dopetalk
General => General Discussion for Everybody => Topic started by: Griffin on June 05, 2016, 02:24:42 PM
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http://kfor.com/2016/06/01/midwest-city-police-searching-for-answers-two-years-after-double-murder/amp/
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Hey guys was just looking through news articles today about my home state, and saw this on their it looks like they doubled the reward for info for the capture? Did anyone from here offer the money to the investigation? Either way I really hope this helps and bringing it back up pushes someone to come forward with info, because they are calling it a murder now, last I remember was they were unsure and it looked like foul play but it hadn't been confirmed so that is news to me that is for sure a murder, which is just awful and heartbreaking.
I joined opiophile a little bit before they died and since I was living in OK at the time than gave me a warm welcome and put my worries about posting and sounding like a newb or idiot to rest by encouraging me to post whatever. Everything I have read about them and all their posts made it seem like they were just amazing people and it is truly heartbreaking that they were taken away to early especially in this manner. So RIP than & paups gone but definitely not forgotten I hope they solve this and get justice for these to wonderful people.
It was weird right when I saw the headline I knew it was about them and that was why I clicked it. I was reading an article off aol about a older lady babysitter who gave a baby benedryl while babysitting and it killed the baby in OK and at the bottom I saw the headline and clicked it because I thought it might be them. Such a strange world and if anyone helped to make the reward go up thank you they deserve justice and I am glad the extra effort was made to find it. RIP THAN & PAUPS!!
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Sigh....I'm sure they never caught who killed Mike (Chemboy) either....I can't bring myself to search and see....thank you for the update @Griffin...
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Yes I saw this watching the news, I didn't know there was a reward. I posted about it in the email group. I should have looked at the website thank you for letting us know.
Oh I saw the one at 10:00. Didn't see that video.
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I do also hope the increase in reward money will help solve this case.
Money should not be an incentive for people to do the right thing, but whatever works right.
Paups, Than, Mike(Chemboy) and anyone else murdered deserves justice and so do their families.
I often sway back and forth on whether the death penalty is the right thing to do in terms of finding justice.
I have never lost a child to such a vicious and needless act as murder, but I know I would sleep better if the people responsible
were caught and convicted.
Thank you for posting this Griffin. Than and Paups were loved by so many and to know they may have suffered breaks my heart.
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I hadnt heard of the house being broken into by that methed out looking chick a week before the fire. is that new info?
and I dont see why it needed to be stated they were drug users. if they were alcoholics would it have been mentioned?
I fear itll take more money than that to get anywhere but im atleast glad people are still trying
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burnt to death is the worst way to go.
let's hope that they figure out why this happened.
it still bothers me today - it sounds like a robbery gone really wrong.
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burnt to death is the worst way to go.
let's hope that they figure out why this happened.
it still bothers me today - it sounds like a robbery gone really wrong.
Not that its any better, but they were murdered prior to the house fire. Though it doesn't say how. The fire was just an attempt to hide the shit. All we can do is hope that they didn't suffer
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burnt to death is the worst way to go.
let's hope that they figure out why this happened.
it still bothers me today - it sounds like a robbery gone really wrong.
Everything I have read and seen said "murdered THEN set the place ablaze." Just HOW they were murdered has not been mentioned though.
From the start my feeling is that this was a robbery gone bad and when they didn't have the millions under the mattresss the local drug people (aka general sleazebags) thought they had they killed them and torched the place to destroy evidence. Unfortunately, it has been working so far.
They were from NYC, generally trusting and open out their drug use and by local standards probably seemed "rich." They were also used to buying quantity and dealingwith professional dealers who generally don't kill their customers.
I agree that mentioning their drug use was uncalled for and counterproductive. When you think about it, with all the anti-drug hysteria just mentioning it made them less sympathetic victims and therefore less likely to get someone to talk and risk their own safety for "a couple of dead junkies."
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Everything I have read and seen said "murdered THEN set the place ablaze." Just HOW they were murdered has not been mentioned though.
{snip}
thanks, I can only hope that they went out in their sleep prior to the fire (read: no suffering).
yeah, the drug reference was superfluous but it makes for "good copy" and is there a link to the perpetrator possibly being an Opiophile member ? Some sick jealous psycho ? nah, can't be, right ?
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They were from NYC, generally trusting and open out their drug use and by local standards probably seemed "rich." They were also used to buying quantity and dealingwith professional dealers who generally don't kill their customers.
No, actually Bryan was from the town he died in, Midwest City, OK; and Shelby was from Massachusetts.
