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Author Topic: Vivotrol  (Read 8049 times)

Offline Tainted (OP)

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Vivotrol
« on: October 21, 2015, 12:09:04 AM »
so, ive been on probation for the last nearly 2 years and have gotten very lucky, my po tests me monthly for coke and pot only (despite my charges mainly being opiate related) and i have to take this drug counseling class. well the class does 10 panel tests randomly, so i failed once, refused once, and they've extended the shit out of my class but havent told my po YET, but im about out of luck and only got till april left on my probation, no willpower to stick to subs though. every month ive said i would stick to subs for the week leading to the drug test, yet every month i go in dirty and somehow luck out.

well, this drug class is setting me up with a program that gets me on vivitrol for free (since im on felony drug offender probation the state covers the cost) and im not giong tot urn it down because this drug class lady hasn't gone and gotten me violated yet which shes had every right to do for last 3 months, ill take the vivotrol over jail for sure.

now shes said that i gotta be clean from opiates and ill have to talk to the doc about it (she thinks im mainly on a suboxone script.) I'm wondering if anyone here has had any experience with vivotrol? How do you go from full agonist opiates or suboxone to vivotrol? If i could detox at home I'd do that and not bother with the vivotrol. the whole point is I CANT refrain. now if the doctors gonna script me up some benzos clonidine shit to help ease the symptoms ill def suck it up. but i get the impression that viviatrol is more pushed on people coming straight out of rehab/jail and the doctors aren't really gonna be accomodating to someone in the midst of a full blown opiate dependence.

also wondering what the symptoms of it are like? ive gone off opiates a few times in the last 10 years, and ive either always gotten bad PAWS or opiates are unintentionally treating issues i have. when im off opiates, a sip of beer or a bite of something with mushy consistency is enough to make me puke, my stomach/gag reflex goes into massive overdrive. and sleep is next to impossible, i lay in bed all night heart racing wide awake, doze off for 20 minutes a few times. I'm guessing vivotrol isn't going to help manage any withdrawal or PAWS type symptoms since its naltrexone, in fact i could see it possibly making them worse?

and my understanding is you obviously can't use opiates, but you also can't drink or use benzos, correct? I've been scripted benzos off and on for years, they're the only thing that helps me sleep , so does vivotrol block them out too? I don't take them regularly, so it's not like I have to abstain or withdraw from them, but would still like to be able to take them when I need them.


anyone with any experience would be greatly appreciated. I got an appointment to see the vivotrol doc today, so im going to find out either way, but with my experience with suboxone and doctors, the doctors generally don't have a clue what it is their prescribing how it feels how it works, they just know what the drug company pamplet says.
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Re: Vivotrol
« Reply #1 on: October 21, 2015, 03:14:47 AM »
You can drink and take benzos. But drinking won't produce the "glow" that you're after, though. Benzos are totally not fucked with by Vivitrol.
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Offline Tainted (OP)

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Re: Vivotrol
« Reply #2 on: October 21, 2015, 03:21:05 AM »
You can drink and take benzos. But drinking won't produce the "glow" that you're after, though. Benzos are totally not fucked with by Vivitrol.

Ooh sweet, I don't know why I thought benzos are off the table. My appt wasn't an appt, they just gave me a blood work order " LFT, ethanol blood level " I'm guessing liver function test and alcohol blood level? I take it this stuff isn't liver friendly.

Talked to a friend about it, when he was in rehab they wanted people to try it out and one person volunteered. Apparently dude had an allergic reaction ort something and it caused him to have a seizure. Fun stuff.
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Offline Biggavelli

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Re: Vivotrol
« Reply #3 on: October 21, 2015, 03:35:56 AM »
In 10 days I'll be 8 months clean, and I give every ounce of credit to Vivotrol. I did almost 3 weeks inpatient rehab and on the way home from rehab i stopped at my vivotrol doctor before I even stopped to get fast food...because I knew if I didn't, I'd fuck up.

It led to a significantly noticable drop in PAWS symptoms, and subconsciously I knew I couldn't get high, so things that would normally have triggered me in the early phase were no longer even an issue. If you can take SubOXONE, you won't have any side effects from vivotrol. It's literally just an extended release form of nalaxone, exact same molecule/chemical/whatever. Give it a try homie...30 days of not being strung out could lead to a lifetime. Won't know til' you give it a shot.
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Re: Vivotrol
« Reply #4 on: October 21, 2015, 01:56:32 PM »
I've not personally tried it, but I've heard only negative things about it. In fact, Biggavelli's experience with it above is the first positive review I've read about it. I should say that all of the negative experiences I've heard were specifically for opiate addiction, and I'm pretty sure they all went it on it pretty quickly after withdrawing (like less than a week). I do know one guy, well did know (he's dead now), who took it for alcoholism, and did okay on it for a couple months. He cut down on his drinking with it, but after a few months, he stopped going in to get the shot, and then drank himself to death within in a couple months. I don't know, you could try it since it's free (it's normally like $1000+ per month), but if it weren't for the probation, if it were me, I don't think I'd do it.
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Offline dizzle

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Re: Vivotrol
« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2015, 01:39:33 AM »
If you can take SubOXONE, you won't have any side effects from vivotrol. It's literally just an extended release form of nalaxone, exact same molecule/chemical/whatever. Give it a try homie...30 days of not being strung out could lead to a lifetime. Won't know til' you give it a shot.



whoa. what THE FUCK?

that's not even remotely true.

