Judgmental Doctors rant about the 'phile

[Seven]

Opiophile is (has/was?) been brought up and put to the attention of many med students in course work and while training dea and drug task forces.

Im not going to look up links to back up this claim, but if you dont believe me, it doesnt take much digging.

[Riddick">Riddick]

Opiophile is (has/was?) been brought up and put to the attention of many med students in course work and while training dea and drug task forces.

Im not going to look up links to back up this claim, but if you dont believe me, it doesnt take much digging.

Good post.

[Chip]

Opiophile is (has/was?) been brought up and put to the attention of many med students in course work and while training dea and drug task forces.

Im not going to look up links to back up this claim, but if you dont believe me, it doesnt take much digging.

Good post.

really ? so they see us as being part of the problem and not the solution, yeah ? that's a pity.

[jdub]

Opiophile is (has/was?) been brought up and put to the attention of many med students in course work and while training dea and drug task forces.

Im not going to look up links to back up this claim, but if you dont believe me, it doesnt take much digging.

Good post.

really ? so they see us as being part of the problem and not the solution, yeah ? that's a pity.

I think they see us as a source of info. But as drug users, we're naturally "part of the problem" in their eyes.

[Griffin]

Opiophile is (has/was?) been brought up and put to the attention of many med students in course work and while training dea and drug task forces.

Im not going to look up links to back up this claim, but if you dont believe me, it doesnt take much digging.

Good post.

really ? so they see us as being part of the problem and not the solution, yeah ? that's a pity.

I think as drug users they will see it as part of the problem. Like the info and posts on how to abuse pills and find ways to get and use medications illegally. I think as the HR part they may not focus on that at all but if they do they should see how it is/was such an amazing source for HR and help for people who want to quit or are going to use anyway and want to know everything they can so they don't have long term damage.

HR information on the site helped people to realize and understand needle exchanges and all the information and everything else that is provided from those sources. Safe shooting practices and info, the good samaritan act and where it is available or how it can be brought to legislatures and voted on in states that don't have it. Also all the info about MMT and Sub maintenance, and how to use drugs properly so that you don't get abscesses, overdose's, liver and kidney damage from anti-inflamtory's that are used in a lot of pain medications.

Also all the info for cpp's who need info on what medications to take and how to take them and how to go about getting into programs to help manage their pain and give them some quality of life back. I think some people who have never experienced real chronic pain don't think it is a real thing and think that people should be able to get by on just tylenol or naproxen(which is more harmful for your body than narcotic pain killers). So they don't see a point in helping those people except in the cases of cancer or terminal illnesses. Some people just don't realize how detrimental having chronic pain can be to ones quality of life and overall well being and they don't understand what illnesses or life events can bring people to be cpp's except for the terminally ill, post-op surgery, or cancer patients.


Griffin

[Seven]

Yes, exactly.

They completely ignore any good harm reduction or info that basically shows there are a lot of folks far more knowledgable than a lot of docters.

[suboxstitute]

Yeah I've seen opiophile brought up on other sites... The Angry Pharmacist is one of the bloggers who brought up the site once or twice..... (he is actually very funny -  afaik he's no longer writing his blog but archives might be there).    Pharmacists such as him (and others on tumblr, twitter , wherever) are fun to read since they're pretty much onto all the various excuses people use to get their meds early, replaced, etc.  All of which I have tried in the past with various degrees of success.   Ha!

I actually think it's funny/cool when opiophile (or similar HR/drug discussion boards) are cited by these professionals because they have no clue what goes on here beyond their assumptions based on one or two threads.   No.  Clue. 

I love following medical people on twitter, etc. just to read what they have to say about drug addicts.  It's sort of sad but funny.

[monkawat]

Of course, if you do use opioids for chronic pain you will become addicted. Meaning, you can't cease taking meds without withdrawals (a meaning obscured by using addiction instead of "really into" (as in food, TV, etc). But the fact MDs irl (let alone that forum, which I haven't had time to see) don't get it and/or judge patients because of addictions they themselves (the MDs ) created is itself painful.

I agree with what you're saying completely, but let's be clear here:

If you're a chronic, long-term user of opioids, you WILL become dependent.  That's completely different from "addiction." 

Addiction implies having unfortunate, bad consequences from your use of a drug.  Not all CP patients experience that. 

