dopetalk
Core Topics => Opiates & Opioids => Drugs => Methadone and Buprenorphine Maintenance => Topic started by: TearsofThePoppy on January 15, 2016, 12:52:00 PM
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So I got scared for my sub doc UA, and ordered some "suboxone positive pee" from this site: http://www.drugtest-solutions.com/suboxone_positive_synthetic_urine.htm. DO NOT BUY FROM THIS SITE! It claims that it's synthetic urine that labs use as a positive control for suboxone, it's supposed to return positive for sub and nothing else. Well guess what, I give some to my friend and we both go to the clinic. She told me the doctor looked at her results a little funny (may have been in her head) but didn't say anything to her, and ultimately she either passed or they didn't feel like confronting her. Then, somehow, my dipstick test shows up positive for opiates and oxy, and negative for sub. Now I'm in hot, hot water with the clinic, and despite stammering out a "confession" that I relapsed, they are going to send it out to a lab for more thorough testing.
For a while, I'm playing it safe-I'm just gonna flush and pee in the damn cup, no sneaking anything in. I am hoping the lab results may exonerate me, but if they accuse me of cheating I will simply be like, "If I was cheating then how did I turn up dirty for opiates and oxy?!" They can either accuse me of using OR cheating on the test, given the result, not both. I will even invite them to observe me peeing if they want. In the past, every time I failed a urine I was pretty forthcoming and didn't try to deny using, so in general they trust me even especially since I was clean for a while.
So anyway, what the hell happened? Who knows. Right now, I have 6 days to get my system clean, after using 2-3 bags IV a day for a while. I'm gonna drink a gallon of water a day and take 4 tablets of midol (help me with aches/pains and diuretic) a day and try to exercise and eat right and hope for the best.
What would you do to cleanse opiates from your system in 6 days in time for a UA?
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You will be clean in 6 days doing pretty much nothing special. Don't worry about it at all. Excercise and eat right by all means, but only because that is a good thing to do. I wouldn't advise taking midol for no reason either really.
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Thank you Z! And it's good to see you all again! So happy I found this site after Opiophile's demise...
The reason I'm concerned is that in the past, this was my experience with UAs:
5 days: may be clean, but have tested dirty before, but I didn't do anything special
6 days: usually the gold standard for how long it takes me to be clean without much effort if I'm chipping (never tried it after daily use for a long ass time, that's my concern)
8 days: the MAXIMUM amount of days after which I have still tested dirty after doing a TON, I came up very "faintly" positive (that's fucking BS though, a faint line is supposed to be a negative!). But that's because I barely drank any water during the 8 days, and I was on a truly ridiculous binge for a week.
10 days: clean no matter what.
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I've also been fucked by synthetic urine. I've used the same brand like 6-8 times in the past, never a problem.
Get called for a random DOT test for work, have all day to get there, go grab a bottle of the tried and true brand I've always used, go drop it off at the testing center, temps on point, all double lines, I'm good...... So I thought.
Mothetfucker if I'm not on the job site like 8-10 days later and I get a call from a WA number. Right away I knew something was up. On the phone was a review dr. going over my lab results, asking why I pissed hot for morphine, heroin and heroin metabolites, WTF?
I know I didn't contaminate the sample, like no fucking way possible.
Anyway cost me a cake job making 27$ an hour which is like 2 peoples kings wages where I'm at, and got reported to DOT and the federal pipeline management some shit or other. Motherfucker. Should've just given them my own THC and H dirty piss and saved 30$
Moral of the story is even companies you've used before can fuck you.
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Damn.
I haven't thought about the possibility of me contaminating my own sample. I did stick my finger into the sample at one point, because when I was peeling off the seal part of the paper fell into the pee so I fished it out super quick. Maybe there was dope on my finger?
Oh my God....now that I think about it I may have touched a cotton earlier that evening...holy shit. But I distinctly remember when thawing out the bottle which I froze I was running it under running hot water which should have washed it...but oh my God...there is the possibility...but that still doesn't explain why it worked for my friend and not me, or why I tested negative for subs, or the positive for oxy...
