Prison and Jail

[Griffin (OP)]

Widowmaker is right, at least that is how things are in colorado. If you fail to give a breathalyzer or blood test then they automatically suspend you license for a year even if you don't get convicted or charged with anything. I saw a show the other day about a jail in the UK and they brought a guy in that had been out at a party, he blew under the limit. The cop thought he had just finished a drink so brought him into jail anyway to test him when they got there to see if his BAC went up.

They have a different measuring system than us. What they measured was like .35 or something and it had to around .45-.50 for it to be considered about the limit to drive. The guy passed the test when he got to the jail so they took him home. I thought that was bullshit because at the time he was driving he was under so it shouldn't matter if his level goes up because I doubt it go up by the time he got home if he had drank one before leaving. He wouldn't of been over the limit either way when he was driving unless his home was 30 minutes or more away.

I was hoping he would blow under and rub it in the cops face but he was nice, and the cop was embarrassed and offered him a ride home.

[Zoops]

Every time this topic gets bumped or brought up, I get the same angry feeling welling up inside my heart.

I DID MY TIME, WHY AM I STILL BEING PUNISHED?! It should be 100% illegal for an employer to discriminate in the hiring process for any criminal conviction that doesn't have any direct bearing on the position applied for.

Obviously, convicted child rapists shouldn't be allowed to work in child care, and a bank robber shouldn't be able to get a job at a bank, but people like me, who was convicted of prescription fraud, are routinely turned down for jobs because of our (nonviolent) criminal convictions.

Of course, one could make the argument that ANY criminal offense indicates some degree of dishonesty, especially fraud, and therefore they all have some relevance to employment to some extent. Like a potential employer could say, "hey Zoops, you were convicted of fraud, so I'm not going to let you handle any money," but I never stole money (at least was never caught doing it!) from an employer, so that's why I say "any direct bearing on the position applied for." There's some wiggle room in there, but what else you gonna do? You can't have child molesters working at the day care center. Maybe just an exception for sex crimes where the victim was under 18.

IDK, but something MUST be done. With the percentage of the American population having a criminal record ever-increasing, this is going to become more and more relevant. I have some serious envy/jealousy issues with people who have squeaky-clean criminal records - or non-existent criminal records, rather. I'd love to be able to work for the Postal Service or get a job as a security guard (say what you will, it's a cake-ass job), but those are absolutely flimmits to me!

Equal rights for criminals who have served their time!

[corlene]

No luck at the food lion bro?

[Griffin (OP)]

I know exactly what you mean zoops, it is ridiculous. Mine record doesn't have anything thats violent or theft so there is no reason to not let me work at fucking walmart or pizza hut. Seriously wtf is wrong with this country, everyone is so fucking uppity and are so judgmental if they don't have a criminal record. Until they get one and they're like shit I had no idea I could have a criminal record for calling someone with no intent or purpose of actual conversation. That is what my first crime was harassment and it got me a misdemeanor.

It also led to my next conviction because if I wouldn't of been on probation then they couldn't of searched my car and saw I had methadone in there to give them reason to suspect I was impaired even though I had taken 17 hours earlier sense it was in my system it is a dui, and since I had my anxiety meds and my blood pressure meds in the same bottle I got a fucking misdemeanor possession charge. They originally charged me with felony possession and felony intent to distribute.

They thought I would jump at the chance of only getting 2 misdemeanors for it and not have felonies. They are all fucking thieving bastards and they always trump up charges so that you end up taking some of them. I can't understand how they can discriminate because you got arrested 20 years ago for some bullshit you did as a young adult. Seriously how do they not understand that you have paid your debt to society and that they shouldn't be able to discriminate.

I think Michigan or somewhere in the north east passed a law saying they can't do back ground checks or they can't use your criminal records convictions as a reason to not hire you. That is how it is supposed to be I think as long as it isn't a sex crime after 5 years or maybe 7 for felonies you record should be wiped clean. You shouldn't have to pay for it your whole fucking life just because some power hungry prick decided they are going to ruin your life so they can meet their quota and the government can get their pound of flesh and all of your money out of you.

Fucking heartless bastards, they purposely make the laws to affect people in the middle and lower class because they don't have money for bail or money to pay a lawyer. The have to sit in jail until the case is resolved which can take years sometime and you will eventually settle because you lost your house, your car, your family, and your job because you can't make money while your incarcerated.

