Started MMT Today

[Narkotikon]

Thanks sand and water. . It's a low stress job. My wife got bumped to part time and it began this Monday. I didn't wanna mention it cuz she reads my posts and would have been offended if I didn't say this until she ok'd it just now. She's only picking up 30hrs a week from now on. But her dentist made it right. She raised her pay to 35/hr. So that's still sufficient. A drop from 63- 56ish. But she's full time in night school for her bachelor's so...Yeah we gotta make due.


Nark- I reached out to my parents and they said they'll help us with whatever we need. One thing is that my wife's car needs new brake pads and possibly rotors so my mom reached out to my uncle who owns a small garage back in our old town and he is gonna do it for somewhere like 1/3 of what the dealership would charge. It would go from 240/axle to about 100 ish. But if we need new rotors it'll still be around 245 an axle as opposed to the dealership's 350.

You were right man- it is not something I should be ashamed of. My mom wanted to help. So she got the ball rolling. It's not a true handout as I am still paying for the brakes and oil change but I get a family discount. I appreciated your advice as it spurred me to reach out and it is gonna help.

I'm very glad I was able to help.  It's great that you'll get a family discount. 

It's also great that you know now you have a safety net should you and your family ever need it.  It's great to do things for yourself.  It gives you a sense of self-worth, accomplishment, and pride. 

But it's also nice to know that you've got your back covered in case something happens.  Support from family and friends should be a vital component in everyone's life.  It's a shame that not everyone has the kind of family you have. 

Good luck, and keep up the good work!  You'll feel better in no time.      

[monkawat]

Thanks sand and water. . It's a low stress job. My wife got bumped to part time and it began this Monday. I didn't wanna mention it cuz she reads my posts and would have been offended if I didn't say this until she ok'd it just now. She's only picking up 30hrs a week from now on. But her dentist made it right. She raised her pay to 35/hr. So that's still sufficient. A drop from 63- 56ish. But she's full time in night school for her bachelor's so...Yeah we gotta make due.


Nark- I reached out to my parents and they said they'll help us with whatever we need. One thing is that my wife's car needs new brake pads and possibly rotors so my mom reached out to my uncle who owns a small garage back in our old town and he is gonna do it for somewhere like 1/3 of what the dealership would charge. It would go from 240/axle to about 100 ish. But if we need new rotors it'll still be around 245 an axle as opposed to the dealership's 350.

You were right man- it is not something I should be ashamed of. My mom wanted to help. So she got the ball rolling. It's not a true handout as I am still paying for the brakes and oil change but I get a family discount. I appreciated your advice as it spurred me to reach out and it is gonna help.

I'm very glad I was able to help.  It's great that you'll get a family discount. 

It's also great that you know now you have a safety net should you and your family ever need it.  It's great to do things for yourself.  It gives you a sense of self-worth, accomplishment, and pride. 

But it's also nice to know that you've got your back covered in case something happens.  Support from family and friends should be a vital component in everyone's life.  It's a shame that not everyone has the kind of family you have. 

Good luck, and keep up the good work!  You'll feel better in no time.   

Thanks Nark. You, jega, st. t, zys, opi-ette, chops, and S & W have without a doubt been the most supportive folks on the boards in regards to my recovery with MMT, along with some others too for sure. I appreciate you guys all so much. This has been my safety net of support, so to speak.

Also- I've decided I'm gonna go to grad school y'all. I will discuss the specific major/career path  but I'ts in a counseling-related field. I can go into more detail once I have solidified everything and know for sure this is the school for me- as 3 or 4 offer it online and all are accredited. The program doesn't require a GRE (Awesomeness) and my GPA is way higher than the required minimum. I'm excited as the program/school is both accredited and well-known in this particular field of study. It's entirely online and that is an absolute requirement for me. It's just 24 credit hours and my current sociology degree is a perfect undergrad degree to branch into this field.

I went up on my dose and am now at 55mg and feeling better. I can tell I am very, very close to a stable dose. I think around 60-70mg I will be good to go for a good amount of time.

Nark/Chops/Zys (only 3 on here I know for sure have been or are currently on MMT)- When you guys reached a "stable" dose early on and later wanted to go up- was saying you have cravings generally enough to go up later on down the road?


