Planning Short Methadone Taper (from dope), Need Advice.

[Mr.Apothecary (OP)]

Hey guys, I could really use some help here... I am coming up on either 6 or 7 years into a dope run.  I can't recall when the actual habit formed, but it originally started with the occasional Perc and 20mg OG OC, then graduated to sniffing packs (or points) of dope.  At some point, sleep and body comfort became impossible if I'd go two days without using.  I was quite young and in a stressful career as a automotive quality control specialist; being unrested, sick, or missing work weren't options (I often worked 7 midnight shifts per week).  So instead of toughing it out for what would have been 3-4 quick days, I opted to move into daily use and deal with it another time.

The time between 2007 and the present has gone so fast.  There have been great times, horrible times, and everything in between.  But I think it's time to try to open my white knuckled hands and emerge from this roller coaster ride.  This may sound hard to believe, but I have never been more than an hour or two into WD (due to a few good connects and keeping back-up stashes of seeds and pills), and the idea of it terrifies me.

So, this is the part where your help would be appreciated...  Has anyone here detoxed from a multi-year short-acting opiate using a methadone taper that was 14 days or less?  I can get some etizolam and a few kpins for extra comfort.  Somebody else recommended DXM, so I will look into that also.

I guess I am seeking advice and info from those who have done similar tapers.  Typical dope WD takes about a week, so the methadone would cover that time period.  My taper will start around 40mg (depending on how I feel) and drop to 0 in 10-14 days.  It appears that methadone's long half life would be advantageous for a FAST taper since the levels will have enough time to build up in my system and soften the impacts of lowering and jumping.  It sure does not seem to help those with long-term methadone habits, though.

So... advice?  Anything?  I very well may fail, but I really want to try to quit before assuming it's impossible and signing up for maintenance.

[makita]

Whats the reason for such a short taper and how much dope are you using daily?  My experience with detoxing off dope using methadone in the old days before I went on maintenance was that it took about 4-7 days to stabilize on 35-40mg.  28 day detoxes were ideal.  14 would probably be too fast.  JMO.

[CHEF]

Nevermind, Good Luck.

[Opus]

I'd probably recommend suboxone over methadone, taper the dope down as low as you can, jump over, and try to use the subs for only a week or two. You're gonna hurt, so be prepared for it.

Unless you're already habituated to methadone, I'm not sure I see much reason to use it. Subs actually work pretty damned well on the short term.

[Mr.Apothecary (OP)]

Hey, I appreciate your reply, Makita.  I'd say a gram a day or a bit less.  I am not really trying to stabilize on the 'done per say, as I don't want to develop a methadone habit.  It seems quite the feat for those already on it to taper down to levels under 20mg.  Unfortunately, I am not sure how long is too long, so I'd rather stick to something shorter.

Unfortunately, the 'phile had quite a few threads about using long-acting opiates for fast, blunt, yet often painless tapers from short-acting opiates.  Subs also work as well for this, but I'd like to start my taper ~8 hours after my last dose of dope (and I'd rather not deal with PWD).  Years ago, a 'phile member posted about traveling to Thailand with a dope habit and bringing a small supply of methadone to make his stay more comfortable.  He took the 'done in decreasing doses over the course of the week then waited for the WDs to begin when the supply ran out, but he was perfectly fine!

Then there is a member here at d&u who recently went to a detox center and was given a 5-7 day bupe taper that worked extremely well at quashing his dope habit.  So, there is definitely something to it.  People often turn to Valium in order to contend with their Xanax habits, due to Valium's longer half-life. 

So please... if anybody has done short methadone tapers from short-acting opiates, please weigh in with how it went.  I'd also appreciate articles or any good info you fine people may have. There is virtually no one in my life who is aware of my habit, so I could use some major support here.  Thanks!

[Mr.Apothecary (OP)]

I'd probably recommend suboxone over methadone, taper the dope down as low as you can, jump over, and try to use the subs for only a week or two. You're gonna hurt, so be prepared for it.

Unless you're already habituated to methadone, I'm not sure I see much reason to use it. Subs actually work pretty damned well on the short term.

Hey, I appreciate it.  No, I have no prior methadone experience.  It was simply my preference since I don't have to worry about PWDs.  I plan to split the doses and take some benzos to help soften the blow.  There were a few old heads in the community who swore by short methadone tapers to easily come off dope.  So I suppose I will soon find out how valid those stories are.

