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Core Topics => Drugs => Other => Topic started by: robojunkie on November 06, 2015, 04:23:25 AM

Title: Fentanyl at home (not for beginners...)
Post by: robojunkie on November 06, 2015, 04:23:25 AM
OK so I've thought lots about this and I still really haven't made up my mind but just to throw it out there who would be interested in knowing how to make fentanyl from legally and non-suspectly acquired ingredients?  To say the least this is a huge undertaking, requires a pretty hefty set of balls and at least $3000, but done right it will get you all the blessings and curses of an infinite supply (and a small chance of unwelcome company, though not likely if you do not SELL)?
Title: Re: Fentanyl at home (not for beginners...)
Post by: corlene on November 06, 2015, 04:27:27 AM
I'll be the first on board
Title: Re: Fentanyl at home (not for beginners...)
Post by: Opus on November 06, 2015, 04:28:54 AM
You know my answer there y0.

Information wants to be free!

I've read about everything I can find on this one. Doesn't seem too bad? Less than 10 steps if I remember right, and it seems not terribly dangerous aside from the last step with (CH3CH2CO)2O (if I remember right, it's been a bit).

If Bernie (or Hillary) bring down tuition, I know what I'm doing..

Title: Re: Fentanyl at home (not for beginners...)
Post by: Z on November 06, 2015, 04:36:38 AM
I would be curious just to see it at least. 

I have to say that you might want to ask nick, candy and chipper first.  There is the other side of hosting a fentanyl recipe that they should have the chance to consider.
Title: Re: Fentanyl at home (not for beginners...)
Post by: dizzle on November 06, 2015, 04:38:57 AM
well I'm not sure what's all required RE: glassware, but I'd love to see what this whole thing entails...
Title: Re: Fentanyl at home (not for beginners...)
Post by: Jega on November 06, 2015, 04:49:07 AM
It first I liked the idea of password protecting this but then who gets to be the cartel that gets the password.

I’m leaning towards just putting it out there. $3000 is a big investment plus the time and motivation to do it.

Yeah I vote just put it out there
Title: Re: Fentanyl at home (not for beginners...)
Post by: Zoops on November 06, 2015, 04:52:11 AM
Hey what about completely LEGAL fent analogs, like replacing the piperidine ring with a 7-membered azepane ring?
Title: Re: Fentanyl at home (not for beginners...)
Post by: Opus on November 06, 2015, 05:03:51 AM
Meh, who needs chems and glassware when simulators exist - me, I wouldn't DREAM of running any sort or REAL rxn outside a real lab.. ;)

Great questions zoops.

Title: Re: Fentanyl at home (not for beginners...)
Post by: nick on November 06, 2015, 05:24:22 AM
I already know courtesy of your ex partner in crime.

You're welcome to post the papers here-so,it's between you and your conscience whether you should post this in the public domain or not.
Title: Re: Fentanyl at home (not for beginners...)
Post by: Reezy on November 06, 2015, 06:32:23 AM
Would love to know. I enjoy chemistry and reading about it. And doing small scale stuff for fun.(aka not this lol) Lotta money to put up but yes I've dreamed the dream only few ;) have ever lived that I know of.

This would probably be too much for most people anyway set aside the money..

I'd say post away. I'm on the edge of my seat.


EDIT: maybe in a members only section. Even though that doesn't do much being anyone can register. But atleast it's not like bam first in the google search. Don't need that attention
Title: Re: Fentanyl at home (not for beginners...)
Post by: robojunkie on November 06, 2015, 07:43:03 AM
I already know courtesy of your ex partner in crime.

You're welcome to post the papers here-so,it's between you and your conscience whether you should post this in the public domain or not.

Nick there are few humans I loathe more than those who heartlessly kill off our kind just to get rep for their product by fenting it up and that has been my ethical conundrum for years about publishing it.  Those who would use it not as sole survivors or small rings like I did but use it to make money and increase the fatal OD rate.  Fentanyl actually has a much safer therapeutic index than heroin but together they are very prone to respiratory arrest.  That has been the one hesitation...

The write up however will be mine, I came up with it and I will leave references where they are fit.  I would also describe in detail, not like in a typical peer review paper.  My moral safeguard is that only those clever and daring and committed enough will ever get it to work without the intuition (the art part of science) or me there as a teacher.  And it won't be all in one post it would just take too long but as I see a chemistry forum has been opened not coincidentally I imagine I will be getting on this in the next couple days.

