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Core Topics => Opiates & Opioids => Drugs => Fentanyl => Topic started by: OG80 on February 16, 2016, 09:55:55 PM
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This is just an idea I had. How long until we see fentanyl (or other smokable opiate) disposable ecigs? It seems like it would be the natural progression for cartels or anyone at the same level of clandestine drug production. You don't need fields of poppies to produce it as fent is synthetic, and imagine the press once the cartels started moving fent ecigs everywhere. Everyone would want them. They'd be the next OC 80's lol, especially in the suburbs and places where there is still an injection stigma. Thoughts? Why it would or wouldn't work? Just something that's been on my mind for a little while....
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Oh yeah! I didn't even read your whole post, but this has been something on my mind lately. Shit, you could make a vape version of a fent/amphetamine "speedball" e-cig. Cocaine, MDMA, lots of different drugs. Heroin comes to mind too. Maybe you could dissolve a gram of tar in a few ml of e-liquid, and voila! You got a nice hit of dope with the nicotine already built-in that so many addicts crave after a nice fat shot.
The sky's the limit with that technology for drug delivery.
And you could vape it right in front of everybody too!
...Would probably be a good way to waste precious fentanyl, but someone who had access to mad amounts of the stuff could try dissolving it in some e-liquid and just vaping that. Might be too good of away to ingest it and lead to some not-so-fun consequences though.
My feeling is that rather than get into manufacturing technology for making e-cigs, the cartels would simply make e-liquid for use in regular vape devices.
On a related note, there have been reports of synthetic marijuana blends containing some opioid compounds too.
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Good point about just the vape liquid being produced, I can see that. The only thing that comes to my mind would be getting the vape temps just right so it doesn't destroy whatever you're smoking before it vapes. Imagine getting a box of sealed disposable fent ecigs lol. One can dream :-)
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Vapes don't always distribute the exact same amount of active drug. With Nicotine that's not an issue but it could become a big issue with Fent.
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I could see it being made illicitly, but I have trouble seeing the medical establishment doing that. The closest thing you will probably see might be something like the nicorette inhalers. I could see an inhaler like an asthma inhaler working, but there would be an accumulation of fentanyl around the mouthpiece probably.
I saw this the other day too: http://arstechnica.com/science/2016/02/e-cigs-shut-down-hundreds-of-immune-system-genes-regular-cigs-dont/ I have a feeling that the more that e-cigarettes are tested the more things will be found about the current way they are produced that is questionable. There is a lot of investment on both sides of the debate about e-cigs right now.
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I have always wondered about using a e-cig or weed concentrate dabbing rig to smoke H. Has anyone done this and have input? I had a rig during my last binge, and wanted to try it but the girlfriend at the time was so anti-H I figured she would kill me or something if she found out I did it with her rig.
She thought I was the devil for doing H even though we ate oxy 30s like candy and that was fine. I usually hid it from her because I didn't understand her hypocrisy and she would flip shit. She called my parents and told them I was doing H after she found out the first time even though we had been on pills for a few years before that. I get my parents not understanding but for users that is just dumb.
She thought I only smoked it too because I convinced her I was scared of needles. She thought the only reason I had needles was to give the people I was getting it with so they would have clean ones and not charge me as much. I will never understand how smoking H could be worse than doing pills, its so stupid. I mean the only reason H was any different to me is it opened up that world of being able to get it pretty much at any time and I could see how that could be bad.
I have always been a bit skeptical of how much safer the e-cigs are I mean obviously smoking isn't good no matter what the substance. I always figured it would cause pneumonia because of all of the extra liquid going in the lungs but that didn't happen. I think Z is right in that we will soon see more medical problems arise with use of e-cigs but I assume they will be safer than smoking no matter what. There is way to much money in it even for big tobacco now for it to go away no matter what problems they find.
As for the fent e-cig juice that sounds like a wonderful idea and I would love to be a guinea pig if a medical company ever looked into it. If it was from the black market I'd rather mix it myself as it is to easy to mix wrong. I assume one hit and your out if it isn't done perfectly. What is the bioavailability for smoking fent? Would vaping it lower or raise that by any significant percentage if done correctly like the perfect temp to not burn it? This could probably done with H easier I assume but I know nothing about it honestly, I would like either honestly.
