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Core Topics => Treatment, Recovery and Rehabilitation => Topic started by: gnossos on March 02, 2017, 02:32:20 PM

Title: Methadone clinics are fucking evil.
Post by: gnossos on March 02, 2017, 02:32:20 PM: I will be so fucking thrilled when I don't have to go to the methadone clinic every day ever again. After 2 years at 3 different clinics, I feel like I've seen the darkest side of humanity. I'm in the NW Georgia/Chattanooga area (right on the border). Also lived and went to a clinic in Atlanta for a few months. Not sure if it's just down here in the Bible Belt or what, but the people that run these places just seem like pure fucking evil incarnate.

I mean, it's a business that thrives off the misery of others. Methadone clinics are in the business of giving addicts another, even more severe addiction. At my absolute worst as a junkie I never felt so shackled by an addiction until I got on methadone. Before first getting on methadone, I was just barely staying well anyway. I wish I'd just been sick a few days or a week and got it over with rather than piling an yet another addiction on top of the pile I was already working with.

The clinic I'm at now was awesome at first. They were new so they had less than 200 patients, so patients got more one-on-one, personalized care. That was the first clinic where the clinical director seemed so involved and hands on with his staff and patients. This was the first staff member I'd ever met at a methadone clinic who seemed to genuinely care about helping people.

That didn't last long.

Anyway, is it just me or do methadone clinics tend to cause more harm than they help, more often than not? I'm sure the type of addictions people are using methadone to overcome varies by location, but here in rural GA it seems like 90% of the patients at my clinic were never hardcore opiate addicts, definitely not to the point of needing methadone. After 2 years at this clinic, I've only ever met one other person who went on methadone to get off heroin.

When I strike up a conversation with another patient in the waiting room and we start romanticizing [bragging] about our old habits that landed us there, I always assume they're junkies too. I'm then surprised when they say they were just popping pills - usually morphine or something. I'm not saying that pills can't give you just as bad a habit as dope, but I just don't feel like someone who was eating a handful of Lortabs every day needs 120mg/day for the next 10 years or the rest of their life to kick.

--------------------------------------------------------

My main issue with methadone clinics is that I think there needs to be a policy or guidelines in place that treat the addiction with a daily dose of methadone that corresponds. Someone who's been shooting a couple grams of heroin every day shouldn't be on the same dose as someone who was popping a Lortab or Oxy here and there.

It's insane to me the way the staff at methadone clinics make you feel like you're gonna need to be on methadone the rest of your life, or at the very least for years. I originally planned to take methadone just long enough to get through the heroin withdrawals. Maybe a few months at most, then I'd be done. Two years later, I feel like I've been tricked.

I don't know about clinics in other regions of the country, but the counselors at the 3 I've been to here in GA are fucking jokes. They tell you at intake how the counseling is just as important as the medication, that they're not just there to give you your daily dose and send you on your way.
Title: Re: Methadone clinics are fucking evil.
Post by: Z on March 02, 2017, 03:00:59 PM: That's not my experience. The system is a bit different here, but the programs aren't that different. Don't most of the private clinics have big waiting lists and turn people away? If that's the case then it makes no sense that they try to trap you there. I don't know your clinic, but it just doesn't seem logical. Maybe they want you to have clean urine, and good prospects for staying clean and stable before you go down.

You might have been sick for a few days and then gone right back at it for X reason. I know that is how I have done it over and over again.

I'm responsible for my addiction. Methadone is a way to deal with it short term. One of the main reasons addicts fail at stopping drugs is that drugs are the only life they know. Methadone has let me get on with my life to the point where I can see a different way to live. It gave me time to work on some of my problems without having the pressure of a quick relapse back to where I was. I've made new friends who don't use drugs all day, and have rekindled some family support. My fuckups have been fairly minimized by having methadone to fall back on.

Maybe you should look into some counselling of some sort? Just showing up and drinking your juice won't change much for you. There isn't really a magic bullet for dealing with addiction.
Title: Re: Methadone clinics are fucking evil.
Post by: gnossos on March 02, 2017, 04:06:34 PM: Administrator Comment Originally titled, "Maybe it's the methadone I hate not the clinics."

Why Methadone Doesn't Work

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2012/jan/10/why-methadone-drugs-dont-work (https://www.theguardian.com/society/2012/jan/10/why-methadone-drugs-dont-work)

The first task of the day in the pharmacy is to prepare the methadone, a little over a gallon this morning. Its supervised daily consumption has been the mainstay of the harm reduction philosophy that has largely driven heroin addiction treatment for the past 20 years. Not all pharmacies supply methadone, but in those that do, the pharmacist sees addicts more regularly than any other health professional.

George, employed and drug-free for almost 10 years with her commitment to Narcotics Anonymous, still tells me of the conflicting emotions she felt as each day she stood in my busy pharmacy with her daughter in the pram, and consumed the sticky green methadone mixture, followed by a glass of water to help stop her teeth rotting from it, gradually reducing the dose. Today, pharmacies have private rooms for such activities, but the daily grind continues. One inner-city pharmacy has even relocated to a former bank, and the walk-in vault is now the "drug cupboard" accommodating the quantity of methadone required.

Methadone is a highly addictive synthetic opiate, more addictive than heroin and harder to withdraw from, but it survives the digestive system and so does not need to be injected. Most addicts loathe it. They call it green gunk and grimace as they swallow. All of today's addicts have been coming to the pharmacy for months, some for years. And that's the problem.

The Centre for Policy Studies thinktank has called methadone maintenance "nationalised drug dealing". Instead, it promotes recovery through residential detox and abstinence-based rehabilitation. But there are pitifully few rehabilitation beds available at "reasonable rates" of around £600 a week, and none in the NHS.

The National Treatment Agency for Substance Misuse (NTA) recognises that addicts have been parked on methadone for too long, and now promotes abstinence as the treatment goal, with time limits on the duration of methadone maintenance. Jane, a drug therapist, shakes her head in disbelief at the new recovery targets and the lack of facilities and experienced staff to handle such a change. She and her colleagues worry about how the new emphasis on recovery – welcomed as it is – will affect the most vulnerable people, for whom harm reduction is fundamental. The cherry picking of new clients to attain NTA targets seems inevitable.

Advertisement

And what of those heroin addicts not in treatment? They visit me regularly for clean needles to inject filthy brown street heroin. There is growing evidence to support treating these long-term relapsing addicts with pure heroin. A blueprint for the requisite regulatory changes has been created, but until the laws are changed they must remain thieves and prostitutes, rather than patients, victims of legalised social neglect.

The children of the addicts in my pharmacy today live in blighted social circumstances. Unless the fundamentals of social inequality are addressed, it is hard to see them having very different lives from their parents. Drugs may fuel addiction, but they don't cause it. Those politicians who, in the face of all contrary evidence, stubbornly see the drugs as the problem are no less misguided than the addicts who see drugs as the solution.

By the end of the afternoon I have dispensed the gallon of methadone to 33 addicts and supplied three more with clean needles. They should all be back after the weekend.

• Peter Dawson is a locum pharmacist in West Yorkshire.

