dopetalk
General => General Discussion for Everybody => Topic started by: Narkotikon on August 26, 2015, 12:05:04 PM
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As much as I dislike this being my first thread, I want to apologize to the members of our community.
Some of you may have noticed that I started deleting my negative karma points last week. I think it was last Wednesday. I deleted the points b/c I was irked that people were giving me so many negative points. I think that was partly to do with my views in the Opiophile Is Down thread.
I'm not going to lie and say I like the negative karma option, because I don't. I think the ability to give negative karma / rep opens the possibility for abuse, thereby causing discord on the board. I think it hurts the communal feel. And speaking for myself, I don't need a constant, visual reminder that some people disagree or dislike me. It's not a good feeling. It's even more irksome b/c you don't know who's giving you the points (positive or negative).
That being said, when I deleted my points I should have thought about it. I didn't. I simply got fed up, went to my profile settings, and deleted the numbers. I didn't think of how that would look or be interpreted.
I got an e-mail today from a friend, who said that someone had complained to them. I don't know who complained, but apparently it was from someone whom I'm friendly with. I was also told how that action is an abuse of my admin position. I read it, thought about it, and I happen to agree. Regular members can't delete their negative karma points, so I shouldn't be allowed to do that either.
My deleting of my negative points was no different than Jonny deleting all negative posts, threads, and VMs about him. If you aren't willing to take the negative, you're not entitled to the positive.
Therefore, I want to apologize for my actions. I also want to say that ANYONE who has a problem with how I'm doing things in an admin capacity are more than welcome to contact me personally (public or private via PM or e-mail) and talk to me about it. The door is always open for everyone.
I was somewhat disheartened that the complaining party felt they couldn't come to me directly. Had I been told this offended some people right after it happened, I would have changed things earlier. So please, feel free to talk to me directly. I'm sure the other mods / admins feel the same.
Part of what makes this board great is that there's the possibility for an open, honest exchange of dialog. That wasn't possible before, at least not publicly. That is only possible though if we all express ourselves.
To be fair and to resolve this, I've decided to not participate in the karma system. Whenever I get positive OR negative karma points, I will delete them. I think I had -5 karma points when I deleted them originally. I could be wrong about that though. I know I deleted +16 points today. If people would prefer me to reinstate that instead, that is certainly up for discussion too. I'm just trying to resolve the matter.
I've asked Chipper if there's a way to disable the karma system on a case-by-case basis. If that happens, I'll most likely disable my karma system. If the ability to give negative points is ever disabled, I'll probably reinstate my karma system. I will start with 0 points for positive and negative in that case. I don't think it's fair to re-add the +16 points from today.
Again, I apologize for the abuse of my admin position. I hope those who were offended are able to forgive me, along with everyone else.
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it may take a little time for me to either tweak the current system or look for an alternative.
I did try another reputation system but I couldn't overcome the installation errors.
I know it's not nice to get negative rep. but if it stops you to think long enough about why, maybe it's a good thing.
and I do agree that you may want to opt out.
it might be time to modify the forum's php code but I have to figure out where, what and how.
please be patient as I only really look into programming and more complex issues, only once a week.
about the same time as I put my tweaker's hat on ;)
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please be patient as I only really look into programming and more complex issues, only once a week.
It's okay Chipper. I'll be patient about it. Take your time, and work around your own schedule. Whatever's good for you. I just wanted to address this publicly to set things straight.
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us hu? and how have you abused the rep system nark?
And did you go though and us ha? and how have you abused the rep system nark?
And did you go though and repare everyone else or just yourself?
Don't worry' I don't expect you did i'm just pointing it out.
Oh and I didn't write any email either.
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Second I can turn me rep off it's gone.
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I hate the concept but we need SOMETHING to show new people who has been here a while and who's bought a grave plot already.
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us hu? and how have you abused the rep system nark?
And did you go though and us ha? and how have you abused the rep system nark?
And did you go though and repare everyone else or just yourself?
Don't worry' I don't expect you did i'm just pointing it out.
Oh and I didn't write any email either.
I'm not quite sure what you're getting at, as I assume you're on benzos, but....
1. I didn't alter anyone else's karma system. I wouldn't do that.
2. Yes, I've given out some negative rep. For the correct reasons though (IMO): disagreeing with posts, bad posts (badly written, silly posts, etc.). Not to be vindictive. If people would rather I not give out rep, we can discuss that. I don't exactly see why someone who's not receiving rep shouldn't give rep though. That's like saying someone who refuses to receive gifts shouldn't give gifts.
