MDMA IN THE 80s

[Roman Totale]

Even if this is a little off-topic, it seems like the right place to ask:

Did the "Doors and Fours" combo  -- Doriden (glutethimide) and Empirin #4 (aspirin + 60mg codeine) -- catch on outside of the US?

I remember watching a documentary about Bulgarian heroin addicts that was made circa 1999/2000 where they seemed to be replicating this, and IIRC, finding it as good or better than heroin?  @SceneBG  Any idea what I'm talking about?

And then I just read something by a Briton who recollected potentiating codeine with a med called Tardyl, which contained 125 mg glutethimide/125mg amobarbital/7.5mg promethazine per tablet. (Unbelievably, it still seems to have remained a very popular sleeping pill in Hungary, at least as of five years ago.)  So it obviously wasn't unknown outside of the States.

I'm kind of fascinated by the "Doors and Fours" experience. 

And the earlier "Ts and Blues" phenomenon of the late 70s/early 80s, where there was a decrease in heroin quality especially outside of NYC/LA.  I read that the average purity of a St. Louis bag of heroin dropped from 2.5% in 1977 to 0.5% in 1979, which is pretty insane. 

So this situation inspired people to crush up Talwin (pentazocine, the first bupe-style synthetic opioid agonist-antagonist), which was unscheduled at the time, with Pyribenzamine (tripelennamine, a first-gen antishistamine) and inject for some kind of an opiate rush.  I can't imagine it was super-satisfying, but at least it was cheap and easy to get. 

A small panic about it starting in 1978 prompted the DEA to place pentazocine in Sch IV in 1979 and the drug companies to add naloxone to the formulation in 1983 (50mg pentazocine/0.5mg naloxone) to discourage IV use of the tablets.  I guess with this ratio, you hit the effective range of naloxone before you hit the Talwin high, so it was somewhat effective.  But like Suboxone, the naloxone didn't do anything under a certain amount and people continued to inject Talwin NX.  Still, use of Ts and Blues did reach its peak from c. 1977-1981, and dwindled away during 1982-1983.

So circa 1983-1984, the drug warriors got to declare victory and take credit for putting an end to this pharmaceutical menace, at the exact same moment when they were taking credit for eliminating Quaalude use.

It's true that it declined in part because they were harder and more expensive to get due to the changes; in all likelihood it was the publicity that eventually made doctors cautious about prescribing either Talwin or Pyribenzamine, especially to their "urban" patients. 

But the larger part of the "success" came from the fact that Ts and Blues were just no longer desirable.  The stricter controls happened to coincide with the return of higher-quality heroin to the main cities where Ts and Blues were popular, as well as the presence of much cheaper cocaine.  Which, interestingly enough, had recently taken the form of crack and was just gaining its national foothold right at the same time, 1983-1984...

[Snout (OP)]

I found liquid pentazocine in ampules in India a few years back. Pretty disappointing, I didn't realize it was related to bupe, that makes sense now.i totally missed the "doors and fours" thing, I was too young.

[Zoops]

I've heard of combining diphenhydramine and butorphanol (Stadol NS) for a similar effect. Once, I had some pentazocine ampoules, and dissolved a capsule of diphenhydramine with the solution, and injected it IM into my quadricep muscle (the large muscle just above the knee).

Not much of anything. Was only 50mg pentazocine and 25mg diphen., so that might have been it.

I used to take Talwin NX tablets (the generics), when I worked at CVS. And just like most synthetic opioids, it gave me horrible stuttering fits. Meperidine is the worst for this, but propoxyphene was a pretty bad offender too. Tramadol also does it to me.

Methadone doesn't.

Anyone else have this complaint about synthetic opioid drugs?

[Anti-hero]

Never had the pleasure
Or would I want to
But I remember the Ts and blues
and people with these horrid track marks
So I never was tempted to try it
Also I was about 13/14 at the time

But they use to say man you gotta try them
Ts and blues
Shit I waited till I was 16 before I did a duluid
The first thing I ever shot up
Was a bezadrex(SP?) inhaler and some muriatic acid
Made into bathtub meth
Oh to be young and dumb
Now Im just dumb
don't have the luxury
Of being dumb

I also remember when xtc
use to be legal you could buy it in bars
Course I wasn't old enough to drink

And I would love to have
A lemon 714

GLORY DAYS

[Chip]

happy memories of utilising it's Nystagmus^Wiki side effect, something i look for and can't find but goes well with strobes and intelligent lasers in night clubs.

i have NOT had real MDMA for many years. YEARS !

i just am not plugged into the scene much these days but i still try from time to time and i might as well spend it on something that will give better value for money.

i just want those 100+ mg. pure MDMA tabs from the 80's -- is that too much to ask ?

[Zoops]

@Anti-hero - how was that IV propylhexedrine? Got your heart pumpin' did it? That's probably pretty much it for effects though I'd bet.

