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Core Topics => Opiates & Opioids => Drugs => Methadone and Buprenorphine Maintenance => Topic started by: Griffin on August 24, 2015, 11:04:49 PM

Title: Methadone Side Effects
Post by: Griffin on August 24, 2015, 11:04:49 PM
Hey everybody just had a few questions about side effects from MMT mainly about constipation, weight gain, and low testosterone. Has anyone had side effects come up a few years into mmt treatment. That is one thing I worry about because the main side effect I have is weight gain, and it is something I can deal with. I hope it stays like this but have heard some people had bad side effects pop up after a few years and was just trying to get some input on what they were, when they showed up, and how you guys were dealing with it.


I have noticed the higher the dose the more weight people gain, obviously weight gain is very different for everyone. I was on 280mg for the first 18 months I was on methadone and I gained 90 pounds in less than a year. I have been around 135-145 my whole life and jumped up to 225 within a year of starting MMT which is huge for me. I was around that weight until I got arrested and was in jail for 30 days where I lost 15 lbs. I started dieting and doing light workouts when I wasn't on methadone after I got out of jail and got down to 185. I've gained 10 lbs sense I started back up at the beginning of July. My dose is stable at 60 now but I have really bad sugar cravings all the time not as bad as when I was on 280 but its all I want to eat. What have you guys done or noticed about gaining weight while on methadone and is there anything that helps the sugar cravings or weight loss besides just diet and exercise.

I am about to start doing my light workouts and diet again I stopped after I got sick a month ago. I've felt crappy this last month because I got to the point where I was so hungry I felt sick and eating made me more sick and I couldn't eat enough to get back to the normal feeling. I have finally gotten back to normal but I have been eating nothing but junk food and I gained 10 lbs instantly. I am going to try and go back on a diet but I have to find more foods that I like that are easy or fast to make that are good for me as well. If anyone has any recommendation on dieting or weight loss I am all ears because it has effected my self esteem a lot. I was dating a girl for a little over 4 years until right after I got on methadone and haven't had a date sense I gained all this weight.


The next thing I had a question about was sex drive/testosterone. I have very little sex drive and some of it is due to me being fat and having low self esteem. I am very young but was considering asking my doctor to check my T levels. My dad and all my uncles have low T and are on different things to help and a few of the men on my moms side have it as well. How many of you guys have low T and do you attribute it to being on MMT or opiates? How should I go about getting it tested or do you think I even should sense I am so young?  I have a lot of the symptoms of low testosterone and was wondering if it has been one of the reasons that I had such bad anxiety and depression and a lot of the other things that opiates have taken away. Any info would be much appreciated.


Has anyone found anything that helps sweating? I sweat a lot more now and I work as a cook next to an oven so I am usually drenched when it gets really busy and I chug water constantly. Has anyone had any luck with curing or slowing down sweating? Ever sense I was a kid I had terrible arm pit sweat so much to the point where I would have to go through a shirt an hour. I would have sweat rings the size of a basketball that were all the way to the end of my short sleeve t-shirts sleeve. It all went away when I first got on opiates I remember it was one of the reasons I kept taking them and became dependent because it completely cured my arm pit sweat. The time I was clean after getting arrested it was back in full force and it was super embarrassing maybe all the sweat that I was sweating under my arms is just coming out every where else but its not coming out of my arm pits so its definitely a trade I would make.


The last thing I had a question about was constipation, I had terrible constipation before getting on MMT I was going once every week or 2 and was using every thing to help with no results. When I started MMT it completely went away and I have been normal sense except when I have to take flexiril for my neck it slows down a tiny bit but stool softeners clear it up and it isn't an issue. Has anyone else had this happen to them where it completely went away once getting on mmt? It was terrible when I was on subs as well and I am worried about it coming back in the future. Has anyone had it show back up after a few years or months of being on MMT? It wasn't a problem when I was on 280 and isn't now that I am on 60 but the 100 or so days I was clean I didn't have any regularity I was on the toilet constantly and seldom had a solid stool. I attributed it to withdrawal though because I was having quite a few other symptoms the entire time I was clean.

Any info or experiences you guys have had is greatly appreciated and feel free to add any other side effects you are going through and how you are dealing with them.


Griffin
Title: Re: Methadone Side Effects
Post by: Chip on August 24, 2015, 11:11:08 PM
i had to get to sub-30 mg. to start to feel better.

Now on 20 mg. Methadone/day + 60 mg. MS-Contin ATM (because i fucked up and double-dosed).

it was easy to get to 25 but trickier going under for my mileage etc.

... so get your dose down to a plateau somewhere around 25 to then feel so much better and basically physiologically normal for at least 16 hours, anyway.
Title: Re: Methadone Side Effects
Post by: Griffin on August 24, 2015, 11:20:37 PM
I have been thinking of lowering my dose but I worry about drug cravings getting worse and for the methadone to not block getting high. I am on probation and if I fail a drug test I will likely have to do a year. I am okay with the side effects for that reason but will definitely taper down but more than likely not off when I get off probation but thats another year and a half away. Does your dose hold you the 24 hours or close to it? What were you on before you went down and did you have any w/d symptoms from the drop?


Griffin
Title: Re: Methadone Side Effects
Post by: Seven on August 24, 2015, 11:31:32 PM
I personally believe that most people on very high dose mdone are on it mostly due to the mental part of addiction.  Ill just that at that.

I was exactly like you where i was super constipated on my doc (h) and really had no problem like some do on mdone.  I also had the loose stools when off it and it has somewhat got better with time as long as i eat well.

As far as the sweating,.... good luck.  Something you just gotta deal with ime.

I used testosterone years back when i was on mdone and loved it!!  Not sure how old you are?  I used large doses above hrt as i was also working out at the time and it was a huge boost.  Going to the gym and working out while on testosteron3 will very likely help boost your self esteem and self acceptance as long as you habe time to work out and be committed to it.
Title: Re: Methadone Side Effects
Post by: Chip on August 24, 2015, 11:40:50 PM
I have been thinking of lowering my dose but I worry about drug cravings getting worse and for the methadone to not block getting high. I am on probation and if I fail a drug test I will likely have to do a year. I am okay with the side effects for that reason but will definitely taper down but more than likely not off when I get off probation but thats another year and a half away. Does your dose hold you the 24 hours or close to it? What were you on before you went down and did you have any w/d symptoms from the drop?