Words of awareness for those who would try and succeed...freedom is slavery.  Because of its high TI and the huge supply one would have without great self control one would find oneself with an "infinite tolerance" essentially meaning nearly all Mu receptors down regulated and the ability to shoot 50 or 100 MILLIGRAMS at a time and feel NOTHING!  That is a nightmare I have lived three times and it only happens quicker and the return is needless to say pure hell.  Enough to drive many to suicide.  Our mutual friend is essentially on a succeed or die mission and there is nothing I can do to convince him otherwise.  That is my other hesitation, what makes him different than me?
Title: Re: Fentanyl at home (not for beginners...)
Post by: nick on November 06, 2015, 09:52:07 AM
I already know courtesy of your ex partner in crime.

You're welcome to post the papers here-so,it's between you and your conscience whether you should post this in the public domain or not.

Nick there are few humans I loathe more than those who heartlessly kill off our kind just to get rep for their product by fenting it up and that has been my ethical conundrum for years about publishing it.  Those who would use it not as sole survivors or small rings like I did but use it to make money and increase the fatal OD rate.  Fentanyl actually has a much safer therapeutic index than heroin but together they are very prone to respiratory arrest.  That has been the one hesitation...

The write up however will be mine, I came up with it and I will leave references where they are fit.  I would also describe in detail, not like in a typical peer review paper.  My moral safeguard is that only those clever and daring and committed enough will ever get it to work without the intuition (the art part of science) or me there as a teacher.  And it won't be all in one post it would just take too long but as I see a chemistry forum has been opened not coincidentally I imagine I will be getting on this in the next couple days.

Words of awareness for those who would try and succeed...freedom is slavery.  Because of its high TI and the huge supply one would have without great self control one would find oneself with an "infinite tolerance" essentially meaning nearly all Mu receptors down regulated and the ability to shoot 50 or 100 MILLIGRAMS at a time and feel NOTHING!  That is a nightmare I have lived three times and it only happens quicker and the return is needless to say pure hell.  Enough to drive many to suicide.  Our mutual friend is essentially on a succeed or die mission and there is nothing I can do to convince him otherwise.  That is my other hesitation, what makes him different than me?

I'm not trying to curtail your right to free speech and I know you're rightly proud of your knowledge of chemistry,but this isn't a recipe for cup cakes we're talking about here.

Maybe write a list of all the pros of posting this and then a list of all the cons- add it all up and look to your conscience.
Title: Re: Fentanyl at home (not for beginners...)
Post by: Morfy on November 06, 2015, 10:32:26 AM
I don't want to potentially influence anyone's decision, but I for one like to see such techniques done for various chemicals.

I have no desire to buy necessary equipment, precursors & supplies, BUT I do like to run the process, step by step, in my heAd--like a thought experiment--and: 1-see if it all makes sense, 2-see if I understand why a certain step is done at a specific time, 3-try and predict what the next step will be, etc..... 

Oftentimes I am surprised  by a seemingly unnecessary step, only to work-out WHY that particular step was done.  Usually, its about removing unwanted material that adds nothing, or is dangerous.

For instance: if you follow one of the several methods used to get Coca Paste, or cocaine from coca leaves, I can picture the desired chemical changing form: from an alkaloid conjugated with a plant acid, to a free base form, then conjugated back to its sulphate or hydrochloride version.

There is an oxidation step in there that removes another alkaloid co-extracted with the cocaine.  I believe the preferred method for doing this involves potassium permanganate; but I've also heard rumors that the more-easily available hydrogen peroxide will work as well.

So anyway, whatever you decide to do Robo-J, I support your decision (I think most here will too).  If you DO post, maybe you can add "Common Sense Check Points," or something similar.

What I mean by that is, if someone doesn't have, say, a pH Meter, you can provide alternative methods for getting a solution to the target pH.  Along the same lines, providing helpful tips about what SHOULD be seen when things are going right, or what you should NOT see (when things are going wrong).

Basically checkpoints, confirming that things are proceeding as they should.

Cheers everyone!

MoRFy




 



Title: Re: Fentanyl at home (not for beginners...)
Post by: Thoms on November 06, 2015, 12:00:20 PM
Your choice man. You know so much more about where it leads than we all do.
Title: Re: Fentanyl at home (not for beginners...)
Post by: NZniceguy on November 06, 2015, 04:58:59 PM
I too would love to read the process, even if just for entertainment reasons. Extracting morphine from different brands and from poppy seed tea/raw opium is my main subject of interest though. Would love to hear any thoughts you have on that stuff also.

I dont think the money grabbing types would bother getting the gear and precursors together anyway......only the truly committed/interested would bother.
Title: Re: Fentanyl at home (not for beginners...)
Post by: robojunkie on November 06, 2015, 05:25:00 PM
I too would love to read the process, even if just for entertainment reasons. Extracting morphine from different brands and from poppy seed tea/raw opium is my main subject of interest though. Would love to hear any thoughts you have on that stuff also.