Also they drove a beater ass Volvo and lived in a REALLY tiny little house in a very unremarkable neighborhood. They didn't come across as "rich" at all.
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Thanks, Griff.
I hope this brings some results, but I don't count on it.
Seemed to me GnD hit it right on the money...
If you OK dau-ers hear anything, keep us in the loop.
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No, actually Bryan was from the town he died in, Midwest City, OK; and Shelby was from Massachusetts.
Also they drove a beater ass Volvo and lived in a REALLY tiny little house in a very unremarkable neighborhood. They didn't come across as "rich" at all.
I didn't know that about it being his hometown I guess I should have said that they may have been MISTAKEN FOR "Rich New York people" which I meant to imply.
Still, I don't think they were the type to have many enemies but if they were spending money on drugs but not working somebody could have assumed they had somthing worth robbing them for. Didn't that woman in the clip get caught breaking in to their house once?
But him being from theire does anwer why they picked that place to live.
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This is kind of a weird question but do you guys think i should put the news article on my facebook to see if anyone i know from oklahoma has heard anything about it or knew them or anything? I have probably 500 fb friends who live in OK cause i spent the first 21 years of my life there and only lived about 30 minutes from them.
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@Griffin I think you should. Anyway to spread the word especially sense you are from so close.
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This is kind of a weird question but do you guys think i should put the news article on my facebook to see if anyone i know from oklahoma has heard anything about it or knew them or anything? I have probably 500 fb friends who live in OK cause i spent the first 21 years of my life there and only lived about 30 minutes from them.
Sure,do it.
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This is kind of a weird question but do you guys think i should put the news article on my facebook to see if anyone i know from oklahoma has heard anything about it or knew them or anything? I have probably 500 fb friends who live in OK cause i spent the first 21 years of my life there and only lived about 30 minutes from them.
Definitely do it. And don't forget to mention the $10,000. If anyone talk it will be someone on the edge of it all, a friend of the guilty who they confided in or a friend who that person talked to. The lesss they are attached to the guilty person(s) the better the money will look. You,informingpeople who might travel in overlapping social circles might have a better chance than reaching someone who knows something than a quick blurb on the local news would.
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That is how they ended up catching the dudes who chopped up a girl named carina saunders a few years back and threw her in homelands garage containers. A guy I used to use with dated her in high school it was so fucked up to hear about she was only 19 at the time, and it was the first time I had ever been close to any type of gang, or cartel violence or whatever it was they were trying to send a message because they tried to force her into prostitution(human/sex trafficking) and she refused was the story of why that eventually came out.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/carina-saunders-final-autopsy-released-oklahoma-police-violent-death-confirmed-article-1.1137833
Here's the story of what happened if your interested or heard about it when it happened. What is fucked up is I am pretty sure that the 2 dudes who did it they caught and charged, had a statement from a witness who was there and got away through a window, and had a cell phone with the video of the 2 guys doing it but they both got away with it because the cops are idiots and the main guy behind it is suing the city for improper interrogation.
The other is getting out of prison this year after completing 3 years on a 10 year meth manufacturing charge. Not that I think that you should be arrested for making meth, if your doing it without the chance of killing someone else but the fact that he walked on the murder pisses me off because they tortured her and then cut her up and made sure they found her next to her house to send a message.
I don't the whole thing pisses me off they have a ton of evidence on both dudes but I am pretty sure they both got off of it, i could be wrong but that was the last I heard about it. But they found the 2 dudes from word of mouth and people speaking up and the little clues ended up getting the guy with the phone that had the video of him and another guy in the act. So hopefully something comes of it, i doubt any of my people know them but maybe it will get passed around to someone who does.
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Passed a polygraph, big deal.
Perhaps they will look a little harder at Ms. Holman
http://oklahoma.arrests.org/search.php?fname=tiffany+&lname=HOLMAN&fpartial=True
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Wow are polygraphs still allowed to have any say in anything to do with anything. They aren't permissible in court because they are pretty much bs, I hope they look into it as well that is ridiculous.
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I hadnt heard of the house being broken into by that methed out looking chick a week before the fire. is that new info?
I wonder if she is the gal with the kid they were trying to help? The same one they sold/gave the old Volvo too? Ausativa met her on the bus and introduced her to them when he was going up to lodge with them.
I had been planning a trip up there but blew the motor on my truck and wasn't able to make it up there when planned, which would have been around the time they were murdered.
I don't know who all the cops talked to but I know of several from the DFW have made statements to investigators.
Aus had made comment's at the time to the effect that since everybody was being mean to his sorry ass he was going to withhold any info he had about it,
Curious if Aus is a member here?