3. I didn't say the complaint was from you. I never thought that either. I said it was from someone with whom I'm friendly. I'm certainly able and willing to put things aside on a professional basis, to deal with people with whom there's a mutual dissatisfaction. But I wouldn't exactly call those people friends. There is possibility for a middle ground.
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us hu? and how have you abused the rep system nark?
And did you go though and us ha? and how have you abused the rep system nark?
And did you go though and repare everyone else or just yourself?
Don't worry' I don't expect you did i'm just pointing it out.
Oh and I didn't write any email either.
I'm not quite sure what you're getting at, as I assume you're on benzos, but....
1. I didn't alter anyone else's karma system. I wouldn't do that.
2. Yes, I've given out some negative rep. For the correct reasons though (IMO): disagreeing with posts, bad posts (badly written, silly posts, etc.). Not to be vindictive. If people would rather I not give out rep, we can discuss that. I don't exactly see why someone who's not receiving rep shouldn't give rep though. That's like saying someone who refuses to receive gifts shouldn't give gifts.
3. I didn't say the complaint was from you. I never thought that either. I said it was from someone with whom I'm friendly. I'm certainly able and willing to put things aside on a professional basis, to deal with people with whom there's a mutual dissatisfaction. But I wouldn't exactly call those people friends. There is possibility for a middle ground.
Nark, first of all, THANK YOU for apologizing. It means a lot because, like it or not, you are listed as an Admin & with that comes power. I didn't say anything about you deleting your negative karma, but yes, I noticed. It made me very uncomfortable given the obvious support you have here.
So once more cuz it matters: thank you for owning what you did. That's hard & it took humility and guts.
You said our concerns/thoughts can be addressed openly in this thread, so I'd like to share what I've been thinking lately. I mean this with nothing but good intentions AND just speaking as a member here ok?
A LOT of us have been hurt or have feelings about what has happened at the Phile. Just because I wasn't banned doesn't mean I don't "feel some kind of way" about the situation.
I like a lot of what you had to say there AND here. What got frustrating for me is your posts specifically in the Phile offline thread as well as to those you had a grudge with, or didnt agree with, were often... strongly communicated.
To be honest, the constant negativity was hard to read. This is why I agree w/Chipper that its not necessarily a bad thing to see if others don't agree with me (though like you, I won't feel good when its not positive).
I don't say this to make you feel bad, Im just asking you to put yourself in the other members' shoes: you're an Admin and when you're not happy with someone, you let them know about it in pretty strong terms. How likely are you going to feel any kind of comfortable "challenging" YOU??
You say when questioned about possible other improper actions "I would never do that", but I hope you see how if you change something to make yourself look better, a reasonable person could conclude that you indeed might?
Again, many of us have been stung by prior experiences elsewhere & I know it colored my reaction when I saw what you'd done. And yes, it did make me wonder about what else might be happening & if I should stick around. Because I dont want any part of that style of leadership/forum. This is why your apology is truly important to me.
You're reply above to Jega is a really positive one (calm, articulate & not tearing him up). That's what I hope folks expect to see from me as a mod b/c I want people to feel its ok to talk to me. The same should apply to Admins--just my .02
*This* reply is the Nark I know & support. Though we werent friends "over there" cuz I wasn't a longtimer, I read a ton of your stuff & I'm SO glad to see you again.
Thanks for hearing me out :). Warm regards to you, s&w
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Thanks for your reply S&W. The support and the concerns. I guess I felt my negativity over there was coming from me as a member, not as an admin. If that didn't come across, I'm sorry. I know some will disagree, but I do feel like what I said was justified. I feel completely vindicated now. I said my peace over there, and I'm completely willing to set things aside and try to get along now.
As for the concerns of what I "might" do. I realize that seems a tad illogical. If I'm willing to change my negative rep, why wouldn't I do it to someone else's rep, or something else? That's a valid point. Honestly though, although I get irritated when I receive negative rep. It really doesn't bother me when others do. That may seem harsh, but it's true. Since I'm not upset about it, I don't see the motivation to do anything about it.