Has anyone heard of or used H in e-cigs before? I thought it would be perfect for working, and just all around pretty nice. Whats the science behind it, is it efficiently doable? What would be problems that could come from it? The wrong temperature wasting it? Anything else would using fent be any different besides maybe different tempertures? Wouldn't that be awesome an opiate e-cig with different settings for different substances?
There is a $1000 e-cig for weed that measures how much and can use exact temps when vaping ill find a link later that could probably be perfect if temperature is an issue.
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A fella I know who works with youth in legal trouble told me that kids are doing this with h. I assume that the way it's done is with a rebuildable drip style atomizer - put one or two hits on the coil at a time. I can't see it being more efficient than foil though. You know how it's mostly wasted if you don't let it run on the foil? Seems like what you'd get with a lump (tar) on a coil would be the kinda the same as letting the piece sit in one spot on foil. just a guess though.
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Black tar can be smoked well in the vape pens with a simple skillet(ceramic chamber with a heating coil) designed for BHO. Only cost like $10 at smoke shops. Best to have a battery that is adjustable to control the temperature.
Black tar can be dabbed on a dab rig(had to say "dab rig" because everyone calls them "rigs" around here)
Its easy to gauge the temperature of the titanium nail with a digital inferred surface thermometer. Perfect temperature every hit. If you use a dab bong, don't use water.
The lungs absorb faster than the veins. So it's effective for a rush without a needle.
Weed Company's already make preloaded BHO shatter cartridges that get like 200 hits per cartridge. I could see black tar coming in cartridges premixed for a certain amount of hits that just screws onto the battery. Even fun drug cocktails as others were talking about, like smoking a mix of crack,nicotine,heroin, AND FENT in one cartridge with the perfect ratios. THAT RUSH.
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I think this may make sense with fent but I don't think H is strong enough to make this efficient enough... at least not with my tolly. Plus, chasing that little beatle is half the fun! I guess it could be good for use in public.
How about vaping methadone? Smoked, methadone is supposed to be the shit.
Does anyone know anything about how bupe handles being smoked or vaped? I bet it wouldn't be too hard to get an 8 mg strip into a little bit of liquid.
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I wish I could of enjoyed smoking H, by the time I moved on to H I was taking 5-10 oxy30s 3-4x a day. I would smoke like a 1.5 G's all at once and come out with a headache and no withdrawals but never got a rush. If you get some amazing stuff can smoking have a rush with a tolly? I am on 90 mgs of done now and wondering if it'd be worth it to go a few days without if I could get high for a few days. My dream is to get some completely untouched half Kilo or even an oz to myself but that probably wont ever happen but it's on the bucket list.
I have extra money right now so I'd like to get $500 worth of cheap 30s or bth if I can find any that's really good. I haven't used at all since I first got on mmt in Nov. 2013, so I have no idea if being on that much done will take away any chance of a high . If I stop taking done for 2-3 days before dosing would I be able to feel it like normal for someone with a high tolly? I'd rather not IV because I still have a needle fixation even though I haven't shot up in 28 months and I still want to and feel like a weird feeling in my veins like I want to poke them.
I always figured if I lived on the east coast I would of gotten into H a lot harder because I wouldn't of had to do needles at first. Sorry for the complete derail! Can you smoke ecp? What is the prep for it and could it be done with an e-cig with minimum prep or even off foil? What is the difference in B/A for smoking vs snorting ecp? I am going to make a trip to the east coast when I get off paper so that I can knock ecp off the bucket list. I will definitely I/V the majority of it but would like to try snorting and smoking just because.
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This is just an idea I had. How long until we see fentanyl (or other smokable opiate) disposable ecigs? It seems like it would be the natural progression for cartels or anyone at the same level of clandestine drug production. You don't need fields of poppies to produce it as fent is synthetic, and imagine the press once the cartels started moving fent ecigs everywhere. Everyone would want them. They'd be the next OC 80's lol, especially in the suburbs and places where there is still an injection stigma. Thoughts? Why it would or wouldn't work? Just something that's been on my mind for a little while....
