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Author Topic: Is Marriage Obsolete ??  (Read 21109 times)

Offline Morfy (OP)

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Is Marriage Obsolete ??
« on: September 21, 2015, 11:05:06 AM »
I might turn this into a poll so we can get a visual representation of our input.

My personal beliefs is that the changes in the last 50-60 (namely the No Fault Divorce) and the actions of the Family Court (or Divorce Court) makes marriage a bad idea for men. 

Typically, a man in the Anglosphere has everything to lose and precious little to gain by marriage; the opposite seems to be true for women (I might be biased here).

Try explaining modern marriage/divorce stats to the older generation and you can really see the generation gap regarding the different attitudes.  Typically, it comes down to:

"People have been pissing & shitting in the Marriage Well for 60 years now; excuse me if I don't want to take a sip of this fetid brew."

Before I get tagged as a misogynist, some people believe that the Courts favour the spouse who Earned Less Money during the marriage, not specifically the wife.

your thoughts?
 
[how does one make a poll?]
« Last Edit: September 21, 2015, 11:08:53 AM by Morfy »
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Re: Is Marriage Obsolete ??
« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2015, 11:41:12 AM »
Well I for one have had an amazing marriage to a woman who I would literally* be dead without 10 times over. That woman has put up with severe breaks in my mental stability over the past decade+ and we have defied the odds of getting married young by only growing in our relationship over the years.

So I say get married if possible and you want it. Do not let fears of a spoiled marriage down the line fuck up the potential for a lifelong partnership.

 Anyone who has had a sour marriage will possibly disagree but I still wanted to shed a positive light on marriage for the unmarried here who may be looking for said partner in the future times.

If it wasn't for her....and my kids....well there would not be a monkawat to post on dau

And yet......YMMV
« Last Edit: September 21, 2015, 11:51:11 AM by monkawat »

Offline Pullmyhair.

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Re: Is Marriage Obsolete ??
« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2015, 12:30:36 PM »
Personally, marriage doesn't really interest me (nor my girlfriend), but it has nothing to do with the potential fallout if we were to split. But, I don't think it's obsolete as a concept.

I do think the the whole 'men going their own way' and men's rights movements are 100% bullshit, and despite their proponents denial, they're both steeped in misogyny. I don't believe that women or the person who made less in the relationship (more often than not, the woman) have the upper hand when it comes to dividing assets in a divorce, and I don't think women have an unfair advantage in terms of custody/child support. The fact is, women are generally the ones who make less because we live in a patriarchy, and they're also the ones who generally sacrifice a career or chance at a career to rear children, and that has value. It's not fair for a couple to divorce and one ends up with a career and a resume and the other with nothing without there being some sort of compensation (child support is not compensation).
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Offline Thoms

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Re: Is Marriage Obsolete ??
« Reply #3 on: September 21, 2015, 12:42:32 PM »
I know if thwy made it as hard to get married as it is to get divorced there would ne less divorces.

To me, im more in love and more "married" to Andi after living together for a little over a year than any of the 5ish years i was with my ex.

I dont need a paper saying we are dedicated to eachother.
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Offline Narkotikon

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Re: Is Marriage Obsolete ??
« Reply #4 on: September 21, 2015, 06:49:38 PM »
Even before same-sex marriage became the law, I never wanted to get married.  In the past, present, or the future. 

In an ideal situation, you'd have two loving partners who are equal, and who are both supportive of each others' differences, and also "melding" together as a united front.

In reality I don't think a lot of people are actually capable of doing that.  Sure, they might be great at some parts, but overall, I think most humans in our culture are too driven by their own egos.  They have a hard time thinking of others as much as they should.  I think that's taught by our culture: instant gratification is possible and preferable for many things, strong emphasis on self-reliance, urging to strive to be the best, being judged for your performance and abilities, etc.  I think those types of values can create a very ego-driven person.  I don't think those types of people tend to be very empathetic and / or caring.   

I guess that's why they say marriage takes work.  I think that's a large part of why so many people get divorced.  They don't want to change or put in the work to save a relationship.  Not all relationships can be saved, but I think a lot could.  You'd have to be willing though.  I think some people would rather take the easy way out by divorcing. 

I also think cultural and gender stereotypes play too big a part in a lot of marriages.  Those can be damaging to the person holding the stereotype, and for the relationship in general.  One spouse may feel they have to do this, the other that.  When the stereotypes don't sync up to the spouse's actions or desires, I think it can create resentments and therefore tension in the marriage. 

