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Author Topic: Methadone clinics are fucking evil.  (Read 33770 times)

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Re: Methadone clinics are fucking evil.
« Reply #29 from previous page: March 06, 2017, 10:51:46 AM »
I think robojunkie said he was on more than 325 and still sick.  I've heard of people along up to a gram and being functional.  You can say what you need, but using absolutes like nobody ever will always be wrong.


An old friend peaked around 7g of stronger then retail ecp a day when he was moving weight. The kind of dope where people buy a point and some people split that in two.  Who knows how much methadone he would have needed if he stopped at that point.
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Offline Lolleedee

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Re: Methadone clinics are fucking evil.
« Reply #30 on: March 06, 2017, 04:46:36 PM »
Quote

I'm glad you pointed that out, I forget that methadone clinics are for pain management. However, I was speaking in the context of addiction recovery, not pain management. What I meant was that I can't imagine any opiate addict legitimately needing a dose so high just for maintenance.

I wasn't talking about pain management.  I was referring to treating people with addiction who also have to take antiretrovirals (for those with HIV/AIDS) or those with liver disease (think hep C here..or cirrhosis) or those of us addicts, like me who are lucky enough to have epilepsy and are treated with certain anticonvulsants that effect methadone absorption rates.

You are right that people who go from pain management to the clinic are often on insane doses of drugs/  I was one of them with an insane fentanyl (among other things)habit.  I have met many people in the same situation.

Like I said, the complex pharmacology of methadone means no two people metabolize it the same way and size of habit dose not equal size of dose.  Numbers shouldn't even matter in methadone treatment.  You go up until withdrawal symptoms are gone and cravings are gone..or at least manageable.  On a correct dose, you should not be sedated and sloppy.  You can't be forced up on your dose.  If you continue to drop dirty they will likely increase your dose.  When you are on 'enough" you wont bother trying to get high anymore...unless you aren't really trying to get better.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2017, 05:07:53 PM by chipper »
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Offline dizzle

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Re: Methadone clinics are fucking evil.
« Reply #31 on: March 06, 2017, 10:34:14 PM »

Quote
How does your family react to you being on methadone?



Here's how that went for me,




When I first got on it they were like "omg anything but what you're currently doing will be a win" since I was basically homeless and just wandering the streets scrounging up enough money to get high each day




Then about 6 months after I was in it I was able i hold down a job and moved into an apartment. At that point they are always asking "when are u going to get off that stuff? Have u lowered your dose?" 




Then about 6 months after that I got a really good job (the one I'm currently at) working for a control valve company doing paper pushing and shit. Then they said "well things are going well so maybe it's not the right time to get off it"




Then I excelled like fucking crazy in the job, ended up taking the position of head engineer for design and implementation.


It was then they finally understood, like for me the equation goes like this,


Dizzle + no maintenance =  eventual jail and self destruction. But dizzle + methadone = success






Now they tell me this "if you want to be on it forever, we're fine with that, as long as you're happy"


« Last Edit: March 06, 2017, 10:38:57 PM by dizzle »
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Offline wanderingmind

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Re: Methadone clinics are fucking evil.
« Reply #32 on: March 07, 2017, 01:50:51 AM »
Sounds like you've got a great support system Dizzle!  I think having good friends and a loving family is the best "medicine" out there.  I realize that there's no way that they can keep someone sober.  But, once a person decides to change for the better, having a good support system in place is so incredibly valuable.  I know for a fact that I would be long gone if I didn't have some really close friends and a wonderful family.  The reason I know this is that they are the one big reason I have not killed myself. 
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Offline CARNi

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Re: Methadone clinics are fucking evil.
« Reply #33 on: March 07, 2017, 03:43:14 AM »
Yes definitely awesome support system! I bet it's so much easier on a person.

Keep up the good work, son! (In my dad voice) 😉
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Offline Chip

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Re: Methadone clinics are fucking evil.
« Reply #34 on: March 07, 2017, 05:50:14 AM »
dizzle, that's got to be the best Methadone success story I have ever heard.
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Offline onewayonly

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Re: Methadone clinics are fucking evil.
« Reply #35 on: March 08, 2017, 07:49:46 AM »
How does your family react to you being on methadone? I guess my other big block to getting on it is my own family. They finally started talking to me again this past week and spoke of letting me move in with them while I work things out.