Griffin

after a week of some misery, my dose holds me for the whole day IF I DON'T THINK ABOUT IT. it's true. if i am anxious about withdrawal then i feel like i need to dose early.

we all have a "plateau" that is a dose that we have to sit on for longer before we keep tapering ... yours might be 35 mg. but it's a complex algorithm based on your mileage and dosage and withdrawal etc.

if you are on 60 mg. then you can easily drop to 40 mg. in 5 mg. decrements every fortnight --- do it in stages like that.
Title: Re: Methadone Side Effects
Post by: Griffin on August 24, 2015, 11:58:38 PM
I agree about people on high doses being mental, I feel better at 60 mg than I did on 280. I think someone needs to come to my clinic and let people know that because most people are on 150+. I think a lot of them got caught up chasing the honeymoon period of it and then when they got that high decided to stay from fear of being in w/d but could probably go down 80 mg and not notice if they weren't told. I was thinking the same thing about sweating but was hoping someone had a remedy and as long as I don't have arm pit sweat stains in all my shirts I could care less how much I am sweating because that in itself caused me more anxiety which made it worse. High school was terrible I would have to change my shirt after each period and within 15 minutes my pit stains were noticeable same thing with work and pretty much every other social outing I am so glad opiates cured that for me. It was making me agoraphobic and very self conscious.

I am 25 but am still planning on asking about my testosterone levels. I know that it is more than likely to young for methadone but it has saved my life and given me an amazing life that I wasn't able to do while clean. I had such bad anxiety I couldn't hold down jobs or be in most social situations with out having a panic attack. A lot of it was teenage angst but I had a bad anxiety/panic disorder before I was on opiates and every time I was off it was back in full force causing me a lot of depression. Sense I have been on opiates anxiety and depression was almost non existent until my addiction got so bad that I had lost everything and was homeless or in withdrawal. Being on MMT I have the best quality of life I can imagine, I can work goto school and do everything that I always wanted to do but was to anxious, depressed and scared to do. I can't even count how many jobs I have lost from having panic attacks and having to leave or being to anxious to make myself go to work it was awful. I know that most say that you shouldn't be on methadone until you have been addicted for 10-20 years or more without success on getting clean but I feel that I would of just had that many more years of terrible addiction and criminal charges the longer I went before getting on it if I didn't die.


Griffin
Title: Re: Methadone Side Effects
Post by: Seven on August 25, 2015, 12:35:33 AM
Methadone can definately be a much better life than that of trying to score everyday, i hope you didnt get the impredsion i was saying otherwise.  Having to wait 10 to 20 years would be terrible.  The determining factor should be quality of life.  Its just crazy to see people who were abusing hydrocodone or something similar to go on mdone as solution, by and large imo.

The last few times i was on mdone i wanted to stay at the therapeutic dose of mdone, which was 60mgs and didnt feel anything above 80mgs was worth it. 
Title: Re: Methadone Side Effects
Post by: Griffin on August 25, 2015, 11:02:53 AM
You didn't say anything to imply that, I was just saying that because that is the general consensus of what I've read about people who were thinking of starting around my age. Thank you for the info its always nice talking to people who have been on it, I don't like striking up conversations at my clinic though I just talk to the few I know and stay out of the drama. I know what you mean just last week someone at my clinic said they got on methadone to get off hydrocodone. I had a pretty hard time keeping my mouth shut on that one but I figured there was nothing I was going to say to fix that situation.


Griffin
Title: Re: Methadone Side Effects
Post by: Lolleedee on August 25, 2015, 11:42:03 AM
I'm going to voice the opinion I have about MMT that is vastly unpopular, but here it goes.

I think it would be better to get young addicts on MMT sooner rather than later.  Waiting some 10-20 years until your life, health and soul is in the toilet makes no sense to me.  We all know that MOST addicts (most..not all by any means) can get clean but can't stay clean.  We(myself included) tend to occilate between getting high, getting sick, getting clean and then getting high again.  I know for me, I was in a perpetual cycle for almost two decades of using, abusing, being sick, being clean...and I totally fucked up my life and that of those aground me.

Had I started methadone at the beginning of my addiction, I could have gotten stable quickly, THEN been in the shape to do the counseling and life changes I could never do while I was using or in PAWS.  Then I could have tapered...or not. I personally do not see any reason to stop methadone if it is working.  My seizure meds workd too...so why go off something that improves my quality of life and takes nothing away from it!

You mentioned weight gain.  I too gained weight, about 40 pounds, my first year on MMT.  I have since lost the weight.  For me, food replaced the drugs.  It kept my hands and my mouth busy and to some extent occupied my mind.  I had to admit I was using food as compulsively as drugs and it was something I had to work on.  It is all too easy to grab something to eat to soothe whatever uncomfortable thing I was feeling.  I am sure not everyone replaces drugs with food, but a lot of MMT people find they either eat more, or smoke more or gamble more....eh...something to ponder anyway.

I'm so glad that you are out of jail and doing well on your dose!  I still can't believe what you went through!!!  You are one tough dude!!!  props, my friend!
Title: Re: Methadone Side Effects
Post by: Griffin on August 25, 2015, 11:55:47 PM
Thank you that is very much appreciated lolleedee! I think a lot of my eating was compulsive and me trying to replace drug use. I wouldn't be hungry I was bored and eating would occupy time plus my boredom and I had no impulse control. I agree it is something that needs to be worked on and maybe mentioned to the newcomers to methadone so they can atleast see why they are eating more, or whatever there new fix is in hopes to nip it in the bud so to say. Impulse control is something that negatively effects a lot of addicts. It's so easy for us to trade addictions and a lot of that is filling the void of no drug use. I have slowly gotten healthier and realized what I was doing when my clinic counselor and I talked about impulsive eating and I traded the ice cream sandwiches for apples, oranges, or strawberries that way I am getting the sugar fix and eating something a lot healthier for me. It has made an improvement on my mental health too, just working out and setting goals is always a good thing to have in place. I find when I have no goals set for myself and feel I'm idling out I become depressed and more anxious because I am not necessarily happy with where I am at but realize its necessary for me to get where I am going. I know I don't want to be a cook my whole life but it is getting me through now and as long as I continue to try and finish my education and find a career path then I am okay with it.