Administrator Comment I merged this into the original thread. Please don't make a new topic for every response. Z
Title: Re: Methadone clinics are fucking evil.
Post by: OpiXPO on March 02, 2017, 04:54:49 PM: I take issue with two parts of this. Saying your drug free while taking methadone irks me. Going from addict to completely free of drugs is no easy chore, and it really devalues that accomplishment for those who actually do it. There is a guy at one of the meetings I go to who raises his hand saying hes been drug free for over a year and offers to sponsor, at an NA meeting, even though hes on methadone and occasionally is nods out, with glassy eyes and pinpointed pupils.

Second, I don't think this article really understands the purpose of (or at least what I view its purpose is) of methadone. I don't believe its a good choice for getting off drugs for most people. I do think however its a good choice if you need to get control of your life again. It will offer you some stability while you put your life back together and gets you out of the scene if your serious. Only having to dose once a day, and that its not normally tested for on pre-employment drug screens lets you get a job and gets you some peace in your life not having to constantly worry about if you have enough in your stash to make it as long as you need to. Of course, it's got the nickname "liquid handcuffs" for a reason, and people need to realize that. People are going into it without really understanding what it's value is, and because of it have not realistic expectation.
Title: Re: Methadone clinics are fucking evil.
Post by: Lolleedee on March 03, 2017, 01:01:36 PM: Personally, I have has great success with methadone. I find the people who complain about "liquid handcuffs" are the ones who years later, Are still going every fucking day because they haven't pissed clean once. I only have to show up once every two weeks...takes five minutes. I spend way more time going grocery shopping every week, but I don't say I have "grocery handcuffs". Spending 5 minutes, every two weeks to keep my addiction in check is a small price to pay.

I do not agree with the article that says it is more addicting than heroin. Addiction is a state of absolute...you are addicted or not. The substance has very little to do with addiction...it is the behaviors..the scheming, lying, stealing and being an all-around asshole when using that is truly the hallmark of addiction. Being physically dependent on methadone is a trade off...I have a physical dependency, but I have my life back because I'm not chasing the drugs. Methadone allows my mind to stop screaming, along with my body, so I can focus on the life I destroyed using...and my life gets bbetter every day.

This is my second time on methadone..was on about 10years ago, and I find the statement that it is harder to get off than heroin bullshit. If you taper slowly, it does take longer,but I was able to taper down with absolutley no withdrawal at all! Does it suck going down a milligram or two every week? Yeah, it took what felt like forever, but I did it in complete comfort.

My clinic has awesome ccounselor's. Mine is a real M.S. level counselor and has been doing it for 20 years. Talking to her has been instrumental in my recovery.

I hate when people think methadone somehow "takes away" from the people who just quit. Why can't those people just be proud of themselves and not compare themselves to others. Methadone isn't easier...it's different. I only hear this shit from NA people. I spent years in the rooms and it is filled with sickness and cult mentality. I know it works for some and I'm glad it is an option for them. But, I don't go around telling them their recovery is "wrong" and that they should try MAT, so why do they feel they have a right to shove their unscientific "program" down my throat? Why can't we just support eachother, ferchristsakes!!!!

P.S. If the guy at the meeting is nodding he is either mixing with benzo's or on way to high of a dose. On the correct dose, you don't nod or have pinpoint pupils. He is probably mixing.
Title: Re: Methadone clinics are fucking evil.
Post by: Chip on March 03, 2017, 07:29:37 PM: I found my clinic very fair and my doctor was awesome.

we never talked about my opiate usage much and he laid the maximum take homes on me when he saw me struggle with parking. I was also not penalised for using other drugs ... how mature and fair, I thought.

I have used the clinic to detox a couple of times, the last one being forever.

I always saw the clinic as a burden though and a huge impediment to balancing a job as well.

I have had only one lousy doctor and quickly came to realise that it's the luck of the draw.

what's the alternative? losing lots of your money to a habit ? I had a mortgage to pay and was not going to jeopardize my house for any drug.

sure beats waiting for the man.
Title: Re: Methadone clinics are fucking evil.
Post by: bignasty on March 04, 2017, 03:16:18 AM: Quote from: chipper on March 03, 2017, 07:29:37 PM
sure beats waiting for the man.
^^ That's what I always tell folks at the clinic I go to when they're bitching about the nurses taking too long to dose them. At least the nurses don't say 5 minutes over and over then dose them an hour or two later. The clinic is much better than any habit unless you're getting scripted a good amount and take everything as directed. I pay $100 a week for 120mg's of MD a day which would cost at least $72 a day if I was buying them on the street or at least $100 a day if I was using H
Title: Re: Methadone clinics are fucking evil.
Post by: Z on March 04, 2017, 04:08:49 AM: There are no weak batches at the clinic either. It isn't perfect for sure. The most successful people seem to use it to walk way from the hustle and build another way for themselves.

Honestly I don't know if a dope script would help the same way. Would it keep me right here in the constant cycle of sick and high. Hustling to fill the gaps. I honestly don't know. It would definitely help role who don't want out yet to live a safer more productive life.

I might still find myself switching to methadone after a while for stability. When I started on test it took off the couple had things about methadone for me.
Title: Re: Methadone clinics are fucking evil.
Post by: dizzle on March 04, 2017, 04:49:11 AM: methadone clinics aren't evil actually, at fucking all.

I never understand when people say this.

Person walks into clinic, says "I have a drug (heroin) problem, please help me"

Clinic says "OK I'll give you drugs regularly, but I won't give you a bunch of them at once unless you prove your off illegal drugs"

Person says "Sure whatever, I just need help"

6 months later person drives their life off a cliff for reasons totally unrelated to methadone

THE CLINIC IS FUCKING EVIL

riiiiiiight. It's the clinics fault you can't stop smoking crack and taking fistfuls of benzo's. (not directed at gnossos but that's usually what happens)
Title: Re: Methadone clinics are fucking evil.
Post by: OpiXPO on March 04, 2017, 05:23:17 AM: Quote from: Lolleedee on March 03, 2017, 01:01:36 PM
P.S. If the guy at the meeting is nodding he is either mixing with benzo's or on way to high of a dose. On the correct dose, you don't nod or have pinpoint pupils. He is probably mixing.

Dunno, I dont talk to him ever actually outside of the meeting and he doesn't stick around after the meeting. All I know is that he is very quickly wearing his welcome out saying that he is over a year clean and trying to pick up sponsees when he is nodding out in literally every meeting. Don't get me wrong, I'm cool with how ever people feel they need to deal with the addiction to get their life back on track, and if you want to get methadone and go to NA, thats cool too. Claiming you have a year clean annoys me after having actually done the program and been drug free for over a year, but I'd still mind my own business on that. Him trying to pick up sponsees makes me want to kick him out.
Title: Re: Methadone clinics are fucking evil.
Post by: wanderingmind on March 04, 2017, 05:42:06 AM: Very interesting thread so far!

My experience with MMT is complicated. I swore I'd never get on methadone and it ended up becoming the only option for me a number of years ago. I was homeless and spending all of my money on H. Life fucking sucked! A friend of mine, who ended up OD'ing a few years ago, got on methadone and very quickly got "better." I looked into it and figured I'd give it a shot.

I enrolled at the clinic and started MMT. I quickly found that many people there were mixing benzo's with the 'done and I wanted to see what all the fuss was about. Goddamn did I fall in love with methadone and xanax. Like many people on MMT, I kept upping my dose until it became a hassle to keep upping it (paperwork, doctor visits...) I ended up going up to 150 mg's and was taking on average of about 18 mg's of xanax a day. I was able to finally kick the benzo thing and started getting "better." I wasn't using anything besides the methadone. I got to the point where I only had to go in two times a month. It was very hassle-free.