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I don't beleive he is a memeber here, unless he is using a totally different handle. The only member that is even close to his name is "AuSlove" and I'm guessing that isn't him, and even if it is, that member has never logged in. So, basically, no, he is not.
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Wait, I think someone said he was in jail. I need to call a friend and see if I can get the details.
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Aus had made comment's at the time to the effect that since everybody was being mean to his sorry ass he was going to withhold any info he had about it,
Curious if Aus is a member here?
Just fucking unbelievable. What a complete sorry ass, self-centered, little shit. I know he is just a young kid, but two great human beings were murdered and any information could have solved their murder. Sometimes the most insignificant facts can lead to more significant facts, and so on.
Someone should tell him to share any info he knows so their families can get some closure.
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I'm vaguely remembering the shit with Aus saying he had info but was going to withhold it to punish the board and its members. Or something to that effect. But I think enough people shot that theory down, saying he was a liar who would say anything for a bit of attention. If he did know anything, I'm sure that 10k would get him talking.
And yes DAK I do recall someone here saying he was in jail now. Maybe Nick? I'm forgetting.
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Passed a polygraph, big deal.
Perhaps they will look a little harder at Ms. Holman
http://oklahoma.arrests.org/search.php?fname=tiffany+&lname=HOLMAN&fpartial=True
little offtopic but i HATE that fucking website. i got nearly a dozen fucking pictures on there want them down they show up in google index on first page when you search my name, i hate that shit.
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I'm vaguely remembering the shit with Aus saying he had info but was going to withhold it to punish the board and its members. Or something to that effect. But I think enough people shot that theory down, saying he was a liar who would say anything for a bit of attention. If he did know anything, I'm sure that 10k would get him talking.
And yes DAK I do recall someone here saying he was in jail now. Maybe Nick? I'm forgetting.
This sounds about right. Fuck that dude.
RIP paups and than0
And I doubt anyone will solve chem's murder. Things in Flint are FUCKED. Solving cold murder cases is not a big priority. RIP Mike. You guys are missed.
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Tainted, i know what you mean, I am so glad I can't find any of my mug shots on the internet, there were a few of the people i was in jail with in the little jail, and the big ass jail doesn't post them which is kind of weird, since those sites will charge you out the ass to take them down even though they usually have like 10 sites that they are connected to and only will take them off one for the $699 fee. I found one for my mom but didn't want to tell her I swear she'd go broke trying to get them all off, I was surprised to find my mom cause even the court records online for her arrest were expunged.
Same thing with expunged criminal records once its on a website they don't take it down so unless a company or whoever goes through the state to do a background check everything still comes up even it was expunged because sites don't update shit that gets expunged. my brother had his felonies deferred and then expunged after 5 years but it still comes up on all the sites fuckin war on drugs, big brother, mass surveillance bs.
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Seemingly advantaged couple of people-an artist and an intellectual in the countryside/provincial town.
Not only STRANGE, but ADDICTED TO DRUGS as well.
"Rich" or not, still a "tasty morsel" for hillbillies,
Maybe they got considered as "being rich" because the perpetrators were looking for PRETEXT.
Just thought it could happen wherever.
So sinister.
R.I.P. Paups and Than
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its too bad that we'll honestly never have the slightest clue what happened. maybe one day we will, but it'll be sheer luck and a snitch to see that day. there are so many damn things it could be. owed someone money. road rage flicked someone off, followed em home. random skitzo with a thing for killin n fires? the chick who burgalized it the week before. the list goes on and on and on its pointless to speculate. i hope someone helps the police in this matter, this is one of the few times im not only for snitching, but would encourage it with all my will.
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This article, also about the increase in reward money, has a more information than we have seen so far, I believe.
http://newsok.com/article/5502559
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"The couple met on a heroin hookup site in 2000..."
And I thought I saw them meet on Opiophile in 2010...the things you learn.
The fact that they were dead for days, if it isn't "overexaggerated" like the above, is news, and has me rethinking a few things.
I've pretty much gone with the theory the late lamented GnD posited, and more or less assumed the reason LE was able to call it homicide so quickly was because they both had extreme "neck lacerations," so to speak. But, if it's true the fire started days later, I have my doubts.
Arson is a trademark, as I understand, but the likely authors of such a statement don't typically wait days, do they?
Makes me wonder if the killers weren't a lot closer to our friends than we thought.
Very sad, but at least more info is coming out...even if some of it is questionable at best.
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Holy fuck I wasn't ready to read that. :(
I didn't know how they died, and I didn't know they layed in that house dead for days. I'd hoped that maybe it happened in their sleep, quickly, but after reading that, it's a bit harder to swallow.