I think that maintenance can definitely be a wonderful thing in a lot of cases. I kind of wish subs had worked for me the way that methadone has because it seems there is less stigma attached to subs. I tried subs for 10 months and couldn't get more than 3 weeks without using. I was constantly in a state of withdrawal because I was either fed up with the cravings, depression and anxiety and was waiting for the sub to get out of me so I could use or I was waiting the 24 hours to take the sub again. I would be in withdrawal for 2 days to get high once and the subs did nothing for my cravings. That was the point where I really began to spin out of control. I hated that I couldn't stay clean on subs and felt that I would never be able to not use and it drove me to the depths. I was getting way to many subs and they were free with my insurance I had through my job at the time so I had a huge amount of extras to fall back on in case something happened. They ended up financing a lot of my drug use and my life quickly deteriorated. I lost my job and insurance and the subs were $600 not including the doctor appointment without insurance. When the doctor wouldn't prescribe me the generic version of bupe/naloxone that were $200 instead of $600 I could no longer afford them and was pissed at the doctor for not prescribing me the exact same thing but cheaper. I decided to go on methadone and It was life changing never had I felt that I could be a person and work 40 hours a week and goto school and do all the things that I had previosly not been able to do due to anxiety, depression, or drug use. I felt like I was given a chance at life and I had the best year of my life. I went from being homeless with absolutely nothing but a hoodie, t-shirt and shorts(thats another long story in itself) to getting an apartment, getting into school with a small scholarship, getting a dream job, and a car within a year. It is crazy how much we can accomplish once the drugs have lost there grip on us. Thanks for putting in your input I am very interested in the stories of people who have been on methadone or are on it now and how they got there, and the effect it has had on there life. I think the best side effect for me is having a wonderful quality of life and I hope I can continue on my route without any more legal issues and continue on the up and up.


Griffin
Title: Re: Methadone Side Effects
Post by: TheSoundsOfScience on September 02, 2015, 09:53:09 AM
I am on a pretty low dose (40 mg/day), but I definitely am experiencing some of the same side effects you are.  I was like you with the sweating pre-methadone and now that I am on it I literally cannot stop sweating.  Every second at work I am pouring sweat from my head even though it is reasonably cool inside and I'm not even doing very much physical labor.  Definitely the most annoying side effect for me.

As for it affecting my sex drive... Well I would say I had a pretty high sex drive when not on opiates, a decent one when I am using, but I have absolutely no sex drive on methadone.  I'm with a girlfriend of 5 years and it's definitely extremely frustrating for her because honestly I could just completely go without sex ATM which is driving her crazy...  I thought it would be something that would get better over time, but I haven't noticed any improvement in 6-7 months of being on MMT. 
Title: Re: Methadone Side Effects
Post by: Griffin on September 02, 2015, 01:05:15 PM
For me being on a lower dose has brought my sex drive back a lot. When I was on 280 I had no sexual thoughts, no desire to even masturbate or have sex but I had wet dreams a few times a month. Now that I am on 60 mg My sex drive has definitely come back, not like it was before where I would fuck anything with a pulse but now it is at a good place where I don't have an over active sex drive but it is there and I have sexual ideation, I want to have sex but not all day everyday, and it seems very controlled like it is up to me whether to be horny or not if that makes any sense at all.
Title: Re: Methadone Side Effects
Post by: Chip on September 02, 2015, 01:58:27 PM
Methadone's side effect, the ability to chemically castrate to varying degrees can be a useful tool if applied thoughtfully and at the right dose.

Sex is for the young, to quote an old friend who has now since passed.

Opiates can certainly surely mess with your sex drive.

I know exactly what you mean.
Title: Re: Methadone Side Effects
Post by: CHEF on September 03, 2015, 12:57:50 AM
Griffin you didn't ask so I won't take the time to write one but I lost 80lbs with very little exercise, pretty much all diet, if you would like I can write down my diet plan. The key is that you have to take the joy or pleasure out of eating and take pleasure in looking and feeling better. Plus loosing over 50lbs will give you the self confidence to go out and get a girl. If you are under 30 you should want sex a lot, it's just natural. Let me know if you want me to give you an example of my diet, you eat 5x a day so very little hunger, it's a low carb high fat, medium protein diet.
Title: Re: Methadone Side Effects
Post by: Griffin on September 03, 2015, 04:17:27 AM
Yes I would absolutely want to know what you did and your diet plan. I have lost 40 lbs from my highest weight sense the end of March. I am down to 185 and have maintained that weight for the last month without diet and exercise. So I think once I get on a healthy regimen again and stick to it I will be able to drop weight quickly.

I was always around 135 my whole life and being on 280 mgs of methadone destroyed my metabolism and made me crave nothing but sweets. I was impulsively eating to fill the void of not using by giving me something to do to not be bored and I was getting some pleasure from eating. I think now that I have an understanding of all that and am on a lower dose that with diet and exercise I will be back to my normal size in no time.

Like you said looking and feeling fit does loads for your self confidence and I hope it can help me land a girl. The only thing besides the weight that I get self conscious about now that my armpit sweating has completely gone away sense being on opiates is that I have a lazy eye. If I am tired or have been staring at something to long my left eye goes its own direction usually way to the left and makes me very cock eyed and I look like crazy eyes on Mr. Deeds.

Unfortunately for me there is no cure for it and my eye sight and depth perception will always be bad. I haven't worn glasses sense I was 10. They helped a little but I got made fun of a lot for having glasses, they gave me headaches, I never liked wearing them and could never do contacts due to a phobia of touching my eye or seeing people touch theirs. I might try glasses out again if eye doctors are free with medicaid or if my uncle could help me for free next time I see him.

My uncle is a multi-millionaire eye surgeon in Miami whose very well known in the medical community mostly for his help during the Haiti earthquake and his book where he completely restored someones eye back to 20/20 vision after it had been destroyed by battery acid. If there is ever a cure or anything that can fix the problem I am sure he will be the first person to let me know and get it fixed for me.