As long as it was done with a standardized concentration (not one that varied wildly in unmarked vials from dealer to dealer or one where one puff is an OD) I think that would be an awesome idea and would drastically cut down on OD's. This would be a million times better than all these fake oxys and spiked dope or outright fake dope that causes so many OD's.
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Yes, you can smoke ecp but it's sort of a waste. Way better off sniffing it. Or slamming it.
I've heard around here that 80mg of done is the beginning of blocking dose territory. Pretty safe to say if you're on 90mg, you're not going to get much from dope.
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That sucks! I knew I should of toughed it out and stayed on 60! So even if I didn't dose any done for 3 days is getting high attainable after that? I wonder how high my tolly is now I am hoping it is lower than it was before I got arrested cause I just want to get high again after I get off paper I don't think I am done with it quite yet.
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@Griffin I'm on 120 mgs of methadone and I can still get high. It takes a decent amount though... like less than half a gram is pointless. You'll probably get a little rush but that's about it. I need to shoot close to a gram to get high like I want to. Good part is, with big shots like that, it lasts a while and is quite the rush. That's just me though... please go slow. Oh yeah, benzos help too.
As far as smoking powder, Ive done it quite a bit and it works and runs just as good as tar IMO. I know a lot of people say it doesn't work well for them so I don't know if the stuff I get works better because of a particular cut. Although, I've gotten a decent amount of stuff off of Silk Road back in my snorting/smoking days and powder from different places seemed to smoke good too. I mean, just like tar, some shit smokes better or cleaner than other shit but it all ran on foil. One thing I've found key to making it run right is it must be rocked up. It won't really work if you dump a pile of powder on the foil. It will burn up very quickly.
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How long did you have to wait to not take your done before you were able to get high @Guts?
I really want to find to find out how much an ounce, 4 oz, or a 1/2 pound of bth would be. Or how expensive 100 grams, a quarter, or half kilo of ecp price would be. What would be the prices for something like that? How much would a half kilo be of almost 100% pure stuff thats ecp and how much would it be for BTH? Do you think you'd be able to get it without being shot? What would be the best way of trying to find that amount of uncut goodness?
I want to get a large quantity of something that is as close to pure as I am ever going to see. Do you think at those weights you would be able to get product that is close to pure? That is really what I want 100-500 gs of pure ECP all for myself I'd rather do this with ECP but if I were looking into using it for e-cigs then I wouldn't mind getting BTH.
What would need to be done to make using ecp or bth in a E-cig or something like a weed dabbing rig possible? Is it possible for it to be done efficiently and what all would need to be done to make that happening? So if you used a water bong to smoke bth would it have the same effect as if you were smoking crack that all of the coke or dope would get stuck in the water and you wouldn't smoke any of it out?
Do you think it's possible to get almost 100%pure stuff without buying a half kilo? How would I do that? Know someone who is getting really good stuff and see about going up the chain?
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I don't wait at all... I just take my methadone like normal.
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That's been my experience with methadone too. There is no real blocking dose. Just a large boost in tolerance. The problem is that it can be dangerous to take huge doses to try to bust through the raised tolerance that you now have. That's the way that many people OD.
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...How about vaping methadone? Smoked, methadone is supposed to be the shit...
I thought I'd necro this thread, only just having read it to throw my 2c to this question - the bioavailability of Methadone orally is virtually 100% as it is (although it takes awhile to work), and I used to inject 150mg of M every day, back in the day, and while it kept me well (as in not withdrawing), it was still pretty 'meh', and so I can't see any reason why smoking it would 'be the shit' IMO.
Also, as for smoking ECP - that's #4 isn't it? Which means that it's Diamorphine in some kind of salt form? You wouldn't get very far smoking that as it is, you'd be better off freebasing it first, and making it into something more akin to #3 which is better suited to smoking (actually vaporising).