The only time I'd ever change anyone's account would be IF they asked me. And even then it would depend on the request. For instance, if someone asked me to delete their negative rep, I'd have to say no. That's because the person who pointed it out to me explained it like this. Those points represent other members' votes. If you delete them, you're basically saying those members don't matter and don't have a say. So to delete my points, or another member's, I'd be playing dictator. I don't want this board to be that way either, especially since I hated that so much over there.
If anyone needs further reasoning for why I wouldn't do something like that. I can tell you that every single action an admin makes is logged and recorded. You can't even delete the entry until it's been there a day or two. I'm fairly confident that Chipper, and also possibly Nick, reviews those logs frequently. I'm sure if they saw something askew, they'd correct it, make it known, and / or address it. I wouldn't want either of them to be upset with me b/c I like and respect them both. I wouldn't want them to think less of me.
Also, if anything were changed to someone's account, all they'd have to do is contact Chipper / Nick, let them know what's up, and Chipper / Nick could check the logs to see who did it. I really don't think illegal changes would be hard to detect, let alone confirm. That's another reason why I wouldn't do anything like that. If it were me who did something, not only would Chipper / Nick be upset, but also the member who reported it. Plus, since we all communicate off-board to some extent, I'm sure that type of thing would get around at some point. I'd be called out, then be made into a pariah. I wouldn't want that. Not. At. All.
It all comes down to trust. I'd like to think that most people know I'm trustworthy. If they don't or are on the fence, I can only try to prove myself to be trustworthy and honest over time. Or, when the voting system is implemented, people would be free to vote me out. All of these mod / admin positions are temporary until then anyway. There are times I'd like to be a regular member. I didn't ask to be an admin. In fact, the first time Chipper asked me I said "thanks but no thanks." He made me an admin three days later b/c he said he wanted to expand my communication abilities (that was before the PM system was opened up to regular members).
I'm incredibly honored and flattered that he chose to do that, and I'll try to do my best in this position, but I'm certainly not as useful or skilled as some other mods / admins. I don't know IT, and I don't really care to. The thing I think I'm best at is answering questions and helping when I can. But then again, I've done that before as a regular member, and I can certainly do that again as one. Hopefully though, people will realize I'm trying to do the right thing. The important thing is that we're all talking about this.
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Thanks for the reply Nark. I appreciate what you said & it's certainly sufficient for me.
ps. Keep your head up, k?
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whoops, I gave you an applaud +1 prior to reading the last part about not participating , sowwy.
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whoops, I gave you an applaud +1 prior to reading the last part about not participating , sowwy.
LOL. No problem. It's deleted now.
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I kind of liked the no negative rep on the phile. It might not be meant that way, but it hurts peoples feelings in a "What's wrong with me??" Kind of way apparently.
For a bit I would turn off my rep, but then I would get rep and it popped back on. Ryan is a whiny bitch or sumwhat.
If it hurts people so much maybe the admins should just remove all the negative rep. We can have a gentleman's agreement not to neg folks, and just move on until chipper figures out another option.
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I dono why your so sensitive about getting negative karma points. All that means is someone disagreed with you. A lot of times thats a good thing.
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Thanks for the explaination, Nark. While I don't have a problem with you not participating in the Karma system, I do have a problem if we all don't have the choice or option to opt out. If it is something only you can do because you are an admin, then I don't think it is fair to the rest of us.
I personally like even the negative karma. When someone disagrees with me, through karma or on the board directly, it gives me the opportunity to examine my original position, learn about someone else's perspective and it helps me grow as a person. I find I learn the most from people who irk me and challenge my status quo!
However this plays out, with the negative karma being removed, or individual opt out, my ONLY concern is everyone has equal access to ALL options. If not, these little perks that us regular members don't have I could might have a polarizing effect on the board!
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I kind of liked the no negative rep on the phile. It might not be meant that way, but it hurts peoples feelings in a "What's wrong with me??" Kind of way apparently.
For a bit I would turn off my rep, but then I would get rep and it popped back on. Ryan is a whiny bitch or sumwhat.
If it hurts people so much maybe the admins should just remove all the negative rep. We can have a gentleman's agreement not to neg folks, and just move on until chipper figures out another option.
I saw this after I posted. That is a good idea, Z! While I am not sensitive to this kind of thing (the negative karma points), I know there are people who are and I want those people to feel unjudged and comfortable!
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I applaud your honesty Nark, coming out and saying what you did. I'd have probably just resigned my admin position instead, amid whispers of corruption and wrongdoing.