Need to doublecheck this with a dipstick test.
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It's true that everyone has a different metabolism, and different levels of the drug in their system. My experience has been that 3-4 days is all it takes to clear heroin out of my system after fairly heavy daily use.
As for contamination, I think it might be hard to have happen. The test looks for morphine metabolites in the sample, and not for heroin. I'm not sure if it is the same compound they look for as you consume or if they are different. Maybe someone else would know.
Do you know somebody who is clean except for subs? That kind fo friend is good to have. Maybe the wife and I can start a business selling real pee guaranteed to pop how it is supposed to. It would be cool to turn shit into gold, or piss into cash.
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They test for metabolites, but heroin breaks down in water very quickly into metabolites. So a cotton would actually be loaded with metabolites. And street drugs are impure, so who the hell knows what was even really in it? Maybe there was oxy.
I'm so fucking stupid. I shoulda washed my hands good and maybe wore gloves before touching the shit.
Oh my God I fucked up. But popping dirty might save me now, because if the lab tries to say it wasn't real pee, I'll be like, well then how did it come up dirty if it's not really my piss?
The lesson here:
1) Do not trust synthetics. Too risky.
2) If you do use the substitution method, DO NOT contaminate your samples!
It'd be good for you to start that business. I'd buy from you. I really need to doublecheck stuff with my own test beforehand.
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Hang on a minute here....
Oxy metabolites WILL NOT be the same as heroin metabolites, that's for fucking sure.
Heroin WILL NOT break down into METABOLITES by sitting, it'll break into morphine, which could be considered a metabolite I SUPPOSE. But I always thought they looked for morphine-6-gluconoride? No?
But, long story short you def got boned by that company, and they have obviously boned someone else here, so that being the case, that place PROBABLY pays people for piss, and when those people relapse or ly about what they're taking to them I guess you end up with one of these flunkers, THEY NEED BETTER QA/QC if people are going to put their livlihood on the line with their products.
TOTP imagine if someothing happened at work that warranted a drug test, an accident or something, the insurance co's usually force a drug test to try to get out of paying the medical bills, then you used piss from them, you'd be FUCKED out of a job. No bueno. Just like that dude in this thread, shit is serious and the fucks at the place selling this stuff need to realize that.
then regarding your 6-day detox, you're gonna be fine (should be), but I've heard of people failing that far out but it's rare, usually 3-5 days would be standard but 6+ is money, drink H2O, eat, workout, etc, you'll be fine.
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OK, I did get boned by the company. I'm pretty sure it's synthetic piss and not real urine from someone else though, because I smelled it (I know, gross) and it didn't have the distinct scent of actual human urine. That's why I'm concerned about having it sent to the lab, some synthetic piss doesn't contain urea and they will realize (if they test for it) that it's non-human in origin. It's much better to pop dirty than to be accused of cheating, that's for sure.
Still bothers me that my friend passed, but whatever. May have been dumb luck, maybe her controls were off so they weren't comfortable accusing her.
What company did you buy yours from, DirtyJerzy? I'm starting to have this conspiracy theory that synthetic urine sites are run by drug testing companies, they make extra money and they add in the metabolites to every random 10th sample or something so dirty lying cheating users get caught eventually.
Tonight I'm buying some dip tests of my own so I can doublecheck myself in the future. I'll continue using substitution when I feel it's safe but only use my own samples that I know will work for certain.
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OK, just checked the calendar and unfortunately I only have 5 days. But I'm doing well, I'm gonna fucking do this!
Will post on here to keep my accountable. Thank you for all the support and advice, everyone. I'm doing lots of water, exercise, taking midol as a diuretic, and will chug water before my test and take some b complex vitamins. I don't think niacin really does anything....anyone else know differently?
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I used quick fix plus, which is specifically blended with urea, ph balanced, has the proper gravity, and contains the right amount of creatine.