Kind of like dizzle said its way better than the heroin addicted alternative.
They haven't really said too much negative. They live a long ways apart but  when I visited last time they seemed cool and didn't mind taking me each day. I mean I make good money and work every day.
So I just take it with what comes.
I feel I am doing well now so I think every one is different.
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Offline nikita70

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Re: Methadone clinics are fucking evil.
« Reply #36 on: April 08, 2017, 12:58:51 PM »
THE METHADONE TALE-AMOR ETERNO

@gnossos ,

The question is not for methadone, the question is for the "chain" that binds/ties you with it, I mean for what it's (the chain's) nature and "lenght" is and who's the leash'/key/gate keeper, isn't it?
Methadone itself is nothing but just an extremely addictive sirup with a long half life, kind of synthetic opioid what binds with your receptors tight, "until death do us part"-like...
However, it's very effective as for pain management and almost miraculous efficient in dealing with opiate withdrawal syndrome, symultanously being able to develope a habit way way worse than the previous one. If dope makes you struggle 5 days when sick then with methadone it's going to be about 5 months, maybe a little bit less. 
Depending on where you are it could have tablet form or liquid face, usually it's liquid and might be orange, lemon or even raspberry flavoured.
You keep it in your fridge in a main place, you handle with it like with a loaded gun, as if it were able to explode in any moment, and your hands getting always a little bit unsteady as you reach it.
Even the idea IT might somehow slip out of your hand and get wasted scares the shit out of you/makes a shot trembling you.
But you don't need to be worried, at least so far you have much enough.
The point is the shortage/or even completely drought could happen not only if you carelessly let the bottle slip out of your hands so it's going to be wasted.
 
Methadone is a key that's able to close and open you, to turn you on or off (or both). The relevant question is who has the key to the Key?
In a perfect world you do. Exactly the same way you keep the gate of your fridge, lol. 
This is fucking rude to rummage someone's fridge, isn't it? Not even to mention meddling into one's receptors.

But since the world we are dwelling is fucking far from being perfect there's usually some fucking dumbass, ignorant, narrow minded, filister Master-Puppet hanging/rocking on the other side of the string. Not without reason they say about you're strung out, as you're drug addict.

Today I have ran across one of those very few oldtimers that still left alive.
Epicric-a guy kicked out of the clinic due to permanent speed abusing, an obstinate individual, zealous speed lover, no way to persuade.
Strung out on opiates/methadone since forever. I don't know about his last dose exactly (40?60?80?), but I truly doubt if 20 more or less would make any difference if you cold turkeying the 15 yrs long methadone habit of ANY size.
I'd bet even seemingly "poorly" 20 is much enough to make you sick as a dog if you run out of it.   
He told me he did it purposely-I mean the decision to throw himself into this crossover, bloodcurdling kick he was struggling with 5 weeks long(!!!) was self imposed.
Goddamn, one needs have some real guts to do it, and I ALMOST find myself being somewhat envy/jealous for what he did.
This is something else, really.

So well, he decided to do it this roughly way since he got adviced not to jump for a bupe immediately after being cut off methadone.
 
They told him openly they wanted him to be in full blown w/d, so an instant switch or any PWDs related not to deter/discourage him as he's going to enter the new treatment. They wanted make sure he's going to appreciate the power of relief and let the bupe to develope its full potency, as he gathers his first dose.
Being some minded person, he considered it to be a reasonable solution, to let the system get rid of this shit completely.
   
He spent 5 weeks on the bedside, in excrutiating, agonizing pain. 
He reported he barely remembers this days, as if all the drudgery he went through got somehow... blurred, melted away into one single episode of terror and insanity. He told me he didn't sleep a wink all this time. I have to cringe every time I figure it out. 
As they finally gave him his first dose of the bupe it was like a Godsend, pure bliss. I found him in relatively good shape, glad he got rid of the "chain" finally, kinda braced, refreshed. He told me all the torment was worth of it.
 
Despite the happy ending (one might be as well not so strong and fortunate) this is what the fucking clinics brings people to, one way or another.

How could some shrink dwell about "possibly danger for life" in context of interaction between methadone and some other shit and symultanously to kick the person out of the clinic sending them straight into tremendous, excrutiating withdrawal-"due to the violation of the rules"?
Isn't non-drug assisted methadone' w/d life-threatening?