Naltrexone, which is what's in vivitrol, IS NOT naloxone, which is what is used in OD's.


The only thing you're correct about is the fact that Naltrexone is longer acting.


If you are physically dependant on suboxone (buprenorphine), you SHOULD NOT TAKE NALTREXONE, unless you've been off the subs for 10 days or so.

You WILL, I repeat, YOU WILL GET PRECIPITATED WITHDRAWLS.


Biggie, I'm disappointed. That's BAD BAD BAD advice and totally wrong. Suboxone has buperenorphine in it and NALOXONE, but the naloxone isn't active as the Ki (binding affinity) is weaker than that of buprenorphine, so the bupe is what is mainly active.

HOWEVER, the binding affinity of naltrexone is STONGER than that of buprenorphine AND that of naloxone.



let me reiterate. Vivitrol IS NOT a longer acting form of suboxone, it isn't even similar to suboxone, its a terrible idea to take vivitrol if you've got a habit of any kind, suboxone, methadone, heroin, etc. unless you've been clean 10 days minimum.


please look up Ki values for each substance if you wish, verify what I'm telling you, a lower Ki value (measured in nM) means a stronger binding affinity, so keep that in mind when reading about mu opiate receptor affinities.



Quote from: bloolite

MORPHINE (HEROIN)

- μ - Mu = Affinity: 4.55nM Activity: Agonist, Efficacy: 75%

- κ - Kappa = Affinity: 26.9nM Activity: Agonist

- δ - Delta = Affinity: 217nM Activity: Agonist


METHADONE

- μ - Mu = Affinity: 3.16nM Activity: Agonist, Efficacy: 77%

- κ - Kappa = Affinity: ≈500/1'000nM aka Negligible Effect

- δ - Delta = Affinity: ≈500/1'000nM aka Negligible Effect


BUPRENORPHINE

- μ - Mu = Affinity: 0.9nM Activity: Partial Agonist, Efficacy: 34%


- κ - Kappa = Affinity: 0.71nM Activity: Antagonist (0)

- δ - Delta = Affinity: 3.7nM Activity: Antagonist (+)


  NALOXONE

- μ - Mu = Affinity: 1.2nM Activity: Antagonist (-) 


- κ - Kappa = Affinity: 12nM Activity: Antagonist (-)

- δ - Delta = Affinity: 19nM Activity: Antagonist (-)


NALTREXONE

- μ - Mu = Affinity: 0.39nM Activity: Antagonist (-)


- κ - Kappa = Affinity: 1.75nM Activity: Antagonist (-)

- δ - Delta = Affinity: 26.6nM Activity: Antagonist (-)

« Last Edit: October 22, 2015, 01:53:24 AM by dizzle »
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Offline St. Theresa

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Re: Vivotrol
« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2015, 02:26:41 AM »
Anyong and big are the only peeps I've heard had good experiences.  Good luck tainted!
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Re: Vivotrol
« Reply #7 on: October 22, 2015, 03:06:23 AM »
That info is like scary fucking wrong. Not the same things by a loooooong shot, really dangerous post dude, maybe try a little harder to not do that?

Fuck someone's world up taking naltrexone thinking it's "exactly the same" as naloxone.

Ouch!
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Re: Vivotrol
« Reply #8 on: October 23, 2015, 08:21:18 AM »
I'm about to get my 7th Vivtrol shot and it's great! Zero cravings even with free dope in front of me. I got the first shot 2 days after doing dope and somehow dodged the PWD ( but that's not normal.) No effect on benzos or alcohol.
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Offline Biggavelli

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Re: Vivotrol
« Reply #9 on: October 25, 2015, 08:44:22 PM »
I sincerely appreciate the close eyeballing of my post, you guys possibly/likely saved someone from doing something they'd have regretted seconds/minutes later. I made that post hastily and I knew I wouldn't be back online for a couple days. Anyways, thanks for the detailed response and corrections you guys.

My main point was that if you can handle the nalaxone in subs without side effects (migraines, stomach aches, limp dick) you should have 0 problems with the shot.