The problem I had with methadone is that it absolutely killed my drive to improve my life. I slept a lot and basically just existed. I ended up being on/off MMT for nearly five years. During these five years I did not do anything except exist. Things improved, for sure, relationships and stuff like that...but, I just felt stuck.

In my experience during my time on MMT. There are three basic types of people on MMT. 1) There are the people who get on MMT and continue to fuck around with drugs. These people never get extra carries. They go in to the clinic 6 days a week. 2) People like me who got on MMT and maybe fucked around for a little while and then got on the "straight and narrow." They end up getting extra take home doses. But, they basically just exist like I was doing. Not a whole lot improved in their life (i.e., unemployed, sleep a lot, not very motivated...) 3) The rarest people who were able to stay on the straight and narrow, get a job or stayed at the job they were at and life dramatically improves for them. I never met too many of these type of people. But, the people I did meet I was always jealous of them. They seemed to be doing so well!

I am incredibly grateful that I got off of methadone. It did what it was supposed to do, kept me from sticking a needle in my arm, but it wasn't right for me. Even when I was on a lower dose of 90 mg's, I still felt stuck. I think what others have mentioned about needing something other than "just taking methadone" is spot on. Whether that be AA/NA or some other thing that helps you improve your life is a necessity. Without that other thing, you will just stay stuck.

Bottom line is that MMT works for you, that's awesome! If you find that MMT does not work for you, get off and try something else. Unfortunately, there's not a whole lot of other options :-[ I am currently on Suboxone. In the past I've been on Suboxone and continued to use on the weekends. I wasn't sure if bupe would ever work for me. I got back on Subs a couple years ago and started going back to AA and it made all the difference. My plan was to stay on subs for about a year and get off. I ended up doing dope again and recently got back on the subs.

EDIT: I just saw what OpiXPO wrote and totally agree. If someone is taking methadone as prescribed (not on too high a dose either) I think they should be totally welcome at all meetings. If someone is on MMT and is either at too high a dose or is fucking around with benzo's...it's wrong to say that you are "clean." Picking up sponsees in that state rubs me the wrong way.
Title: Re: Methadone clinics are fucking evil.
Post by: Thoms on March 04, 2017, 06:06:34 AM: I think people who make a bunch of threads calling things evil need to stop blaming all their problems on everything but themselves. It's not the fucking chemical. It's the person
Title: Re: Methadone clinics are fucking evil.
Post by: OpiXPO on March 04, 2017, 07:03:32 AM: Shots fired!!
Title: Re: Methadone clinics are fucking evil.
Post by: onewayonly on March 04, 2017, 08:05:14 AM: Yeah I overall think methadone is fair and equally distributed in america. Now I think smoking pot should not prevent carries but whatever.
Yea I go in every day 365 days a yr. but whatever even if I saw my dealer once a week it took me more time to drive to him since it was 90 minutes. The clinic is 5 minutes a day and way cheaper so what can I really bitch about. I mean if I quit pot I would get carries quickly.

Its allowed me to save mad money while my job performance has gone through the roof in a good way.
I don't think its a coincidence I was about to get told I was performing bad for the first time ever at my job.
Well I got a great raise and great review this yr which I have been on methadone.

So yeah it saved me money, job and family is happy. I do need to start lowering 2 mg a week. I'm on 100mg
Title: Re: Methadone clinics are fucking evil.
Post by: OpiXPO on March 04, 2017, 09:44:03 AM: Don't rush it one-way, things are going well for you so take a little time to enjoy it unless you have a reason to. 2mg a week is kinda fast isn't it? Why not go for every other week instead?
Title: Re: Methadone clinics are fucking evil.
Post by: dizzle on March 04, 2017, 10:48:28 AM: Quote from: OpiXPO on March 04, 2017, 09:44:03 AM
Don't rush it one-way, things are going well for you so take a little time to enjoy it unless you have a reason to. 2mg a week is kinda fast isn't it? Why not go for every other week instead?

Qft
Title: Re: Methadone clinics are fucking evil.
Post by: Z on March 04, 2017, 04:18:01 PM: I think that the best schedule to follow is the one your body tells you it's ready for. If you get your mind set on a weekly change you will probably hit a wall somewhere and get frustrated. Personally I've dropped my dose by 10% and then stabilized for a month a few times. My wife drops her dose by 1mg per 2 months. It depends on what you feel comfortable with.
Title: Re: Methadone clinics are fucking evil.
Post by: wanderingmind on March 04, 2017, 10:19:31 PM: Quote from: Z on March 04, 2017, 04:18:01 PM
I think that the best schedule to follow is the one your body tells you it's ready for. If you get your mind set on a weekly change you will probably hit a wall somewhere and get frustrated. Personally I've dropped my dose by 10% and then stabilized for a month a few times. My wife drops her dose by 1mg per 2 months. It depends on what you feel comfortable with.

I agree 100%

It's a recipe for disaster if you drop down too quickly. Onewayonly; If things are going really well...why are you thinking about getting off MMT?
Title: Re: Methadone clinics are fucking evil.
Post by: onewayonly on March 05, 2017, 10:47:51 AM: Thanks for the replies guys opioxpo and others.

Just being honest I can loose 20mg of the 1000 in 2 months no problem. With weed I actually still nod pretty hard actually. Especially on the weekends with no work I can sleep all day with trees and done. I could easily drop 20mg of the 100 mg I take.
80mg I would be fine I think.

Them from there I can take it slow.
Title: Re: Methadone clinics are fucking evil.
Post by: OpiXPO on March 05, 2017, 05:17:48 PM: If I were in your shoes, I'd aim for a level that had me comfortable without weed or anything and start working towards take-home doses. That way if you decide to take a vacation or something, or you have days were you can't make it to the clinic, you have backup supplies. But most importantly, do what lets you enjoy life now and keep progressing. You've earned it and I am truly happy for you and excited for what you can accomplish now. :D
Title: Re: Methadone clinics are fucking evil.
Post by: onewayonly on March 06, 2017, 01:24:50 AM: Thanks man. Everything is good with me. The thing is a
I just like weed to much to stop smoking enough time to get carries. Plan is to just slowly taper. I do not mind going each day which most hate.

Just went to Florida for 10 days with no problem guest dosing.
Hope it goes the same in LA in a few months.
Title: Re: Methadone clinics are fucking evil.
Post by: gnossos on March 06, 2017, 04:46:25 AM: I finally got some sleep and a clearer mind. I have a lot of replies to read, but first let me update my opinion now that I can articulate it a little better:

I think American methadone clinics need to take a page from European countries with highly progressive drug policies. I've read that Portugal actually has "heroin clinics" where I assume they wean you off the drug you're already addicted to, rather than giving you a more powerful drug and trading one addiction for another.

I think the most effective way to deal with opiate addiction would be something like the opposite of a methadone clinic. I'm not totally sure how Portuguese heroin clinics operate, but I imagine they give you just enough to get well and slowly wean you down in a controlled environment.

Methadone clinics treat opiate addiction with a one-size-fits-all, general approach. Whether you had a 2 gram or 25mg/day habit, you wind up on about the same amount of methadone (usually close to the max, or even higher). My clinical director told me he's had patients go on as high as 325mg/day. NO ONE NEEDS THAT MUCH METHADONE.