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...How about vaping methadone? Smoked, methadone is supposed to be the shit...
I thought I'd necro this thread, only just having read it to throw my 2c to this question - the bioavailability of Methadone orally is virtually 100% as it is (although it takes awhile to work), and I used to inject 150mg of M every day, back in the day, and while it kept me well (as in not withdrawing), it was still pretty 'meh', and so I can't see any reason why smoking it would 'be the shit' IMO.
Vaping freebase methadone was originally reported on by Borohydride, the crochety SOB he is.
His hypothesis was that MD is slow to 'come on' orally due to it's high lipid-solubility, but he thought that freebasing methadone would raise blood concentrations so quickly that the MD would concentrate in the brain and bring big fat rushes (why this doesn't also work with IV done, he never explained).
The problem with testing this, is that crystals of base MD big enough to filter are apparently rather difficult to grow. I've tried it in the freezer and also by heat cycling the mother liquor, but all I get are super super fine, gooey xtals that are soaked up in the paper filters. It's very easy to FB the MD, the problem is collecting it. I have smoked the filter medium and very small amounts of collected xtal-goo, there definitely seems to be something to it, the harsh, nasty-ass vapors taste very strong and numb the lips, mouth and throat tremendously.
I think the base MD is soluble in ether, one could maybe extract the mother liquor with that or maybe chcl3. I never got that far.
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I dunno man, it sounds like bullshit to me - after all, as you asked yourself - why would vaporising it be any better than IVing it, in that case? Makes no sense.
This wouldn't be the first time that Boro has spun a line of bullshit from what I can gather...
I've looked into being able to extract M from carriers like tablets, linctus etc. in the past, and from what I could gather, it's a bit of a bastard of a compound to try and isolate, freebase and purify - it tends to want to form into gooey hard to deal with masses (as you reported finding for yourself), so I dropped my research and efforts into it. Also because M is (IMO) very *meh* even when IVed as a pure pharmaceutical, designed for administration by that route.
EDIT - And, yeah - from what I remember from looking into it, the freebase could be collected and purified if you had access to some funky, not exactly everyday solvents.
Also, it makes sense what you report upon attempting to vaporise some of the M goo - it's quite a caustic compound apparently - even injecting the pharmaceutical (wet) ampules was very hard on the veins, and this was quite well known amongst people who were familiar with it.
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I've heard around here that 80mg of done is the beginning of blocking dose territory. Pretty safe to say if you're on 90mg, you're not going to get much from dope.
This is entirely false. Methadone doesn't "block" heroin, it simply jacks tolerance. If one has good quality dope, it's more than possible to push past an 80mg+ methadone tolerance. Ask me how I know..
@Hooman : I dunno man, it sounds like bullshit to me - after all, as you asked yourself - why would vaporising it be any better than IVing it, in that case?
Possibly because the route to the brain is quite a bit quicker via the lungs than IV? The times I did manage to get a hit of FB MD, it did seem to work a bit better than IV; but it is true: Boro was largely full of shit and his posts should be taken with a grain of poo.
Also, yes, caustic as FUCK and I really don't want to imagine what lungfuls of methadone-base-vapor would do to lung tissue. Ugly!
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@Hooman : I dunno man, it sounds like bullshit to me - after all, as you asked yourself - why would vaporising it be any better than IVing it, in that case?
Possibly because the route to the brain is quite a bit quicker via the lungs than IV?
Is it, though? Because if you think about it, even travelling through the lungs, it still has to be absorbed and diffuse into the bloodstream, reach the BBB, cross it and then find the receptors - how could that be noticeably faster than injecting the drug *straight* into the bloodstream?
Weird thing is as well is that, even when you inject fairly large amounts like 150mg from pharmaceutical ampules of the stuff, it *still* seems to take a few minutes to 'ramp up' and do it's thing. I just don't think that Methadone is much of a 'rush' drug, no matter how you take it (unless you IV/vape some when you're clucking your tits off, I suppose - but then again, they're always the best kind of hits, aren't they? 8) ).