But I completely disagree with your opinion that if you opt out of the karma points system, that you should still be able to give out positive and negative karma points. How in the world do you reach that conclusion? You shouldn't be able to participate in the karma points system, yet be insulated from its effects on yourself.
The positive analogy you made with gift-giving is more apropos to the point you were trying to make, but is still inexact, because why would someone deny someone else the pleasure of giving them a gift? That in and of itself is kind of rude to say the least. And it's unfair. Like seriously, you think it's o.k. to say "hey you CANNOT give me any gifts" absolutely against the rules! But I can give you gifts all day long? That notion smells a bit of superiority as well. As if to say, your gifts are simply not good enough for me to accept in the first place.
But let's take the analogy of negative karma points and "gift-giving." Say you give someone a box full of dogshit, and then make a "rule" that nobody is allowed to give you a box full of dogshit. How is that fair?
But anyways, thanks for coming clean about your dishonest behavior. Takes some guts to do that.
tl/dr - kudos to you Nark for coming clean and being honest about some shady stuff you did. All forgiven.
But if you opt out of the karma system, then you must opt out completely, you don't get to do it only halfway.
- Zoops
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I see what you're saying Zoops and Lolleedee. I appreciate your critiques. I'm glad we all can talk about these issues.
Zoops, when I was using the analogy of gift giving, I wasn't thinking of someone saying "you absolutely can't give me a gift, but I can give you one." That is unfair. I was thinking of it in a different way. As in "I'm not comfortable receiving a gift, but I don't mind giving other people gifts." I know of some people like that. They really don't feel comfortable receiving, mainly because they think it's embarrassing to receive, but they don't have a problem giving. But you're right, that analogy doesn't really apply to negative rep / "gifts."
As for resigning my position, I actually PM'd Chipper about that about two weeks ago, before all that drama went down. I asked him if anyone had been complaining about me being an admin. I realize I have detractors that might be upset about it, for a variety of reasons. I said if that's the case, and he, Nick, and Candy would prefer me to not be an admin, I'd have no problem stepping down. I wouldn't want to have to be demoted in scandal or disgrace. Until a voting system is in place, I only addressed them, as they're the ones making decisions.
Lolleedee, I also agree with what you're saying. I'm currently opting out by deleting my positive and negative points whenever I see people giving me any. For instance, when I logged off last night I had to delete a positive point that Taytoechip gave me. Upon logging out I had +0 and -0. When I logged in just now, I had +2 and -2. So I had to delete those before I made this post. It's not a perfect system though. I can do that b/c admins (and possibly mods, I'm not sure) can alter those points. Regular members can't do that, and it isn't fair to them.
This is obviously an imperfect system. I can only say that when Chipper perfects the system, finds a better one, turns off the negative rep, or allows everyone to opt out by turning off their system on a case-by-case basis, this is the best thing I thought of. Or, like I said, I can just re-add the positive and negative points I altered, and simply endure the system until a permanent solution can be found. I'm open to whatever a majority of members want regarding this.
Honestly though, I'm not even sure what the totals would be anymore. I know I deleted +16 yesterday afternoon, then after I made this thread last night I had another +2 that I deleted, then a +1 from Taytoechip (I know because he said it was from him) before I logged off, then another +2 just now. As for negative, I think I had -5 when I deleted them last week. The day after I did that, when people first noticed, someone gave me a -1. Then I had a -2 upon logging in tonight. So if people would prefer, I could tally those and re-add them back.
But then the question becomes what's allowed in the tally, and is my memory absolutely correct. I'm sure the numbers from yesterday and today are correct, but I can't be sure about the numbers I originally deleted. I know when mods / admins edit posts, change forum / sub-forum features, move threads, delete threads and posts, those things get logged. I'm not sure about simple things like changing rep. I suppose I could find out if it's been logged. But then if I had to say I couldn't find those logs, would people even believe me, unless Chipper / Nick / Candy confirmed it? That creates more work for them though. This is all adding up to be more trouble than it's worth. I shouldn't have deleted the negative points in the first place, and now that I realize that, I'm sorry.