Again I KNOW that I wasn't the cause of contamination, and I know it was not only positive for morphine but also heroin as the review dr specifically said it positive for 6-am which only metabolizes from heroin.
Again let me say I've used this specific brand at least 6 times in the past, but it's was like a year between when I last used it with success, and this time when it fucked me.
I've read some other bad reviews, so something's def amiss with qc. Didn't read anyone else coming up for morph and h though.
Still fucking pisses me the fuck off. I was bring home close to 2k a week with that job most weeks.
My wife says everything happens for a reason, and I believe in the cosmic order too, but I still don't know what the fuck reason that happened for. In due time it'll reveal itself I guess, at least that's what I tell myself to keep from dwelling on blowing their "factory" up.
(Just kidding DHS, I'd never even think of blowing ANYTHING up)
You know me I'm too busy hugging trees and saving kittens and shit.......
And not in that fire bombing logging trucks, breaking into animal testing facilities type of way either.
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Hey there buddy, and I really hate to be the one to break this to u, BUT if u took heroin, they can't tell whether u took morphine AND heroin or JUST heroin.
See, heroin breaks down into two or three major "first pass" metabolites, namely, 6- monoacetyl morphine, 3 monoacetyl morphine and morphine, most land test specifically for 6 monoacetyl morphine as the "test that specifically implies heroin", but obviously morphine will show up as morphine as well.
Now, when they send it to the lab, they may test for morphine6 gluconoride, which will show the next stage of metabolism.
But anyway, png sorry short, u (dirty jerz) didn't get ducked by the "quick fix plus" people, but u probably were just positive for heroin and it didn't lower your levels enough to drop below the threshold
So, before you blame quick fix for ur "false positive", let me ask u, DID u use dope within the last 72 hrs before the test? If so, quick fix didn't fuck u, u ducked yourself.
That being said it still sucks balls u lost that Job over that dumbass shit, that the War on consciousness we face today my fellow opie, and it's a motherfuker
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dizzle, you are making some good points that are scientifically valid but they don't support your conclusions.
If dirtyjerzey used synethetic pee then his urine never made it into the cup which means it doesn't matter what he took. Quickfix did fuck him.
And as you said yourself, there ARE ways they can test for heroin specifically, by testing for the first pass metabolites, they just usually don't stick around very long and are not always tested for, because heroin breaks down into morphine so quickly-I'm sure you are right that SOME places only test for morphine and its metabolites.
Different labs test for different things and everyone's metabolism is different, and furthermore DJ relied on urine that he purchased off the Internet instead of trying to flush his own system. Just because you are knowledgeable in chemistry does not mean you can necessarily speak for him and declare his personal experiences invalid...
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wait.
Now I though quickfix was one of those system flushing drinks?
No? Well, that being the case I'll apologize here for saying that, I was clearly wrong on that one
however, I was right on the fact that if someone took heroin, a lab can't tell if they took JUST heroin, or morphine AND heroin. But if they JUST took morphine they CAN tell if they took JUST morphine or morphine AND heroin, idk if that makes sense, but to be postivie for "morphine and heroin" is redundant and ther'es really no way to tell if someone took both or just heroin.
EDIT: I just used the googl machine to to look up syntheic urine, and apparently I was 100% wrong there, quick fix IS synthetic urine, and not a system flush, so my conclusions were wrong on a few points.
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Another thing that complicates things:
I hear individuals with hep c can test positive for longer simply because of liver damage.
A little over year ago I found out I have hep c when I had super thorough bloodwork done, but the bloodwork also indicated I am in great health otherwise, so my liver has not sustained much damage.
Ugh, I definitely need to get that checked out...it's just...I have so many other health concerns in the meantime...
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Another thing that complicates things:
I hear individuals with hep c can test positive for longer simply because of liver damage.
Ugh, I definitely need to get that checked out...it's just...I have so many other health concerns in the meantime...
You've rejoined the right club.
and always take the solace in knowing that the liver is one hell of a fighting organ. it will continue to try and repair itself until it simply cant anymore.