______________________________________________________________

Oh and on a random note- I finally quit using Zicam. It's like Afrin- it has oxymetazoline in the spray. It makes you severely and I mean SEVERELY physically dependent on its usage to breathe at all. After 15 years of using this shit- I'm off of it. I see an ENT doctor this week to get some nasal passage damage cauterized and I hope I have no septum perforations or a deviation. Nasal surgery fucking SUCKS from what I've heard from my cousins who both had it done. This shit is nasty and while it sounds super lame to say I was super physically dependent on an OTC nose spray- look it up. This shit causes horrific rebound congestion when you use it for more than 5-6 days at a time. I am on about 15.5 years of daily, constant use. I was spraying this shit up my nose every hour for that whole time. I tapered off it with a method I found on the interwebs. You stop in one nostril at a time, giving the other one time to heal while still using in the other one. It has been a week without in one and 2 or 3 days in the other. The one going on 2-3 days is what needs cauterization. It's fucked up. Both had fire engine red nasal passages, frequent bleeding, scabbing, and pinpoint bleeding all over. Also, burning pain, discomfort, and an inability breathe at all.

I'm hoping if I have to have repairing surgery the pain won't be too bad. Any experiences on here with this from either a patient or nurse/doctor perspective? (I know we have a doc and many nurses on here with lots of experience in all facets of medicine)

[suboxstitute]

Wow - you're doing so well; that's really great.  My daugher has a masters' in a counseling related field and she really likes it.  She's had lot of flexibilty, ranging from working in community based/homeless mental health (god, SO HARD) to now working for a major health care system on the phone triage/suicide line since she had a baby recently.  She isn't working full-time right now (she and her husband both work 3-4 days a week so one of them is home to take care of the 6 mos old little girl they have.)  Anyway, her earning potential is upwards of $60-70K w/the masters so it's SO worth your time for the grad degree.

Re:  taking help from your parents.  Let me say this:  when we could (now we no longer can      )  .... we did help our two kids as much as we could.   And it made me feel so good to be able to help (put one thru undergrad, put the other one through an expensive inpatient mental health stay that probably saved his life).   

But I digress.  I can tell you that if your parents are anything like the "average" parents who are the first generation in a while to be better off than their children, they see no better way to spend/invest their money than on you and your family, especially since you have kids.    And you're working so hard at it; they must be super proud.  And relieved! 

Reading your thread again really brightened my Sunday morning (esp. with the sadness we've had around here this weekend). 

[Z]

Sometimes a stable dose isn't so stable after a bit.  Generally saying that I was feeling had before talking my dose for a visit or two ans my d'oc is suggesting a small increase. 

I did have a period where I relapsed a lot.  I took my done quicker then I should and ended up using on top to fill in the missing days.  I never pissed dirty, but I came clean to the doctor and asked for his help to fix it.

I told him honestly how much I was using, and we figured out a new dosage from that.  I am probably lucky with my doctor.  Addiction medicine is all that he does, and he is probably not typical.

Good stuff with thinking about a masters.  You would do the course work, and then write a thesis or what?  I know that most masters include a funding component where your are well paid as a teaching assistant.  Maybe a traditional programming would be good for you.  Why online only?

[Opus]

@Monk: I could walk into my klinik and say: "traffic sucked driving here this morning, can I have a dose raise?" and they'd do it. My klinik is ridiculously easy like that. If you want a raise, it's generally not a problem. I pretty much set my own comfort level with maintenance in regards to dosage, I didn't have to make much of a case for raises aside from "it's not holding me", but then why would it hold me when I'm still shooting dope and eating pills on top of the 'done?

It took me quite awhile to find a stability point, but really it wasn't ever *that* stable 'cause (for me), dosing every 24hrs didn't work out so well.

[monkawat]

@Monk: I could walk into my klinik and say: "traffic sucked driving here this morning, can I have a dose raise?" and they'd do it. My klinik is ridiculously easy like that. If you want a raise, it's generally not a problem. I prett

y much set my own comfort level with maintenance in regards to dosage, I didn't have to make much of a case for raises aside from "it's not holding me", but then why would it hold me when I'm still shooting dope and eating pills on top of the 'done?

It took me quite awhile to find a stability point, but really it wasn't ever *that* stable 'cause (for me), dosing every 24hrs didn't work out so well.

Interesting. I am planning on going up to 60mg soon. What dose are you on chops if you don't mind telling me? And how long if an adjustment period was there to get stable?

[Narkotikon]

Monkawat:

My experience with MMT was comparatively short and ten years ago (very end of 2005 - Oct. 2006).  So I'm probably not the best one to give advice regarding the clinic.  Also, things may have changed since then. 

But no, it didn't require anything major to get a dose increase.  The clinic was private, so not nearly as strict as the public clinic in the city I was living.  The only reason people had to give was "I'm having cravings."  They'd go for it. 

The only other thing was that anything above 100mg/day required a peak and trough test.  They drew blood to measure your methadone levels.  Depending on the results, which were very liberally interpreted, you got your increase. 

I say liberally interpreted b/c I frequently skipped a dose about every 10 days or so.  I just was way too sedated on that shit, and I had to skip every once in a while to get one functioning day in. 