As for what Riddick said, yes, negative karma points, when used correctly, do allow someone to step back and evaluate things. That's only true though if the person cares or is the type to evaluate those things. Some people may not care about positive / negative points. Also, I do believe some people abuse the negative rep. They use it to be vindictive, and not only for simple disagreement or badly formulated posts. I believe that's true b/c I believe I know people's demeanors here pretty well. Also because it's just a statistical probability that at least one person is doing that. Plus, not everyone views negativity the same way you do. Some people are bothered by it. Some people don't want a constant, visual reminder that other people disagree with them, or think they suck. It's all dependent on how the negative karma system is used or perceived.
At the end of the day, the important thing is that we're discussing this. It's a good case study for how problems with mods / admins can be addressed. I know that Chipper, Nick, and Candy envisaged this place to be a democracy, and for people to feel comfortable and safe to honestly and openly discus things, especially those things that weren't tolerated or easily discussed before. And if a majority of members would prefer I deal with this karma / rep issue in a different manner, I'm fine with that. I'm open to suggestions.
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we do have equal access to what we all share but admins have always been able to do what they want.
Nark made a change, felt it unfair, apologised and moved on.
the rep. system is under review.
if you feel any other polarization then speak up.
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It's certainly an interesting psychological experiment going on here, what with the negative karma points potentially being awarded by fellow forum members. How does one perceive these negative "rep" points? Varies widely depending on whom you ask. Some people (sociopaths) give absolutely no shits about what anyone thinks of them, while others may give more of a shit and others obsess about it constantly (that's pathological too).
But even for someone who lies somewhere in the middle of the road insofar as how they perceive these negative karma points, it IS a constant reminder to them every time they log in that someone, somewhere very close, does not like something that they said, or doesn't like their character as a person (as much as you can gauge someone's character in an online forum where people rarely meet face to face), and that can have more of an impact on even your "psychologically normal" person (who is a fabrication, does not exist) than a passing face to face even screaming disagreement, or even slightly physical altercation would have had on that person. (run-on sentences much , Zoops?)
What I mean is that in real life, disagreements and even confrontations (verbal and physical) often can be forgotten before too long, but with this negative karma stuff, it's there for posterity to remember and remember and remember. And the recipient gets to see those negative points up there displayed on his dashboard right up in his face every time, for how long?
The thing that has not been addressed is: how are negative karma points being mitigated?
Is there some regime in place whereby negative rep points are "worked off" somehow?
(like through gaining positive points?)
And do the negative points somehow affect your positive points in any way whatever?
Has anyone thoroughly thought these issues through?
I hope so, but if not let them begin now. I have no say in how this whole thing plays out.
Thanks for letting me express my concerns in a safe place.
I just read my response up there ^^^ and thought "damn don't they have anything better to do?" But no, we don't, apparently. It's talking about "negative karma points" on an online forum for drug users/addicts fer cryin out loud! C'mon people (you, Zoops) you ain't got nothin' better to do than do complain about how "rep points" are handled on aforementioned online forum for drug users/addicts?
Ignore me, I'm high...spoutin off nonsense as per usual. Just idiot brain tryin to pretend it's smart.
- Zoops
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Just a suggestion since you are reconsidering the Rep System:
Maybe everyone should start off with like, -200 Smite Points, because, let's face it, we are all sinners in the 18 Eyes of a Vengeful, 4 Armed, Multiple-Headed God.
Only through our good works here can we gain enough Brownie Points (positive reps), which will lift our souls out of the miry clay of wyckedness, a set our feet upon the Rock of Redemption.
We need to be reminded of our goodly obligation every time we are here and see our dismal Reputation Status.
It should make us feel meek, so that we may one day inherit all of the poppy fields around the world.
We humbly ask this in thine name, Vatinoso, The Great One,
Amun!
Morfy
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I've read all the response and everyone made excellent points. Even though I am not bothered by the karma system I can see how it could be problem for some members...and because I want this place to, as best as it can, be a comfortable, welcoming place for all, I think we should just do away with the karma thing completely.
If a member has a problem with someone's post or position, then I feel it should be addressed out in the open, in a way that is respectful to ALL parties involved. Hiding behind "anonymous negative karma" to psycologically "jab" another member is cruel. I have to agree with Nark here that many (though not all by any means) use the negative rep as a "personal attack or tear-down".
If we want to have an atmosphere of loving acceptance and respect (which includes handling disagreements like adultss instead of whiney, spoiled, entitled children!) then, after considering all points of view, I (and I only speak for myself here) think we should just remove the karma system. That way everything , positive and negative will be handled in the open....and isn't that what we all wanted from another related site some of us had in common? Transparency should not only be financial, but should include ALL workings of the board.