Griffin
Title: Re: Methadone Side Effects
Post by: CHEF on September 03, 2015, 05:38:41 AM
I'm not a Dr. or Dietician Just an ex Bodybuilder who Looked Pretty Dam Good in His Prime. Like You I Got Fat By Eating Junk. I Eat This Exact Diet And Have Lost More Than 80lbs.

- The key to success with this diet is prep. Make all meals in bulk so you can just open a tubbaware and scoop out the meal, it makes life so much easier. I prefer glass tubs but plastic will do. Don't make the meals for more than 3 days ahead, after 3 days the meals get funky.

- Stop drinking all sodas, fruit drinks, orange juices, apple juices ect. You now drink water. If you must have something with taste drink coconut water. No ketchup/ bbq sauces/ Mayo Etc.

- On Friday I Have a Big Slice of Cake

 Supplements- 1 Multivitamin, Fish oil, 1 Calcium, 1 Probiotics

Meat Toppings- Peppers, Salsa, Avocado, Onions - I use different spices but we'll keep it simple 4 u
 
MEAL 1 - 3 Whole Eggs + Spinach or Broccoli (Salsa is Good Also)
              1 Cup of Oatmeal (Not Instant) + 1 Cup of Blueberries
              1 Cup of Coconut water
              1 Cup of Black Coffee (A Splash of Vanilla Almond Milk is Ok)
 
MEAL 2 - 7oz. of Skinless Chicken or Steak or Turkey or Tuna 
              1 Cup White or Brown Rice or 1 Medium Baked Potato (Molly Mcbutter is Good)
              1 Cup of Any Vegetable (Molly Mcbutter is your friend)
              1 Banana + 1/4 Cup Chopped Walnuts
              1 Cup Black Coffee

MEAL 3 - 1/2 Chicken or Turkey or Tuna Whole Wheat Sandwich (Mustard is Ok)
              Meat Topping Are Ok, I like Avocado

MEAL 4 - 7oz. of Skinless Chicken or Steak or Turkey
              2 Cups Whole Wheat Pasta + 1 Cup Low Sugar Tomato Sauce
              1 Cup vegetables
              1 Banana + 1/4 Cup Walnuts
              1 Diet Soda
              1 Cup Black Coffee

MEAL 5 - 1 Quest Protein Bar - Must Be Quest, Most Protein Bars Have Sugar or 3 Whole Eggs
Title: Re: Methadone Side Effects
Post by: Griffin on September 03, 2015, 10:07:30 AM
I will definitely try some of it and change some things. I don't like some of the stuff on there like coffee and am going to see what my wallet allows as I am very poor right now due to my legal issues and life's bills. I may make some changes to it and try to stick with to the core as much as possible. I always only drink water and cut out all fast food when I started dieting and exercising a bit in May.

I don't want to say my sugar cravings are so intense that I have to have an orange but I feel like if I don't eat an orange to fill that sugar rush than I wont eat anything that day and get very sick from not eating. I have switched all sugar junk food that I used to eat to fill the cravings with fruit and that had helped with the sugar cravings and my overall health. So I may add a bit more fruit to the diet and I have been taking multi-vitamins every day and have been trying to save up so that I can buy probiotics and whey protein. Does anyone know if I can get my doctor to prescribe probiotics so that I only have to pay $1 for them through my medicaid?

I don't know if anyone else has noticed this but wanted to ask have the organic bananas tasted funny these last 2 months or is that me? I don't know if they are out of season but to me they taste off. I only buy them at safe way so that could be it as well. I am going to start going to the farmers market for my fruits and veggies as I have never bought anything from a farmers market and would like to stop shopping as much as I can at large supermarkets but at the same time I am poor and can't afford a lot of the smaller ones and was hoping farmers markets would fill the gap and make me feel good about who I am spending my money with.

I have my first meeting to start supervised probation again now with a private company on the 17th. I will learn how many UAs per month and what classes I have to complete and when I have to start and finish them they usually run between $20-$45 each. I think I will have to take 9 months of them once per week. A girl who got a DUI at my work 2 years ago told me I may have to take an extra 3 months of "therapy" on top of the classes like she did.

The original county that accepted me said that my charges were to petty for them to supervise me at the state level and my former P.O. who I had a wonderful repore with because I got everything completed as soon as I could, and never missed, or did anything wrong said this would be best for me and it is the same price. I'll have to start again on random UAs after 6 weeks of only having to take a free one from the clinic once a month. They are now $12 each instead of $10 like they were the last two years. They want to start me on 3-5 UAs a month even though I haven't had a dirty one in 2 years and was taking only 2 after I got these new charges.

 I am paying 2 different fines to different counties for probation currently. One to the county where I got the DUI. My fines are $4000 but I am currently fighting to get them lowered by $2000, and they wont let me off probation until they are paid in full. The second I'm paying is to the county where I got my first offense in 2013 and I have less than 500 to pay to them. Now I will have to pay $50 month to the private company supervising me at the same time as the other two. On top of rent, my phone bill, car insurance, my breathalyzer, gas and everything else that comes with everyday living I have little money for my groceries.

I am going to re-apply for food stamps because they denied me because they based my income off the last company I worked for(I now make exactly half of what I did). My rent is $75 more per month and I have to drive farther every day for the clinic and my job than I did from moving and getting a new job because I lost my job that I loved and house when I got arrested.

 Hopefully I make it through these next months and find a new job and get approved for my financial aid for school and tough it out and find the light on the other side.


Griffin
Title: Re: Methadone Side Effects
Post by: CHEF on September 03, 2015, 10:48:06 AM
like I stated, that's my diet, it works for me. The dollar store near me has vitamins. I don't eat dairy so that's why I need calcium and probiotics, just eat cultured yogurt for probiotics. Rice and chicken is about as cheap as it gets. Wish u luck.  :)
Title: Re: Methadone Side Effects
Post by: Griffin on September 03, 2015, 12:59:12 PM
Thanks for all the info and everything and I will let you know how it works for me. I appreciate all the help.


Griffin
Title: Re: Methadone Side Effects
Post by: Opus on September 23, 2015, 03:04:10 AM
Down 30mg in the last two months (from 110), and then splitting at 80mg to 40 in the am and 40 in the evening; I feel like a different person.