Shit is just so far beyond fucked up. Bryan was a total pacifist, why anyone would feel the need to kill him is absolutely completely beyond anything I can fathom. This is just ridiculously sad.
RIP you two.
I bet if those cops got medevil on Holman, they'd find that she knows more than she's letting on..
edit: I bet this is her: Mugshots.com ID: 115253234
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I didn't know them personally, but can remember seeing posts from them on o-phile. It's such a heartbreaking story and I really hope that someone will come forward with more information.
The new article definitely had a few more details. The first thing that I wondered about was whether or not the skank broke in to their house before or after they were killed. The article makes it sound like it was after, as it didn't say that she'd broken in before the murders, just before the fire. If it was in the days after their deaths and she broke in, ripped them off and just left them there I don't see how she couldn't know more than she's saying. The timing would have to be more than a coincidence. It would also make LE's theory that their murders were drug related pretty questionable too. If it was, why would whoever killed them leave their dope behind? I don't know, it's just speculation on my part of course but I really hope that their family and friends are able to get some justice for them.
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I have a hard time buying that they were dealing. B had money before they died, and then his dad died, and he had even more money. One of the greatest qualities of that guy was his generosity, the only time I ever saw him act selfish at all was when someone wanted dope and he didn't have much, but it was never about money with him.
I could be wrong, but I really just don't see them dealing, why would he take the risk when he didn't need the money?
That chick has to know something more, period. I'd bet heavily that either she did it or she knows who did.
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(Still @ work, but just me, so.)
Yeah, Chops, I always thought they eschewed dealing, too. But otoh, I can't see them watch friends get sick if they had more than enough for themselves. To LE, helping out a sick friend & dealing are same/same.
GnD thought a particular group (think Microsoft Unlucky#) was responsible. IIRC, B&S made a Dallas run (to pick up) not long before they were killed.
Helping out the wrong false friend while sittin on a big stash could get you killed.
Helping out sick friends could be seen as tresspassing by Microsoft, and that could get you killed, too.
I had been reading the arson as the Microsoft calling card, but that hardly seems likely if they were killed days before the fire.
I hate to regurgitate the kind of speculation that flew around (especially by folks who posted before reading the whole thread & posted theories that were already dismissed ::)), but, if the killer(s) were closer to home than everyone thought, it may be time to reset.
Also, the increased reward might help. Can't imagine anyone would roll on Microsoft for 10k, but Joe Junkie? Lotta folks'd drop a dime on him in a heartbeat for that.
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I think someone needs to contact the writer of that article or the police themselves. Some of this latest article reads like it might be a bad case of telephone. More is repeated, the more twisted it gets from what it originally said.
I would ask the reporter and police if they're certain the murder occurred days before the fire.
If so, seems likely there's multiple people involved, the way it happened, then no fire for days, the group argued over what to do and fire won.
IF that's how it happened. I've read so many articles that described the murder happening same night as fire.
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That's pretty awful. The two of them seemed like amazing folks when I spoke to them. I can't imagine how someone could do something so chillingly brutal to them. That's just sheer brutality from the sounds of it.
As for that girl, what a sicko. Cold and sick. To bust intobl htheir house, see them dead, and just head off to steal their drugs. Cold ass junkieasfuck. Unbelievable. Also, who gives a wank about a polygraph. Inaccurate, easily gives false readings of all sort, and totally inadmissable. I read that often polygraphs are faked to manipulate the person to who is being interviewed.
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IIRC, B&S made a Dallas run (to pick up) not long before they were killed.
Yeah I know for sure that they were down here in Dallas a few days before they were killed...Which would make me think that it was someone who knew them well enough to know what was going on. This wasn't some random person.
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Sad to read.
Z,sad to say,I'd have done exactly what the girl did-only difference is I'd have called the cops on the way out.
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Even at that I kind of get not calling the cops. Either way you're the junky with two dead bodies. I get it, but it just sounds fucked up at the same time.
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Sad shit, couple years b4 they died we had plans to meet up at my parents house to get loaded, i hadnt been proper high in months but brian said hed bring me some coke and brown to set me straight, something ended up happening that prevented them from coming to maine (this was when they were liviing in mass) but I dont recall what it was.
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Their house was FULL of really cool shit. Antique guitars, sound equipment, all kinds of eclectic art and cameras and collectibles.
Not hard to imagine someone going in to rob the place, it goes down bad, and then the dopefiend gets word goes in after the dope, cos hey, free dope. But if that's the case, she'd have to know wtf did it.
Vice grips and a torch would probably sort the truth out.