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I feel like I'm such a safe place i'm wrapped in a blanket. :)
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I simply deduct the negative karma from the positive.
never will everybody agree on some point.
lets see what can be done here.
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I have no say in how this whole thing plays out.
I like and agree with most of what you're saying Zoops. I especially like the part about working off negative points by good deeds / positive points.
But I have to disagree with the quoted comment. I think you, like everyone else, does have a say in how this all plays out. This is a democratic board, and all members' concerns and opinions are taken into account. That will be even more apparent when the voting system is implemented. And even now, through discussion, we're all deciding what the best option is. Your voice DOES matter. Never feel as though it doesn't! :)
@ Morphy: LOL. I love the Christian overtones to your reply. Great mocking! ;)
@ Lolleedee: I also agree with your points. I have absolutely no problem with all karma / rep being disabled. I'd also be happy with just the negative rep option being disabled. Or also the ability to disable the system on a case-by-case basis. I actually like the last option the best. It allows those members who want to participate to be able to, and it allows those who don't to not. I'm guessing those who opt in don't have as much of a problem with negative rep, or none at all. Chipper is working on this, so it should be done within the next week or two I'm guessing.
Chipper's correct. He set up the current system to subtract negative points from the positive. It's just that the current setup doesn't display the total prominently.
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Whaa?
Deducting the negative from the positive points? How the hell do you expect any of our dearly stoned forum readers to appreciate the duality of man's true nature? Someone who has a shitload of positive points, and yet at the same time also has a assload of negative points would be a perfect illustration. Of course this person doesn't exist at present but you can imagine. They would come out as close to zero, despite many people having all sorts of strong feelings about them, both positive and negative.
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although, it does serve a bit of a purpose,
im torn between the neg rep system, but Im slightly on the 'do away with it' side.
aint no need for it, ultimately
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I'm for doing away with it. When I first joined and saw the feature, I had a bad feeling about it.
Nark I don't think that you should be giving out positive or negative rep if you are choosing to not participate in it yourself. If you are going to be using features that the rest of us don't have access to, it doesn't seem right to dole out points.
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I liked the "other" rep system as you could see who its from and the reason for it. If I were to get neg rep here then how would I know what I had done to upset anyone?
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Nark I don't think that you should be giving out positive or negative rep if you are choosing to not participate in it yourself. If you are going to be using features that the rest of us don't have access to, it doesn't seem right to dole out points.
That's fair. I promise not to give out rep, positive or negative, until this gets resolved permanently.
While I think me not giving out rep when I'm not participating doesn't apply to positive rep, it does to negative. It would be okay for me to give a positive"gift" while not being comfortable receiving one, but that doesn't apply to negative "gifts" / points. If I'm not willing to receive negative points, it shouldn't be okay for me to give them out. I agree.
To keep peace, I won't give out positive or negative points until this gets resolved.
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@ Nark:
Christian What??
@ Everyone:
Maybe, in all seriousness, make the SMITE button be worth [-0.25], or a negative quarter point. So that it would take 4, Smites to counter-act, or cancel 1, Positive rep.
Or maybe make the Smite worth one-third [-0.33], or one-tenth [-0.1].
Another good system is to have the Positive & Negative points separated and kept track of. So the Positives are stand-alone, and cannot be affected by the Negative Smite points, and Vice-Versa.
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Morphy: The overall message, not really the name of the deities. Stuff like the meek will inherit, standing on the Rock of Redemption, the mention of good works, etc. Those are all Christian / biblical references if I'm not mistaken.
I enjoyed your use of those through the lens of paganism (use of a multi-headed, multi-armed Hindu god, the use of Vatinoso, whichever deity that is).
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Morphy: The overall message, not really the name of the deities. Stuff like the meek will inherit, standing on the Rock of Redemption, the mention of good works, etc. Those are all Christian / biblical references if I'm not mistaken.
I enjoyed your use of those through the lens of paganism (use of a multi-headed, multi-armed Hindu god, the use of Vatinoso, whichever deity that is).
Narky, I was teasing with you--sorry, I can take things too far. I was under the influence of PST, which may explain my actions, but certainly doesn't excuse them!