I dont think the money grabbing types would bother getting the gear and precursors together anyway......only the truly committed/interested would bother.

I did a whole step by step extraction of morphine from dried pods and conversion to heroin on the old site.  Tragedy I don't have time right now to redo it, though I shall at some point.  It's actually not that hard, just messy because of morphine base's amphoteric properties and poor solubility in anything pH's must be precise.

Generally though one just concentrates the tea to a flowey but oily consistency then hits it with ethanol and gray plant crap crashes out, filter, evaporate off alcohol/water, reteaify, bring to pH at least 12 with Calcium hydroxide, (this makes soluble calcium morphinate and crashes out all the other alkaloids), filter through diatomaceous earth, then lower pH as close to 9.1 as possible with ammonium chloride and put in cold fridge overnight.  Doesn't hurt to add salt either.  After anywhere from a few to 24 hours you'll have an amber solution with tan powder settled on the bottom.  That's your morphine base.
Title: Re: Fentanyl at home (not for beginners...)
Post by: NZniceguy on November 06, 2015, 05:51:42 PM
I too would love to read the process, even if just for entertainment reasons. Extracting morphine from different brands and from poppy seed tea/raw opium is my main subject of interest though. Would love to hear any thoughts you have on that stuff also.

I dont think the money grabbing types would bother getting the gear and precursors together anyway......only the truly committed/interested would bother.

I did a whole step by step extraction of morphine from dried pods and conversion to heroin on the old site.  Tragedy I don't have time right now to redo it, though I shall at some point.  It's actually not that hard, just messy because of morphine base's amphoteric properties and poor solubility in anything pH's must be precise.

Generally though one just concentrates the tea to a flowey but oily consistency then hits it with ethanol and gray plant crap crashes out, filter, evaporate off alcohol/water, reteaify, bring to pH at least 12 with Calcium hydroxide, (this makes soluble calcium morphinate and crashes out all the other alkaloids), filter through diatomaceous earth, then lower pH as close to 9.1 as possible with ammonium chloride and put in cold fridge overnight.  Doesn't hurt to add salt either.  After anywhere from a few to 24 hours you'll have an amber solution with tan powder settled on the bottom.  That's your morphine base.

tHAT IS A BETTER BUT SIMILAR METHOD TO OUR LOCAL METHOD. a COUPLE OF QUICK QUESTIONS THOUGH...(sorry caps lock)..Can sodium hydroxide be used in place of calcium hydroxide? Would that just make sodium morphinate?   Also what is the purpose of the diatomaceous earth? Could a coffee filter not be used?

Thanks heaps for replying....you are a legend around the place and I always wanted to ask you a few things and listen to what you have to tell.
Title: Re: Fentanyl at home (not for beginners...)
Post by: robojunkie on November 06, 2015, 06:18:11 PM
Calcium hydroxide (lime) is used because it is insoluble in water it bases the phenolic hydrogen off morphine and pH does not increase further than basing the protonated alkaloids.  NaOH will if excessive damage your morphine.  This is done in heat.  Also, diatomaceous earth is used as a filter aid.  A simple coffee filter will clog leaving a gooey mess that will frustrate to no end.  Its worth the few bucks in the pool section.  Just magic bullet it to a fine powder.
Title: Re: Fentanyl at home (not for beginners...)
Post by: Riddick on November 06, 2015, 06:26:23 PM
Calcium hydroxide (lime) is used because it is insoluble in water it bases the phenolic hydrogen off morphine and pH does not increase further than basing the protonated alkaloids.  NaOH will if excessive damage your morphine.  This is done in heat.  Also, diatomaceous earth is used as a filter aid.  A simple coffee filter will clog leaving a gooey mess that will frustrate to no end.  Its worth the few bucks in the pool section.  Just magic bullet it to a fine powder.
Who would of thought an avatar like that would have these answers? Props.
Title: Re: Fentanyl at home (not for beginners...)
Post by: Z on November 06, 2015, 06:31:09 PM
Anyone who knows anything would riddick.  Play nice if you want to stay here.

Diatomaceous earth is just a filter media used instead of molecular sieves.  You can get it at a pool store ungraded, or substitute something that filters for various levels of filtration.
Title: Re: Fentanyl at home (not for beginners...)
Post by: Riddick on November 06, 2015, 06:36:18 PM
Anyone who knows anything would riddick.  Play nice if you want to stay here.