Dependence is just the body becoming accustomed to the presence of a drug.  When the drug is suddenly stopped, the body goes through w/d.  That is a feature of addiction, but not the definition of addiction. 

A person can be dependent and not be an addict.  Although most people, including doctors and other healthcare professionals, don't make that distinction, even though they should.

However, a lot of us start out dependent as CPPs and end up addicts. The two aren't mutually exclusive though, that's for sure. I can only speak for myself and all my family members who are also opioid addicts- as we all have chronic pain issues and all love the high itself from the pain meds. A lot of us kidded ourselves into thinking we were merely dependent when we were having to resort to illegal means (either by buying c2's off the street like some of us or by resulting to property or violent crime like some of my more distant relatives have had to do in the past) and other addictive type personality traits and behaviors in order to get our drugs/fixes.

But I think a lot of CPPs I've met in IRL will proudly say that they're no damn filthy junky, they only use their opioids for pain and NEVER take more than prescribed.......Yeah..after you've just been sitting in the waiting room of a pill mill doc nodding your fucking face off.

-----

Oh and several of the docs on that thread seem like good, knowledgable, reasonable docs...specifically ghost dog. Guy has accurate and responsible views on how MMT is a vital aspect of harm reduction and is the best mode and method of treatment for opioid addiction/dependence.

 All but 1 of the posters from the phile came across as fucktards on that thread and didn't need to post on there. It served no purpose but to further solidify the opinions and views held by the stubborn ass anti-opioid docs on there that those who abuse opiates and opioids are people they shouldn't give a shit about because of the way they trolled/started shit on there for the simple sake and reason that they wanted to stir the pot, so to speak.
 
But let's be honest for a second- a shit ton of "pain docs" these days aren't real pain doctors at all. They're not board certified anesthesiologists who have done an additional fellowship in interventional pain management. They're just family or internal med docs (often not even board certified in THOSE specialties) who are out to make some extra bucks. Hell, some at the true, honest to G-d pill mills in TX are either foreign educated docs from India/the like or non-board certified GPs who graduated from carribbean medical schools, which are notorious dumping grounds for rich, desperate-to-be-doctors-like-daddy kids from the USA..

The doctor I was seeing up until recently was a damn pill mill doc who hid behind his family medicine board cert, as if that made him both legitimate and a good doctor; which he is neither. I openly admitted to him I that I thought (and again told him I KNEW) I was in full blown addiction mode and he (I SHIT YOU NOT) said- "Well that just means you're not getting enough meds and need stronger medications in general" and he scripted me new BT meds on top of my oxycodone and morphine ER (He was giving me 240 hydros, 180 oxy 30s, and 60 mscontin 100s, and 30 xanax 2mg which I still have because I don't even use benzos- I literally have a 2 year stockpile of them- 720 bars in total)

He drug tested me 4 times in two years and I know for a fact I had dirty piss the first time I saw him. That's just not responsible pain management practice or acceptable medical care in general.

I know there are good pain docs out there though, I just didn't wanna deal with them. So my fellow chronic pain sufferers who HAVE legit docs- do not jump down my throat here- I am merely sharing MY personal experiences with this ONE doctor and how I know that there are thousands of docs just like him operating "pain management" facilities across the country currently, which I feel only detracts from the real pain clinics where doctors actually do interventional pain procedures and limit their opioid prescribing to acceptable amounts and don't actively and knowingly participate in the addiction spiral of their patients.


Oh and fuck the angry pharmacist. That guy's a fucking dick..

[thetalkingasshole]

I'm being 100% genuine when I say SmartDoc9

A really god awful attempt to troll
altho one or teo prople did think I was actually a doctor/student hahaha

I highly doubt any one of those student doctors would be anything but solidified in their opinions
regardless of how eloquent the arguement is, its still coming from an "untrustworthy" source

The reaction from medical establishments to US has been to basically adopt a zero tolerance policy for opiates
meaning even if you get a script, it wont be enough to even develop a tolerance
the only people who are going to "adequately medicate"  patients are considered crooked at best


Hey monkawat, if that PM doctor you saw was such a piece of shit who was obviously running a pill mill
and prescribing you enough meds to feed a family of four (the Osbourn's)
And making you obviously addicted, AND had the audacity to prescribe even stronger meds when confronted
why did you 1) keep going to him, and 2) accept the dose increase

It just seems like you should be careful that high up, in you tower of stockpiled xanax
(Why did you fill the xanax? )

Personally I know now that I am old enough I know of a clinic I could get into by Friday
I do live in Florida so that helps but still, why do we care what people like this think?
If you had thid doctor as a PCP/GP or especially a PM, how long would you stay?
How many doctors who think liberally prescribing opiates, even if justified, post about it online?

