California doctor up for murder...

[Bhoris (OP)]

A doctor from California is now on trial for the deaths of 3 of her clients due to overdose. Apparently as many as 12 of her clients actually died but she's only being charged in 3 of the deaths. Apparently one of her clients even overdosed inside of her office! Pretty crazy that even after being warned by the DEA, she didn't at least change her prescribing practices/policies. The article mentions that some of the appointments lasted as little as 3 minutes. I imagine she's the type of doctor that other doctors hate, giving them a bad name and all. I'm all for easy access to meds for people who actually need them but she seems to be really pushing the envelope. Here's the article: http://news.yahoo.com/trial-begins-california-doctor-drug-deaths-3-men-180136325.html

[razor girl]

That is not an attractive looking person but I guess few are in orange jumpsuits.  She is certainly the type of doctor who makes it more difficult for CPPs to get their meds, though I tend to view people who OD on pain meds as collateral damage, it sucks for them and their loved ones but it should in no way stop people who need pain Rxs from getting them.  No one forced them to shoot their meds, mix them with alcohol and/or benzos or take 10x the Rxed amount.  The real and preventable damage done is not to her or those who OD'd but to the people who will be denied pain meds because of people like her (IMO).

[jdub]

I need a doctor like this.

[Chip]

I have at many times of my life needed this guy ... *chuckles*

[_Enduser]

I think charging her with fucking murder is going waaaaaay too far.  Gross professional negligence, sure, but fukin murder?

The justice system is fucked.  At the end of the day, she failed her patients and failed the oath she took, but did she intend to or plan to cause harm to people?  Nope.  You don't know her side of the story anyways;  it's also possible she was too compassionate and was manipulated/taken advantage of by her patients and just gave them what they asked for, in hopes of allowing them to deal with their condition.   Also, I'm suspicious whenever people say shit like "in some instances, a patient's office visit only lasted 3 minutes!"

Isn't that usually how long an Rx refill visit lasts anyways?  Assuming there are no problems?  I feel like the government is trying to "make an example" out of her to discourage doctors from prescribing ANY opiates for pain management (as if the government has any business telling a doctor what to prescribe with all their knowledge of physiology/anatomy), thus continuing the "off-label revolution" that has ensured millions of people aren't getting treated for whatever condition they may have when the treatment coincidentally involves Rx's that are abused recreationally. 

[Morfy]

If this doctor pays for a good lawyer, and chooses a jury trial, she could get off (completely, or with a lesser charge)

Doctors that deal with patients that have a high risk of dying often face problems like these.

If her lawyer demonstrates that some cancer patients die as a result of being poisoned by their chemotherapy, or radiation therapy, or any NUMBER of bad interactions with regular medicines, she could be okay.

Her patients are at a higher risk of accidentally dying & intentionally dying: unfortunately.  Someone with a medical degree has to balance between the patients' needs and the law.  It gets murky, sure.

If she goes to Federal Court, her chances of winning decrease greatly.

[Zoops]

Yeah that's totally fucked from the get-go. No way did she intend to kill any of her patients either with forethought or malice, or even "in the heat of the moment" like a second degree murder charge.

That's completely fucked up, man. Not even manslaughter. If they can show that she was prescribing way more narcotics than could ever be needed, in combination with high doses of benzos (I mean something like 200mg hydromorph/day plus 20mg Xanax/day) or even, God forbid, barbiturates, then maybe they could have a good case for manslaughter but damn, is a refill visit for narcotics supposed to take an hour just because it's narcotics?

I bet most of her patients are sick as shit right about now, quite literally. There was a doc around my area a couple years ago that I met three people in jail that had been to him to get drugs, and I had visited this guy twice before I got locked up. The first time I went in to see him (a young, affable and handsome Indian man), he simply asked, "what do you need today?" I immediately picked up on the vibe, and said that I was seeking a prescription for Ambien 10mg. Maybe I didn't completely pick up on the vibe because if I had, I'd have requested at least 30mg Adderall #90, 30mg oxycodone #120, 10mg methadone #120, and 30mg temazepam #90.

But he said "will ninety be enough for you?" I said yes of course, and he even put one refill on it (the most you can get of a controlled Rx is a six month supply). I went back to this joker 3 months later and he did it again for me three months early.

I read this guy's disciplinary papers from the VA Board of medicine and he was cited for giving  waaaaaay tons of drugs to about 7 or 8 different patients. Ridiculous combinations of stuff like amphetamines, benzos and two different strong opiates along with a pinch of Ritalin to certain patients, then refilling 3 month supplies after only  one month. They took  his DEA prescriber number  and made him take like 16 hours of  continuing  medical education credits on proper patient recordkeeping and narcotics prescribing.  Botta  bing botta boom! That's it.