What we need is the opposite. If I could have just weaned off the heroin in a controlled environment (like maybe if I lived in Portugal), it would have been so much better than trying to kick this methadone habit ON TOP of all my other addictions.
Title: Re: Methadone clinics are fucking evil.
Post by: OpiXPO on March 06, 2017, 06:14:14 AM: Quote from: onewayonly on September 20, 1974, 09:14:29 AM
Just went to Florida for 10 days with no problem guest dosing.
Hope it goes the same in LA in a few months.

https://detoxtorehab.com/directory/baart-programs-avalon-blvd-ca/ looks like they do guest dosing. Honestly I didn't realize that was a thing and was my biggest hurdle to getting on the done.
Title: Re: Methadone clinics are fucking evil.
Post by: Lolleedee on March 06, 2017, 07:04:21 AM: I have to correct one thing you said..there are most certainly people who need 325 mg a day. People with severe liver disease and people who are on antiretrovirals and certain seizure drugs make methadone doses much less effective...with antiretrovirals cuts methadone efficacy in half. That together with the fact that everyone responds to it differently and the fact that with methadone the size of your dose is not always correlated to the size of your habit, is the reason why exclaimations like this regarding dose should not be said. Not only does it add to the stigma, but it also is what keeps doctors from giving doses that actually work!

I think you have a glorified look at heroin maintenance. If the program really consisted of them giving you just enough to be well and then decreasing your dose, do you honestly think you would be successful at that? If weaning works for you, then why not just buy a brick and wean yourself down? It doesn't make a bit of difference if you show up at a clinic to get your dose of heroin. If it doesn't get you where you want to be, then chances are you will be right out on the street to "top up".

Also, if you think methadone is "liquid handcuffs", then being on a heroin maintenance program is like fucking solitary! The programs that I read about have clients go two to three times PER DAY and then they give them a dose of methadone to carry them through the night anyway! Shit, this is basically the "program" I was on before I was on a real program!

I see you searching very hard to find a panacea, where you can use the drugs you want and also have the life you want. There is no other country, drug policy or magic that is going to accomplish that and until you realize that you can't have both, you are going to be constantly spinning your wheels and forever bemoaning about how your life sucks.

It's not easy. Even methadone isn't easy. It's purpose is to stop your body and head from screaming so you can do the work of getting better. Jumping to a country with a more liberal drug policy sounds great and if you go there you will probably avoid things like jail for personal possession. But you won't escape the black cloud of addiction that comes as we get worse.

You can never outrun yourself. When you finally get to the headspace where you finally realize deep in your gut that YOU are all you have, then and only then will you be willing to put the effort into making you who you want to be. Remember, wherever you go, there you are..the common denominator of everything you do and everywhere you go is you!
Title: Re: Methadone clinics are fucking evil.
Post by: onewayonly on March 06, 2017, 07:56:52 AM: Quote from: OpiXPO on March 06, 2017, 06:14:14 AM
Quote from: onewayonly on September 20, 1974, 09:14:29 AM
Just went to Florida for 10 days with no problem guest dosing.
Hope it goes the same in LA in a few months.

https://detoxtorehab.com/directory/baart-programs-avalon-blvd-ca/ looks like they do guest dosing. Honestly I didn't realize that was a thing and was my biggest hurdle to getting on the done.

Yea i have to travel for my job a little bit and my parents live half the country away. Guest dosing has been easy and effective for me. Just make sure to line it up a month out so you have time to fix any fuck up.
Title: Re: Methadone clinics are fucking evil.
Post by: gnossos on March 06, 2017, 08:34:11 AM: Quote from: Lolleedee on March 06, 2017, 07:04:21 AM
I have to correct one thing you said..there are most certainly people who need 325 mg a day. People with severe liver disease and people who are on antiretrovirals and certain seizure drugs make methadone doses much less effective...with antiretrovirals cuts methadone efficacy in half. That together with the fact that everyone responds to it differently and the fact that with methadone the size of your dose is not always correlated to the size of your habit, is the reason why exclaimations like this regarding dose should not be said. Not only does it add to the stigma, but it also is what keeps doctors from giving doses that actually work!

I'm glad you pointed that out, I forget that methadone clinics are for pain management. However, I was speaking in the context of addiction recovery, not pain management. What I meant was that I can't imagine any opiate addict legitimately needing a dose so high just for maintenance.
Title: Re: Methadone clinics are fucking evil.
Post by: dizzle on March 06, 2017, 09:11:18 AM: If I'm not mistaken they don't force u to go up: they recommend it if ur still dropping hot, esp for heroin bc that's obviously not making u quit the drug u came in there to quit.

So they may recommend it but I doubt they force u.

Don't put numbers on what is too much for U or someone else.

Enough is when u can feel stable (not sick) in brtween doses and seen friending for dope like.a mofo.

That's it. Numbers are secondary and shouldn't even be used to evaluate if ur "too high" or "too low"

If u walk in with that kisser you WILL FAIL. That's a guarantee
Title: Re: Methadone clinics are fucking evil.
Post by: OpiXPO on March 06, 2017, 09:30:42 AM: How does your family react to you being on methadone? I guess my other big block to getting on it is my own family. They finally started talking to me again this past week and spoke of letting me move in with them while I work things out.
Title: Re: Methadone clinics are fucking evil.
Post by: OpiXPO on March 06, 2017, 10:26:04 AM: Quote from: dizzle on March 06, 2017, 09:11:18 AM
So they may recommend it but I doubt they force u.

I've done some reading that in the New England states, there are judges forcing people on to naltrexone or vivitrol if they dont take the oral naltrexone. Those judges need to be disbarred in my opinion.
Title: Re: Methadone clinics are fucking evil.
Post by: Z on March 06, 2017, 10:51:46 AM: I think robojunkie said he was on more than 325 and still sick. I've heard of people along up to a gram and being functional. You can say what you need, but using absolutes like nobody ever will always be wrong.

An old friend peaked around 7g of stronger then retail ecp a day when he was moving weight. The kind of dope where people buy a point and some people split that in two. Who knows how much methadone he would have needed if he stopped at that point.
Title: Re: Methadone clinics are fucking evil.
Post by: Lolleedee on March 06, 2017, 04:46:36 PM: Quote

I'm glad you pointed that out, I forget that methadone clinics are for pain management. However, I was speaking in the context of addiction recovery, not pain management. What I meant was that I can't imagine any opiate addict legitimately needing a dose so high just for maintenance.

I wasn't talking about pain management. I was referring to treating people with addiction who also have to take antiretrovirals (for those with HIV/AIDS) or those with liver disease (think hep C here..or cirrhosis) or those of us addicts, like me who are lucky enough to have epilepsy and are treated with certain anticonvulsants that effect methadone absorption rates.

You are right that people who go from pain management to the clinic are often on insane doses of drugs/ I was one of them with an insane fentanyl (among other things)habit. I have met many people in the same situation.