[monkawat]

I'm being 100% genuine when I say SmartDoc9

A really god awful attempt to troll
altho one or teo prople did think I was actually a doctor/student hahaha

I highly doubt any one of those student doctors would be anything but solidified in their opinions
regardless of how eloquent the arguement is, its still coming from an "untrustworthy" source

The reaction from medical establishments to US has been to basically adopt a zero tolerance policy for opiates
meaning even if you get a script, it wont be enough to even develop a tolerance
the only people who are going to "adequately medicate"  patients are considered crooked at best


Hey monkawat, if that PM doctor you saw was such a piece of shit who was obviously running a pill mill
and prescribing you enough meds to feed a family of four (the Osbourn's)
And making you obviously addicted, AND had the audacity to prescribe even stronger meds when confronted
why did you 1) keep going to him, and 2) accept the dose increase

It just seems like you should be careful that high up, in you tower of stockpiled xanax
(Why did you fill the xanax? )

Personally I know now that I am old enough I know of a clinic I could get into by Friday
I do live in Florida so that helps but still, why do we care what people like this think?
If you had thid doctor as a PCP/GP or especially a PM, how long would you stay?
How many doctors who think liberally prescribing opiates, even if justified, post about it online?

 I accepted the increase because I, like many drug addicts, find it hard to control myself when I am offered even stronger opioids to have at my disposal. Hard to believe right? Not to mention opioid induced hyperanalgesia when taking those high ass doses of pills.

I went in that time with the intentions of having him put me on done, but he denied that possibility and I deep down wasn't ready to start fixing my life and truly wanted to keep getting high at that  point. Not particularly easy to deny that kind-of gig when its offered on a silver platter with ZERO cost for the medications. And I filled the Xanax cuz it was free and should I ever need it (I have PTSD from my time in the military), I'll have essentially a damn near lifetime supply.

I'm sorry you think I'm enjoying my time up high in my tower of xanax, but It's fun to make lego-type buildings out of them sometimes.

Just now old enough for a methadone clinic? How young are you? Does your state require you to be 21 or 25 or something and you just now hit one of those ages...?

I'm not passing the blame squarely onto the doc's shoulders. It was all on me to keep going to him, no doubt about that. I was just pointing out that people like him make it hard for folks to take the true pain physicians' practices seriously and makes their opioid scripts come under unnecessary scrutiny.

[monkawat]

The funny part is- most benzos don't work too well for me and xanax has even made me nauseated at the 2mg dose-but it certainly seemed like a great idea at the time...go figure

[Anti-hero]

I'm being 100% genuine when I say SmartDoc9

A really god awful attempt to troll
altho one or teo prople did think I was actually a doctor/student hahaha

I highly doubt any one of those student doctors would be anything but solidified in their opinions
regardless of how eloquent the arguement is, its still coming from an "untrustworthy" source

The reaction from medical establishments to US has been to basically adopt a zero tolerance policy for opiates
meaning even if you get a script, it wont be enough to even develop a tolerance
the only people who are going to "adequately medicate"  patients are considered crooked at best


Hey monkawat, if that PM doctor you saw was such a piece of shit who was obviously running a pill mill
and prescribing you enough meds to feed a family of four (the Osbourn's)
And making you obviously addicted, AND had the audacity to prescribe even stronger meds when confronted
why did you 1) keep going to him, and 2) accept the dose increase

It just seems like you should be careful that high up, in you tower of stockpiled xanax
(Why did you fill the xanax? )

Personally I know now that I am old enough I know of a clinic I could get into by Friday
I do live in Florida so that helyt?ps but still, why do we care what people like this think?
If you had thid doctor as a PCP/GP or especially a PM, how long would you stay?
How many doctors who think liberally prescribing opiates, even if justified, post about it online?