Nick said in another thread "MMT is what you make it" - it's more than that, it's not solely up to the patient in most cases, MMT is about how well the situation is monitored and how well the patient is medicated according to the individual's needs, and we're all different. If I'd been allowed to split earlier during this attempt at MMT, I wouldn't have had to go up to 110mg (at 1x/day) and I probably wouldn't have wound up in such rough shape. T levels on the floor made mine a really shitty world there for awhile, especially over this summer (I now understand what many women deal with in menopause: HORRIBLE fucking existence), but a week after I split, after coming down 25%: like a light-switch I feel halfway to human again. I can sleep better, I can feel the T levels rising - I'm sure it's still low but def. better, it's not 500 fucking degrees all the time; there is hope again. I almost got supplemental T last week, at this point I'm glad I didn't. At times I would have welcomed a T supplement pretty much regardless, but at this point I go so many things going haywire, I just want to remove everything and try normal again. Fuck all this noise, it's been a ride.

In over 3 years at that klinik, I've exchanged about 6 words with the doc there, and he's one of those docs who isn't interested in listening to people at all. None of the other professionals there seem to have ANY clue about the symptoms I've been bitching about for the last year ("oh that can be caused by a lot of things"), frankly it seems a little weird.

I don't think methadone is a horrible maintenance med, but I do think people should be monitored closely on it, we're not all wired the same, not even close.
Title: Re: Methadone Side Effects
Post by: Griffin on September 23, 2015, 03:22:58 AM
Which do you think helped more splitting your dose or the dose reduction or do you think its a combo of both? My doctor at the clinic definitely listens but he lets people go up as they please. They have to see him for every 20 mgs but all they have to say is its not lasting 24 hours or that its not helping with drug cravings. He told me that most people would be better off split dosing but due to regulations it is much harder to allow a patient to do that. They have to show in the peak and trough test that they are metabolizing it to fast as well as be at the clinic for more than 3 months and have clean UAs for them to be allowed the take home every day. No one who smokes weed can qualify for it.

I didn't ask my primary care doctor to check my testosterone levels yet but I think I should get it tested. Does anyone else have high blood pressure due to methadone? If I check my pulse and blood pressure within the first 5 hours after dosing they are both sky high. When I wasn't taking it my blood pressure was normal after 3 months but after I got back on it even though I had lost 40 lbs it has been really high. My doctor prescribed me systolic 10 mgs because its usually high.


Griffin
Title: Re: Methadone Side Effects
Post by: Opus on September 23, 2015, 04:01:52 AM
It's both. I was over-medicated, simply because they wouldn't let me split (until last week).

A peak and trough is exactly what they wanted, but your average Phleb. can't get blood out of me (once, let alone twice in one morning). I've had all types of self-proclaimed masters try and I'm truly just extremely difficult unless you want to try my neck, my groin or my feet, which most won't (and not that I really want them to).

Really it's kinda stupid to demand a P&T on someone who isn't even trying to go up in dose (and who winds up going UP in dose because they won't fucking split). IMO it's a waste of time & money. It took me way too much fucking effort to get this split, and it created a fuck-ton of misery, but at least I quit doing what I was doing and now I'm motivated to get off this garbage again, so there's that.

Whadda nightmare. Trying to live life castrated on the surface of the sun, I don't recommend it. If I was to stay on, I'd have needed T supplementation, that probably would have fixed a bunch of my symptoms, but that doesn't change the fact that I was needlessly over-medicated when all I needed, was a little less dope a little more often.
Title: Re: Methadone Side Effects
Post by: Griffin on September 24, 2015, 01:59:56 AM
I am glad that you finally got it. There are so many regulations that clinics have to follow that it borderlines on making it harder for people to actually get treatment. Is your plan to do a long taper and then jump off when you get low or move to another drug and then jump off from that? Hope everything goes wells and good luck with it.



Griffin
Title: Re: Methadone Side Effects
Post by: Opus on September 24, 2015, 02:07:01 AM
Thanks. I'm not sure what the long-term plan is, aside from being free of dependencies.

I'm actually considering trying Ibogaine again.
Title: Re: Methadone Side Effects
Post by: monkawat on September 24, 2015, 02:22:40 AM
Thanks. I'm not sure what the long-term plan is, aside from being free of dependencies.

I'm actually considering trying Ibogaine again.

What happened with the first go around chops?
Title: Re: Methadone Side Effects
Post by: Opus on September 24, 2015, 02:34:34 AM
Basically I wasn't able to hold down enough bark for long enough, even though it seemed like I was eating a lot of it. On the second attempt, I definitely started to feel it pretty good, but it just never evolved into a 36hr Iboga ride. My second attempt was something like 25G (known good) bark over maybe 6hrs, but the last few grams I ate too fast, and then puked it up.

Imagine taking some good quality potting soil, drying it out good, and eating an ounce of it when you're already getting dopesick. That's exactly what it was like. That shit's expensive too, I think I spent over 500 on two attempts, if not over 500 it was close.

I was also taking 4mg xnx a day at that point, and I'm pretty sure that got in the way.

If I do it again, I'll do it differently.. Like proper supervised and probably with the HCL so that dose can be controlled much better. I tried it in my shitty little apartment which probably wasn't the best idea anyway..
Title: Re: Methadone Side Effects
Post by: ptbell on October 11, 2015, 08:54:58 AM
The Dr at my clinic I have seen one time for a whopping 90 seconds. He is a greedy ass hat, who is a Dr. at three different clinics that I know of. So most complaints about side effects go through the nurses. Some have been helpful others have not. The low T goes out of control if your using opiates along with the methadone, for me that was the case. I have heard from a pharmaceutical rep. that there is no maximum dosage with methadone, she even stated that she knew of a patient on a dose of 1,100mg daily. I'm not sure I believe that, but I guess you could possibly increase your dose by 50mg a month over a period of two years. But I doubt it, her business is selling pharmaceuticals, so as she says no drugs have side effects, but we all know that's bullshit. Any way there is a thought that you can only absorb so much of any drug over a 24 hr period, some are easily absorbed some not so much. The idea I've come across is that the body can on average only absorb 60 to 80 mg at a time, the rest is flushed through the system. For me I was at 130 and lowered fairly quickly  I had to stop at 68mg that was when I started getting really sick. The thing I found was I really had not withdrawal symptoms till that level, so it was in my mind that I needed that much, I went up because I could. I don't know about all the other side effects, but I found a treatment for sweating, that works for me and afew fellow patients. Cinnamon in 1,000mg capsules, sold with the vitamins, seems to keep the nuisance sweating down. I hope someone reads that and tries it out, because I looked online for years for that issue ,and found nothing. Till I ran into a woman a GNC who gave me that tip
Title: Re: Methadone Side Effects
Post by: Griffin on October 11, 2015, 01:35:28 PM
I will try the cinnamon capsules out and post if they work or help at all for me thanks for the tip. The highest I have seen was there was one guy at my clinic at the mid 400 range and I thought I was the highest in the clinic when I was on 280 but there were quite a bit of people in the 220+ range. I am much more comfortable at 60, the weight gain isn't as bad I have lost 50 lbs sense march when I got arrested and stopped methadone for a bit and then got back on. I have only lost 15 lbs sense getting back on methadone but it is a lot better than gaining weight.