Anyway, the day they scheduled my trough was the day AFTER I had skipped.  They didn't say anything about that, and I took the test.  I even asked them after if missing the previous day would matter.  I was sure it would, but I thought I'd do the right thing and remind them.  The head nurse told me it wouldn't. 

I knew that couldn't be true b/c this was gonna measure by methadone levels, and I hadn't dosed in 48 hours b/c I had skipped the day before.  They also do the trough before you dose that day.  So yeah, gonna have low methadone levels. 

Of course the trough showed I had low levels, and I got my dose increase.  That was to go from 100mg/day to 105mg/day.  I ended up on 140mg/day for the last six months, and never had to take a trough again. 

The trough also cost $25, but I get the sense that won't be a problem for you. 

Good luck.  I don't think you'll have a problem getting a dose increase.  Especially if it's a private, for-profit clinic, and also b/c you're way under 100mg/day. 

[monkawat]

Thanks for the input/experience nark.

I had several issues arise lately. My parents have essentially said that they cannot ever get right with me being on done. This will likely eliminate any relationship or help we might get from them, but that is ok. I hope they'll come around.

With my wife's hours cut we can still survive but they are starting to lay off a lot of hygienists at her clinic. Luckily, those bumped to PT seem to get to stay it is all full timers they've cut in the past week or so. I am looking for another part time job. Fedex Express is hiring in the Dallas area and I am considering it. The shift is allright, only 4-5 hours and a little under 20/hr. It would be a stretch getting to the clinic when they open and then getting to work on time but I may be able to do it. My counseling is what takes a while so that might make me go for another armored car driver job. A couple big companies are hiring part timers and with my experience in the field and military wise, I'll get the job no doubt. The shifts suck balls for part timers and it only pays 13/hr but whatever- gotta pay the bills and shit. My wife can usually find a good job quickly in her field- I'm not skilled yet so that kinda eliminates anything over 17-18/hr.

I'm pretty fucking depressed right now. My family was never a good support network for my recovery but were financially. I honestly hope they get divorced ASAP cuz that will allow me to only deal with my Dad, who I get much more help and support/care from. My mother has always been a very difficult person to get along with. I never did a single thing good enough. She thought and still thinks my military service was stupid and often says derogatory things about those who join today and how they are just "uneducated poor people". I hate her mentality. She thinks she is better than everyone else- particularly addicts. You all would've died if you had heard the way she spoke about opiate addicts and all addicts in general last night when we talked in person at her home.

She told me that drug addicts are just "weak people" and that she "might have a failed marriage and career but at least she's not a fucking drug addict". I had to leave before I said some things I could never take back or recover our family relationship from. She also said that I was still an "addict to drugs and methadone" and that classic BS argument that I'm just "replacing one addictive drug with another". I attempted in vain to explain to her that physical dependence and addiction are two very separate concepts but she wasn't having it. That traditional, conservative, judeo-christian crap she's been force-fed her entire life won't ever dissipate. She thinks abstinence-based recovery programs are the only things that work. I pointed out the frequent failure rate my large amount of family members who are addicts have dealt with with these insanely expensive, failures of programs.

I'm upset and sickened at this point. I cannot believe the person that brought me into this world could have that attitude. I am praying that she turns her mentality and approach to this whole ordeal around- but I'm really not sure she will. 

I told her to have compassion for me for the sake of her relationship with my wife and her grand-kids and she seems to think she will still see my wife and kids if she cuts off emotional ties with me. Um, no. Not a fucking chance.

I just need to get through school and get a good full time job making at least 30-35k or more a year and I am not even going to think about getting off methadone in the next few years and she cannot come to grips with it. My wife has. She supports me being on it. But she's it. My only network of support is my wife and you guys on here. That is more than enough for me but still saddening that my family refuses to be a part in my recovery process.

[Z]

My mom did a masters in sociology. Like I said above, she received what is called funding from the sociology department.  She was paid the equivalent of 28/hour to be a teachers assistant as part of her masters.

From my understanding this is normal at all universities except online.

Why do you only want online, and have you thought abou5 applying to traditional masters programs just to see what they offer you?  It might just be very benedicial.

She made over 39k a year, and worked very low part the hours. Plus making contact with profs and academic peers.  Win/win.

[monkawat]

My mom did a masters in sociology. Like I said above, she received what is called funding from the sociology department.  She was paid the equivalent of 28/hour to be a teachers assistant as part of her masters.

From my understanding this is normal at all universities except online.

Why do you only want online, and have you thought abou5 applying to traditional masters programs just to see what they offer you?  It might just be very benedicial.

She made over 39k a year, and worked very low part the hours. Plus making contact with profs and academic peers.  Win/win.

