Shooting subutex, I should know better but plz lend advice

[BRIAN2146]

I'm going to get flamed for this, but you know what the rules are at this particular Doctor, you chose to break them, man up and suffer the consequences when you get caught. The rules might be arbitrary, but you have to realize the envoirment were in concerning opiates. The DEA is tightening the noose on doctors, most of the time when you think the doctor is being unreasonable, it's not their choice how strict they have to be. Why should they risk their license, possibly go to jail and jeopardize the future care of their patients who do follow the rules, all because you feel the rules don't apply to you. I'm sorry if I'm being harsh, I wish things were different but the only way that opiates are ever going to lose the stigma they have is if people take responsibility for their actions. I mean, cmon dude you tested positive for H several times in the past, and they jus wagged a finger at you, and now you expect them to do the same. I'm sure this doctor doesn't enjoy riding you so hard, especially since your a long time patient but you have to look at the big picture here, the climate we are in is getting VERY bad. People who love opiates have to be on top of things 5 x better than normal people, make sure all your t's are crossed and your I's are dotted.

[Zoops]

OK, maybe this is a stupid question, but... What benefit is there to being on subutex vs. suboxone? I mean besides the fact that tex can be IV'd. For someone like me who doesn't have any desire to shoot it, is there any other benefit to being on one over the other?

You can actually shoot Suboxone too. Because the naloxone's affinity for the mu opioid receptor (conversely, the dissociation constant of the naloxone/receptor complex is larger) is smaller than the same value for buprenorphine, buprenorphine will always "bump naloxone off" the receptors in brain cells. Its presence in Suboxone is pretty much useless, even for the reason why they say it's there.

But if you're planning on IV'ing Suboxone, be careful at first. You never know if you've got some weird thing going on in your body where the naloxone would cause PWD. It was never an issue for me. I shot Suboxone (the pills way back then) and didn't get PWD.

That being said, in my personal opinion, Subutex is much nicer to IV, just because it's only buprenorphine in there.

But some people experience migraine-type headaches as a side effect of naloxone. That's what the OP said why the doctor had been Rx'ing Subutex.

[dizzle]

I wish I could buy a billboard and put something like "FALSE RUMORS ABOUT SUBOXONE/SUBUTEX: see www.dopetalk.com/retarded-sub-myths"


Let's recap:

-the active ingredient in both subutex and suboxone is buperenorphine HCL, though suboxone has an additional ingredient called NALOXONE HCL.
 
-While lawmakers and dipshits in the medical industry think adding naloxone to the later deters abuse, the main ingredient, buprenorphine HCL actually binds to the receptors STONGER than naloxone, rendering naloxone useless to the opioid system when ingested IN ANY MANNER (YES THAT INCLUDES SHOOTING)

- I don't care what your friends said, SHOOTING EITHER SUBOXONE OR SUBUTEX WITH A HABIT WILL GET YOU SICK!"

- You cannot get high after taking more than 8mgs of EITHER SUBOXONE OR SUBUTEX, they will both block opiates, and both get you sick.

[DeadCat]

OK, maybe this is a stupid question, but... What benefit is there to being on subutex vs. suboxone? I mean besides the fact that tex can be IV'd. For someone like me who doesn't have any desire to shoot it, is there any other benefit to being on one over the other?

Suboxone is a patented formula of buprenorphine and naloxone, Subutex is just a brand of buprenorphine. Buprenorphine was available before there was generic Suboxone and was much cheaper for consumers than the Suboxone. When I first found this out 8mgs of buprenorhine was $2 or $3 and Suboxone was over $8.

Also, naloxone is known to trigger headaches in some people. And. for some reason pregnant women are told not to take naloxone.

Those are the 3 "legitimtate" reasons I know of.

[pdxpunk108]

I'm also curious to know the answer to this question. I am currently on daily Suboxone and sometimes get sick (like sweating and bad nausea) and wonder if switching to Subutex might help if the naloxone in the Suboxone could possibly be causing the weird sick feeling I get sometimes. Has anyone had a similar experience with Suboxone or found Subutex better for other reasons?