Like I said, the complex pharmacology of methadone means no two people metabolize it the same way and size of habit dose not equal size of dose. Numbers shouldn't even matter in methadone treatment. You go up until withdrawal symptoms are gone and cravings are gone..or at least manageable. On a correct dose, you should not be sedated and sloppy. You can't be forced up on your dose. If you continue to drop dirty they will likely increase your dose. When you are on 'enough" you wont bother trying to get high anymore...unless you aren't really trying to get better.
Title: Re: Methadone clinics are fucking evil.
Post by: dizzle on March 06, 2017, 10:34:14 PM: Quote
How does your family react to you being on methadone?

Here's how that went for me,

When I first got on it they were like "omg anything but what you're currently doing will be a win" since I was basically homeless and just wandering the streets scrounging up enough money to get high each day

Then about 6 months after I was in it I was able i hold down a job and moved into an apartment. At that point they are always asking "when are u going to get off that stuff? Have u lowered your dose?"

Then about 6 months after that I got a really good job (the one I'm currently at) working for a control valve company doing paper pushing and shit. Then they said "well things are going well so maybe it's not the right time to get off it"

Then I excelled like fucking crazy in the job, ended up taking the position of head engineer for design and implementation.

It was then they finally understood, like for me the equation goes like this,

Dizzle + no maintenance = eventual jail and self destruction. But dizzle + methadone = success

Now they tell me this "if you want to be on it forever, we're fine with that, as long as you're happy"
Title: Re: Methadone clinics are fucking evil.
Post by: wanderingmind on March 07, 2017, 01:50:51 AM: Sounds like you've got a great support system Dizzle! I think having good friends and a loving family is the best "medicine" out there. I realize that there's no way that they can keep someone sober. But, once a person decides to change for the better, having a good support system in place is so incredibly valuable. I know for a fact that I would be long gone if I didn't have some really close friends and a wonderful family. The reason I know this is that they are the one big reason I have not killed myself.
Title: Re: Methadone clinics are fucking evil.
Post by: CARNi on March 07, 2017, 03:43:14 AM: Yes definitely awesome support system! I bet it's so much easier on a person.

Keep up the good work, son! (In my dad voice) 😉
Title: Re: Methadone clinics are fucking evil.
Post by: Chip on March 07, 2017, 05:50:14 AM: dizzle, that's got to be the best Methadone success story I have ever heard.
Title: Re: Methadone clinics are fucking evil.
Post by: onewayonly on March 08, 2017, 07:49:46 AM: Quote from: OpiXPO on March 06, 2017, 09:30:42 AM
How does your family react to you being on methadone? I guess my other big block to getting on it is my own family. They finally started talking to me again this past week and spoke of letting me move in with them while I work things out.

Kind of like dizzle said its way better than the heroin addicted alternative.
They haven't really said too much negative. They live a long ways apart but when I visited last time they seemed cool and didn't mind taking me each day. I mean I make good money and work every day.
So I just take it with what comes.
I feel I am doing well now so I think every one is different.
Title: Re: Methadone clinics are fucking evil.
Post by: nikita70 on April 08, 2017, 12:58:51 PM: THE METHADONE TALE-AMOR ETERNO

@gnossos ,

The question is not for methadone, the question is for the "chain" that binds/ties you with it, I mean for what it's (the chain's) nature and "lenght" is and who's the leash'/key/gate keeper, isn't it?
Methadone itself is nothing but just an extremely addictive sirup with a long half life, kind of synthetic opioid what binds with your receptors tight, "until death do us part"-like...
However, it's very effective as for pain management and almost miraculous efficient in dealing with opiate withdrawal syndrome, symultanously being able to develope a habit way way worse than the previous one. If dope makes you struggle 5 days when sick then with methadone it's going to be about 5 months, maybe a little bit less.
Depending on where you are it could have tablet form or liquid face, usually it's liquid and might be orange, lemon or even raspberry flavoured.
You keep it in your fridge in a main place, you handle with it like with a loaded gun, as if it were able to explode in any moment, and your hands getting always a little bit unsteady as you reach it.
Even the idea IT might somehow slip out of your hand and get wasted scares the shit out of you/makes a shot trembling you.
But you don't need to be worried, at least so far you have much enough.
The point is the shortage/or even completely drought could happen not only if you carelessly let the bottle slip out of your hands so it's going to be wasted.

Methadone is a key that's able to close and open you, to turn you on or off (or both). The relevant question is who has the key to the Key?
In a perfect world you do. Exactly the same way you keep the gate of your fridge, lol.
This is fucking rude to rummage someone's fridge, isn't it? Not even to mention meddling into one's receptors.

But since the world we are dwelling is fucking far from being perfect there's usually some fucking dumbass, ignorant, narrow minded, filister Master-Puppet hanging/rocking on the other side of the string. Not without reason they say about you're strung out, as you're drug addict.

Today I have ran across one of those very few oldtimers that still left alive.
Epicric-a guy kicked out of the clinic due to permanent speed abusing, an obstinate individual, zealous speed lover, no way to persuade.
Strung out on opiates/methadone since forever. I don't know about his last dose exactly (40?60?80?), but I truly doubt if 20 more or less would make any difference if you cold turkeying the 15 yrs long methadone habit of ANY size.
I'd bet even seemingly "poorly" 20 is much enough to make you sick as a dog if you run out of it.
He told me he did it purposely-I mean the decision to throw himself into this crossover, bloodcurdling kick he was struggling with 5 weeks long(!!!) was self imposed.
Goddamn, one needs have some real guts to do it, and I ALMOST find myself being somewhat envy/jealous for what he did.
This is something else, really.

So well, he decided to do it this roughly way since he got adviced not to jump for a bupe immediately after being cut off methadone.

They told him openly they wanted him to be in full blown w/d, so an instant switch or any PWDs related not to deter/discourage him as he's going to enter the new treatment. They wanted make sure he's going to appreciate the power of relief and let the bupe to develope its full potency, as he gathers his first dose.
Being some minded person, he considered it to be a reasonable solution, to let the system get rid of this shit completely.

He spent 5 weeks on the bedside, in excrutiating, agonizing pain.
He reported he barely remembers this days, as if all the drudgery he went through got somehow... blurred, melted away into one single episode of terror and insanity. He told me he didn't sleep a wink all this time. I have to cringe every time I figure it out.
As they finally gave him his first dose of the bupe it was like a Godsend, pure bliss. I found him in relatively good shape, glad he got rid of the "chain" finally, kinda braced, refreshed. He told me all the torment was worth of it.

Despite the happy ending (one might be as well not so strong and fortunate) this is what the fucking clinics brings people to, one way or another.

How could some shrink dwell about "possibly danger for life" in context of interaction between methadone and some other shit and symultanously to kick the person out of the clinic sending them straight into tremendous, excrutiating withdrawal-"due to the violation of the rules"?
Isn't non-drug assisted methadone' w/d life-threatening?

How the same dumbass, ignorant dissembler who "cares on" your daily supplies of probably the most addictive drug ever known (I mean the potency to develope some enormous huge w/d syndrom) dares to harass you, dressing-down and deprive of your "privileges" because you have positive tested for this and that, as any other shit is like a piece of cake comparing to what they give to you?
And as for "cakes", I heard some guy telling he got his take homes cancelled since the tests showed some trace amounts of opies, after he has some poppy-cake eaten. The doc told him openly they were too tiny to be a result of some dope using. I'm only curious how they justified it in documents. "The patient abuses/indulges himself with poppy-cakes"? Fucking joke.
Isn't it akin to a situation they put you in jail for having a pocket knife as they provides you with a machine gun day by day?