 I accepted the increase because I, like many drug addicts, find it hard to control myself when I am offered even stronger opioids to have at my disposal. Hard to believe right? Not to mention opioid induced hyperanalgesia when taking those high ass doses of pills.

I went in that time with the intentions of having him put me on done, but he denied that possibility and I deep down wasn't ready to start fixing my life and truly wanted to keep getting high at that  point. Not particularly easy to deny that kind-of gig when its offered on a silver platter with ZERO cost for the medications. And I filled the Xanax cuz it was free and should I ever need it (I have PTSD from my time in the military), I'll have essentially a damn near lifetime supply.

I'm sorry you think I'm enjoying my time up high in my tower of xanax, but It's fun to make lego-type buildings out of them sometimes.

Just now old enough for a methadone clinic? How young are you? Does your state require you to be 21 or 25 or something and you just now hit one of those ages...?

I'm not passing the blame squarely onto the doc's shoulders. It was all on me to keep going to him, no doubt about that. I was just pointing out that people like him make it hard for folks to take the true pain physicians' practices seriously and makes their opioid scripts come under unnecessary scrutiny.

This isn't even akin to putting
And drink in front of a alcoholic
When there are mitigating factors
Such as pain and ptsd involved.

I kinda have to agree with the doctor
Long ago I had a doctor
That was prescribing me 300 80 ocs
16 boxes of aticq 1800mcg
400 mgs of methadone
240 2 mg xanax
480 4mg dilulad
And could call him and he would call the hospital and I could go get a sq shot of dilly
Never was sick or had to worry  about scoring
The dea forced him to retire or go to jail
But your quality off life does go back to dam near normal
When you don't have to worry about meds

And it shows allot of restraint monk
Cause all that xanax
Man makes my mouth water

[monkawat]

I'm being 100% genuine when I say SmartDoc9

A really god awful attempt to troll
altho one or teo prople did think I was actually a doctor/student hahaha

I highly doubt any one of those student doctors would be anything but solidified in their opinions
regardless of how eloquent the arguement is, its still coming from an "untrustworthy" source

The reaction from medical establishments to US has been to basically adopt a zero tolerance policy for opiates
meaning even if you get a script, it wont be enough to even develop a tolerance
the only people who are going to "adequately medicate"  patients are considered crooked at best


Hey monkawat, if that PM doctor you saw was such a piece of shit who was obviously running a pill mill
and prescribing you enough meds to feed a family of four (the Osbourn's)
And making you obviously addicted, AND had the audacity to prescribe even stronger meds when confronted
why did you 1) keep going to him, and 2) accept the dose increase

It just seems like you should be careful that high up, in you tower of stockpiled xanax
(Why did you fill the xanax? )

Personally I know now that I am old enough I know of a clinic I could get into by Friday
I do live in Florida so that helyt?ps but still, why do we care what people like this think?
If you had thid doctor as a PCP/GP or especially a PM, how long would you stay?
How many doctors who think liberally prescribing opiates, even if justified, post about it online?

 I accepted the increase because I, like many drug addicts, find it hard to control myself when I am offered even stronger opioids to have at my disposal. Hard to believe right? Not to mention opioid induced hyperanalgesia when taking those high ass doses of pills.

I went in that time with the intentions of having him put me on done, but he denied that possibility and I deep down wasn't ready to start fixing my life and truly wanted to keep getting high at that  point. Not particularly easy to deny that kind-of gig when its offered on a silver platter with ZERO cost for the medications. And I filled the Xanax cuz it was free and should I ever need it (I have PTSD from my time in the military), I'll have essentially a damn near lifetime supply.

I'm sorry you think I'm enjoying my time up high in my tower of xanax, but It's fun to make lego-type buildings out of them sometimes.

Just now old enough for a methadone clinic? How young are you? Does your state require you to be 21 or 25 or something and you just now hit one of those ages...?

I'm not passing the blame squarely onto the doc's shoulders. It was all on me to keep going to him, no doubt about that. I was just pointing out that people like him make it hard for folks to take the true pain physicians' practices seriously and makes their opioid scripts come under unnecessary scrutiny.

This isn't even akin to putting
And drink in front of a alcoholic
When there are mitigating factors
Such as pain and ptsd involved.