Diatomaceous earth is just a filter media used instead of molecular sieves.  You can get it at a pool store ungraded, or substitute something that filters for various levels of filtration.
Yo Z, honestly, please explain what the fuck the second sentence and after meant lmao. Please.
Title: Re: Fentanyl at home (not for beginners...)
Post by: Junkette on November 06, 2015, 09:37:07 PM
Robo, my partner doesn't understand how adding ammonium chloride will drop the ph to 9.1. Could you elaborate?

She works in the industry but not in opiates. Mostly API's.


PS> NEVERMIND, SHE JUST REALIZED IT IS AN ACID, SHE THOUGHT IT WAS A NEUTRAL SALT.
Title: Re: Fentanyl at home (not for beginners...)
Post by: robojunkie on November 06, 2015, 09:38:17 PM
Calcium hydroxide (lime) is used because it is insoluble in water it bases the phenolic hydrogen off morphine and pH does not increase further than basing the protonated alkaloids.  NaOH will if excessive damage your morphine.  This is done in heat.  Also, diatomaceous earth is used as a filter aid.  A simple coffee filter will clog leaving a gooey mess that will frustrate to no end.  Its worth the few bucks in the pool section.  Just magic bullet it to a fine powder.
Who would of thought an avatar like that would have these answers? Props.

Riddddddicccckkkkkk!!!!!!  (to the sound of the chronicles of riddick), wow busting my asshole on two posts in a row with that mean nasty looking scary avatar.  I'm gonna check in now, my tranny scared avatar obviously has no place on your pod lol.  Either your kidding or I'm taking you wrong but I've done time and I did my time like a man.  Don't judge me by my gender bender avatar bro.
Title: Re: Fentanyl at home (not for beginners...)
Post by: robojunkie on November 06, 2015, 09:40:03 PM
Robo, my partner doesn't understand how adding ammonium chloride will drop the ph to 9.1. Could you elaborate?

She works in the industry but not in opiates. Mostly API's.


PS> NEVERMIND, SHE JUST REALIZED IT IS AN ACID, SHE THOUGHT IT WAS A NEUTRAL SALT.

Just answered your own question strong acid, mild base.  NH4Cl is mildly acidic.
Title: Re: Fentanyl at home (not for beginners...)
Post by: Morfy on November 07, 2015, 02:40:04 AM
Just as a follow-up, Robo-J did answer some of these earlier,

But one of the cool things about the traditional method was that you don't need a pH meter to get to an exact pH. 

This would have been really important in the 1800's when pH meters did not exist.

Calcium Hydroxide (CaOH): due to its low solubility, you cannot overshoot the pH.  Just about the time you need to worry about going above a pH of 12, the solution can no longer dissolve any more CaOH, and it will collect on the bottom of the container.  No more "-OH" groups, no more raising of the pH!  Beautiful.

Ammonium Chloride will take that solution to a pH of ~9.1 or so.  Again, no need for a pH meter, but if you have one, why not verify the pH at this step.

Junkette:  Your friend MAY have thought RJ was talking about Ammonium Hydroxide, the strong base.

Cheers all!



Title: Re: Fentanyl at home (not for beginners...)
Post by: makita on November 07, 2015, 03:51:15 AM
I've been wanting to talk to you about this stuff forever, so glad you're here.

I know the experiences you have with Mu down regulation and infinite tolerance.  And I also know that there are people (some of them phile members) who have been able to purchase pure fent citrate or HCL powder and have seen their tolerances to it go from .5mg or 1mg a day over a number of repeated doses, to 10, 20, 30, 50, even 100mg a day (I think thats the largest I've heard on here outside of yours) in a short period of time.  Pantiespending was one who talked about those kinds of doses.  30mg a day sounds ridiculously high at first, but it is about the equivalent of burning through 3 100ug patches a day, which is pretty normative.

Even with those high powder amounts I have not heard of the same extreme down reg that you experienced (and I know you guys were doing much more than that).  What I've seen is that even extended periods at those doses can be kicked comfortably with the right comfort meds (DXM, gabapentin, clonidine) and substitution of other opies, and that one can transition back down to a reasonable dose of something else in a reasonable amount of time. 

Ive seen people try to do it with opioids alone and it wont work, you will still kick hard and you'll think your tolerance to everything has skyrocketed;  but those who can taper and bridge the gap with comfort meds plus other opioids, end up ok and back on their normal dose in a week or two. 

I've also seen a ceiling affect where you just cant get higher or feel the affects anymore, but that limits tolerance in itself as long as you don't just keep piling on for months to fight that.  Taking a break for a day or two, or doing the bare minimum to stay well for a few days, resets the tolerance back down pretty quickly.