I started june 30th but I still get a little bit of a glow feeling around the 3 hour mark. I didn't have that at all when I was on a high dose I didn't feel anything after 3 weeks. I don't know if I would call it a glow necessarily but I have more energy and can hold a conversation with out getting bored of the other person. I was worried that this dose would stop working over time sense I had such a high tolerance before I started MMT in 2013. I was on 280 mgs until march or this year and only had almost 4 months of no opiates.

When I first started MMT and was going up on my dose I wasn't able to go 24 hours with out feeling some type of withdrawal till I was on 180. Maybe my body just got kind of used to it and my tolerance dropped and has stayed low from my short absence. I don't know why but I like it and I'm happy and comfortable where I am at. I don't plan on doing any tapering or anything until I am off probation but we will see if I want to when that time arrives.
Title: Re: Methadone Side Effects
Post by: Opus on October 12, 2015, 03:16:55 AM
I tried cinnamon and it did seem to help for awhile, but it also seemed like the anti-sweating effects varied from source to source, and even between different bottles from the same source. Seems to me cinnamon can probably help some people, but for me it definitely wasn't a cure-all. I even tried going to this rad herb shop in Berkeley and getting some super high quality wicked fukn tasty cinnamon and it did fuck all for my sweating issues, overall I had the best results from some Safeway top-shelf brand.

I've come to realize that although everyone hates the sweating, it's not the same experience for everybody. Two people might be complaining of sweating problems, but they're probably dealing with very different degrees of suffering (lolpun). As it's gotten better for me (as I've come down in dose), I realize that the problem I had 2mos ago is pretty different than what I experience now. Right now it's annoying, but before it was straight debilitating as well as a bit humiliating when around other people with rivers of sweat dripping off my face. But if you've never experienced sweating that bad from just walking a block in 70 degree heat, it's impossible to realize what it's like. It's a really tough problem to relay across to people. Just horrible.

Quote from: ptbell
The idea I've come across is that the body can on average only absorb 60 to 80 mg at a time, the rest is flushed through the system. For me I was at 130 and lowered fairly quickly  I had to stop at 68mg that was when I started getting really sick. The thing I found was I really had not withdrawal symptoms till that level

We're all different, different metabolisms, BMI, tolerance, etc. My first few cuts from 110 were 10mg drops and I felt that shit *immediately* - I expected it to take a couple days but nope, I felt it that. fucking. day. and I'd be rough for about 3-4 days and then level off a bit, but still feeling it two weeks later; from a %10 cut. The first one wasn't too bad, but the next two (10mg) were pretty rough. Splitting saved my ass cos by the time I was down 30, I wasn't sleeping at all.

If you can knock big chunks off your dose without feeling it, I'd guess you're over-medicated..
Title: Re: Methadone Side Effects
Post by: Chip on October 12, 2015, 07:57:52 AM
Chops, have you managed to lose your long standing benzo habit ?

I imagine the xanax mitigated the effect of the ibogaine in a significant manner.

ibogaine fascinates me.
Title: Re: Methadone Side Effects
Post by: Opus on October 12, 2015, 09:05:21 AM
Ya it's been about a year since I tapered down off the daily benzos, which was a bitch.5. The only thing that made it even remotely tolerable, is that for some reason it didn't affect sleep much, but other than that I wouldn't wish it on anyone. I still deal with issues from that shit, tho I gotta admit to a very occasional mg here and there, but never more than a couple days and then not for weeks and weeks after. Even if I take 1mg after nothing for 2-3mos., I still feel that shit.

*Yuck*

You know that horrid feeling some of us get from shit like chalk & blackboards or styrofoam or teeth/fingernails scraping on shit or whatever? Nasty feeling; imagine that just arising out of nowhere and bad, but for little reason; or from things that wouldn't normally trigger those kind of horrors. That's the kind of extreme anxious reactions that come up in benzo wd. Nasty shit, truly not recommended..

Unfortunately all I gotta do at this point is ask for a xnx if I'm in a bad spot, but I pay for it immensely. I won't miss it when it's gone..
Title: Re: Methadone Side Effects
Post by: Chip on October 12, 2015, 07:15:44 PM
Chops, that's wonderful news !

opiates and stimulants, i can handle but benzos scare the shit out of me.

the main reason i don't take them hardly ever is because i have followed much of your own trials and tribulations.

i am genuinely happy for you ... funnily enough, someone gave me a couple of Valiums over the last few days ... the first day (10 mg.) was nice, the second day was nice too BUT by day 3, i didn't feel it at all ... scary.
Title: Re: Methadone Side Effects
Post by: Jega on October 12, 2015, 07:22:17 PM
You know that horrid feeling some of us get from shit like chalk & blackboards or styrofoam or teeth/fingernails scraping on shit or whatever? Nasty feeling; imagine that just arising out of nowhere and bad, but for little reason; or from things that wouldn't normally trigger those kind of horrors. That's the kind of extreme anxious reactions that come up in benzo wd. Nasty shit, truly not recommended.. .
That's Great News Chops! Congratulations!

Getting off benzos is one of the hardest things you can do.

I'll tell you my daily dose but you probably wouldn't believe me.