[Griffin]

What are everyone's thoughts on dealers who get murder charges for selling the dose that eventually killed the person? I think it is just a ploy to stop people from dealing by giving them the worst penalties possible. Knowingly having fentanyl in your product and not telling people I think is a bit different but would like to hear peoples opinions on the subject.


Griffin

[Chip]

the dope dealer's standard line, especially when the product changes, is to say to do a test shot or shot 1/3 and wait 90 seconds, then another and another.

i've called it wrong 3 times (i have OD'ed 3 times) and in each time, it was I and not the dealer, whom was culpable.

some dealers may not use so what's another worry but dealers don't really want to kill their good customers.

just sad for all ... the doctor trusted in his patients too much and seemed to liberally prescribe in return for rapid turnaround so some duty of care line was crossed.

[Anti-hero]

Then they should arrest people who sell
Alcohol with murder.
This is one of the main steps that needs to be taken.
To end the drug war.
People asked she gave.
What happened after that
Well that is their fault.
Not hers. You can't hold the provider
For another's persons miss use.
if you do. Then car dealers. Arms dealers. Drug dealers.
See the connection?


Yea chipper I need a doctor like that too
That made me laugh

[Griffin]

I know of a few stories where a bartender or cocktail waitress was charged for getting someone to drunk when their customer drove and killed someone. A few people I know have been fired for letting people get to drunk at bars after they were charged with DUIs. I completely agree with what your saying hero1 it is asinine to charge people who had nothing to with the actual murder.

There is such a difference in the standards of the judicial system and how they prosecute people. I hate almost every thing about it mostly how pedophiles and sex offenders don't do very much time and non-violent offenders are often charged with more time than violent offenders.

Thanks drug war for all the hypocrisy and for having such a difference in the way they charge people based on if it is drug related or if its a poor person as opposed to a rich person because they almost never get tried the same. Drug dealers get charged all the time for murders for selling their product but I have never once heard a story of a gun salesmen being charged for selling a gun to a lunatic who killed a bunch of people unless it was a black market gun sale.


Griffin

[Narkotikon]

My Sub doctor from late-2009 to early-2011 was like that doctor.  He was extremely liberal.  Lots of his patients were younger with "back problems."  Some would be nodding out in the waiting room.  Most of his staff were very young, just out of school.  I suspect on of the nursettes was using.  Always appeared very faded. 

His name was Dr. Shearer, and at the time he was apparently the biggest prescriber of oxycodone in the entire state of KY.  I live in OH, but drove across the river to N. KY to see him.  I switched to him b/c he did SMT much cheaper (I didn't have insurance at the time), and because he was willing to let Sub patients take benzos.  He's the one who scripted me 1mg Klonopin QID. 

On my first visit I thought he'd give me 2mg / day or something more normal like that.  He asked me what I was normally scripted, and I told him 2mg.  He said "does that hold you?"  Being the addict I am I said it was just so so.  So he asked if I wanted to double the dose.  Sure Dr. Shearer.  So I walked out of there on the first visit with 4mg Klonopin / day.  I really wonder what he'd have done if later claimed I was having pain, and wanted to switch from Subs to regular pain meds.  I know of one guy who was getting 100ug / hour fent patches from him.

I left him in early 2011 b/c I wanted to get in with an actual psychiatrist.  The psychiatrist slowly tapered me off the Klonopin over a year.  I had zero w/d once I quit.  So I was lucky he was willing to do that.  Had I stayed with Dr. Shearer until he was busted, I'd have been fucked. 

After I left, the feds raided Dr. Shear's office.  The news said patients were showing up for appointments having to leave after reading a sign on the door.  Those people were fucked.  Some of his patients were legit, but some were obviously using him as a pill mill. 

He was under review by the state medical board, and being sued by some of his dead patients' families.  After he quit practicing, there was an article in the paper about how he had been arrested in Newport or Covington after a hooker he was with called the cops b/c he had a gun.  The paper said he was also high then.  It didn't list the drugs.  I remember his fingers were always black, so I assumed he was smoking something. 

He eventually committed suicide.  Not sure how the lawsuits turned out.  http://www.wcpo.com/news/local-news/boone-county/florence/dr-gary-shearer-suspended-northern-kentucky-pain-doctor-dies-of-suspected-suicide

I agree that doctors shouldn't be charged for their patients' behaviors.  Sure, they scripted the meds, but those patients are the ones who abused them.  No one made them take more.  That's on them.  I sometimes think their grieving families are just looking for an easy payout when they sue. 

Holding doctors accountable like that just makes it that much harder for legit patients to receive adequate care.  And, like Hero and others said, it's hypocritical.  I'd love to see a gun manufacturer or seller be sued over senseless gun deaths.  I'm sure the NRA would be all over that, and would pay for their legal fees.