You know how methadone builds up in your system due to the long half life and so you can be on 60mg but in reality your blood amounts are higher than that because of the successive doses over time?  I feel the opposite may be true with fent: like someone using 30mg a day may be technically using the equivalent of 3 GRAMS of morphine which is huge...but if that person actually took that much morphine in one day they would OD.  30mg of something that leaves your system in 1-3 hours just doesn't behave the same way as something of the same strength that lasts 6-8 or longer.  Its as if the short half life protects you from getting to a place where your tolly is impossibly high, to the point of no return.  Just like the fast increasing tolly protects you from overdosing.  Is that what you meant when you said the TI was safer?

Basically what Ive seen and heard from this small but growing population of recreational users is not near as scary or insurmountable as what we've been told to expect.  I guess my point is that fent seems to not be the boogie man non users seem to think it is. 

I wonder if you have any thoughts about any of this?
Title: Re: Fentanyl at home (not for beginners...)
Post by: Opus on November 07, 2015, 04:10:50 AM
PH paper is REALLY easy to make. Just get a chunk of red cabbage from the grocer, put it in a pot and cover it with water, simmer a bit, smash and mix around if you want, now start soaking about anything: TP, paper towels, printer paper, wtf ever medium you want. Then just let it dry and it's good for really quite a range. Obviously it's not hyper accurate, but it's pretty fuckin' good considering how easy it is to make.
Title: Re: Fentanyl at home (not for beginners...)
Post by: robojunkie on November 07, 2015, 04:27:40 AM
I've been wanting to talk to you about this stuff forever, so glad you're here.

I know the experiences you have with Mu down regulation and infinite tolerance.  And I also know that there are people (some of them phile members) who have been able to purchase pure fent citrate or HCL powder and have seen their tolerances to it go from .5mg or 1mg a day over a number of repeated doses, to 10, 20, 30, 50, even 100mg a day (I think thats the largest I've heard on here outside of yours) in a short period of time.  Pantiespending was one who talked about those kinds of doses.  30mg a day sounds ridiculously high at first, but it is about the equivalent of burning through 3 100ug patches a day, which is pretty normative.

Even with those high powder amounts I have not heard of the same extreme down reg that you experienced (and I know you guys were doing much more than that).  What I've seen is that even extended periods at those doses can be kicked comfortably with the right comfort meds (DXM, gabapentin, clonidine) and substitution of other opies, and that one can transition back down to a reasonable dose of something else in a reasonable amount of time. 

Ive seen people try to do it with opioids alone and it wont work, you will still kick hard and you'll think your tolerance to everything has skyrocketed;  but those who can taper and bridge the gap with comfort meds plus other opioids, end up ok and back on their normal dose in a week or two. 

I've also seen a ceiling affect where you just cant get higher or feel the affects anymore, but that limits tolerance in itself as long as you don't just keep piling on for months to fight that.  Taking a break for a day or two, or doing the bare minimum to stay well for a few days, resets the tolerance back down pretty quickly.

You know how methadone builds up in your system due to the long half life and so you can be on 60mg but in reality your blood amounts are higher than that because of the successive doses over time?  I feel the opposite may be true with fent: like someone using 30mg a day may be technically using the equivalent of 3 GRAMS of morphine which is huge...but if that person actually took that much morphine in one day they would OD.  30mg of something that leaves your system in 1-3 hours just doesn't behave the same way as something of the same strength that lasts 6-8 or longer.  Its as if the short half life protects you from getting to a place where your tolly is impossibly high, to the point of no return.  Just like the fast increasing tolly protects you from overdosing.  Is that what you meant when you said the TI was safer?

Basically what Ive seen and heard from this small but growing population of recreational users is not near as scary or insurmountable as what we've been told to expect.  I guess my point is that fent seems to not be the boogie man non users seem to think it is. 

I wonder if you have any thoughts about any of this?

Makita are you Nakita from before?  Anyway, my theory on my three fentanyl kicks all done differently is this: at the ultrahigh 100 mg/day + doses the mu receptors are so down regulated and the fentanyl serum level is so high that there is a strange delay.  The most one can get in a one cc rig is about 35 mg fentanyl HCl and this shot will hold for 12 hours despite the half life.  The kick once it drops though can be done with massive clonidine bentos amitrypltline gabapentin and any other downer you can get.  The prison kick was a hell morph of early arrest three days cold turkey no comfort meds in weekend hold then I foolishly went on methadone knowing the feds were eminently coming.  This made the prison detox drag into many months pure hell.  The final one the mystery one, was done by choice under great pressure with massive bento clonidine ami gabapentin methocarbamol and then two strips of suboxone.  I had no choice I had responsibilities but all I can say of this one is I know what hell is if there is such a place in the mind of the universe.  The yells I would let out involuntarily scared even me and the nonstop projectile vomiting and no let up for 24 hours and about 4 days to end fully.  Hard and fast is always my choice cuz its done sooner.
Title: Re: Fentanyl at home (not for beginners...)
Post by: nick on November 07, 2015, 05:13:42 AM
I've been wanting to talk to you about this stuff forever, so glad you're here.