How the same dumbass, ignorant dissembler who "cares on" your daily supplies of probably the most addictive drug ever known (I mean the potency to develope some enormous huge w/d syndrom) dares to harass you, dressing-down and deprive of your "privileges" because you have positive tested for this and that, as any other shit is like a piece of cake comparing to what they give to you?
And as for "cakes", I heard some guy telling he got his take homes cancelled since the tests showed some trace amounts of opies, after he has some poppy-cake eaten. The doc told him openly they were too tiny to be a result of some dope using. I'm only curious how they justified it in documents. "The patient abuses/indulges himself with poppy-cakes"? Fucking joke.
Isn't it akin to a situation they put you in jail for having a pocket knife as they provides you with a machine gun day by day?   
   
I never saw so many contradictions putting together before I have joined MMT-clinics are like some dens, some backwoods of absurdity.   

I wish I could hope this whole "prohibition tomfoolery" is just a single, fleeting, temporary episode/pang, an explosion of insanity, in the history of the mankind that never ever is going to be continued, but since things are how they are I'm rather along the line it's going to be replaced by some another pang of insanity, hatred, hostility, as anti-drug hystery will be/is going to be burnt out/expired. Things seem to be intermingling indeed, but looks there will be always some counterpart of "fascism" or some anti-drug hystery existing, one way or another.

« Last Edit: April 08, 2017, 01:13:04 PM by nikita70 »
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A Toda Madre O Un Desmadre

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get flung into gut-wrenching purging withdrawal,drink ayahuasca and eat peyote..." (Roman Totale)

Offline Chip

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Re: Methadone clinics are fucking evil.
« Reply #37 on: April 08, 2017, 04:59:40 PM »
yes Nikita, I remember always getting nervous when handling my Methadone - I'd tell myself not to fumble and spill it or knock it over. I couldn't use because I had no veins and I couldn't afford to then anyway.

to me, having my dose always felt like averting a major catastrophe.

having a good clinic, doctor and privileges made life so much easier and that wasn't always the case.

it's been almost 6 months since I came off Methadone and I'm still sneezing a few times a day.

I still think that Methadone is a godsend.
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Offline dizzle

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Re: Methadone clinics are fucking evil.
« Reply #38 on: April 10, 2017, 05:10:21 AM »
Wow there a def some bad clinics and doctors/nurses/counselors out there.


I, however, have a great one. In Chicago there are a plethora of clinics to choose from, and I went with the best of the best. It's private, and the head Dr and I are now on a first name basis, the nurse that works on days when I pickup sneaks me bottles of 1000 or 1500 mgs when she can (for a nice payment), and my counselor is amazing.


I'll give u an example, to contrast with Nikita's story above.




I was going out of the country, to Southeast Asia, I met with the dr, he basically said "what do u want the travel note to say? I'll write anything you're comfortable with as long as it's not a boldfaced lie." See, I wanted to go to Japan, and they had given me shit about being on methadone, the dr wrote a letter to the narcotics head of japa. On my behalf, and it still didn't fly. So the dr actually was willing to take me as a patient in his private practice and prescribe me methadone as a dr/patient relationship now a clinic/addict relationship. Though since I already told Japan I was on methadone and at a clinic the jig was up, so I didn't want to risk it. Also, before I left his office he said "when ur in Hong Kong go to the bar at the 4 seasons, it great, and they make a fantastic manhattan there, of course I didn't tell u to try that, being on methadone and all ur not supposed to drink alcohol" and he gives me a wink.




On to my counselor, one time I had dirty pisss, I had used dope and she dropped me. I just put water I. The cup and left, figured I'd tell her I drank a bunch of coffee or something and it must've been watered down.




Well a week later I call her to tell her my urine sample may show up weird, she stops me and says "I know already, did u put water in that shit?" Uhhh..... yes, it was water.


She says "I know because I was packing up the samples to send them to the lab and saw it, then I saw ur patient number and I already knew it was water. So I threw that shit in the garbage so u didn't have a failed drop. Why'd u do that?


I say "Well I got high and knew I was gonna fail it."