I kinda have to agree with the doctor
Long ago I had a doctor
That was prescribing me 300 80 ocs
16 boxes of aticq 1800mcg
400 mgs of methadone
240 2 mg xanax
480 4mg dilulad
And could call him and he would call the hospital and I could go get a sq shot of dilly
Never was sick or had to worry  about scoring
The dea forced him to retire or go to jail
But your quality off life does go back to dam near normal
When you don't have to worry about meds

And it shows allot of restraint monk
Cause all that xanax
Man makes my mouth water

Thanks Hero. I really wouldn't think that docs would ever write THAT intense ass amount of meds as you got.....but nothing really seems to surprise me anymore.

I know where your old doc was coming from as it sounds like in his mind he really was writing an acceptable amount of meds, but I know now my doc didn't genuinely give a rat's ass about me, he just wanted my money every month and he knew he wasn't prescribing appropriately.

Even most pill mill docs aren't going to up your meds when you admit you're abusing them to em. That's where even those folks generally say things have crossed a line with them.

And with the bars it really isn't something I enjoy the high of- more of a shit hits the fan type deal to save me from having to worry about getting any in the future.

[Opi-ette]

The funny part is- most benzos don't work too well for me and xanax has even made me nauseated at the 2mg dose-but it certainly seemed like a great idea at the time...go figure

Monk I never abuse my Xanax, I even end up with monthly surplus. Never found any joy in them other than helping me sleep. Now my oxy, we all know that's a completely different animal. Because of course, two fold. Pain (semi) management and well they just feel so damn good. Until you can't feel them anymore. And thus becomes the circle of psychosis.

Didn't mean to steal your post Monk. Not feeling too hot at the moment. Hope you are doing well with your new treatment.

[monkawat]

The funny part is- most benzos don't work too well for me and xanax has even made me nauseated at the 2mg dose-but it certainly seemed like a great idea at the time...go figure

Monk I never abuse my Xanax, I even end up with monthly surplus. Never found any joy in them other than helping me sleep. Now my oxy, we all know that's a completely different animal. Because of course, two fold. Pain (semi) management and well they just feel so damn good. Until you can't feel them anymore. And thus becomes the circle of psychosis.

Didn't mean to steal your post Monk. Not feeling too hot at the moment. Hope you are doing well with your new treatment.

All good, no thread jack here. I just had to respond to this fucking guy. Saying I'm up in some "Tower" for passing some judgment on a doctor that was a major POS and only contributed to my addiction and spiral downward in my life's course when he has no clue about the comorbidities and other problems that hero brought up just makes him come across as a....well his handle is appropriate as fuck. I don't need that kinda negativity at this moment..been dealing with night terrors and flashbacks again..

I'm CERTAIN he would deny the scripts I was getting, ESPECIALLY the Xanax...
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

While a lot of those forum docs are judgmental, arrogant douchebags, you have to try to place yourself in their shoes and realize that they (particularly the ER docs in areas with serious opiate and opioid addiction problems) have let their negative experiences guide their current opinions and approaches too much. That is only human, y'all.. We can't expect trollish posts to make any difference in their opinions. It will actually serve the exact opposite purpose of what those posts were probably intended do. Or they just wanted to troll the shit out of them for the fun of it all.

The pain docs on that particular thread weren't all bad..they just were out of touch with some major realities.

[thetalkingasshole]

im sorry to hear youre having an especially tough time currently


personally i do not always 100% sympathize with people who are overprescribed
the fact you were already on such a huge script, and realized it
AND were offended by him suggesting a dose increase
means you recognized the situation for what it was,

i think that you could have changed doctors, no?
maybe that wasnt an option


im not going to be any more of a dick than that
your other posts make you seem like a good person
and again, im sorry you are struggling right now, nobody deserves to experience that
i hope your med situation is better to your liking nowadays,
i would never want the responsibility of having to manage that much


and like i said before, i doubt any of us were going to change their minds
doctors, even student doctors, have some degree of god complex
and cant be told anything by anyone who isnt a more senior doctor it seems

OH and when I talked about going to a clinic
I was referring to a pain clinic, or if youre into media hyped phrases, a pill mill
Even less reputable, cash only enterprises wont accept anyone under 24-25