THere was even some lyrics from an Old U2 Song (Forty) in the original as well! (strong Christian imagery--miry clay, redemption, etc...) you caught it!
I gave you an Applause Point for me being a jerk (how long will this applause last???)
Cheers
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It's all good. You weren't being a jerk. Sometimes I take things too literally when I read them. So your subtle joke just went over my head. :-[
If anything, you're more of a jerk b/c you gave me a point and I now have to delete it. LOL. Sorry, just a bad joke. You're really not a jerk.
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I liked the "other" rep system as you could see who its from and the reason for it. If I were to get neg rep here then how would I know what I had done to upset anyone?
we can simply ask people to mail you ? as i said, next week i will explore our options.
we are so keen to keep our peers happy, we need a system that won't be abused, if we have one at all.
i can turn it off with one click but for now, it's under review.
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If you guys choose to retain the karma system is there a way to let us see who posted what? It seems pretty lame that people can hide behind their keyboards and anonymously "smite" (lol at choice of term for the negative karmic action) or "applaud" their fellow members. Either way, I hope you all figure out a way for folks to opt out.
I liked how the phile only allowed positive rep actions but I didn't care for the anonymity aspect of things. Why not let us see what other individuals on here think about us? Gives you some insight as far as how you are acting and how you are being received and how you can ultimately rectify the situation if you so desire.
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If you guys choose to retain the karma system is there a way to let us see who posted what? It seems pretty lame that people can hide behind their keyboards and anonymously "smite" (lol at choice of term for the negative karmic action) or "applaud" their fellow members. Either way, I hope you all figure out a way for folks to opt out.
I liked how the phile only allowed positive rep actions but I didn't care for the anonymity aspect of things. Why not let us see what other individuals on here think about us? Gives you some insight as far as how you are acting and how you are being received and how you can ultimately rectify the situation if you so desire.
the phile also had a neutral rating option too i believe?
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I liked how the phile only allowed positive rep actions but I didn't care for the anonymity aspect of things. Why not let us see what other individuals on here think about us? Gives you some insight as far as how you are acting and how you are being received and how you can ultimately rectify the situation if you so desire.
You had to pay for that privilege, er, I mean right. ::)
I agree though, it should be made public...who's giving out what. It's really kinda pointless to give out points and not know who, what, why, etc. You have no idea how to change if you want to. I think it would also decrease abuse. People might not be so brazen about smiting others if they know their name is on it. As things are now, I think some think its a game. Gratuitous smiting is the new sporting rage apparently. >:( :( :o ::) :-[ :'( People on this board should be better than that, as this board is trying to be better than Opiophile regarding that type of behavior.
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Nark I don't feel that it was fair that you were choosing "not to participate" in the karma system when the rest of us didn't have a choice and had to retain our negative reputation points (that other members obviously felt we deserved just like the positive ones we received) when Chipper chose to implement the Positive-Negative deal as this guaranteed that you would end up without negative karma points while the rest of us had to deal with our actual karma score. I know were upset that you were being given a lot of negative points but the rest of us got some too and I saw some people who had more neg than positive (Jega comes to mind); so it was spread around a lot. You were the only mod I saw doing this- were you the only one though?
It's not some crazy big deal- I for one don't support any kind of karma system at this point despite my current overall positive score because it detracts from the true purpose of the forum IMO; but I don't think that type of behavior necessarily aligns with the way chipper has described and continues to describe this board as, since you were using your special status as an admin to perform an action the rest of us weren't entitled to, simply because you didn't like how other people were posting on your karma score. Others didn't like it either but we didn't have that special option. Obviously mods are always granted more privileges out of necessity on a forum but I just thought that wasn't the right thing to do, especially since later you chose to only remove negative points while retaining your positive points. If you were choosing "not to participate"- why didn't you end up removing it all so you'd end up with a straight zero after chipper changed everything?
Just food for thought, no hard feelings man. You said it was being abused- how so? And if you did clear everything before the change- please let me know so I can retract part of what I've said here. I only wanted to say this because of the effect it had when chip changed the system to the deduction type deal so sorry for being late to the party, so to speak.
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There's all different types of rep systems, on one forum I'm a member of we have "thanks", and it gives the members name and the time/date of the thanks given, no negativity.
I can see why some people would want the smite thing gone. Who wants to smited? :)
Nark you're a good egg.