She says "next time that happens just tell me what's up. I don't want to fuck you up and get a dirty drop in ur records. Once it's sent to the lab there's no removing the results. If that ever happens again just say 'I can't drop today, im in a hurry', then when we get a chance we can talk about it"




I was like "wow. Ok. Thanks. I'm sorry"


She said dont apologize but don't do some dumb shit like that again.




So, in contrast with the story above, I can say I have a great clinic, dr, conselor, nurse, and I can name my own dose, and it costs $60 a week regardless of the dose I'm on. I get 2x month pickups, and it's just smooth sailing for me.




Not everyone ends up with my story, but I can tell u it is definitely possible......
« Last Edit: April 10, 2017, 05:18:11 AM by dizzle »
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Offline Snoop

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Re: Methadone clinics are fucking evil.
« Reply #39 on: April 10, 2017, 11:13:09 AM »
Shoot man.... 1000-1500mg hook ups!

Fuck me running, that'd get me through some rough times.

Not that I'd take 1000mg at once.... wait, yes I would. Followed up by a benzo or five of some such sorts.

And then I'd sleep in the corner standing up, and reaching for imaginary shit, and dropping burning hot cig cherries on my clothes.

My stars the trouble I could get myself into.
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Offline nikita70

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Re: Methadone clinics are fucking evil.
« Reply #40 on: April 11, 2017, 01:26:03 PM »
@dizzle ,

looks you're some lucky bastard living in a city huge enough you can pick and choose in clinics 8).

I don't doubt/deny good practice in MMT still exists, as I spent 16 years long as an "established", "respected", "promising" patient in my clinic, enjoying ALL kind of privileges before this place went wrong last year (permanently take homes since I got pregnant and gave and birth to my daughter shortly after I joined the program, "waybills" for my methadone any time I wanted to leave foreign, relatively flexible time of take homes etc.).

This is fucking insane what has been happening to this clinic since the new shrink is in charge-seems as if he somewhat confused Harm Reduction with drug free attitude, he tries to kinda implement into the "treatment" some threads that might be possibly working for people in NA or so (drug free oriented), but for MMT are completely useless.
He's like "You should to avoid ANY kind of opies, even if it's just a poppy-cake. The same way alkoholics are condidered to relapse as they ate rum flavoured candy, so don't be so surprised if I'm going to cancel your take homes for what you guys used to call a 'thingie', since it isn't a thingie', it's some serious stuff.
Sure, fucker, "serious stuff" as an opposite to methadone w/d after 15 yrs of being strung out, right? "What's the problem is like with you, dude? Withdrawal is nothing but just what you find on the other side of some tasty one piece of poppy cake."
I think this guy needs someone to help him learn a lesson.

May God save us from sobriety' freaks.

However, since nature abhors vacuum, methadone from the most abundant/afluent and indulgent clinics in other areas flows to "methadone' orphans" in Krakow (city where I am) that let high and dry, so we can feed our habit more or less, the business conducts, the black market is in bloom... and no one fucking soul saved by this dangerous freak. Just a little bit extra of woe, misery, suffering and maybe another few biting a dust.
They fucking never ever learn. 

Ok, there're exceptions, some does. I have a private arrangement with an old doctor, who has contributed a lot to the clinic arose and has ran it at the very beginning. He got kicked out for he often has turned a blind eye for what happens in clinic, prescribing benzos and generally for being not "meticulously" enough.

I meet him private, he charges about $25 per visit (plus about $20 I need to leave in pharmacy, as it's not covered by insurance) but since he's allowed to prescribe me only 300mgs for two weeks or even less, it isn't able to fix me for this time, no way, even if I can afford it.

Still need to support extra and rely on my freakish, arrogant and completely fucked up dealer, listen to the craps he puts me every time I meet him and playing this stupid game "we are good buddies, it's nothing else but just friendly favor what you do to me as I'm in need and have hard times, I have no idea this shit is cut so I barely can feel any trace of methadone in it YOU STUPID FUCKER!!!".      
[/i]

Sucks.       
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A Toda Madre O Un Desmadre

BloodInBloodOutBloodIn

Junkies are like noodles-straight 'til gettin' wet

"Maybe we should follow in the steps of Artonin Artaud and throw our remaining dope in the river,
get flung into gut-wrenching purging withdrawal,drink ayahuasca and eat peyote..." (Roman Totale)

Offline dizzle

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Re: Methadone clinics are fucking evil.
« Reply #41 on: April 12, 2017, 12:16:36 PM »
Wait.... u can't afford $25 and $20 every two weeks?