I used the insides of a Vick's inhaler, which has l-methamphetamine in it (as opposed to the d-isomer which is active). Supposedly, the l-isomer of methamp is 1/10 the potency of d-methamp. So, the 50mg of l-methamp in the inhaler like 5mg of d-methamp. That's quite misleading, because when I swallowed that cigarette filter looking thing soaked in menthol and borneol, I was "jacked the FUCK up," as my buddy at the time said he felt. It was actually a pretty good high, but not something you'd want to re-dose. For a once-in-a-blue-moon type thing, it's worth your consideration for a stimulating ride. CAUTION: Use of Vick's^(R) inhalers is NOT for anyone with cardiovascular disease or hypertension.

[Anti-hero]

  @Zoops man that shit was surprisingly pretty good rush. Very close to Coke. I don't think it's the same formula in them now but we would take about ten crack them open add water and a teaspoon of muriatic acid. Mash it all up then remove the cotton. Heat on the stove in a Pyrex plate till all of the water evaporated. Then scrape it off the bottom of the plate.
 That shit packed a serious rush. Just don't miss because man would it abscess. Still got a mark on my arm.

 Back to the subject I know what you mean @chipper mmda is not to be had the controls on safrole are just out of control. With the Chinese coming up with just about any analog you would think this drug war would end.I mean JFC are they not tired yet of all of this fighting and us being pawns. Someone say checkmate and let's end this fuckng game.

 I don't want to get into all the morals on this but people have been getting high since the beginning of time. Some where along the lines the Puritans won and we must feel our pain. Anything else is just morally incomprehensible.

[Chip]

@Anti-hero, it's still out there but the pills are about 1/4 of the strength of old ones so there is obviously a problem.

[thetalkingasshole]

@Anti-hero, it's still out there but the pills are about 1/4 of the strength of old ones so there is obviously a problem.

Coincidentally methylone is roughly 1/3 the "potency" of mdma
Well, it's afinity for serotonin receptors is 1/3 that of mdma
Mdma has equal afinity for dopamine and serotonin
Whereas methylone has the dame afinity for dopamine as mdma but 1/3 of the serotonin

There were times where I was dead convinced I was on mdma
Only to find out it was methylone

[Chip]

so would drugs like Methylone be potentially neurotoxic ?

Methylone sounds wonderful but is it as good as MDMA ?

[thetalkingasshole]

so would drugs like Methylone be potentially neurotoxic ?

Methylone sounds wonderful but is it as good as MDMA ?

It's been argued that it is not as neurotoxic as mdma
It doesn't have the same potential to  effect VMAT2
However 250 mg is equal-ish to 100 mg mdma

It doesn't push you into empathy the way mdma does
I'd say it's like the recreational version of mdma, whereas mdma is a medicine

[bignasty]

I've never done any ex or molly because I could never be sure it was pure MDMA. I would have loved to live back in the 80s when ex and Quaaludes were still legal and pure. If i ever run across any pure MDMA, I'm going to try it for sure. I've always wanted to try it but I want MDMA instead of MDA or methylone or adderall or whatever RC or stimulant they think feels close enough to MDMA that day or week. How good were quaaludes and good barbituates compared to benzos? I've only had butalbital and phenobarbital but I imagine seconal and the other good barbs are/were much more euphoric.

I remember watching an old episode of Cops on TV and there was a black guy with a black pill on his tongue while talking to the police. They asked him to stick out his tongue and asked him what it was. He said it's called ecstasy man, it helps you have good sex with your old lady and they sell them in the back of Hustler and Playboy and magazines like that. The cop didn't do shit or even say shit. Just ignored it. I was like WTF?!?! til I realized it was an 80's episode when it was still legal.

I hope they go back to ordering stuff outta magazines when they finally declare that the war on drugs is over. Imagine how awesome it was for folks to order H and a rig back in the early 1900's or how convenient it was to order MDMA out of a playboy and have it come in the mail a few days later. My first order is going to be some pure MDMA tabs, fent vials, fentora's, diamorphine vials, bulk hydromorphone powder, 50ml vial of 50mg/ml hydromorphone, 100mcg fent patches, at least a hundred 10ml vials of 200mg/ml testosterone cypionate, some testosterone suspension and testosterone proprionate and sustanon, vials of midazolam, few hundred halcion and temazepam, couple thousand xanax bars and 2mg kpins, 100-200 5mg desoxyn just to try MA, a few 50ml bottles of 75mg/ml demerol, some amps or vials of 10mg/ml oxymorphone (which I've never tried but sounds like it'll make me never want dilaudid ever again) and a few clinic size bottles of 40mg 'dones and the clear 10mg/ml big bottles of 'done liquid for when I run out of the above mentioned better opi's. And I guess some roxies and quaaludes for good measure.

One can dream!