The public defender isn't going to fight your case for you, they are paid by the people who are trying to ruin your life and make money off you. They have literally 500-1000 cases at a time always. They are going to try to get some of your charges dropped and get you to sign a plea deal. They have zero incentive for you to win your case. I bet the only time they do try is if your trying to take it to trial they might look into it more to get you a better deal because they don't want to have to take the extra time it takes to goto trial.

if you do beat the case they don't pay you back for lost wages and pain and suffering. I think if they just took 2 years of your life and you were found innocent they should have to pay the median income salary for those two years plus pain and suffering. So maybe $70,000 for the lost wages, another $30000 for pain and suffering. Maybe they would have more incentive to go after real crime they would start to stop this mass incarceration bullshit that is happening.

I don't know when the tides will turn especially sense they take the right to vote away from felons which is complete and total bullshit! How does him committing a crime make him less of a person to vote. Thats how they keep these bullshit people in office and get all these ridiculous laws passed. What is their reasoning behind not letting a felon vote other than to keep the mass incarceration and cash cow alive.

Maybe when we get to 50% of the population has a felony then we will get to the point of them realizing this shit is stupid and doesn't work. I mean obviously the people who make over 150,000 a year probably won't ever get a felony because of who they know, or they work for the government, or can afford a lawyer if they actually do get charged and aren't buddy buddy to some senator or cop.

For the last 3 years I have had my life ruined for bullshit just so the government can make more money off me and hopefully get me put in prison for the cheap labor and the money they get for the election from corporate prisons. I now have to pay $1000 for having my car parked on the street in front of my house with expired tags. I can't park on the street in front of my house because I can't afford to pay for my tags, so they are going to fine me which in turn makes me have to pay an extra $900 if I want to keep my license or they might take my license and still make me pay $900

[corlene]

Alot of the local gov jobs down here will hire you depending on the job is/does and how your conviction will put them at risk.

So if your convicted of something unrelated to what that job is responsible for, your technically just as good as the next guy.

I read about it in the news paper a couple weeks ago, either the sunsentinel or miami herald

[puppy]

They're  out there Zoops...my brother in law embezzled almost $100,000 and he's working in the same field that happened in and making the same salary...he just got off paper this year I think...

[SPARKSFLY666]

Arrested 5x in 10 years, first two were Juvy cases, probation. Third was at 18, sale of a controlled substance (cocaine) resulting bullet in Albany county jail, paid lawyer, was pretty uneventful. My hometown county jail I was never without support from friends I knew coming in from the street on 30-120 day rotations I smoked lots of weed, took ecstacy and lsd, and wouldn't ya know sniffed my first bag of dope. Was released with some further education on how to commit a variety of crimes and hustles in the street, just UNFORTUNENTLY for me not how to GET AWAY WITH them. Fourth was a possession two bundles,works,switchblade in Bridgeport,CT Bonded out after a week. After a long heavy dope run my habit of 50-100 IV (NYC)bags a day that week in Bridgeport was the sickest I'd ever been at this point in my life, they did not at this time idk if they do
Now, give comfort meds for opiate WITHDRAWL in the CT doc no matter what. I spent the first two days TRYNA tough it out in the blocks desperate to curb the horrors happening inside of me. Before My cell mate some poor guy that had to deal with that snapped and refused his housing on the basis that he'd rather go to SEG then deal with me for one more minute, the CO on that block was also sick of my shit and decided to lock me down instead. Which was actually a blessing, there was no dope to be had on that block at that time so I was GONA be sick REGUARDLESS, I'd rather be In a single cell, as just being in the presence of another human when dope sick makes the anxiety of it worse, at least for me.. I got my bond lowered at my second court date and paid 10% to a local bondsman to come get me, when he picked me up, I was still
So sick, I saw it in his eyes, regret. I wasn't gonna check in, I wouldn't be in court.. But clever little fuckers we are when we can see the door (and even when we can't) The Fifth case came down just about the same time the Warrent hit for failing to appear for previously mentioned case, it was an Assault 2nd, possession of controlled substance (five bundles, 1/4 oz PCP, works) eluding/resisting arrest. Combined with failure to appear and previous possession and a public pretender, I took a plea of 5years @85%. Maxed out in 2012. HAVNT been arrested since. ACAB.