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Hi Monk-- I don't want to derail your questions to Nark. But in case other members are wondering, I can only speak for myself, but no, I never changed or deleted my karma points in any way.
ETA: to my knowledge no other mods/admin have done that.
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There's all different types of rep systems, on one forum I'm a member of we have "thanks", and it gives the members name and the time/date of the thanks given, no negativity.
I can see why some people would want the smite thing gone. Who wants to smited? :)
Nark you're a good egg.
I don't think he's necessarily a bad person: I just didn't think it was a fair move at all considering the way Chip has been emphasizing the way this site differs in relation to mods and their interactions with the normal membership/not doing stuff that we can't just cuz something annoys them. It annoyed me when I got a negative point but I wasn't allowed to remove my point while keeping my positive.
I would have liked to have chosen to "not participate" in the rep system either but I couldn't since I wasn't a mod/granted that special ability. I didn't see Chip, the head of the whole board doing this, Sand and water, or Chops either so that's why I wanted to bring it up post-rep-change.
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I don't think he's necessarily a bad person: I just didn't think it was a fair move at all considering the way Chip has been emphasizing the way this site differs in relation to mods and their interactions with the normal membership/not doing stuff that we can't just cuz something annoys them.
Ya but dude...shit's been delt with. Let it die.
It annoyed me when I got a negative point but I wasn't allowed to remove my point while keeping my positive.
tough shits
I would have liked to have chosen to "not participate" in the rep system either but I couldn't since I wasn't a mod/granted that special ability. I didn't see Chip, the head of the whole board doing this, Sand and water, or Chops either so that's why I wanted to bring it up post-rep-change.
So the way I read that is unless you get to be a mod, you don't want to do it. So...Good Luck with that!
Hey on another topic, I like this system for now. It's perfect no, but very good.
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Nark I don't feel that it was fair that you were choosing "not to participate" in the karma system when the rest of us didn't have a choice and had to retain our negative reputation points (that other members obviously felt we deserved just like the positive ones we received) when Chipper chose to implement the Positive-Negative deal as this guaranteed that you would end up without negative karma points while the rest of us had to deal with our actual karma score. I know were upset that you were being given a lot of negative points but the rest of us got some too and I saw some people who had more neg than positive (Jega comes to mind); so it was spread around a lot. You were the only mod I saw doing this- were you the only one though?
It's not some crazy big deal- I for one don't support any kind of karma system at this point despite my current overall positive score because it detracts from the true purpose of the forum IMO; but I don't think that type of behavior necessarily aligns with the way chipper has described and continues to describe this board as, since you were using your special status as an admin to perform an action the rest of us weren't entitled to, simply because you didn't like how other people were posting on your karma score. Others didn't like it either but we didn't have that special option. Obviously mods are always granted more privileges out of necessity on a forum but I just thought that wasn't the right thing to do, especially since later you chose to only remove negative points while retaining your positive points. If you were choosing "not to participate"- why didn't you end up removing it all so you'd end up with a straight zero after chipper changed everything?
Just food for thought, no hard feelings man. You said it was being abused- how so? And if you did clear everything before the change- please let me know so I can retract part of what I've said here. I only wanted to say this because of the effect it had when chip changed the system to the deduction type deal so sorry for being late to the party, so to speak.
Monkawat, please read the entire thread. I DID end up deleting both positive and negative points, shortly before I made this thread.
I realized I fucked up by only deleting negative points, hence this apology. After discussing this issue with others in this thread, I also agreed to not give out any points, positive or negative. In effect I had my karma system turned off.
I had a message on my signature line about this. I deleted that sig line when the new system was implemented. I only started accepting points again when the new system was started a few days ago.
I would still like an option to turn off one's karma system on a case-by-case basis. I think this new "positive only" system is a good compromise between the old system and no karma at all though.
I appreciate your concerns, but you really are late to this party. Please let this die. It's been dealt with and it's over.
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Thanks St. T and Jega. I'd like people to think I'm a decent person. I think I am.
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You fucked up - you admitted it - you apologized - boom, we move on
Johnny M could learn a thing or 2 from u
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as long as we are all relatively happy with where we are now, which is forum limbo.
our own ability to stand alone will be tested when Opiophile returns but I'm confident that enough people will still visit to keep us busy and afloat.
we can learn from what happened.
but the process will take time so you might ss well look around whatever few of our own recent topics you can find.