I never saw so many contradictions putting together before I have joined MMT-clinics are like some dens, some backwoods of absurdity.

I wish I could hope this whole "prohibition tomfoolery" is just a single, fleeting, temporary episode/pang, an explosion of insanity, in the history of the mankind that never ever is going to be continued, but since things are how they are I'm rather along the line it's going to be replaced by some another pang of insanity, hatred, hostility, as anti-drug hystery will be/is going to be burnt out/expired. Things seem to be intermingling indeed, but looks there will be always some counterpart of "fascism" or some anti-drug hystery existing, one way or another.
Title: Re: Methadone clinics are fucking evil.
Post by: Chip on April 08, 2017, 04:59:40 PM: yes Nikita, I remember always getting nervous when handling my Methadone - I'd tell myself not to fumble and spill it or knock it over. I couldn't use because I had no veins and I couldn't afford to then anyway.

to me, having my dose always felt like averting a major catastrophe.

having a good clinic, doctor and privileges made life so much easier and that wasn't always the case.

it's been almost 6 months since I came off Methadone and I'm still sneezing a few times a day.

I still think that Methadone is a godsend.
Title: Re: Methadone clinics are fucking evil.
Post by: dizzle on April 10, 2017, 05:10:21 AM: Wow there a def some bad clinics and doctors/nurses/counselors out there.

I, however, have a great one. In Chicago there are a plethora of clinics to choose from, and I went with the best of the best. It's private, and the head Dr and I are now on a first name basis, the nurse that works on days when I pickup sneaks me bottles of 1000 or 1500 mgs when she can (for a nice payment), and my counselor is amazing.

I'll give u an example, to contrast with Nikita's story above.

I was going out of the country, to Southeast Asia, I met with the dr, he basically said "what do u want the travel note to say? I'll write anything you're comfortable with as long as it's not a boldfaced lie." See, I wanted to go to Japan, and they had given me shit about being on methadone, the dr wrote a letter to the narcotics head of japa. On my behalf, and it still didn't fly. So the dr actually was willing to take me as a patient in his private practice and prescribe me methadone as a dr/patient relationship now a clinic/addict relationship. Though since I already told Japan I was on methadone and at a clinic the jig was up, so I didn't want to risk it. Also, before I left his office he said "when ur in Hong Kong go to the bar at the 4 seasons, it great, and they make a fantastic manhattan there, of course I didn't tell u to try that, being on methadone and all ur not supposed to drink alcohol" and he gives me a wink.

On to my counselor, one time I had dirty pisss, I had used dope and she dropped me. I just put water I. The cup and left, figured I'd tell her I drank a bunch of coffee or something and it must've been watered down.

Well a week later I call her to tell her my urine sample may show up weird, she stops me and says "I know already, did u put water in that shit?" Uhhh..... yes, it was water.

She says "I know because I was packing up the samples to send them to the lab and saw it, then I saw ur patient number and I already knew it was water. So I threw that shit in the garbage so u didn't have a failed drop. Why'd u do that?

I say "Well I got high and knew I was gonna fail it."

She says "next time that happens just tell me what's up. I don't want to fuck you up and get a dirty drop in ur records. Once it's sent to the lab there's no removing the results. If that ever happens again just say 'I can't drop today, im in a hurry', then when we get a chance we can talk about it"

I was like "wow. Ok. Thanks. I'm sorry"

She said dont apologize but don't do some dumb shit like that again.

So, in contrast with the story above, I can say I have a great clinic, dr, conselor, nurse, and I can name my own dose, and it costs $60 a week regardless of the dose I'm on. I get 2x month pickups, and it's just smooth sailing for me.

Not everyone ends up with my story, but I can tell u it is definitely possible......
Title: Re: Methadone clinics are fucking evil.
Post by: Snoop on April 10, 2017, 11:13:09 AM: Shoot man.... 1000-1500mg hook ups!

Fuck me running, that'd get me through some rough times.

Not that I'd take 1000mg at once.... wait, yes I would. Followed up by a benzo or five of some such sorts.

And then I'd sleep in the corner standing up, and reaching for imaginary shit, and dropping burning hot cig cherries on my clothes.

My stars the trouble I could get myself into.
Title: Re: Methadone clinics are fucking evil.
Post by: nikita70 on April 11, 2017, 01:26:03 PM: @dizzle ,

looks you're some lucky bastard living in a city huge enough you can pick and choose in clinics 8).

I don't doubt/deny good practice in MMT still exists, as I spent 16 years long as an "established", "respected", "promising" patient in my clinic, enjoying ALL kind of privileges before this place went wrong last year (permanently take homes since I got pregnant and gave and birth to my daughter shortly after I joined the program, "waybills" for my methadone any time I wanted to leave foreign, relatively flexible time of take homes etc.).

This is fucking insane what has been happening to this clinic since the new shrink is in charge-seems as if he somewhat confused Harm Reduction with drug free attitude, he tries to kinda implement into the "treatment" some threads that might be possibly working for people in NA or so (drug free oriented), but for MMT are completely useless.
He's like "You should to avoid ANY kind of opies, even if it's just a poppy-cake. The same way alkoholics are condidered to relapse as they ate rum flavoured candy, so don't be so surprised if I'm going to cancel your take homes for what you guys used to call a 'thingie', since it isn't a thingie', it's some serious stuff.
Sure, fucker, "serious stuff" as an opposite to methadone w/d after 15 yrs of being strung out, right? "What's the problem is like with you, dude? Withdrawal is nothing but just what you find on the other side of some tasty one piece of poppy cake."
I think this guy needs someone to help him learn a lesson.

May God save us from sobriety' freaks.

However, since nature abhors vacuum, methadone from the most abundant/afluent and indulgent clinics in other areas flows to "methadone' orphans" in Krakow (city where I am) that let high and dry, so we can feed our habit more or less, the business conducts, the black market is in bloom... and no one fucking soul saved by this dangerous freak. Just a little bit extra of woe, misery, suffering and maybe another few biting a dust.
They fucking never ever learn.

Ok, there're exceptions, some does. I have a private arrangement with an old doctor, who has contributed a lot to the clinic arose and has ran it at the very beginning. He got kicked out for he often has turned a blind eye for what happens in clinic, prescribing benzos and generally for being not "meticulously" enough.

I meet him private, he charges about $25 per visit (plus about $20 I need to leave in pharmacy, as it's not covered by insurance) but since he's allowed to prescribe me only 300mgs for two weeks or even less, it isn't able to fix me for this time, no way, even if I can afford it.

Still need to support extra and rely on my freakish, arrogant and completely fucked up dealer, listen to the craps he puts me every time I meet him and playing this stupid game "we are good buddies, it's nothing else but just friendly favor what you do to me as I'm in need and have hard times, I have no idea this shit is cut so I barely can feel any trace of methadone in it YOU STUPID FUCKER!!!".
[/i]

Sucks.
Title: Re: Methadone clinics are fucking evil.
Post by: dizzle on April 12, 2017, 12:16:36 PM: Wait.... u can't afford $25 and $20 every two weeks?

Wow. What does ur dealer charge?

That's less than $100 a month Something doesn't make sense there. 300 every 2 weeks is like 20mg a day only. That's not a lot, sure, but should be enough to keep u out of horrible was, no?

