- add it all up and look to your conscience.

[Morfy]

I don't want to potentially influence anyone's decision, but I for one like to see such techniques done for various chemicals.

I have no desire to buy necessary equipment, precursors & supplies, BUT I do like to run the process, step by step, in my heAd--like a thought experiment--and: 1-see if it all makes sense, 2-see if I understand why a certain step is done at a specific time, 3-try and predict what the next step will be, etc..... 

Oftentimes I am surprised  by a seemingly unnecessary step, only to work-out WHY that particular step was done.  Usually, its about removing unwanted material that adds nothing, or is dangerous.

For instance: if you follow one of the several methods used to get Coca Paste, or cocaine from coca leaves, I can picture the desired chemical changing form: from an alkaloid conjugated with a plant acid, to a free base form, then conjugated back to its sulphate or hydrochloride version.

There is an oxidation step in there that removes another alkaloid co-extracted with the cocaine.  I believe the preferred method for doing this involves potassium permanganate; but I've also heard rumors that the more-easily available hydrogen peroxide will work as well.

So anyway, whatever you decide to do Robo-J, I support your decision (I think most here will too).  If you DO post, maybe you can add "Common Sense Check Points," or something similar.

What I mean by that is, if someone doesn't have, say, a pH Meter, you can provide alternative methods for getting a solution to the target pH.  Along the same lines, providing helpful tips about what SHOULD be seen when things are going right, or what you should NOT see (when things are going wrong).

Basically checkpoints, confirming that things are proceeding as they should.

Cheers everyone!

MoRFy




 

[Thoms]

Your choice man. You know so much more about where it leads than we all do.

[NZniceguy]

I too would love to read the process, even if just for entertainment reasons. Extracting morphine from different brands and from poppy seed tea/raw opium is my main subject of interest though. Would love to hear any thoughts you have on that stuff also.

I dont think the money grabbing types would bother getting the gear and precursors together anyway......only the truly committed/interested would bother.