I know the experiences you have with Mu down regulation and infinite tolerance.  And I also know that there are people (some of them phile members) who have been able to purchase pure fent citrate or HCL powder and have seen their tolerances to it go from .5mg or 1mg a day over a number of repeated doses, to 10, 20, 30, 50, even 100mg a day (I think thats the largest I've heard on here outside of yours) in a short period of time.  Pantiespending was one who talked about those kinds of doses.  30mg a day sounds ridiculously high at first, but it is about the equivalent of burning through 3 100ug patches a day, which is pretty normative.

Even with those high powder amounts I have not heard of the same extreme down reg that you experienced (and I know you guys were doing much more than that).  What I've seen is that even extended periods at those doses can be kicked comfortably with the right comfort meds (DXM, gabapentin, clonidine) and substitution of other opies, and that one can transition back down to a reasonable dose of something else in a reasonable amount of time. 

Ive seen people try to do it with opioids alone and it wont work, you will still kick hard and you'll think your tolerance to everything has skyrocketed;  but those who can taper and bridge the gap with comfort meds plus other opioids, end up ok and back on their normal dose in a week or two. 

I've also seen a ceiling affect where you just cant get higher or feel the affects anymore, but that limits tolerance in itself as long as you don't just keep piling on for months to fight that.  Taking a break for a day or two, or doing the bare minimum to stay well for a few days, resets the tolerance back down pretty quickly.

You know how methadone builds up in your system due to the long half life and so you can be on 60mg but in reality your blood amounts are higher than that because of the successive doses over time?  I feel the opposite may be true with fent: like someone using 30mg a day may be technically using the equivalent of 3 GRAMS of morphine which is huge...but if that person actually took that much morphine in one day they would OD.  30mg of something that leaves your system in 1-3 hours just doesn't behave the same way as something of the same strength that lasts 6-8 or longer.  Its as if the short half life protects you from getting to a place where your tolly is impossibly high, to the point of no return.  Just like the fast increasing tolly protects you from overdosing.  Is that what you meant when you said the TI was safer?

Basically what Ive seen and heard from this small but growing population of recreational users is not near as scary or insurmountable as what we've been told to expect.  I guess my point is that fent seems to not be the boogie man non users seem to think it is. 

I wonder if you have any thoughts about any of this?

Makita are you Nakita from before?  Anyway, my theory on my three fentanyl kicks all done differently is this: at the ultrahigh 100 mg/day + doses the mu receptors are so down regulated and the fentanyl serum level is so high that there is a strange delay.  The most one can get in a one cc rig is about 35 mg fentanyl HCl and this shot will hold for 12 hours despite the half life.  The kick once it drops though can be done with massive clonidine bentos amitrypltline gabapentin and any other downer you can get.  The prison kick was a hell morph of early arrest three days cold turkey no comfort meds in weekend hold then I foolishly went on methadone knowing the feds were eminently coming.  This made the prison detox drag into many months pure hell.  The final one the mystery one, was done by choice under great pressure with massive bento clonidine ami gabapentin methocarbamol and then two strips of suboxone.  I had no choice I had responsibilities but all I can say of this one is I know what hell is if there is such a place in the mind of the universe.  The yells I would let out involuntarily scared even me and the nonstop projectile vomiting and no let up for 24 hours and about 4 days to end fully.  Hard and fast is always my choice cuz its done sooner.

I have to ask,at what point were your mugshots taken?
Title: Re: Fentanyl at home (not for beginners...)
Post by: Riddick on November 07, 2015, 12:36:11 PM
Calcium hydroxide (lime) is used because it is insoluble in water it bases the phenolic hydrogen off morphine and pH does not increase further than basing the protonated alkaloids.  NaOH will if excessive damage your morphine.  This is done in heat.  Also, diatomaceous earth is used as a filter aid.  A simple coffee filter will clog leaving a gooey mess that will frustrate to no end.  Its worth the few bucks in the pool section.  Just magic bullet it to a fine powder.
Who would of thought an avatar like that would have these answers? Props.

