Subutex WD

[Edhorfin (OP)]

Hi All,
I've been here and at the phjile for quite a while, but dont post too much and am having trouble using the MFSE. Took my last dose of subutex 4 days ago. It was about .4 mg, or 400 mcg. I've been on subutex for quite a while, since "the pod years". Never more than 1 mg per day, and it worked great. I had experienced depression related to interferon/ribavirin and was using the pods to help that, but being a recovered junkie, I got into the pods pretty heavily.

At any rate, the WD from the subutex is physically worse than I thought. RLS, insomnia, some vomiting a some diarrhea. This on day 4. I do NOT however have the soul crushing depression and hopelessness I normally associate with opiate withdrawal.

What should I take to: A. Sleep, B. stop RLS at night, C: lope for diarrhea? Dosage?

I really should use the search but fuck me, Ive been awake for 48 hours and feel pretty shitty.

Thanks
ED

[Z]

Hi. 


I've never taken subs so I can't really answer your question.  I am under the impression that the withdrawl is long from subs.  Are you jumping off on purpose?  Can you get another prescription?  I think that most people go lower then 0.4 mg before stopping. 

[Edhorfin (OP)]

I'm jumping off for several reasons, and I know the WD is long. It is nowhere near the psychological nightmare for me that detoxing off heroin or other pure mu agonists has been. The physical side is sucking though, but once again, I'm not curled up on the bathroom floor alternating retching and voiding liquid bowel contents. My mood is remarkably good, although I'm a bit more sensitive and emo than normal. But I would like to sleep.

[Z]

I have never found anything that helps me sleep during withdrawl.  I have heard lots of opinions like 60mg or more of melatonin or large doses of the psych drugs they give as sleeping aids.  Never worked.  Xanax comes the closest I guess.

My coping syrategy when it gets really bad is a really long and really hot shower.  The heat stops the rls, and if I can pass out right after I can get an hour or two of sleep sometimes.

Good luck.

[Edhorfin (OP)]

UPDATE from edhorfin:

Background info is that a month ago I moved from CT to MA and am now 200 miles away from my sub doctor. Seemed like a good time to stop taking subutex, since I'm not inclined to drive 4 hours to make an appointment every 6 months or so. He historically prescribed 30 x 2mg subutex, with 2 refills. That would last me around 180 days.

I texted him (how cool is that) and told him I had tapered and 4 days post last dose was suffering physical symptoms, the worst of which presented at night, with insomnia and bad RLS. He texted me back saying microdosing was in order. He would have called a script for really as many as I wanted. I asked what he thought it would take. I picked up 2 two mg subutex and crushed them into 10 or so pieces each. So, I took 200 mcg and slept like the dead. Day after (today) no dose. I will continue to try to stretch the number of days between microdoses as long as possible and see what happens.

Buprenorphine is what is known as a "Bentley Compound", one of several thebaine derived molecules invented by a fellow named, duh, Bentley. These include my avatar namesake, Etorphine, which could have been in wide human use if it hadn't been noted as a rhino tranquilizer first. This scared the crap out of the medi pharma and physician community, but in actuality isn't all too different from Fentanyl, which Janssen created and successfully marketed.

All Bentley compounds are powerful as fuck. Microgram effective doses and in bupe's case, long half life.

I still think bupe is an incredibly beneficial drug and a much better alternative to Methadone for people who really want to experience life unmedicated. I gave 1mg subutex to non addicted people just to see what they felt. Some effect, but nothing like methadone or any other pure mu agonist. For me, I was able to travel the world, feel my emotions and suffer almost no side effects, other than some prostate enlargement ( i think).

Quitting isn't for the weak of heart though. Its not fun, but I'm going to carry on.
Ed out.

[Chip]

source: http://www.nature.com/npp/journal/v9/n1/full/npp199345a.html

In a double-blind placebo-controlled trial, gamma-hydroxybutyric acid (GHB) (25 mg/kg orally) suppressed most of the withdrawal symptomatology in 14 heroin addicts and 13 methadone-maintained subjects. The GHB effect was prompt (within 15 minutes) and persisted for between 2 and 3 hours. Subsequently, the same patients received GHB in an open study every 2 to 4 hours for the first 2 days and 4 to 6 hours for the following 6 days: most abstinence signs and symptoms remained suppressed and patients reported felling well. Urine analysis failed to detect any presence of opiate metabolites. No withdrawal symptomatology recurred after 8 days of treatment when GHB was suspended, and patients were challenged with an intravenous injection of 0.4 mg naloxone. The results indicate that GHB may be useful in the management of opiate withdrawal.

me: i use GHB to attain deep REM sleep at night despite using Meth the the day before. apparently, patients treated with Zyrem (legal G/Sodium Oxybate) don't get addicted to their regular twice-a-night doses.

it's the lack of sleep that does my head in the most so perhaps G can at least give you a break from that.

I have been using Phenibut to ameliorate the minor symptoms of my Methadone taper (nearly there) so GHB would be a real handy tool if you can source it. I would definitely try to use it if i were you, i'd even try to see if it can be prescribed.

[Z]

Ive heard of a technique where once you get low enough might be interesting.  Put your dose in a liquid suspension with a week or more of meds in it.  Every time you take out your dose you add the same amount of water back into the container.  Yoy just keep on gently going down and the transition should be pretty smooth.  Slow drops are the key really.

Good luck out there.  Kick some fucking ass.

Edit: autocorrect sucks dirty old unwashed balls on my phone.  I constantly have to go back and fix some glaring and stupid error.  For a smartphone, my phone is pretty dumb.