I haven't had much luck sourcing subs, but if this fails, I may look a bit harder and go that route.  Thank you.

[Opus]

It can be done with methadone, what I "like" about subs is it's already like a partial kick when you jump over, so once adjusted to them, you've already made some real progress. With methadone, you risk just making your habit worse if you can't stick to the schedule. After maybe a month/month & 1/2 of MD, you'll start to get habituated to it which just makes it all worse. There's a trick for getting around PWD, you basically induce it with a small amount (key), then get well with a full ag, then wait 24hrs and you should be good on the subs. Sub is very "sticky" to the receptors and also very potent, so if you can get a little in your system it makes induction a lot easier.

The faster you try and do this the more painful it will be, simple as that..

[Jega]

The faster you try and do this the more painful it will be, simple as that..

Nothing else that can be said will be more true then that. Really.

[Mr.Apothecary (OP)]

So, nobody here has done something like this?  I plan to give it an honest try.  Is anybody here in touch with Ravenous from the 'phile?  I believe she had experience kicking dope with quick methadone tapers.  If it doesn't work, I will have to see about acquiring some subs and tapering over a span of three weeks. 

But again, one of our members recently and successfully completed a week-long sub taper to detox from dope, and I've heard of others enjoying similar results.  I realize MMV and I am often unlucky, but I have to try something.
 
Opus, thanks for reminding me of the acclimation method (or trick) for bupe induction.  It sounds like it's fairly fool proof, but I am not very trusting of buprenorphine in the first place.  It doesn't help that my dope WD symptoms take 16 hours to start creeping in, so I have no idea how long I'd otherwise have to tough it out prior to induction.  The idea of slow acclimation from an ultra-low dose still makes me feel uneasy, but I imagine such a dose lacks the strength to do much damage PWD wise.  Thanks again, guys.

[Chip]

you have to understand that it takes a week to recover from any drop in MD dosage.

you're only going to slighlty offset the misery and yet, in some ways it's going to be prolonged.

I suggest going with Chops - he is absolutely spot on and that way, once over the initial induction and stress of noving to the partial agonist, it should be an easier slide.

the thing about MD is that even just two weeks means a detox from both it and the dope.

try the bupe route first.

[Mr.Apothecary (OP)]

Yes, I understand.  Subs just have not been available to me at this point, so I was hoping to roll with what I have. I've been doing research, and it seems like drugs with long half-lives can make it easier to quit those with shorter half-lives.  So, I plan to try it for science and I will report back after I begin in about a week, or just over.  If I have to jump the ship and change plans, you guys have given me alternative plans.

[Narkotikon]

No real advice about the taper itself.  Since you asked for info / advice on comfort meds though, I suggest Phenibut.

When I first tried it, I found it to be an excellent muscle relaxer.  I was thinking how much I'd have benefited from using it when in w/d.  I'm definitely going to be using it if I ever come off Subs. 

The Etizolam and Klonopin are great too.  I always found benzos to be helpful in opiate w/d.  Especially for the anxiety / craving, insomnia, and the RLS.  But if you run out of benzos, or don't have enough to make you comfortable, I highly suggest Phenibut. 

Whereas benzos act on GABA_a, Phenibut acts on GABA_b.  You'll still get plenty of anxiety and RLS relief though.  Phenibut also helps with insomnia, but I've noticed that it's not really conducive to long-term sleep.  Maybe about 4-5 hours then I'll wake up.  That could just be me though.  And of course any sleep in w/d is precious. 

It's fairly cheap and easy to get.  You might even be able to find it locally in health food stores, or vitamin / supplement shops.  If you're buying it, I recommend PrimaForce brand Phenibut.  Definitely buy the bulk 100g container.  They have bottles of 90 caps, each cap containing 250mg, but when you compare the amounts, the bulk power did much cheaper. 

For dosing, I'd say start around 1.5grams, then take more a few hours later, until you reach a comfortable level.  It take a while to reach peak levels though.  Don't expect results in 30 minutes.  Also be warned that it is very long acting.  The first day I took it I didn't feel back to normal until two days later. 

Just another med that could help you.  Don't take it for too long of a time, as you'll have to taper off of it.  A few weeks should be fine.  If you feel antsy or shaky when you stop, just gradually lower your dose. 

I hope you get more responses as to the methadone taper.  Good luck when you start the plan!   

[Mr.Apothecary (OP)]

Thanks.  I appreaciate anybody's helpful input, even if it's not what I want to hear.