Riddddddicccckkkkkk!!!!!!  (to the sound of the chronicles of riddick), wow busting my asshole on two posts in a row with that mean nasty looking scary avatar.  I'm gonna check in now, my tranny scared avatar obviously has no place on your pod lol.  Either your kidding or I'm taking you wrong but I've done time and I did my time like a man.  Don't judge me by my gender bender avatar bro.
You said some shit that didnt make sense, but respect. The way your living, ignorance has to be a primary attribute. Just wanted to add that a lot of love goes out to you... Courage is also an awesome attribute...
Title: Re: Fentanyl at home (not for beginners...)
Post by: makita on November 07, 2015, 01:12:56 PM

Makita are you Nakita from before?  Anyway, my theory on my three fentanyl kicks all done differently is this: at the ultrahigh 100 mg/day + doses the mu receptors are so down regulated and the fentanyl serum level is so high that there is a strange delay.  The most one can get in a one cc rig is about 35 mg fentanyl HCl and this shot will hold for 12 hours despite the half life.  The kick once it drops though can be done with massive clonidine bentos amitrypltline gabapentin and any other downer you can get.  The prison kick was a hell morph of early arrest three days cold turkey no comfort meds in weekend hold then I foolishly went on methadone knowing the feds were eminently coming.  This made the prison detox drag into many months pure hell.  The final one the mystery one, was done by choice under great pressure with massive bento clonidine ami gabapentin methocarbamol and then two strips of suboxone.  I had no choice I had responsibilities but all I can say of this one is I know what hell is if there is such a place in the mind of the universe.  The yells I would let out involuntarily scared even me and the nonstop projectile vomiting and no let up for 24 hours and about 4 days to end fully.  Hard and fast is always my choice cuz its done sooner.

Thanks for your thoughts/experiences.  My theory was that the delay (12 hours etc) is similar to methadone in that as you said, at those doses it stacks up in the system, and so there is so much fent in your fat cells that even though it still wears off at the same half life speed you dont feel it until it gets under a certain level.  Like if you have lets say 24mgs in your system, 3 hours later you have 12, 3 later you have 6, then 3, then 1.5, then .75 and THEN you feel it.   Whereas if you had started with only .75 in your system you'd get be there in only a couple hours.  But I dont have any chemistry knowledge, just some very basic psychopharmacology and junkie passion (it was fun taking my required psychopharm class last year, when the others in my cohort would have trouble remembering the difference between GABA and glutamate or what dopamine does or when a benzo was or wasn't indicated...and I'd be like the one person who knows all the trivial pursuit answers...ha ha little did they know how that knowledge was picked up).

And no I'm not Nakita (with an N, and from eastern europe).  I was the same makita on opiophile too (2012 I think is when I joined, but you were already away).  :)
Title: Re: Fentanyl at home (not for beginners...)
Post by: robojunkie on November 07, 2015, 07:55:14 PM
Nick the mugshot was taken after initial arrest friday morning was already about 18 hours out from last F shot.  Was also on meth and PCP, hence my acting foolishly in public because I didn't realize it was an hour later in the morning meaning people were there in the hallway.  In my state I hadn't happen to notice the automatons right away.  It took four cops five minutes to essentially all take a limb and cuff me.  All I could see was white light and escape status, when I glanced and saw them roll deep out the elevator and aggressively attack me even with my ID around my neck, which they asked for and was never given a chance to give them.  They were already onto me and had been for about one year and they decided to make a move. 
Title: Re: Fentanyl at home (not for beginners...)
Post by: Chip on November 11, 2015, 05:07:23 AM
there goes the tolerance.

i am staying away from Fentanyl - it's too hard to dose properly for me. be warned, danger abounds ... OD worries etc.

i cannot condone it in the interests of HR unless you have precipitated withdrawal or accurate measuring protocols.
Title: Re: Fentanyl at home (not for beginners...)
Post by: robojunkie on November 11, 2015, 05:54:56 PM
there goes the tolerance.

i am staying away from Fentanyl - it's too hard to dose properly for me. be warned, danger abounds ... OD worries etc.

i cannot condone it in the interests of HR unless you have precipitated withdrawal or accurate measuring protocols.

Dosing is actually quite easy if you have your own powder and handle it properly (it does absorb).  One simply dissolves as much as one can in a given say room temp water solution and its saturation point is your constant.  You never have to weigh anything, just know that about 33-35 mg goes into 1.0 ml water.  In other words a one or two unit shot would send a noob over the moon.  Normal people would then serially dilute.  Fentanyl as such has a much higher therapeutic index than phenanthrene opioids.  Its danger is of course assholes that spike low grade dope with it.  You can't ever guarantee even distribution in that kind of material.  That and the combo of heroin and fentanyl forget about any TI advantage. 