Now, anyone who has looked into Vivotrol online, read the drug's pamphlet or spoken to a doctor who knows anything about it for longer than 1 minute would know NOT to get the Vivotrol administered anytime before being 7-10 days detoxed of opis (with the exception of methadone...thats a whole new ballgame). Matter of fact, the first safety precaution put in to insure this - the administering doctor will provide you with 7-10 days worth of the low dose pill form instead of jumping straight onto the shot. That way you can take 1 low, short-acting dose instead of being stuck with 20-some-odd days of hell if you do have PWDS or negative side effects.

With my first post I was more or less referring to the people I've heard say that they'd get "unlivable migraines" or "stomach issues worse than death" after getting the Vivotrol shot...but they can handle Suboxone just fine? Hmm...

To me, that's just someone being not ready or flat out scared of changing their shit up, or looking for an easier alternative. naltrexone and nalaxone are both opiate antagonists. Meaning if opiates are currently occupying the mu receptors, they will be ripped off. If the mu receptors aren't occupied by opiates, those two will occupy the receptor site and make it increasingly  hard to get high (based on amount of said antagonist being used). So, if you can take suboxone like theyre going out of style, you (probably - most likely) shouldn't feel any side effects that would make it unbearable. Literally the only physical change i've ever been able to notice was being a bit warm for about a half hour after the shot is administered.

I have plenty of experience with all listed above...and IMO (which is, after all, just my opinion) the people who complain of these issues are literally just looking for the nearest exit since their brain is telling them to GTFO. I never told anyone to go get the Vivotrol shot right this minute while high. You might want to wait until the opiates have AT LEAST left your piss, which is where the second safety precaution your doc will use comes in to make sure they're not throwing you into PWD's. Every person I've ever spoke with who's received the shot, all had to provide a clean (at least alcohol and opiate free) urine sample in the minutes up to the shot. If you test positive for either they will tell you to come back in 7 days and try again.

Once again, sorry for the error. I'm just an addict with some clean time, not a doctor with a specialty clinic.

Anyways, my opinion is still the same - IT WORKS LIKE A CHARM. I'D CONSIDER IT A MIRACLE. That shit has (possibly, quite literally) saved my life by subconsciously knocking out cravings and greatly reducing the "effectiveness" of the troublesome and triggering stimuli. But what do I know?
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Re: Vivotrol
« Reply #10 on: October 26, 2015, 02:08:09 AM »
Maybe it because
Nalaxone has 0 bio availability
Orally.
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Re: Vivotrol
« Reply #11 on: October 26, 2015, 09:48:20 PM »
...and close to zero sublingually.
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Re: Vivotrol
« Reply #12 on: October 27, 2015, 12:58:04 AM »
Its all fine and great if it stops you from doing drugs
but what good is it to handle the underlying facts

Like Mikita said its all dandy if it fixes every thing
well in a round about way that was the jist of what I thought
she was saying in my so you wanna be a junky thread

some of us were born with pain issues that
Herion is the only option
I was a cutter way befor that became a fad

Heroin maintance may be an only option for some of us
methadone subs they just dont work for me
the subs stop my drug use becuse it blocks it
but Ive had the best rehabs money can buy
and they do nothing for the pain emotional

I could sit on a couch 24/7 and there are things
that just aint gonna change no matter what
Its arrogant of me to think that the whole world is gonna
stop and say my bad didnt know about your pain.

plus what happens when you do have bloody pain like a knife
in your head is there a shot to reverse that bind and you
can get some pain relife

More power to you if that works for you
but one of the things about treatment
is its not a one size fits all
I think that is one thing we agree on

and maybe becuse every one would chose
heroin maintance as their option
it isnt an opition.
It will be as soon as them fucks figure out a way to make money off of it

I just dont get. the you must
feel the pain thing
ah no God the only creator
made it
just like the say he hates gay people no he made them (god loves everything he makes)
yes I am a hippy jesus freak if you wanna go with that
satian cant make shit its in the bible
but in our infanite wisdom we
tear it apart molecule by molecule
rearange it and say we have it better
look how well people do on seeds closest you can get to raw opium
go with anything like that coca,epiphedren any thing man has made "better"
even if you want to go with evolution it
evolved for a reason

such the need to impose our will on others
guess its basic human in(stink) and it smells like crap.
i hate when people try to sell me an umbrella
while they are pissing on my head


end rant
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Re: Vivotrol
« Reply #13 on: October 27, 2015, 10:31:43 AM »
heroin maintance as their option
it isnt an opition.
It will be as soon as them fucks figure out a way to make money off of it




this is so fucking true.

All it would take is one pharmaceutical company to figger out how to rename it so it doesn't sounds anything like "heroin" and make money off it.
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Re: Vivotrol
« Reply #14 on: October 27, 2015, 11:29:48 AM »
Does long term use of naltrexone cause any withdrawal symptoms after quitting?
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