Masters are different here. There is no teaching period as an assistant for my degree. And TAs at my college make min wage pay.

I have to do online because I have to work full time while going 2 school and not a single school in my state offers a masters degree specifically in addiction counseling. Also, the price is good at only 22k for the whole program.

I take my 24 hours all online and then take my certification as a licensed chemical dependency counseler in the state of texas and i am good to go. They waive all clinical training hours (a whopping 4000 supervised hours) for those with a masters in addiction counseling.

So online makes sense.

[Griffin]

That is great that you are pursuing to become a LAC, maybe you can start up your own clinic. I am sure there is quite a bit of money and plenty of patients out there. Plus with you knowing this side of it you would probably be a lot more compassionate instead of money hungry. Do you know if it is just in your state that they waive the supervised hours for people with masters degree? I will probably look it up but I hadn't heard that before. I would still want to do the 2000 supervised hours just to have some more experience and clinical knowledge but I understand how not getting paid and having to do 4000 hours would not be beneficial especially sense you have a family to support.

I was planning on being a CAC I or CAC II if I got off of methadone and was able to stay clean. I am still going to get my associates of arts for sociology and take all the addiction classes. I plan on getting a bachelors degree for business management instead of going 4 years into social work or addiction counseling. I wish you luck with it all, and please keep us updated if you do start your masters program because that is something I am very interested in hearing about.

I decided not to tell my parents when I got back on methadone after getting arrested and getting clean. I lasted 4 months before I decided I couldn't handle it anymore. My quality of life was shit, I was so depressed and anxious 24/7 that I did nothing. I had no motivation and would only get out of bed to eat, piss, or goto work. One of the main reasons I got back on MMT is kind of stupid but I have such bad anxiety that it causes freakish amounts of arm pit sweat. I had to change my shirt at least once an hour because I would sweat all the way to the end of the sleeve within an hour. It made my social anxiety that much worse and made work almost unbearable because I couldn't cover it up.

My parents were semi-supportive when I first got on it. They were more supportive of subs, I had been on subs for 10 months and I didn't get past 3 weeks in a row of clean time and I really wanted to stay clean. It just didn't help with my cravings, depression or anxiety. I ended up selling most of them to support an even bigger habit and I was making way to much money at the time which wasn't helping. I went from being homeless, unemployed, with absolutely nothing to having a dream job, car, apartment, and being back in school within a year of starting MMT. I figured that would speak for itself sense I haven't used once sense starting MMT in Nov. 2013.

They blamed me getting arrested again on MMT which is understandable because it was a DUI for methadone and I got 2 drug charges over having my anxiety meds in my blood pressure meds bottle. They thought I was using again even though I would of gone to jail for failing a UA. They didn't understand why I needed to be on MMT after the physical withdrawals subsided. I started trying to convince them about 3 months after getting arrested and being clean that I needed to be back on it to no avail.

When I finally got back on it I decided not to tell them because they would just start the nagging and asking when I am going to get off it. The way the viewed me would be completely different as well. They see MMT as the same as being strung out just coming from a legal source. They are very supportive of me and I have always been completely open with them about everything it just was not worth the hassle. I am sorry your mom feels that way I completely understand how it feels to not have the people you love most not understand why this is the same as being clean or in recovery.

You have a ton of support here and please reach out when you start getting down. I hope you get to a stable dose and that everything works out for you. 60 mgs is what my dose is and I have felt perfect sense getting on it. I am glad you are giving each raise in dose time to settle before going up. Are you still craving or having any withdrawal symptoms at night? Keep your head up and please reach out to us. When I decided not to tell my family about being on MMT it sent me into a little bit of a depression. I asked about it here and being able to talk to people who understand and get the support I was looking for brought me right out of it. There are so many caring people with amazing knowledge here it is way better than any counseling I have gotten IRL.

[Z]

I like the canadian method better    the one you describe seems almost hostile towards the students that it is supposed to be helping.  Unbelievable.

[monkawat]

And the plot thickens:

Now I have to have surgery for a deviated septum next month...

I get out the same day if everything goes right but who knows what they do for the methadone maintained as far as IV meds go if I have pain immediately post-op?

Obviously I'll be on my methadone and tylenol when I leave-but the in-hospital shit is what I wanna get an idea of.

[Chip]

what happens if you don't get the procedure done at all ?

just being nosey ...

[monkawat]

what happens if you don't get the procedure done at all ?

just being nosey ...

Then i will continue to be unable to breathe thru my nose..i am about at 30 percent thru each nose maybe 20 out my right nostril.

 And it is getting worse daily unfortunately it is why i finally went to an ent2day

[Chip]

i see. yeah, get it done. i have that problem at bedtime.