Also, yes, caustic as FUCK and I really don't want to imagine what lungfuls of methadone-base-vapor would do to lung tissue. Ugly!
That, and it does a number on veins as well - I remember that lots of people who'd been on it for some time all mostly had these weird white 'scars' that seemed to start at the IV site and travel some small distance up where the vein track lay. :o
When I hear/read about people injecting fucking *linctus* and the like, it makes me shudder like not much else can... :-\
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I'm quite sure that not all of the Methadone gets processed by the receptors and circulates in your blood stream until it can get on, achieving a sort of time-release effect.
that's why there is no rush - and man have I tried.
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I'm quite sure that not all of the Methadone gets processed by the receptors and circulates in your blood stream until it can get on, achieving a sort of time-release effect....
Hmm - I'm not too sure about that - I think you might be thinking of M's really long half-life and the fact that its lipophilicity means that it can tend to accumulate in the fatty tissues which does cause something of a 'reservoir' effect in people who use it regularly.
I'm not sure that will have much of an effect on someone who is, say, just taking one dose of it.
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@hoonan - smoking is a faster roa than iv. When you inject in a vien the substance travels to the heart, then to the lungs before taking the arteries to the brain. With smoking the substance bypasses the trip through the heart & to the lungs.
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What's the difference though, really? Like 5-10 seconds, tops, maybe?
There's also the time needed for the substance to diffuse through the alveoli which isn't instant...
And also that the bioavailability of practically *everything* is higher when injecting vs smoking/vaporising - you'd have to weigh that against the rush as well, I guess.
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IV -> Heart -> lungs -> Heart -> Brain
Smoked (lungs) -> Heart -> Brain
If you've done both properly you should get it, a solid crack hit is definitely faster. IMO the limiting factor really becomes that you can simply put more in a rig, not that it's hard to od smoking coke tho, cos it's not (I won't do it anymore).
I see your point about dissipation into the blood, but would that really be less than how a ml of liquid would dissipate after 2 passes through the heart? I wouldn't bet either way..
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Yeah, I see that, I guess...
It always cracked (LOL) me up to see people injecting crack (usually alongside H) - something I never got into, and never even bothered trying AFAICR.
I always thought that if it was worth freebasing coke to smoke it (which it undoubtedly is), then surely isn't it worth it to turn your coke into a salt form before you dig it?
Mind you, if they were having it alongside H, they will have been adding Citric Acid (usually) to salt & dissolve the H, so it probably formed Cocaine Citrate I guess?
Still not good for anyone's veins, though.... *shudder*
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About a week ago I picked up this atomizer for mj concentrates, It's called the saionara, designed to be used on regular mod style e-cigs. I've tried everything I could think of for dabs on the go, making my own juice, setting up drip-style atomizer for concentrates, portable tiny dab rigs (nector collector style)etc... this surpasses everything so far. There were dowsides to everything i tried, can't think of one with this. Before the needle i smoked bth, this would likely work great for that. Never smoked fent but I dont see any reason it wouldn't work great for that too.
https://humboldtvapetech.com/product/saionara-w-three-coils (https://humboldtvapetech.com/product/saionara-w-three-coils)
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Lol I’ve shot crack with heroin a handful of times. Used to have s friend that would always buy crack when we would cop and he’d throw me a little of it. We would use either vinegar or lemon juice to make the crack shootsble. It was ok but I was never willing to spend extra money on the crack haha. It’s been a few years since I’ve done that.
Not to derail but what was the deal with borohydride? I remember him from way back when I was a lurker at opiophike and from what I remember it seemed like he was a well liked member and then all of a sudden something happened and everyone hated him. Am I right about that ? What did he do to make everyone turn on him?
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IDK for sure, but from what I can gather, Boro wrote a lot of stuff that sounded impressive to non-chemists, but when asked if he'd actually performed any of the procedures himself, he actually hadn't, and when real chemists looked it over, often it turned out to be bullshit with loads of errors in it.