Some interesting prison stories.. My first week in prison after leaving Bridgeport for Walker/macdougal I witnessed the stabbing of another man arriving from another facility. A piece of steel about 12 inches long and tied to his attackers wrist/hand was his fate. I later learned he had it coming. The first of many violent combat situations I'd both witness and participate in over the next four years. DEBT in the streets might get you got, in Prison it is ABSOLUTLY going to be paid, one way or another. Other then not getting in debt it's important to do a few other things when you find yourself behind bars (with a release date anyways) and those are to not let someone take the fight to you, in other words if you feel it coming, it PROBEBLY is. Best to swing first, and I know a lot of people aren't violent, and wanna know the ways to avoid it all together. They exist, I know plenty of people who kept their head down, or were just charismatic enough to be well liked by enough people that they never carried a weapon or got into it. I was young, 22 years old when I stepped into a level 4/5 prison for the first time.. I had a lot to learn, and like the rest of my life to that point I was going to learn those lessons the hard way, I was going to break bones, teeth, lose pints of blood, and spend a lot of time in ad/dis SEG. If you find yourself in jail, keep to yourself at first until you get a feel for things, and then it's best to attempt to learn the ropes within your race (remember the politics and social orders are not the same as the world you left behind) be assertive but understanding the people you are dealing with.. DISRESPECTING someone might be as easy as not being aware of the expressions on YOUR face. Use your wit before your fists, any half educated man or woman is already at a great advantage (this is life advice that Carrys a lot of weight in prison as well)
If anyone has heard of the Cheshire home invasion (Steven Hayes, josh komisarjevsky) that received a ton of press in the fall of 2010, I won't go into their details as they're readily available, but I severed part of that sentence up in Osborne, the lower level prison in somers,CT where Northern is (death row) and where Hayes ULTIMATLY met his fate. Not by lethal injection as CT did away with the death penalty but by "suicide" by way of overdose, or so the press would like the masses to think. I never personally met them, thankfully, I met plenty fucking loony toons, a few masterminds, Addicts to anything and everything, gangsters, thieves, hustlers, smugglers, and a ton of people in way over their heads. I'll close with this, Learn from your mistakes as I have. Treat others with respect, and for those with similar stories.. I know this is hard to hear, but find some situations in your life where you can let your guard down. After doing battle in prison, I found this impossible at first and continued to do battle in the streets. While it didn't put me back behind bars it did keep me locked in the prisons within the mind, and unable to trust anyone after some time, even myself.

[Chip]

Every time this topic gets bumped or brought up, I get the same angry feeling welling up inside my heart.
<snip>

not to take anything away from your plight, i can't get a job mainly because i am deemed to old or not experienced enough with new technologies.

but Zoops, you are a wasted talent and that is the real crime.

[corlene]

It's always the young bucks 18 to 24 who like to start all the bullshit down here. Once you get sentenced up the road those guys are going straight to gladiator school, most but not all will be put out on probation before they turn 24.

As soon as they do ANYTHING wrong, just a technical violation the judge will slam you with the rest of your probation up the road.

Wonder why in florida atleast 70% or so re offend within a year, knowing full well that's where they will ride.

Best place to be in prison or jail atleast in my experience was with the old timers who've been there forever, or will be there forever. Plenty of pharms to be had, they've got established dope smuggling, no bullshit.

Back before the mid nineties you could get sentenced to a year, get out in 6 and a half months, get a parking ticket, and go straight back up the road for another six or so. Two times in one year.

These days, your doin 85% and I hope you enjoy no AC, no actual animal protein (outside of kosher diets), and being forced to work for free. Othwrwise, they'll ship u off to a psych camp and lock u down 23 hours a day.

By the grace of God after my sentence was complete my case was amended to withhold ajudication. Not being able to travel freely and all the good things that regular citizens enjoy would not be possible.

[Griffin (OP)]

Glad to hear you both have been able to stay out, I still feel very lucky that I haven't been to prison. Both charges I got were after I had already started MMT. I kind of deal with them thinking that if I would of got caught doing half the shit I did I would probably have been to prison if not still there. So even though my charges were all bullshit I would much rather take those then be convicted of some of the more stupid things I have done in my life.