Wow. What does ur dealer charge?


That's less than $100 a month   Something doesn't make sense there. 300 every 2 weeks is like 20mg a day only. That's not a lot, sure, but should be enough to keep u out of horrible was, no?




Also, what in the fuckkng fuxl? Did u lose take homes for eating poppy seed cake, for real? Or was it a "got high and got caught with opies in ur piss and lied and said u are poppy seed cake"--situation???  Don't lie!!!!
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Offline Thoms

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Re: Methadone clinics are fucking evil.
« Reply #42 on: April 12, 2017, 12:24:08 PM »
Lol at 300 every two weeks. Your country should know that isn't enough for my 2 days lol!
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Fear and self loathing in thoms.

Offline nikita70

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Re: Methadone clinics are fucking evil.
« Reply #43 on: April 13, 2017, 11:26:48 AM »
(...)
And as for "cakes", I heard some guy telling he got his take homes cancelled since the tests showed some trace amounts of opies, after he has some poppy-cake eaten. The doc told him openly they were too tiny to be a result of some dope using. I'm only curious how they justified it in documents. "The patient abuses/indulges himself with poppy-cakes"? Fucking joke.
Isn't it akin to a situation they put you in jail for having a pocket knife as they provides you with a machine gun day by day?   
@dizzle ,

(...)
I meet him private, he charges about $25 per visit (plus about $20 I need to leave in pharmacy, as it's not covered by insurance) but since he's allowed to prescribe me only 300mgs for two weeks or even less, it isn't able to fix me for this time, no way, even if I can afford it.

Wait.... u can't afford $25 and $20 every two weeks?




Wow. What does ur dealer charge?


That's less than $100 a month   Something doesn't make sense there. 300 every 2 weeks is like 20mg a day only. That's not a lot, sure, but should be enough to keep u out of horrible was, no?




Also, what in the fuckkng fuxl? Did u lose take homes for eating poppy seed cake, for real? Or was it a "got high and got caught with opies in ur piss and lied and said u are poppy seed cake"--situation???  Don't lie!!!!
       

@dizzle@Thoms

wait...
looks we have at least two relevant misunderstandins here.
Nikita doesn't lie... and if at all, then not to the fellow O'philes/d&users  :)).
I can only blame my poor English for my expression being not clearly/lucid enough.
As for being poor-hey, even if my English is "poor", I'm not so much. Looks my English is poorer than I am. (flat joke)


I never said I CAN'T AFFORD what the doc charges, on the contrary, I said that even if I CAN AFFORD IT (maybe I needed to word it like "even since I can afford it", or "even being able to afford it"), the maximum of what he's in position to offer me is still the drop in the ocean of need-this is exactly what I meant.
It isn't money issue, it's still regulation/law issue I have to struggle with at this point. 
$45 ($25 per visit plus about $20 per methadone itsef) every two weeks is passable to me, it's half of what my currently dealer charges for his shamelessly cut shit and 1/4(!) of what my previous vendor required, since he has developed a monopoly and cared on at least half population of "methadone' exilers".
(btw, the guy's biting a dust for less than a month, passed away for actually no one specific reason, once he landed in hospital he never left it anymore, we could only guess that being so voracious he has developed a huge habit, what might somehow contributed to his death, as got to the ward high and dry and the staff has probably downplayed it as they usually do. Greedy or not-good guy anyway, I liked his stuff being always pristine pure and respected him for talking openly/honestly about "not being here for a charity". I miss the guy, not only his stuff.).

Currently I do rely on three different sources-I'm tryin' to grasp any occasion since I lost the regular supplies. This is so fucking stressfull and frustrating to permanently keep an eye on "where in the city someone is going to shed few drops of the sirup" and get there in the right time. As a street junkie I was basically pretty unconcerned and used not to freak out as something went wrong, but since I have joined the maintenance I got spoiled and permanently bothered for my stash. Getting oldier doesn't help, too.

I have to concoct some way to "bleed this doc dry" since I suppose he might "quibble" in order to see me as often as possible for an obvious money-reason.

Not so positive at all whether this poor 300 every two weeks is all he's allowed to prescribe, by the other hand, I know all the procedure is a little bit "shady"/informally, in the best case something definitely unusual (as far I know), since he needed to apply for some special permission to get the proper receipe forms.

