How Meth+opiate sobriety has left me in a perpetual state of micro opiate w/d !

[Chip (OP)]

So I came off Methadone a month ago and every time I use Meth and a few days pass without it, I start sneezing, get goosebumps, get emotional with watery eyes and have mild gastric issues.

So I never really end up detoxing from the opiates properly.

I think that the overlap of the dopamine effects of both the opiates and Meth has left me sensitised in some way.

It's quite annoying and Meth now has this physical impact on me which in no way did I expect.

I thought that you may find this odd cross-tolerant effect interesting, at my expense.

I should've realised that Meth makes the tapering easier so there had to be a price to pay.

Not supposed to be physically addicting, Meth has become so for me and all due to my lengthy history of opiate use, despite being opiate naive now.

Dammit. I have been thinking about taking a Naltrexone/Naloxone challenge test to see if that has any lasting beneficial effects.

[Steppencyde]

very interesting. like a good friend turning on you.

all these symptoms could be psychosomatic/anxiety from comedown and your just associating them w opiate withdrawal?

hang in there chip

[Chip (OP)]

THANK YOU,  Steppencyde -- yeah, it's real ... my non-opiate-using-history buddies do not get this.

It may be permanent but unless I stop the tweak for a couple of months, I'll never know if I can shake it.

So here I am, no sense of smell/flavour, no libido and only chipping on phenethylamines and GABA drugs -- lots of nothing but mild opi w/d's to make the down days worse but at least my life is comfortable and predictable otherwise so I must count my blessings.

I'd even go to work but the market for old ex-junkie IT workers is very grim.

Still, yay for the "on" days and no significant physical dependency !

[dizzle]

Wow. That's fascinating.

I wonder the mechanism that caused that!?!?

The only thing I can relate to it is the way our bodies repond to certain stimuli that are related to taking of drugs, , but in this case it's the opposite like the not taking of drugs, specifically opiates, specifically after having a dependence on them. Then u took another drug during that period that somewhat masked the effects of opiate withdrawal. Now that drug causes opiate withdrawal.


Absolutely fascinating. Sorrry u are going thru this and I wonder if micro doses of methadone or another opi would help? Like I'm talking .5 mg methadone or something like that??

[Chip (OP)]

it's down to the Dopamine "shared" system that opiates and Meth target.

yes, small doses of Methadone would help as does redosing with Meth BUT i am 100% committed to avoid opiates otherwise i dig my hole even deeper.

i'm sure that 2 months off the Meth would help but after a lifetime of opiate use, i can't see it going away ... this is unchartered territory as most people in my situation would just walk away from drugs altogether.

Hey, i'm even scared of having an OTC Codeine prep, even that's going to have a price to be paid.

Oh well, it could always be worse but i didn't see it coming. it might go away so i'll keep you posted.

no doubt, we must do permanent damage when we compromise our endorphin regulatory system for decades.

BE WARNED !

[Chip (OP)]

oh yeah, i found this and it makes me feel a little better ... but it's overkill ... Death ? WTF ? i have read that in extreme cases, it is possible ... still find it hard to believe but i saw a guy on TV that was close to death after a twenty year run of what i suspect is multiple high IV dosing (at 35 y/o) and was a twitching mess - apparently he died.

Meth is not your old bathtub crank that keeps you up, it's potentially devastating and lethal. Some people can use an ounce a week (5 grams a day !) but i aim for for 150 mg a week and this is what happens on that. BIG DIFFERENCE. Yuck, give me some GABA relief, anyone !

source: http://www.deltamedcenter.com/addiction/meth/effects-symptoms-signs

Effects of Withdrawal from Methamphetamines

The effects of withdrawal are often what keeps an addict using despite the mounting negative consequences in his or her life. Withdrawal from methamphetamines should be done under the supervised care of medical professionals in a rehab setting that provides around-the-clock care. Most commonly reported withdrawal symptoms include:

Intense craving for methamphetamines
Sleep disturbances
Shaking and tremors
Fever, chills, and profuse sweating
Nausea and vomiting
Hypertension
Heart palpitations
Respiratory failure
Seizures
Coma
Death

[Mr.pooper]

The dopamine theory is interesting. Isnt Parkinson's from a dopamine deficiency? Maybe try some dopa drugs like mucuna pruriens, l-tyrosine, etc to see if they help?