I feel like it was just the world evening itself out for me, knowing I had committed to many crimes to have not been convicted it threw a few bs ones at me. I was pretty worried about going to prison this last time, because the first deal they gave me was 2-8 years, but luckily I was able to get a PR bond and fight my case on the streets which gave me the ability to get one charge completely dropped and one changed from felony to a misdemeanor. I am pretty sure that if I wouldn't of gotten out that I would of taken at least one felony if not both.

I am very interested to hear about prisons and jails outside of the United States. I like hearing all of the stories about it here as you all have given great advice if I end up in that position one day, and I find them entertaining. It is stupid but one of my favorite tv shows is Lockup where they goto different prisons and jails and talk to inmates and guards. You can tell just by watching that show how much worse the heroin problem is here because its been on since the late 90s I think.

I still hate the judicial system very much here, and I pray that the mass incarceration stops as well as giving people with criminal records their rights back and stop employers from discriminating against us. I am surprised to hear how many of you were able to stay out after parole, and probation. It isn't an easy task and it forces you into a life of crime or poverty and they make it difficult to stay out. If I get a jaywalking ticket they can arrest me I can't imagine how hard it is if you are on parole.

I really do hope reform comes soon. It seems that the more I read and see people talking about reform the more I see people saying things like all junkies should get the death penalty and how we just need to give drug offenders longer and tougher sentences.

I think I mentioned this but the wife of a guy at my clinic was arrested last year for shoplifting a few shirts for her kids at old navy in the county I was on probation in. She was a heroin addict and even though she told them that, asked for help and medical attention multiple times, had the other inmates asking for her because she couldn't get up and was throwing up on herself, the guards there basically watched her die it was just horrifying to read.

They are suing the county now because they watched her die and laughed at her for hours instead of getting her help. A lot of the comments on the news article I read was from people saying it was her fault and they are glad she died, and that they hope that they lose the lawsuit because they don't deserve anything because it was her fault for being an addict, and her fault because she broke the law. It is disgusting what some peoples views are and it is quite scary.

There have been about a half dozen cases of people dying from neglect in Denver and Jefferson county and how much they have lost in lawsuits and just from the money they would save from not having lawsuits they could afford to not only give people done in jail if they were on the clinic on the outside but they could start addicts on MMT while they are incarcerated and transfer them to a clinic when they get released. It is barbaric that they make people suffer for no reason at all really and that they keep throwing people in cages for victimless crimes.

Here is the article i was referring to about the nasty comments about her death
http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_29264254/lawsuit-filed-against-jeffco-over-womans-overdose-death

This is an article about a mentally handicapped guy who the guards watched die in Denver County jail. It has a very very disturbing video of it just so you know before you watch it. The guards are joking and telling him they aren't going to feed him or give him his meds if he doesn't get up. He is laying naked on the floor can't move. They even have a nurse come in and she takes a look at him and says he is still breathing he is fine then he dies about a half hour later.
http://www.westword.com/news/video-hear-christopher-lopezs-jailers-joke-and-laugh-while-he-slowly-dies-5907547


Here is a bunch of lawsuits from the past decade about police brutality and neglect and wrongful death in denver county jail.
http://www.westword.com/news/18-more-shocking-denver-brutality-incidents-from-the-marvin-booker-lawsuit-6051103

[SPARKSFLY666]

@griffin there's similar articles, stories and lawsuits filed by the family members of dead junkies all over the place. I just saw some Coverage just before I left NY this morning of a local (to me) Schenectady 29 year old female, who died in custody after a stroke (benzo/opiate withdrawl) she was in custody for five days before her death, as someone who's been there, pleading to die, as at that point it seems like a blessing. I feel for her, and the suffering she endured before leaving this world. It's sad. That being said I Don't feel like discussing the politics at play in these situations, at least right now, as I'm just about to close my eyes for the night. But injustice, in the justice system is a subject we can certainly speak on in the future.