Also, what in the fuckkng fuxl? Did u lose take homes for eating poppy seed cake, for real? Or was it a "got high and got caught with opies in ur piss and lied and said u are poppy seed cake"--situation??? Don't lie!!!!
Title: Re: Methadone clinics are fucking evil.
Post by: Thoms on April 12, 2017, 12:24:08 PM: Lol at 300 every two weeks. Your country should know that isn't enough for my 2 days lol!
Title: Re: Methadone clinics are fucking evil.
Post by: nikita70 on April 13, 2017, 11:26:48 AM: Quote from: nikita70 on April 08, 2017, 12:58:51 PM
(...)
And as for "cakes", I heard some guy telling he got his take homes cancelled since the tests showed some trace amounts of opies, after he has some poppy-cake eaten. The doc told him openly they were too tiny to be a result of some dope using. I'm only curious how they justified it in documents. "The patient abuses/indulges himself with poppy-cakes"? Fucking joke.
Isn't it akin to a situation they put you in jail for having a pocket knife as they provides you with a machine gun day by day?
Quote from: nikita70 on April 11, 2017, 01:26:03 PM
@dizzle ,

(...)
I meet him private, he charges about $25 per visit (plus about $20 I need to leave in pharmacy, as it's not covered by insurance) but since he's allowed to prescribe me only 300mgs for two weeks or even less, it isn't able to fix me for this time, no way, even if I can afford it.

Quote from: dizzle on April 12, 2017, 12:16:36 PM
Wait.... u can't afford $25 and $20 every two weeks?

Wow. What does ur dealer charge?

That's less than $100 a month Something doesn't make sense there. 300 every 2 weeks is like 20mg a day only. That's not a lot, sure, but should be enough to keep u out of horrible was, no?

Also, what in the fuckkng fuxl? Did u lose take homes for eating poppy seed cake, for real? Or was it a "got high and got caught with opies in ur piss and lied and said u are poppy seed cake"--situation??? Don't lie!!!!

@dizzle , @Thoms

wait...
looks we have at least two relevant misunderstandins here.
Nikita doesn't lie... and if at all, then not to the fellow O'philes/d&users :)).
I can only blame my poor English for my expression being not clearly/lucid enough.
As for being poor-hey, even if my English is "poor", I'm not so much. Looks my English is poorer than I am. (flat joke)

I never said I CAN'T AFFORD what the doc charges, on the contrary, I said that even if I CAN AFFORD IT (maybe I needed to word it like "even since I can afford it", or "even being able to afford it"), the maximum of what he's in position to offer me is still the drop in the ocean of need-this is exactly what I meant.
It isn't money issue, it's still regulation/law issue I have to struggle with at this point.
$45 ($25 per visit plus about $20 per methadone itsef) every two weeks is passable to me, it's half of what my currently dealer charges for his shamelessly cut shit and 1/4(!) of what my previous vendor required, since he has developed a monopoly and cared on at least half population of "methadone' exilers".
(btw, the guy's biting a dust for less than a month, passed away for actually no one specific reason, once he landed in hospital he never left it anymore, we could only guess that being so voracious he has developed a huge habit, what might somehow contributed to his death, as got to the ward high and dry and the staff has probably downplayed it as they usually do. Greedy or not-good guy anyway, I liked his stuff being always pristine pure and respected him for talking openly/honestly about "not being here for a charity". I miss the guy, not only his stuff.).

Currently I do rely on three different sources-I'm tryin' to grasp any occasion since I lost the regular supplies. This is so fucking stressfull and frustrating to permanently keep an eye on "where in the city someone is going to shed few drops of the sirup" and get there in the right time. As a street junkie I was basically pretty unconcerned and used not to freak out as something went wrong, but since I have joined the maintenance I got spoiled and permanently bothered for my stash. Getting oldier doesn't help, too.

I have to concoct some way to "bleed this doc dry" since I suppose he might "quibble" in order to see me as often as possible for an obvious money-reason.

Not so positive at all whether this poor 300 every two weeks is all he's allowed to prescribe, by the other hand, I know all the procedure is a little bit "shady"/informally, in the best case something definitely unusual (as far I know), since he needed to apply for some special permission to get the proper receipe forms.

As I entered his office first time and asked him to care on me, he denied firmly telling he's absolutely not entitled to do things like that. It took a little to convince him to change his mind and I truly doubt money were the "ultima ratio". It just doesn't work this way.

Regulations are pretty restrictive as for methadone over here.
There's some very firmly and distinct line between the pain management' and opiate substitution' purposes drawn, so to say. Kinda "Methadone Apartheid".

"Scripts system" is meant only as a way of pain management, it is targeted to a very small population of the people and involves only some tiny doses, like few milligrams a day or so.

The "substitution version of the game" (what allows and deals with doses higher than few miligrams per day) is reserved for and ruled by only government institutions (like clinics/hospitals).

However, clinics are in many ways independent and self-governing, and the regulation/law is thus formulated so it could be interpreted for 1001 ways regarding on the chief's willfullness.
There's an abyss between the possibly meanings of the word "failure", since it's so ambigous. It ranges from having positive tested for THC to opies, and "opies" might refer to being "caught" having poppy-seed cake eaten as well as to an episode of shooting up dope in the front of camera.

The term "failure" ("violation of rules") doesn't specify/settle about circumstances, amount etc. and possibly "consequences" related.

The doc does basing on another one euphemism-"the good/benefit of the patient".

In the same name of the "benefit of patient" I got kicked out on the street, are people in other, more reasonable and minded clinics warned they are going to be tested soon, so "you'd better watch your veins", lol.
I was just unfortunate to be under the worst, most narrow minded "interpreter" ever possible.

And as for cake-I didn't tell I lost my take homes for it-but my dealer did, indeed. (He's pretty much dumbass but since I have found him oh-so-much-frustrated as I know for sure he's clean-I'm willing to believe him).

I personally lost my take homes for using benzos, what I agreed gladly, since I have them prescribed in the same clinic for years.

The doc buzzed to me something like "the times they are a changin" and told he has heard rummors flying, indeed, about this "reprehensible procedures occuring" but since he's in charge it's gonna be definitely over. "Things are going to be straight again.", he said.

"Straight til getting wet", I mumbled, but he apparently didn't dig the joke.

"So what have I do?", I asked him kinda exalted, "I'm addicted to them but good, you know what benzo w/d is, doc. I need them to do, desperately. I don't expect you giving me scripts for them obviously, but I'd be thankfull if you'll turn the blind eye. You can always just miss them as you order tests, can't you. Doc?"

("Damn, you sure is greedy for this stuff" ;D)

"My heart is bleeding but I can't do it for you, miss Nikita, no matter how sorry I feel but you'd better forget it since I declared war on any "oversights" in this clinic. Right the next door is psychiatric ward I shall to send you to the detox, can you see it? I want you be there within the month unless I'm going to arrange a real merry-go-round for you in this clinic before I get rid of you. Although it's going to be rather like hell..."
Well, one hell or another, doc...

CURTAIN
Title: Re: Methadone clinics are fucking evil.
Post by: Smacky-Doodle 2.0 on April 14, 2017, 11:53:12 PM: Quote from: dizzle on April 10, 2017, 05:10:21 AM
It's private, and the head Dr and I are now on a first name basis, the nurse that works on days when I pickup sneaks me bottles of 1000 or 1500 mgs when she can (for a nice payment), and my counselor is amazing.