Sounds like you could possibly still be kicking the methadone. Maybe the tweak is masking some of the more mild symptoms, Then when the tweak wears off you get mild opiate withdrawal effects returning.

I know you tapered off the methadone, but I wonder if the length of time you've been using, is making the kick longer. When I detoxed a heavy short-acting opioid habit I had those symptoms for a couple months. I'd assume the methadone would be even longer for the body to reset.

Another thing that popped out at me was you mentioned using some sort of GABA drug? What kinds, and how often?

[Chip (OP)]

I hope you are right, words of encouragement.

I have gone through about 30 grams of Phenibut in 2 months so that's cool. GBL, about 10 times, low dose.

I had about 2 pts of Meth two days ago and the sneezing is starting.

[Mr.pooper]

You could be kicking the GABA drugs. I never had a consistent amount of gabapentin in my blood, and would withdrawal for 30-45 days after stopping their use....

I kicked gabapentin along with a kratom extract habit and thought the kratom extract withdrawal was just lasting forever. Turns out it was the gabapentin.

I would feel fine for about 1-3 days after using the gabapentin and then starting noticing some sort of withdrawal symptoms. They were different than typical opiate withdrawal, however the symptoms were similar. Different in that almost nothing none-drug related felt good. Usually while kickin opiates thing like hot showers, exercise, good foods, and sex will make me feel better. While kicking the GABA drugs none of those things really helped much.

Took me a solid 4 months Of being in slight withdrawal before I figured it out. I thought my body was just trying to reset from the kratom. Kept thinking I had fucked up my normal endorphin production somehow really badly.

The crazy thing is I never took GABAPENTIN longer than 2-3 days at a time. And would take 3 days-2 weeks off before using again. And still managed to catch a habit...I kicked for 30 days strait, and figured I'd be good to take some for a day for some flare up back pain, WRONG! Reset withdrawals another 30 fucking days.

Sounds like you are in a combo of both minor opiate, and minor GABA withdrawal.

[Chip (OP)]

I had considered that but the symptoms only start when I use Meth.

It could be a combination of all 3 factors.

OK, I will give it some more time.

Thanks for the warning.

[Griffin]

Maybe the opiate's have made it so that your prior meth w/d's weren't as bad... Does that make sense? Like the opiates were masking the meth w/d's and that what you are experiencing is the normal come down for just meth use... Sorry I have never used meth so my knowledge on the subject is shit, but if you have been opiate dependent the whole time you used meth then it could of been masking the symptoms you are now experiencing.

I've got 2 stories so bear with me for the length, first one is when I got my methadone dui last year I was off methadone for 4 months and was still going through minor w/d symptoms granted I was on 280 and c/t in jail with nothing and no taper. 4 months later I was still getting occasional hot flashes, goose bumps, tons of anxiety, insomnia, and lots of yawning and eye watering. So it could be that you are still having some minor symptoms and adding the meth comedown is exacerbating the symptoms.

2nd story when I moved here to CO I got clean from short acting opies mainly oxy and opana. I used the last day and w/d the whole drive here which was horrible especially since we didn't have a place to stay and had to go house searching the day we got here. About 2 months after I lived here a guy at my job asked me if I liked oxy and handed me 3 30s for free and told me he got 360 a month and knows a guy who gets almost 1000 a month if I ever wanted any. That was the beginning of the end for my 2nd try at sobriety.

I was trying to stay clean and would only use once a week or once every other week but every time after I used I would be in mild w/d for 3 days which got increasingly worse the more I did it and the less time between doses despite being clean for 2 months prior and only using one dose. So even though I was using opiates and you are using meth it could just be the dopamine increase that puts you into w/d every time you use like what happens if you are chipping on opiates.

(PS Steppencyde I really like your name and post, when I am clean if I start reminiscing, drive by the spot, or open my dope box I will start going through w/d like when your dealer doesn't pick up the phone. I think everyone immediately starts feeling better on the way to pick up.

[Chip (OP)]

Yes, that is what I think is actually happening. That makes sense.

If so, more time is needed.

[nick]

A month is no time after a long period of MMT-I'd start worrying about it if it's still happening after another 2-3 months.

[Chip (OP)]

Yeah, you are right ... can't sleep well either.

Got to wait it out.