As I entered his office first time and asked him to care on me, he denied firmly telling he's absolutely not entitled to do things like that. It took a little to convince him to change his mind and I truly doubt money were the "ultima ratio". It just doesn't work this way. 

Regulations are pretty restrictive as for methadone over here.
There's some very firmly and distinct line between the pain management' and opiate substitution' purposes drawn, so to say. Kinda "Methadone Apartheid".   

"Scripts system" is meant only as a way of pain management, it is targeted to a very small population of the people and involves only some tiny doses, like few milligrams a day or so.

The "substitution version of the game" (what allows and deals with doses higher than few miligrams per day) is reserved for and ruled by only government institutions (like clinics/hospitals).

However, clinics are in many ways independent and self-governing, and the regulation/law is thus formulated so it could be interpreted for 1001 ways regarding on the chief's willfullness.
There's an abyss between the possibly meanings of the word "failure", since it's so ambigous. It ranges from having positive tested for THC to opies, and "opies" might refer to being "caught" having poppy-seed cake eaten as well as to an episode of shooting up dope in the front of camera. 

The term "failure" ("violation of rules") doesn't specify/settle about circumstances, amount etc. and possibly "consequences" related.

The doc does basing on another one euphemism-"the good/benefit of the patient".

In the same name of the "benefit of patient" I got kicked out on the street, are people in other, more reasonable and minded clinics warned they are going to be tested soon, so "you'd better watch your veins", lol.
I was just unfortunate to be under the worst, most narrow minded "interpreter" ever possible.

And as for cake-I didn't tell I lost my take homes for it-but my dealer did, indeed. (He's pretty much dumbass but since I have found him oh-so-much-frustrated as I know for sure he's clean-I'm willing to believe him).

I personally lost my take homes for using benzos, what I agreed gladly, since I have them prescribed in the same clinic for years.
 
The doc buzzed to me something like "the times they are a changin" and told he has heard rummors flying, indeed, about this "reprehensible procedures occuring" but since he's in charge it's gonna be definitely over. "Things are going to be straight again.", he said.

"Straight til getting wet", I mumbled, but he apparently didn't dig the joke.

"So what have I do?", I asked him kinda exalted, "I'm addicted to them but good, you know what benzo w/d is, doc. I need them to do, desperately. I don't expect you giving me scripts for them obviously, but I'd be thankfull if you'll turn the blind eye. You can always just miss them as you order tests, can't you.  Doc?"

("Damn, you sure is greedy for this stuff"  ;D)
"My heart is bleeding but I can't do it for you, miss Nikita, no matter how sorry I feel but you'd better forget it since I declared war on any "oversights" in this clinic. Right the next door is psychiatric ward I shall to send you to the detox, can you see it? I want you be there within the month unless I'm going to arrange a real merry-go-round for you in this clinic before I get rid of you. Although it's going to be rather like hell..."   
Well, one hell or another, doc...

CURTAIN
 
 

     
 



 

« Last Edit: April 13, 2017, 11:47:24 AM by nikita70 »
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A Toda Madre O Un Desmadre

BloodInBloodOutBloodIn

Junkies are like noodles-straight 'til gettin' wet

"Maybe we should follow in the steps of Artonin Artaud and throw our remaining dope in the river,
get flung into gut-wrenching purging withdrawal,drink ayahuasca and eat peyote..." (Roman Totale)

Offline Smacky-Doodle 2.0

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Re: Methadone clinics are fucking evil.
« Reply #44 on: April 14, 2017, 11:53:12 PM »
It's private, and the head Dr and I are now on a first name basis, the nurse that works on days when I pickup sneaks me bottles of 1000 or 1500 mgs when she can (for a nice payment), and my counselor is amazing.

Damn, son!  I wouldn't dream of questioning the authenticity of this.....but, how in the BLUE FUCK do you swing that?  At MY clinic, if 10mg comes up missing when they do periodic pill counts, they're calling everyone that came in to dose that morning and asking if they were over-served.

Im assuming that it's liquid at your clinic, and maybe it's easier to fudge the books than with tablets.  1500mgs extra?  That's just crazy to me, you got a good thing going on.
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I often ask myself:  "What would Trevor Philips do?"

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