[robojunkie]

In my state, NH, they will automatically and immediately (well 30 days after) suspend your license for six months for refusing a breath test OR blood test.  If you do refuse the blood test, they'll just get a warrant, which is a rubber stamp in this state, and take you to the nearest hospital and forcibly remove blood.  I had this happen once, I refused consent, they (I believe are legally required) showed and had me sign this refusal card or some shit (which if I wasn't as out of it as I was because of the accident and being wo sleep for too long and a little too opiated as well as pissed and depressed cuz my CU next tuesday ex wouldn't let me stay over or make a call or drive me anywhere) and then just snuck in an additional blood draw the nurses were doing anyway.

For me at least far worse than the prison time was the fact that my old life was pretty much wiped out (not totally, I still have my daughter and family but my life's work is pretty much shot, or at least odds are way way against me) such that I pretty much am back where I was when I was 18 but with much less time left to get to where I wanna be.  Once I got through the shock of shitbag DEA cunts calling my cell phone saying they were at my house (technically my parents' house at the time) with an arrest warrant, and needed me to "come in" and promptly cuffing me and pulling a knife on my neck to cut off this necklace I had (cuz they said it had white powder residue fuck you), and the heinous seemingly endless fentanyl/methadone/benzo withdrawal and uncertainty as to how long I was going to be gone, and finally got to prison (Yay!  Really that's how it is once you sit in some miserable shitty county craphole for months) and got situated it wasn't that bad.  And I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing, as now if not for the fact that I have children, I don't think I would care all that much if I did get hit again.  Yeah that's fucked up, this was my first bid and I'll honestly say prior to it prison was my worst fear, besides being in a prison that got thrown in the ocean I suppose, but once I got there and got the hang of it time flew by.  I got used to it, was even able to make it fun, playing poker (make damn sure to stay under canteen $), smoking bible paper cigarettes, working out, etc.  Get to hear a lot of crazy and creepy stories, and if you have a unique one that isn't heinous, you'll never run out of conversation material. 

All in all really I don't wanna go back, I'm off parole now, I'll be able to try and expunge/annul my record in two years (so I can stock up on firearms legally) but I feel like a ghost with one foot in this world and one in the next.  Nothing is the same as it used to be.  Not quite dead on the inside, but nothing shocks me anymore and barely anything can get me excited.  Permanent near total numbness, and the ability to switch off all emotions and feelings almost at will is really not all its cracked up to be.  That's where they get you, not the bid itself, what's left after.

[SPARKSFLY666]

 I feel like a ghost with one foot in this world and one in the next.  Nothing is the same as it used to be.  Not quite dead on the inside, but nothing shocks me anymore and barely anything can get me excited.  Permanent near total numbness, and the ability to switch off all emotions and feelings almost at will is really not all its cracked up to be.  That's where they get you, not the bid itself, what's left after.

So relatable.

[St. Theresa]

You know you've fucked your life up big time when the only thing  you have to look forward to is getting the hell out of county and going to the big house.

[Griffin (OP)]

I have heard that from a ton of people that getting to prison and being done with being in county was a huge relief. Waiting for your sentence in a county jail that has nothing to do can be very shitty. Just knowing your fate and being in the process of getting it over with along with having a yard, and programs is much easier.

I have also heard that after being in prison and facing that fear that going back isn't the worst thing in the world. Obviously not very many people would choose to go back to prison but it doesn't seem like the end of the world after you've been through it. There are some people who have been institutionalized and been there for 30 years that after getting out they do something to go back because getting back to what your used to and not having to worry about rent, and being homeless is a huge relief.

In colorado its an automatic 1 year license suspension for refusal to blow or have your blood drawn even if you don't get charged or don't get convicted of a dui the suspension still holds. Funny enough I heard a story on the radio from the attorney that goes on a few times a week. A guy was so drunk that he couldn't legally give consent and even though he signed his consent the case got thrown out because he was to messed up to give consent making the blood draw they did illegal.

When he gave consent, he said he thought he was dying and signing to have treatment for a life saving operation or something like that. Either way it made me laugh that he was able to pull one over the system, even though he did crash into someone else. It seems that is what our system is now, letting the people who actually do something wrong off and people who aren't endangering anyone get the biggest punishment.

I hate drunk drivers especially the ones who knowingly do it, and crash into someone potentially hurting or killing someone. However after seeing how much money they could make the took away the stigma of getting a dui by giving everyone one. A lot of them weren't in danger of hurting anyone else. Now everyone has a dui and it doesn't matter if you get one. They've completely degraded the importance of not doing it and having a DUI because it endangers other people to the point where its not a big deal unless someone dies.