[Jega]

I'm also curious to know the answer to this question. I am currently on daily Suboxone and sometimes get sick (like sweating and bad nausea) and wonder if switching to Subutex might help if the naloxone in the Suboxone could possibly be causing the weird sick feeling I get sometimes. Has anyone had a similar experience with Suboxone or found Subutex better for other reasons?

I don't have first hand experience with Suboxone but how much are you on daily?

[Dog Food]

I never felt sick from subs after being on them more than a couple days.  If ur switching back n forth ya but just sub for some time, id say u got somethin else goin on

[_Enduser]

I'm going to get flamed for this, but you know what the rules are at this particular Doctor, you chose to break them, man up and suffer the consequences when you get caught. The rules might be arbitrary, but you have to realize the envoirment were in concerning opiates. The DEA is tightening the noose on doctors, most of the time when you think the doctor is being unreasonable, it's not their choice how strict they have to be. Why should they risk their license, possibly go to jail and jeopardize the future care of their patients who do follow the rules, all because you feel the rules don't apply to you. I'm sorry if I'm being harsh, I wish things were different but the only way that opiates are ever going to lose the stigma they have is if people take responsibility for their actions. I mean, cmon dude you tested positive for H several times in the past, and they jus wagged a finger at you, and now you expect them to do the same. I'm sure this doctor doesn't enjoy riding you so hard, especially since your a long time patient but you have to look at the big picture here, the climate we are in is getting VERY bad. People who love opiates have to be on top of things 5 x better than normal people, make sure all your t's are crossed and your I's are dotted.

Great response, here's even better advice.....

Go on seeds.  Email me, save your funds dude.  Even if you order a few right now, you can use them with the subs to wean.  Trust that, and tell your doctor to suck a massive dick.  You're worried about the taste of tea?  Imagine the taste of prison food dude.  IDK about you but I'm vegetarian............................

I was shooting my SUBOXONE FILMS, for what reason i don't fucking know, anyway I tried it I never caught a buzz, BUT, I did make an 8 strip last nearly 5-6 (12) hour WORKING days until I got paid.  Then I went on dope, so dude, fuck that bullshit.  Do seeds+smoke all the fuckinnn weed you want!   

[_Enduser]

BTW my girl has insane allergies to Suboxone, I guess?

IDK they make her insane migraine mode, like, crazy head blood vessel popping. So the allergies to Suboxone or Naloxone are real.  Fuck that shit, you already know whats in seeds.   I know, people will hate on me for even making an endorsement as such but don't fucking suffer dude. 

[Dopeless Hopefiend]

BTW my girl has insane allergies to Suboxone, I guess?

IDK they make her insane migraine mode, like, crazy head blood vessel popping. So the allergies to Suboxone or Naloxone are real.  Fuck that shit, you already know whats in seeds.   I know, people will hate on me for even making an endorsement as such but don't fucking suffer dude.

I get a headache about 30 minutes after I take my suboxone as well. Every. Damn. Time. Not migraine strength, but enough that it's pretty fucking annoying.

[Tainted]

BTW my girl has insane allergies to Suboxone, I guess?

IDK they make her insane migraine mode, like, crazy head blood vessel popping. So the allergies to Suboxone or Naloxone are real.  Fuck that shit, you already know whats in seeds.   I know, people will hate on me for even making an endorsement as such but don't fucking suffer dude.

