How and when does an alcohol habit/withdrawal present ?

[Chip (OP)]

I have been drinking 2 or 3 bottles of wine during the week, with a little Phenibut (bad idea, same receptor real estate) and it got me wondering and feeling like it's not such a good idea, but anyway ...

in terms of "standard drinks" (a bottle of wine may contain around an average of 7 standard drinks), how many and for how long does it take for the most minor of withdrawal symptoms to present - with just alcohol alone ?

i guess that's sweating, anxiety and tremor ? correct me if i am wrong.

i'm just curious so if anybody has experienced discomfort from their drinking, i'm interested in hearing about it and how you got there, in terms of amounts and duration ... from my experience, alcohol is quite short acting so maybe that's a blessing ...

[MoeMentim]

I suspect most people would need to drink real hard and steady, I drink at least 9 standard drinks a night (strong beer & a little whiskey) and I don't get withdrawls.  Picking up a script for anabuse tomorrow.  Scary, not sure what I'll do with myself.  I've got like nothing at all in my life right now and no motivation to change that.  Maybe a week or two sober I'll start to come around a bit but I'm not holding my breath.

[Chip (OP)]

When you say "steady" do you mean daily for months on end ?

The gazetted safe amount of drinks is 4 in one day, I am told.

If I drink 7 standard drinks every 2 days with a day break I should be right ? What do you think ?

[MoeMentim]

I doubt it would take months but I think you'd basically need to drink more or less all day long for a while, how long I'm not sure. 

[Roman Totale]

When you say "steady" do you mean daily for months on end ?

The gazetted safe amount of drinks is 4 in one day, I am told.

If I drink 7 standard drinks every 2 days with a day break I should be right ? What do you think ?

I think you're entirely in the clear.  IIRC, Aussies define a standard drink as even more ridiculously small than the Brits do.  I'd guess somewhere north of a pint (375ml) of liquor -- 9 American standard drinks -- a day, for at least a couple of weeks, would be necessary for physical withdrawals.  I'd say a six-pack or a bottle of wine a night (6 American drinks each) is probably borderline, but I've seen people do that for a long time consistently and then stop without alcohol w/d.  Of course, cravings are a whole different story.  And the fact that alcohol can be damaging (bodily, but also in terms of provoking depression, etc) at sub-w/d drinking levels.

Honestly, as bad as booze is as a general matter, the phenibut is probably the more dangerous substance from the perspective of withdrawals, given all the stories of rapidly escalating tolerance and dependence.

[theSWPK]

Like with many other substances, weight is going to factor in, the only question being how much so. I'm curious about potential cross tolerance from other GABAergic drugs like ghb, benzodiazepines, neurontin. I don't have any recent exp with alcohol, only had 3 or 4 drinking experiences in the past 5 years.

[Chip (OP)]

RT, I am also far more concerned about Phenibut, too.

Alcohol is just something I am flirting with for now.

Nick firmly advised against it and I understand but I never been a drinker in my life and it's not that appealing to me. In fact, it's a cheap option of last resort and not something I really enjoy.

[bonedust]

^^^A cheap option and something you really don't enjoy? I remember thinking stuff like that back when I was 17-23 years old. I hated booze but I was still a drunk almost all the time.
I don't really get involved in people's stuff, but I just wanted to mention that to you Chipper cuz I give a shit about you. Just try to tread carefully.

[Chip (OP)]

Thank you. Noted.

[Z]

Be careful Chipper.  The times in my life that I've been totally clean have ended with me drinking too.  For me personally I would rather be on methadone.  Alcohol can be pretty destructive stuff if you aren't careful with it.


In my experience it takes a long time of steady drinking to get true withdrawal sypmtoms from drinking.  You almost have to work at it to get to that point.  I drink all day every day for about a year before I ended up with mild DT from not drinking.  A family member was in the hospital recently, and we were worried that he would need alcohol to stop him from having complications.  He was the kind of guy that drink a bottle of wine every night for years.  The doctors supervised him and he was fine.  They were totally open to prescribing wine with his dinner if it was necessary as well.


I think wine affects you differently then beer or hard liquor.  This is just my observation mind you.  I don't think that alcohol is alcohol is alcohol.  Maybe the natural fermentation imparts some different characteristics to it, or it's something ancillary that causes the effect.  Maybe I'm crazy.  Who knows.


For me personally, I don't do sober very well.  I need that pressure valve or my dissatisfaction with the world and how I fit into it comes out pretty heavily.  If you ever need to talk I'm always around.

[MoeMentim]

  I wish I could get on methadone instead of drinking, it's fucking awful.  I'm not willing to get another dope habit though.  Wish to God there were other flavors of opiate maintenance for people with treatment resistant depression/anxiety.  It's like I'm now mentally stuck in paws, seemingly forever. 

[bonedust]

^^^Hey Z, I got DTs from wine. My husband and I were box wine nuts. Had that shit chilling on the windowsill in the winter. But yea merlot all the damn time. I would be angry and not be able to talk to people unless I had booze in me then I would start to shake.  It was bizarre. But you're right, it does take dedication. I drank hardcore for years. It got to the point where I was mixing pills at the end. I drank to black-out. A lot of alcohol poisoning too. I thankfully stopped at age 23 and hit the opiates
 I honestly would not have made it to age 30 if we continued.
Nowadays I physically can't even handle a whole beer without feeling terrible. I did something weird to my body. I heard other opiate folks who used to drink are like that too.

And Moementim, I wish something would work the hell out for ya. I'm bummed that you're bummed. It really sucks that we really have no great options. I fucking hate subs, even more than I complain about methadone. I'm pretty much on dope maintenance. I don't get extras too often so that's how it worked out. My husband does the clinic thing, but I would rather be in charge of my fuckup than clinic management.

[Z]

I knew a girl back when that was all about the box wine.  Shed carry the space age bag around and drink traight from the nozzle.


For sure you can get addicted from wine.  I just meant that there are some subtle differences between types of alcohol. 


I'm glad you're doing better now.  I lost my taste for most booze too.  I do enjoy the rare black beer 3 or 4 times a year when the stars align, but otherwise I'm like you.  No taste for it anymore.

[traplord69]

I definitely use alcohol as a substitute for my true love which is obviously opiates.  I really can't stand how it makes you feel the next day though, hang over etc, which everyone can relate to of course.  Idk if its because of my previous experience with other drugs or just being an addict but I can drink a pretty large amount of booze, whiskey is my go to and I need about a half a fifth to get a decent buzz and could polish off an entire fifth if I wanted to get really fucked up.  With getting back on subs and trying to steer clear of any other opiates I feel like its pretty much my only option to have a release as Z said, without the stigma, huge cost, possible legal ramifications etc etc related to the more fun and honestly way less physically destructive drugs like heroin. Sooo unfair lol

Also I've never really sustained a drinking habit long enough to comment on the topic of the thread.  Usually drink rather heavily on a weekend/during the holiday season but never continuously for more than maybe a week at a time

[nurse_K]

My experience is there are a lot of factors to take in consideration. Age. Competitive illnesses amongst others. Tolerance is a slippery slide. Also withdrawl symptoms can be seen ( and felt by the patient) although alcohol is still detectable in the body. Something heath staff not always are aware of and address accordingly. Unfortunatly.

One thing that is not mentioned here is the importance of daily intake of vitamin B´s  ( b complex)when regular and high intake of alcohol.