Even then if your rich it doesn't matter if you kill 4 people if you claim affluenza. I have mixed views on the sentencing for vehicular manslaughter. Mainly because my last roommate was given a life sentence for it over some bs. He is in 60s now and he was driving home from the bar and over the legal limit. He had a green light and was turning into his neighborhood going about 10 mph when an off duty cop who was wasted plowed into him killing himself.

The drunk off duty cop was on a motorcycle and ran a red light going 30 mph over the speed limit hitting my old roommate and they still gave him a life sentence. It took him over 3 years to over turn his conviction when he was in prison. He was barely over the limit and wasn't endangering anyone. During the first trial they didn't release the info that the off duty cop who killed himself by smashing into him was drunk, going twice the speed limit, and ran a red light. They made the cop seem like a saint and that it wasn't his fault he died.

It was completely the cops fault, my old roommate was driving less than 10 mph through a green light, and was only slightly over the legal limit. They still convicted him though and gave him life. It wasn't until the cops who covered it up felt guilty about it 3 years later when he was granted a retrial and came forward about it when they were subpoenaed. The cops who covered it up weren't punished at all for putting him in prison for 3 years by covering up what really happened and they are still cops.

It is ridiculous, that they can do that kind of shit. I think that if someone intentionally does something that endangers someone else that it should be illegal. So if you are drunk and putting other people in danger you should be charged. However the laws are bs and the statutes that specify what being intoxicated is don't work and have made it their cash cow allowing them to go after people who weren't endangering anyone.

I also don't think someone should be given a life sentence for vehicular manslaughter. They did choose to drive intoxicated and put other people in danger but it was still an accident that killed the person and they didn't intend for that to happen. I don't think a life sentence fits the crime. They should be penalized but I don't think taking another life is the right thing to do. What do you guys think? I think its even worse when someone is convicted of it when they weren't intoxicated and it was a complete accident.

Its one thing if your driving 100 mph and kill someone but if you make a mistake and accidentally get into a wreck that kills someone you shouldn't be convicted of a crime. I don't think you should be fined for mistakes either unless they endanger someone. If you are driving 8 mph over cause your going down hill and not staring at your speedometer or if you didn't see a sign that lowered the speed limit or that said you couldn't do a uturn on a green light there you shouldn't be fined.

I just think our judicial system is dumb, we have way to many rules, we go after victimless crimes, over incarcerate and sentence people to way to much time. I think it needs drastic change. Kids who are being kids shouldn't be thrown in a cage for having fun. Our juvenile justice system is sickening. It makes me nauseous just thinking about it. Giving kids life sentences, or throwing them in prison over nothing it is so sad. Most of the time the parents are to blame not the kids, and still we throw 500,000 kids in prison each year.

Do you guys think that we should have the death penalty? Do you think that the amount of life without parole sentences that are given out are justified. I don't, I think we over sentence people constantly. I think that if there is a chance at rehabilitation then that is what we should be trying to do. There need to be consequences for hurting other people but the main goal needs to be correcting the behavior and trying to fix the problem instead of punishment. There are to many 18 year olds who get life sentences for a stupid mistake that I think can be rehabilitated.

[Zoops]

yeah, Robojunk hit the nail on the head, I think. Maybe the reason why it seems nothing can get me too upset is that I am experiencing some sort of post-incarceration emotional imbalance. Seems like nothing is the same for me mentally since I did that little bit of time.

Jeez, I can't imagine doing a major bid like 30 years. I met a guy in AA that's been giving me rides to meetings once in a while who just confided in me that he had served 29 fucking years.  When I mentioned that I had done some time as we passed the prison where I served my few years (it's in the area I live in), he just said he "did a little bit of time too."  I was thinking like maybe he did 5 years or something. After about a month he told me how much. Next, and I'm not looking forward to it, I'll find out what he did.  I sure hope it's not some sicko baby raper shit - but I think I have a pretty good radar for that type stuff and he don't fit the image, but you never know...

As a matter of fact, and I just realized this, it absolutely cannot be any child shit, because he and his wife have an adopted little girl from Korea. That makes me feel a lot better about him, that he might have just robbed a bank or tried to kill someone, or embezzled millions maybe.