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Lol, haven't logged in in months and the first thing I read is a post about Boro. Used to chat with him quite a bit on the old phile forums before he got perma banned. I never investigated/tried any of his experiments, and honestly, a lot of the stuff we used to chat about back in the day was more for fun/speculation, so I don't really ever remember him claiming that his stuff was 100% correct and definitely worked, it was more just kinda throwing out ideas about reactions and mechanisms and how to get to certain end products. Could be wrong, and I never did have any idea why he got banned, but I also never heard any of the above things regarding his stuff being total bs either.
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The impression I got was that he used to write out a lot of things that sounded like they were tried and tested, but actually weren't, and he also used to post procedures as if they were quite easy and within reach of the 'home chemist', but were actually quite dangerous and wrong.
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BoroNomo
I loved it when Casey Hardison called his dumbass out for lying about their correspondence when he was down, and for being a hack with "dangerous ideas."
Said borohydride was some weak ass shit -- LAH FTW.
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I've heard around here that 80mg of done is the beginning of blocking dose territory. Pretty safe to say if you're on 90mg, you're not going to get much from dope.
I'm with you here. I used to be on 120mgs of 'done everyday and I would always IV good dope/fent BEFORE I went to the clinic for the day and I'd always get a rush and a decent high for a few hours til the 'done kicked in. Then, 3-4 hours later when the 'done kicked in on top of the dope/fent, I would really be feeling good.
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Yeah borohydrife just cut and pasted for the most part as I recall. I actually have done many of these procedures created a couple versions as well and he talks like someone just rehashing shit he heard elsewhere.
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Ive been having success with a simple ceramic skillet for pen style vape pens. Microvape, stag, etc...I have one skillet for crack and another for H. I smoke them right in front of people and no one has ever said a thing. Just looks like a vape pen you can load weed concentrates like shatter.
Another success story is using a dab rig to smoke H. I USE NO WATER, because H is water soluble. I take huge rips off those little things. I found quartz banger buckets dont work as well as the metal variations that are called dome-less titanium nails. There are many varying styles and designs. Ive tried about 4 different kinds and so far all work great.
MY Favorite thing used to me loading up a weed bong bowl with chore boy and smoking bong rips of crack. Now i can get a glob of H AND Stick a few crack rocks into/onto the H and dab that combo. Such a good feeling.
My next experiment is going to be an electric nail to maintain heat better. i see youtube videos of people acting hard with 1 gram sized dabs of shatter and wax. TAKE GRAM DABS OF HEROIN, WITH CRACK SPRINKLED ONTO IT. i have transcended to an elevated level of existence.
Some other notable things i have dabbed on a dab rig (everyone calls their bongs where i live "rigs", had to clarify DAB rigs and not needle LMAO)
with success are MDMA crystals, DMT, AND TINA. Just to be an asshole, and experiment, for science. I got my big dab tool, and loaded it up with Heroin, shatter, crack, MDMA, Meth, sprinkled with CBD crytalline, smoked all at once. Im unhealthy.
tl;dr Smoked that SMACK, that CRACK, and that BLACK out Of a bongs and it wasnt wack. Didnt even leave a track. FINISHED MY WHOLE SACK. AND WENT RIGHT BACK...fuck it, IM A MAC. THATS JUST FACT.
FUck all the wealth, be willing to experience and keep your health. Ill do everything to avoid the shelf. Look in the mirror and no longer see self. Just a black hole. drugs have taken their toll. Some of these mother fuckers lookin like trolls. i remember being young going with prostitots to raves with rolls. Miss the days when i had weed and just smoked bowls. fucking off some goals. digging deeper like a mole. BUT ill always need the end of the day spoil. WHEN ITS RIGHT I FEEL ROYAL. so good my pants I soil. damn im outta foil...
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How uncanny is this? I was just fantasizing about this the other day and didn’t think it was something based in potential reality but all of you guys have had the same thought so I’m thinking it’s a real possibility. I’m on fent patches and I’m curious if there could be a way to try this out? Please let me know if anyone is innovative enough to figure it out. Awesome idea guys!
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I doubt that this will ever become a reality but I'm impressed with you delving into our archives !