I also think some people get married for the wrong reasons: pregnancy, lust misinterpreted as love, feeling like they have to for whatever reason, material concerns, etc. 

....................................................

Morphy, you can create a poll by clicking "add poll" on the top toolbar next to reply.   
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Offline Zoops

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Re: Is Marriage Obsolete ??
« Reply #5 on: September 21, 2015, 07:49:14 PM »
Getting married and then divorced was the dumbest fucking thing I ever did. I blame it in large part for the poor quality of life I currently enjoy. 

The man always gets fucked in a divorce case. I think it will be interesting to see same sex divorces come out as a cultural phenomenon. 
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Offline Morfy (OP)

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Re: Is Marriage Obsolete ??
« Reply #6 on: September 21, 2015, 08:28:55 PM »
Thanks for your replies!

I have seen many unstable men who straighten out after marriage (like heavy drug use to light/no use).

I have also seen good people shredded in divorce.  Basically losing all control over their lives after signing the license.  Usually they sum it up as: $35 for the marriage license, $130,000 for the divorce.

I'm not the first to say this, but there are many same-sex couples that were HAPPY with they way things were, like, no chance of getting married.  Now that that has changed, they have a lot of explaining to do.

Thanks Narko!

** Zoops & Narko, you have Rep Points, but i have to wait an hour before I can share them!  what kind of stuff is that?


« Last Edit: September 21, 2015, 08:41:14 PM by Morfy »
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Offline Griffin

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Re: Is Marriage Obsolete ??
« Reply #7 on: September 22, 2015, 01:10:11 AM »
I think marriage can be a great thing but it's kind of unrealistic to think that you will be the same in 20 years from now. Have the same interests and like the same person for the rest of your life. People change over time its natural and often times that change makes them not like the partner they are married to anymore and they grow distant. However the time spent when the 2 were happy is a great thing and if you need to be married to make the other person secure in knowing you wont just up and leave and that and your love for each other is mutual you should get married.


Pre-nups are a very good idea to put in place. I think both sides can benefit from having a prenuptial agreement and that it is not a sign that your thinking the marriage will fail but a realistic view of how things truly are and a way for both sides to protect themselves if the couple end up changing. I always thought that you don't need a marriage license to show your love to the other person and for you to think that the relationship is what you want for the rest of your life. I do think that it might make both parties feel a bit more secure because you wont have to go through all the court proceedings to end it. However divorce court is usually biased and often screw over one of the people getting the divorce.

Marriage can be a wonderful thing but it is a little unrealistic to think that you will be the same person you were when you got married and for you to have the same interests and such that made you love the other person.


Griffin

Offline Zoops

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Re: Is Marriage Obsolete ??
« Reply #8 on: September 22, 2015, 01:21:10 AM »
If I ever "tie the knot" again, I'm getting a pre-nup for sure. Gotta get a decent-paying job first and a date too before that can happen. 
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Offline Morfy (OP)

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Re: Is Marriage Obsolete ??
« Reply #9 on: September 22, 2015, 02:03:34 AM »
Griff & Zoops bring up the idea of a Pre-Nuptial Agreement.

I have heard/read stories that in modern divorces, Pre-Nups are either ignored, or thrown-out by the judge.  Or they are challenged and discarded.

Even some divorce attorneys are saying that pre-nups won't help.  They advise using a similar document, something called "Distribution of Properties, Upon Termination of Marriage," contract (states/countries may vary in this name).

Can you imagine thinking that the assets you bring INTO a marriage (already owned) and even "protected" by a pre-nup will actually be classified as "Marital Property" and distributed to the party that has no right to it!!

From my POV, the Judge can order ANYTHING they want, and your options are to follow those orders, or go to jail (gaol).

See These Links (Pre-Nups Won't Save You):
http://www.assetprotectiontraining.com/asset-protection-trusts-prenuptial-agreements/ 
http://www.forbes.com/sites/jefflanders/2013/04/02/five-reasons-your-prenup-might-be-invalid/

Well you can find other sites with information.

Basically, IMO, the only way to keep your assets safe is: Not to marry, Not to cohabitate, Not to impregnate.

Otherwise, your assets are up for grabs.

I've heard of judges ordering payments to the Ex IN EXCESS OF the person's income!  No amount of lawyering changed the order.  Either pay or go to jail.