Unless you need then, stay away kids then Taper Taper Taper
Title: Re: Methadone Side Effects
Post by: monkawat on October 12, 2015, 08:13:25 PM
So Jega- What is your daily dose?

I'll believe you no doubt- I know you have a big benzo habit and am genuinely curious what you're at if you don't mind me asking it.
Title: Re: Methadone Side Effects
Post by: Jega on October 12, 2015, 08:53:26 PM
The last 4 or 5 days;
6mg Alprazolam (Intentionally)
10~mg of Gabapentin (It can get as high as 15 or 20
And here’s the big one. It averages 50mg in a day Flubromazolam in a day.
"They say" 0.5mg equals to 0.25 Flubromazolam.

But I’ve had far too much Triazolam and Florine is more electronegative [In practice and in personal science], and Chlorine is more of an electronegative than bromine (makes it weaker). But as a general rule a 7-chlorophenyl increased potency more than a 7-bromo.

I'd say Flubromazolam 0.10-0.15 in equivalent with .50mg Alprazolam

Luckily I still have most my Xanax left. Wonder why? And Liquid dosed the Flubromazolam, what I never do for once so I have exactly half left to help taper off

I still have almost my Xanax left (wonder why?)
Title: Re: Methadone Side Effects
Post by: monkawat on October 13, 2015, 12:34:32 AM
The last 4 or 5 days;
6mg Alprazolam (Intentionally)
10~mg of Gabapentin (It can get as high as 15 or 20
And here’s the big one. It averages 50mg in a day Flubromazolam in a day.
"They say" 0.5mg equals to 0.25 Flubromazolam.

But I’ve had far too much Triazolam and Florine is more electronegative [In practice and in personal science], and Chlorine is more of an electronegative than bromine (makes it weaker). But as a general rule a 7-chlorophenyl increased potency more than a 7-bromo.

I'd say Flubromazolam 0.10-0.15 in equivalent with .50mg Alprazolam

Luckily I still have most my Xanax left. Wonder why? And Liquid dosed the Flubromazolam, what I never do for once so I have exactly half left to help taper off

I still have almost my Xanax left (wonder why?)

So roughly- putting it all in Xanax equivalent or Valium equiv. doses- how much daily are we talking?

And I'm assuming you are talking 10-15 GRAMS of gabapentin a day right? Not mg?
Title: Re: Methadone Side Effects
Post by: Griffin on November 03, 2015, 11:06:49 PM
Just wanted to give you guys a little update on my weight because weight gain was the biggest side effect I experienced when I started MMT. I have lost 60 lbs sense I got arrested in March of this year. I restarted on the clinic July 1st and have been on 60 mgs sense. The highest weight that I weighed in at was 226 and I just hit 166 yesterday. I lost about 15 lbs in jail then in the 3 months clean I had after getting out I lost another 5. So I started MMT at 205 lbs and got down to 190 by Sept. 1st.

I first started MMT in Nov. 2013 I was on 280 mg by January 2014 and stayed at that dose until I got arrested and was forced to detox with no meds in jail. When I got on MMT after getting arrested and trying to stay clean for 3 months I was at 200 and I am now very happy to say I am down to about 165. I am very glad that I was able to continue losing weight on MMT sense I stopped dieting for the most part in August but I got down to 190 by the time I stopped dieting.

Sense August I have lost another 25lbs and am very happy about it. I think there is a direct correlation with the higher the dose you are on the more susceptible you are to gain more weight. I think most people in MMT will say that weight gain has been a problematic side effect for them and it definitely was for me. I have always weighed around 135 my entire life. In less than a year of starting MMT I gained 90 lbs bringing me up to 225 which is huge for me. I gained about 10 lbs a month. I am only 5'9 and not real stocky I have always been pretty small.

I still eat some junk food and my sugar cravings are back for sure but not as bad as they were when I was on 280 mgs. I cut out all pop and energy drinks, I only drink water now. I try to eat fruit instead of candy, cookies, and ice cream to satisfy the sugar cravings and hardly ever eat fast food. Other than that I don't eat real healthy and don't exercise. I eat a lot of steak, and I am trying to stop eating pasta and pizza(which is hard because I work at a pizza place and get it for free) because of all the carbs.

I plan to start eating healthier again soon sense I recently got on food stamps. In January if I get accepted back into school I am going to make my schedule so I have an hour to work out at their gym on the days I goto school. My goal weight is get down to 135-140 then try to put on about 10 lbs of muscle.


Just thought I would give a little update and see how everyone else is doing and if anyone has any other tips to being healthier. My main goal is to be in good enough shape to be able to snowboard this year. I want to go so bad I didn't go once last year and even though I have only been about 6 times and am not very good yet I love it. I was at the point where I could cruise down the mountain without to much difficulty or falling to often and hope that is where I start up again. I wish snowboarding wasn't so expensive If I get back in school than I can take out a student loan and buy a season pass and get all the equipment that I have always wanted as well as pay off all my debt so I can build my credit back up. It sucks being 25 and having a 520 credit score.

I really wish someone in school would of taught us the importance of not fucking up your credit straight out of high school. They should also have a class on what to do when you get arrested sense it seems they are locking everyone up for everything. There is so much that kids should know about it. Like don't take the first plea deal, do everything in your power to get a lawyer and not a public defender, do not say anything to the police only talk to your attorney. I am sure those 3 things alone could have stopped thousands of people from having criminal charges on their record today.

Everyone should read the book 3 felonies a day it is about how the average american unknowingly commits 3 different felonies each day. I can't believe how people can still be prejudiced towards felons and people who have been to prison. We lock up more people than any other country in the world and it is affecting so many people it's so sad. Well good luck to everyone I hope you guys the best.

I read opus thread about the horrible health problems he is going through that could be attributed to methadone. If anyone has had side effects that came into play after months or years of use please let me know it is something I am very interested in. I am somewhat scared to ask my doctor to test my T levels but I want them checked because it has effected all the males on my dads side of the family and none of them are drug users well except they are all on anti-depressants. I just don't know how to go about asking and why I would need the test. I also have no idea if medicaid covers the test and how much it would cost. Do they just take your blood and send it to the lab and they can tell what your levels are at or is more complicated than that.