The true danger of fentanyl, not the artificial ones produced by the oppressive legal system, is attaining that awful "infinite tolerance".  It is psychological misery to know you have enough opiates to literally run a small scale illegal NAOMI type thing and yet you've jacked your tolerance to the point that an elephant shot just gives your head this weird styrofoam feeling.  Not even a hint of opiowarmth.  And it gets there relatively quickly especially IV.  But ideally were I to ever pursue it again I think I'd have to create some sort of med lock system that will only let me access so much at any given time and spike it with microdoses of buprenorphine.
Title: Re: Fentanyl at home (not for beginners...)
Post by: nick on November 11, 2015, 08:29:39 PM
there goes the tolerance.

i am staying away from Fentanyl - it's too hard to dose properly for me. be warned, danger abounds ... OD worries etc.

i cannot condone it in the interests of HR unless you have precipitated withdrawal or accurate measuring protocols.

Dosing is actually quite easy if you have your own powder and handle it properly (it does absorb).  One simply dissolves as much as one can in a given say room temp water solution and its saturation point is your constant.  You never have to weigh anything, just know that about 33-35 mg goes into 1.0 ml water.  In other words a one or two unit shot would send a noob over the moon.  Normal people would then serially dilute.  Fentanyl as such has a much higher therapeutic index than phenanthrene opioids.  Its danger is of course assholes that spike low grade dope with it.  You can't ever guarantee even distribution in that kind of material.  That and the combo of heroin and fentanyl forget about any TI advantage. 

The true danger of fentanyl, not the artificial ones produced by the oppressive legal system, is attaining that awful "infinite tolerance".  It is psychological misery to know you have enough opiates to literally run a small scale illegal NAOMI type thing and yet you've jacked your tolerance to the point that an elephant shot just gives your head this weird styrofoam feeling.  Not even a hint of opiowarmth.  And it gets there relatively quickly especially IV.  But ideally were I to ever pursue it again I think I'd have to create some sort of med lock system that will only let me access so much at any given time and spike it with microdoses of buprenorphine.

I have to ask(I've been meaning to for some time), but was it worth it?  I mean your last production run and all that came from it.
Title: Re: Fentanyl at home (not for beginners...)
Post by: robojunkie on November 12, 2015, 01:53:32 AM
In life experience in that it has made me a stronger person yes, in all else lost and destroyed, no.  I am forever associated with that drug for better or worse and the effects it has had on the people in my life especially most of all.  I can handle losing everything, didn't think I'd be able to, but I can.  But there is a price to learning this, it is kind of dying inside in a certain way.  To know the world for right or wrong or for whatever reason, can take everything but you from you is a rather discomforting knowledge and experience.  It burns an imprint on one's "soul".  I can turn my emotions off almost at will, I have to live with knowing that for the last five years and one year (new daughter) I can't financially do shit or at least anything near what I want to for my kids.  I can't do a few things with my girl that I'd like to be able to.  And I am exiled from the scientific community with a near permanence only overshadowed by the fact that I guess the only thing considered worse by the rest of the professional chemists (most of them, ironically I hang out with my Umass prof every few months) is academic dishonesty or faking data (Never done it never will).  But my story isn't over I never give up but sometimes I do know when something is no longer worth the cost either to myself or everyone I love.  I know I could actually do important shit in the research world I have an ability to see certain things and intuit them/associate that which others can't that frustrates the fuck out of me not being able to apply. 

So long answer short nick I do not know.  When I someday learn I am dying if I ever learn I do before I do I can say the answer to that question, or I am successful in the ways in which I define that for myself before that well then the answer shall have been yes.  I did accomplish one of my since teen age dreams, to be able to make whatever drug I wanted and to be able to do it from my head not someone else's papers or research, but I hate knowing accomplishing one dream damaged so many other dreams and people I love.  That sucks.  I really am writing (just barely now that I have this computer) this stuff as a memoir type story, maybe people will wanna read it in that form i.e. book and pay me for it, who knows.  Having lived it its better than a lot of shitty movies I've seen.

And no one ever died because I've my stuff, so many were on it I pretty much can say with some confidence one of them woulda OD'ed had they not been on mine.  When I went to prison one did on the street sadly.  Its an impossible dream though, nature forbids it, to have a lifetime supply.  Its just a futile cruel joke of the universe.  To actually have enough opiates to never worry about running out invariably leads to a tolerance where they become totally ineffective except for keeping one straight.  That is a nightmare too.  Like so many myths and stories, to find what you've always looked for and then not be able to have it...
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