No Thank YOU!
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Re: Is Marriage Obsolete ??
« Reply #10 on: September 22, 2015, 08:27:28 AM »
Marriage isn't Just work..... Its HARD FUCKING WORK.

The more and more Ive lived, Ive noticed that things like 'work ethic', 'integrity' and 'devotion' drops off rapidly as the generations continue to pile up.

Its hard..... Just quit.

Its boring..... Cheat and Lie.

It looks like work..... RUN FOR YOUR LIFE.!!!

No bullishit, there is no more value kept for things that require effort.

People are so fucking self indulgent, spoiled and selfish.

"Reality TV tells me A... So I'll do B and C will make all of my dreams come true.... The grass is so much greener over there.

I won't lie..... Ive considered divorce.

But if I didn't tough it out, and save the most important thing in my life, like Monkawat. I just may not be here either. I wouldnt have a beautiful baby boy, and Id have done what I hate most.....

I would have QUIT. Given up... Surrendered. Whatever.

But marriage is what you make of it...  Its not ALWAYS about cocksucking money. Or earthly possessions.

Its about not being afraid to be that vulnerable in front of someone, and its very much about choosing the right mate.

If marriage is obsolete... Then what else can you commit to???

Yourself...?

Have fun with that

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Re: Is Marriage Obsolete ??
« Reply #11 on: September 22, 2015, 09:06:57 AM »
All of the pre-nup talk made me think of how marriage was thought of in the past.  It was not about love at all.  It was a contract between two people, and two families.  Customs varied from country to country, and over time, but had the three basic components. 

The family of women had to pay dowries to the groom's family.  Dowry is an ancient custom predating human records.  It was especially popular until comparatively recently.  The past hundred years or so. 

The groom or his family had to pay a bride service fee to the bride's family.

And the groom had to pay a dower to the bride.  A dower is property or money that the groom willingly gives the bride.  After marriage, the bride remains in control of her dower, as it's now her property.

There were different rules for what happened after that.  The dower, for instance, was retained by the woman after her husband's death.  It was to enable her to have a measure of support after her husband died. 

In short, marriage was a means of securing property.  All parties were protected. 

It's ironic that marriage today is seen as a "get rich" scheme by some.  The proverbial gold-digger.  It's also ironic that pre-nups are often looked upon negatively.  It's really just a modern way of trying to secure property.  But the whole "marriage is about love" thing tries to negate that practice. 
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Re: Is Marriage Obsolete ??
« Reply #12 on: September 22, 2015, 09:19:39 AM »
I dont think marriage is obsolete at all.

What I do find annoying is that all the people who talk about the sanctity of marriage (especially that dumb bitch in kentucky; anyone else smell a lifetime movie? Lol)  really miss the mark anyways.

Marriage IS a special bond between two people, or should be.  Who needs a state certificate for that anyways? 

Really some one like that kentucky lady should really reconsider her whole role in providing marriage licenses, since it kinda puts the state as more important than the church in marriage anyways, right?

Offline Narkotikon

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Re: Is Marriage Obsolete ??
« Reply #13 on: September 22, 2015, 09:30:52 AM »
I dont think marriage is obsolete at all.

What I do find annoying is that all the people who talk about the sanctity of marriage (especially that dumb bitch in kentucky; anyone else smell a lifetime movie? Lol)  really miss the mark anyways.

Marriage IS a special bond between two people, or should be.  Who needs a state certificate for that anyways? 

Really some one like that kentucky lady should really reconsider her whole role in providing marriage licenses, since it kinda puts the state as more important than the church in marriage anyways, right?

I never thought of it like that, but you're right.  She is being a huge hypocrite in that regard.  Saying she cares so much about ecclesiastical marriages and what the church / god would think.  Who in the hell is she to interpret what god would want.  When did she become a prophet? 

That bitch really needed to be fired on the spot.  It was a total abuse of her power. 
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Re: Is Marriage Obsolete ??
« Reply #14 on: September 22, 2015, 09:59:57 AM »
I don't know if marriage is obsolete

I know that being with someone
As long as I have
Is HARD FUCKING WORK
But it's defo worth it
Especially for my babe

I also know that
Marriage in these here United States of hypocrisy
Is a contract between
Two people who are supposed to love each other
And the fucking federal government

So yeah fuck that
If I can
And in this
I defo can
Opt out
You goddamn right I'm going to
We are all curious about
The things
That may harm us

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