On a happy note I just got under the threshold for being over weight!! I went from obese to over weight and I am now at the high end of normal on their scale. I will have to see what my bmi is when I get bored it is probably higher than what the test says because I don't have much muscle even though I am strong.

Title: Re: Methadone Side Effects
Post by: Griffin on August 08, 2016, 08:52:48 AM
Hey sorry to necro my own thread but didn't feel like making a new one about the same subject. Has anyone found any thing to help with the sugar cravings? I was reading that some nutrient deficiencies can cause sugar cravings and was wondering if maybe methadone is making us absorb less of whichever nutrient that helps us not have cravings. I take vitamins every day already, and try to eat healthier food like fruit instead when I get it but a lot of the time my willpower is non-existent.

Does anyone know if going on a lower dose can help you lose weight or regain energy and motivation and lessen depression? When I started mmt I was 125lbs and have weighed around 135 my whole life, but within a year I was up to 225. When I went to jail last year and was off everything for 4 months I got down to 190, and was able to lose another 10 lbs within the first month I got back on it. I was able to stay at 180 since then but I got on testosterone 2 months ago and it made me feel hungry 24/7 and I gained 10lbs within 3 weeks and haven't been able to lose it back or any weight since then.

!***! Below is a long whining pointless rant about how shitty I feel, and the main purpose of the thread are the questions in the very last paragraph of my post if you don't care to read through all of it. !***!

I have started doing some light workouts and trying to eat healthier but like I said before I have zero will power. The testosterone has given me back a tiny bit of my motivation and energy and is a noticeable improvement over before, but I still have to force myself to do anything. My sleep schedule isn't good I stay awake for 24-36 hours and then sleep for 18 and I very rarely get out of bed, before I wouldn't get out of bed unless it was an emergency and never exercised.

I was also wondering if you guys think I should try taking an anti-depressant? I have been on lexapro, celexa, amitriptyline, wellbutrin, and seroquel, when I was younger without much help. When I was 14 they started me out on them because of my horrible anxiety and slight depression. I had a ton of suicidal ideation and thought it made me worse so when I was 19 I quit and have been against taking them since. Everyone in my family is on them, and I don't know what to do. I am sick of feeling like this 24/7 it's like paws without any of the pain.

Do you think it's worth giving it a try and if the suicidal ideation comes back just scrap it or do you think that if they don't work it will make me worse. I hate being like this I feel like I did before I started taking opiates, afraid to socialize or get out of the house and no inclination to do anything at all except lay here and die, opiates took that all away, but it hasn't done that since I got arrested last year. I am not suicidal though which is something I don't take for granted and don't want the ideation to come back because it was horrible until I started opi's.

I have only told my 2 best friends this but the last day I took an anti depressant I tried to shoot myself in the face and that is why I am so scared to get back on them and why I have always resented the idea. I just want to be alive and be able to roll out of bed it's just I haven't had any motivation to actually do it and I need it.

Do you guys think done could be causing me to feel like this, should I try and lower my dose to find out. One of the bonuses of tapering down and having a smaller dose would be that when I get off probation I will be able to get high off less. If I am still fat when I get off I plan on binging for a month to try and lose as much weight as possible. I am currently on 90 mgs, how low would I need to go to be able to lose weight or stop the depression? Do you think if I was on 50-60mg I'd still be able to get high?

Another reason I think I might be feeling like this is because of my monthly benzo script, its enough for 2-3 days each month, so I take them for 3 days in a row every month that way I don't become dependent. Could that be why I am depressed like maybe I am just resetting the meter and am having paws from benzos that doesn't end because I keep taking them each month.

The past 3 months I have been wanting to quit but I can't say no to a legal high of 30 xanax and 30 ativan for $2 and a 15 minute drive. I can't get my rocks off because of probation and that is my only outlet so each month I tell myself not to and then my refill day comes around and I can't stop myself from making an appointment. I have Zero willpower, to food, to drugs, to get out of bed and I am miserable, but I am not suicidal.

**** Point of the post below ****

Sorry for the long rant, the main jist is should I try anti depressants? who has? what are your thoughts and did they help you? Do you think the monthly 3 day benzo use is keeping me in a permanent state of paws and that I am just resetting the clock each time I take them and my brain isn't doing what it's supposed to because of it causing me to be like this. Do you think lowering my dose will help with what I am going through do you think that by doing so that I will be able to lose weight, and have energy and motivation to leave my bed.

Title: Re: Methadone Side Effects
Post by: Esoteric Anhydride on August 08, 2016, 12:59:04 PM
Yes.
Title: Re: Methadone Side Effects
Post by: DirtyJerzy on August 08, 2016, 01:03:09 PM
Bro sometimes you get so down on yourself. If you had "zero will power" would you be able to avoid dope and all other "illegal" drugs for so long? Yeah if you shoot h, you possibly go back to jail, but fuck that never stopped anyone before.

 All I'm saying is quit being so hard on yourself, your a good dude, so what you like to utilize your benzo script to tune out once a month. Fuck I'd say your entitled to at least that with all shit your dealing with.

this too shall pass.

And on a side note I think the peaks and valleys of your T #'s is probably playing a role in how you feel. At least that what it sounds like to me. As someone with experience using test (years ago for bodybuilding), I'd also recommend getting on sustanon. Really balances the fluctuations out.
Title: Re: Methadone Side Effects
Post by: Esoteric Anhydride on August 08, 2016, 01:10:57 PM
I'm a week into my first shot of sust 300 and I'm really impressed. Sick as fuck right now and trying to switch over to subs, so gonna wait and see how I respond to that before I do any more test, but shit I'd say the $150 for two bottles was worth the benefit I got from 1 week alone. I needed the help this last week!
Title: Re: Methadone Side Effects
Post by: Guts on August 08, 2016, 01:21:45 PM
EA- I've been using a sustanon type blend that's 450 mg per ml... it's indeed awesome :) I like it better than straight cypionate or enanthate.

Griffin - Can I ask what you do for a living? Would you be interested in starting a small business? I have some cool ideas I wouldn't mind sharing with you... stuff that doesn't take too much money to start. I think maybe having something like that could give you a feeling of purpose in life... a reason to get up etc etc. And personally, I'd say no to the anti-ds...
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