Damn, son! I wouldn't dream of questioning the authenticity of this.....but, how in the BLUE FUCK do you swing that? At MY clinic, if 10mg comes up missing when they do periodic pill counts, they're calling everyone that came in to dose that morning and asking if they were over-served.

Im assuming that it's liquid at your clinic, and maybe it's easier to fudge the books than with tablets. 1500mgs extra? That's just crazy to me, you got a good thing going on.
Title: Re: Methadone clinics are fucking evil.
Post by: Tainted on April 15, 2017, 03:15:49 AM: the clinic i goto is awesome. non profit and subsudized by the state so its max 25/wk without ins but the ppl there get you on insurance with the state so you get free bus passes and the clinic becomes free. they do as much as they can so your not getting holds to see counselore very week, you have to do the bare minimum required by the state (sometimes the state even fines them for doing too little) which is awesome i think. they offer different groups like all day everyday but your required to goto one every other month (and see your counselor every other month alternating)

the clinic i went to in FL kind of sucked and were really strict with what they thought your treatment should be heads up their asses, but the clinic im going to now is a little more open to letting you do what you think is best for yourself (so long as it seems like your doing well) although ive had friends bitch saying the opposite, that they push your dose way up and dont ever want you going down least not for a few years (and if you force them to go down before like 18 months they can become hostile but dont have a choice) but im not at that point dont know, but if it wasnt for how awesome this clinic is, i wouldnt have been clean for these last few months (only been clean longer then a few weeks maybe 3 times in last 10yrs) been able to get an apartment/move across country. so i def dont think theyre evil

edit: and they even hooked me up with an EXTRA bottle. so ive been going there for 4 months, so EVERYONE gets a sunday bottle cause they arent open. after 90 days, you get your first bottle if you test clean every time and do everything you need to/are paid up. so i got that, then i requested a second one after a month and another drug test, they told me normally you arent supposed to get another one that quick but because im coming at 530am for work 6 days a wk they would talk to supervisor and try to get it approved cause you can interpret the guidelines subjectively they said. when it finally got approved, i got approved for 2 bottles instead of 1, so im getting fri/sat/sun/mon bottles now and its only been 4 months.

and honestly, hearing ppl bitch about how terrible methadone is gave me all the justification i needed to not try it for myself. thats obviously on me but i thought methadone was terrible for years and years.
Title: Re: Methadone clinics are fucking evil.
Post by: Tainted on April 15, 2017, 03:22:50 AM: Quote from: Smacky-Doodle 2.0 on April 14, 2017, 11:53:12 PM
Quote from: dizzle on April 10, 2017, 05:10:21 AM
It's private, and the head Dr and I are now on a first name basis, the nurse that works on days when I pickup sneaks me bottles of 1000 or 1500 mgs when she can (for a nice payment), and my counselor is amazing.

Damn, son! I wouldn't dream of questioning the authenticity of this.....but, how in the BLUE FUCK do you swing that? At MY clinic, if 10mg comes up missing when they do periodic pill counts, they're calling everyone that came in to dose that morning and asking if they were over-served.

Im assuming that it's liquid at your clinic, and maybe it's easier to fudge the books than with tablets. 1500mgs extra? That's just crazy to me, you got a good thing going on.

i could see that working with liquid. when the nurses spill any of the dose (cause they are on the their phoners and not paying attention and suck) and you call them out on it they dump out the cup and pour a new one then wipe up the counter. it seems like the computer has a "SPILLED REDOSE" button as it happens a lot and isn't a big deal seemingly.
Title: Re: Methadone clinics are fucking evil.
Post by: dizzle on April 17, 2017, 01:02:37 PM: Quote from: Smacky-Doodle 2.0 on April 14, 2017, 11:53:12 PM

Damn, son! I wouldn't dream of questioning the authenticity of this.....but, how in the BLUE FUCK do you swing that? At MY clinic, if 10mg comes up missing when they do periodic pill counts, they're calling everyone that came in to dose that morning and asking if they were over-served.

Im assuming that it's liquid at your clinic, and maybe it's easier to fudge the books than with tablets. 1500mgs extra? That's just crazy to me, you got a good thing going on.

@Smacky-Doodle 2.0

You're spot on it is liquid.

To be honest it was really weird how it started. First I'd come in and she just give me my dose, then one day I put the cup back up on the counter while I was talking to her and she filled it up again....

I was like "huh??"

I didn't say anything but just looked at her and she gave me a look like "go ahead and take it"

I did. And I said "well it's gonna be a good afternoon!!"

She laughed.

Next time I came in she said she had to give me a shot and to go to the back window (no cameras back ther)

She hands me a bag with a bottle that had 150mL in it. At 10/mg/ml that was 1500. I was like holy fuck. I didn't have any cash so I asked what time she gets off. She told me. And I met her down the street and gave her like $250

She was happy to get it.

So from that point on every few weeks she'd call me and we'd do an exchange like that.

That lasted for like a year or so. Then a new head nurse took over and they locked down the rules more.

I just saw her the other day and she said she had sometime for me so I guess it's not totally dead but it has been slowed down a lot more. I'm guessing I'll only get a bottle every few months or so but still. Who'd complain??

Why me? I don't fuckkng know? I guess she knew I had the $$ and would keep my mouth shut. She probably sees a lot of people that would love to get that deal but apparently she saw something in me she could trust....

To be honest, it sounds kinda crazy, right? Like "no fuckkng way man!" But trust me, it's VERY real.
Title: Re: Methadone clinics are fucking evil.
Post by: Chip on April 17, 2017, 01:39:26 PM: 1500 mg would cost at least $750 on the street in Oz.

what a bargain !
Title: Re: Methadone clinics are fucking evil.
Post by: Raine on May 30, 2017, 06:15:53 AM: I have mixed feelings on it. I have only experienced clinics here in my state (LA) and it's been a mixed bag. Some of the counselors are better than others (by a whole lot) like they actually care and will really do what they can for you and others are just bare minimum don't give a shit. Even worse, I had an ex-addict religious creeper dude at the first clinic I went to and trying to get switched to another counselor was a huge deal, they don't allow it.

I feel like they are a for-profit business and while methadone can definitely help people, some clinics really don't care if people coming there truly need to be on it, they just want your money. I've never been on a wait list either like someone else mentioned, both clinics I went to did intake either that day or on their next specific "intake day."

You have to jump through a lot of hoops. Sometimes they make mistakes and they will be ones that end up unfair for you and there is no real recourse. It's a pain in the butt until you get your takehomes and it can take awhile to even get on a stable dose.

Without methadone though, I wouldn't have gotten very far. I know I needed it this time. I've done this enough times to know what I can handle and what I can't and I was not in the right place to get enough time under my belt to really change my habits with any of the other options I had available to me.

I don't think it's evil and I don't think it's a life saver. It's just a tool like anything else and the clinic system appears to be flawed but it's all we have for now unless you are outside the US or have a private Dr. to prescribe.

Also I totally understand what you mean about the people on pills at the clinic. If you've been on loratabs for 6 months, methadone is a bad, bad idea for you. If you've been taking massive doses of morphine and Dilaudid for years, then yea..I can see that. I just think it is over-used...too many people are trading up for a much worse addiction.

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