I get a headache about 30 minutes after I take my suboxone as well. Every. Damn. Time. Not migraine strength, but enough that it's pretty fucking annoying.

i get really bad headaches from suboxone as well. doctors have told me its a side effect of the naloxone, but i dont think thats correct cause i get it on subutex too. think its from taking too large a dose of bupe. higher my dose of bupe the worse the headache is. if i need 4mg to stay good, but i took an 8mg tab ill have a wicked headache, if i take a 2nd 8mg, i get a migraine level headache for hours

I'm also curious to know the answer to this question. I am currently on daily Suboxone and sometimes get sick (like sweating and bad nausea) and wonder if switching to Subutex might help if the naloxone in the Suboxone could possibly be causing the weird sick feeling I get sometimes. Has anyone had a similar experience with Suboxone or found Subutex better for other reasons?

i was on subs for like 10 yrs off and on and they always worked great, fine, just like they should. be lately though, every time i start taking subs, first week on them always sucks but afterwards it pretty mnuch normalizes, but lately it hasn't been doin that. i still get very minor sickness symptoms, sweating, restlessness, sleeplessness, gag reflex is on edge and im close to pukin. i dunno wth is up. been wondering if subs jujst dont work for me anymore, or if possibly this is mind over matter situation

[Fluffhead (OP)]

Well, I took the worlds worst fall on the day of my final visit. Broke 3 bones & had to have surgery. I opted getting the last of the tex from the doc instead of lingering on subox. A big part of the reason is because they wanted me to stop taking any form of bupe for near future surgeries.

I've made a couple other posts in the forum with last second ?'s hoping someone could respond inside an hour. I'm still having some trouble learning how to move on this site. I didn't realize that people had responded to this until I thought "man that looks familiar" even though it had a different  posters name beside it?

Anyway, if you haven't read the others. I've had multiple surgeries now  and haven't had subs in 3 weeks. Was honest w/doctors they only gave perc-5s, then after much discussion  transferred to pain management where they started on 7.5s..oh boy ?!? Smh I was hoping to take their short acting pills while the subs had time to leave the body. But they put me on an unrealistic starting point. So, to enduser & others... Off the subs & will/have been using seeds already as backup. Just wish the docs would have been more straightforward with me, I'm about to be in a jam for a few days unless I can find a fast vendor

Anyway, can't move for shit, getting off the bed requires help, pain, wheelchairs, walkers etc.  Im wearin a temp splint. Real cast gets put on in a few days. By the time I got discharged all the docs pretty much hinted at (whatever I have had to add to survive on top off this, they don't wanna know or ask..but please, now I need to chill).  They knew I was going through extreme withdrawal even in the hospital they only gave a pump with a tiny amount of dilaudid.

So I've tried to tighten up. Been weeks since I touched a needle, longer for pot. But honestly was having to add smthn not to lose it w/ a mix of pain & withdrawal. Now they sent me back & got me on the 50mcg patch & a few 10-percs. I've had to supplement. A little with tea to not wake up shitting myself. Tapering down to hopefully I can just survive off what they give me. At this point though, I want to get low enough to be okay from that, so I could ride this out with them legitimately. But, this is real pain & WD's, if I see them & that stuff is still showing  strong & it goes bad. By then I hope to be movable enough to go to the clinic?

I want to work with people but this has been a very rough road. And at many points I've laid in agony hoping that suffering & detoxing to look better on a test would help me. Eventually, I just couldn't take it. Again it's a 2Fer=PAIN & WITHDRAWAL!  -The PAIN (wow!)rods, etc in leg + WD's from bouncing around any normal routine of meds. I asked if they could just prescribe me M-Done- for the pain. That would solve it all. They didn't wanna do that.

They wrote on my appt card a note to look into inpatient rehab. So, try not to make me feel bad. I'm trying but I'm not gonna suffer on purpose. I told the sib doc to have a nice life & these new docs goong from perc5-10 maybe a patch. Well, I want it to work iut but I ain't gonna lay here and suffer. They know it's not enough. So I've had to supplement with tea. Hey, that's better than a needle in my arm..amIright...fuggettaboutit..lol
 I feel like this will all end with my old cllinic anyway so I'm not willing to suffer to hard in the meantime...there's my lifestory/sorry so long I'm still a mess. trying to type this on an old i-phone