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Another thing that complicates things:
I hear individuals with hep c can test positive for longer simply because of liver damage.
A little over year ago I found out I have hep c when I had super thorough bloodwork done, but the bloodwork also indicated I am in great health otherwise, so my liver has not sustained much damage.
Ugh, I definitely need to get that checked out...it's just...I have so many other health concerns in the meantime...
my hep c has been fucking up my urine tests badly i had 2 false positives 1 for alcohol and 1 for benzos, both of which i passed on a $40 retest, fucked up my schedule enough to cost me my job though. i use pee with methadone metabolite that i save and reuse whenever i can, but i had some problems when i ran out last time
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I'd sit around with my thumb up my ass for 3 days... Chill out for another 3, then test.
Opis are long gone after 6 days.
Maybe 5 tops... But you would have to be fucking living with an IV drip for months straight. Or have one helluva slow metabolism.
You'll be good.
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I hesitated to say anything cuz don't want folks to get paranoid, but there've been lawsuits against Ameritox & other labs for this too. They failed to follow protocols and samples were contaminated. I found out a few years ago when I noticed an article in a Pain Mgmt Journal.
So, if a sample is sent for GC/MS, it can happen-- hopefully this is super rare after the lawsuits, but tbh lab & radiology errors aren't exactly uncommon, so I just don't know--and it's not like the companies want to disclose the foul ups. I remember when they used to say they could predict *how much* of a drug was in a sample based on some algorithm. That got shot down pretty quick thank dog!
I think you can just Google this, sorry I don't have specific links as its been awhile. One woman won a huge settlement, but sorta like what happened to someone here who got a DUI 18 HOURS after taking his methadone, proving these "errors" and getting a job back, reputation or possible damage to future care b/c of erroneous stuff written in medical records is so costly in SO many ways :(
Just my .0002, but way way too much reliance (and ignoring of human errors). And way too much unnecessary testing.
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Maybe buy a home test that tests for opiates like heroin or morphine and see what comes up.
My bf did this before he tested for work. He smokes weed and took a break for a few weeks and the home tests we had were all negative.
The day he tested for work, he came out clean.
Just suggesting it to maybe ease your mind a bit.
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I agree with Candy,
I was going to suggest buying your own home kits for self-testing.
It might get a little expensive; say you buy a $23 test, and use it 3 days before your Official Work Test, and it comes back positive....
You'd have to buy another test, and wait until the day of, or the day before your official test before using it.
Now, what if your home test comes back positive 12 hours before your Official Test? There's not a heck of a lot you can do about it (maybe arrange for someone to donate their clean urine--hoping that they are actually clean).
Now, about that synthetic urine coming back positive.., well that is pretty much these guys' business--right? Providing a suitable urine substitute that will register CLEAN on any U/A test.
If they are coming back positive, then their entire business is completely fucked.
Its like:
* A Commercial Airline that crashes & kills all passengers 10 times a week,
* A Seafood company that catches only seaweek,
* A doctor that inadvertently kills 78% of their patients,
* A police force that commits felonious crimes,
* A fire department that burns down houses, and places innocent victims IN a burning building,
* A firearms company who's weapons go KABOOM! in the users' hands and injures them,
* A snow plow service that adds snow to the roadways
(okay, there are literally million of these)
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Maybe buy a home test that tests for opiates like heroin or morphine and see what comes up.
My bf did this before he tested for work. He smokes weed and took a break for a few weeks and the home tests we had were all negative.
The day he tested for work, he came out clean.
Just suggesting it to maybe ease your mind a bit.
Exactly what i was thinking. I stay clean for 6-days and then i still take a detox drink 1 hour before a test. They even come with a vitamin to make sure the creatine levels are normal.
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Just bought 25 home tests for opiates so I can have peace of mind in the future. my doc doesn't give a shit about thc
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004W817TO?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00
It's 15 dollars for 25 single dip tests...great deal.
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2nd day clean out of 5 til my next UA. I wasn't even on a big habit (3 bags a day), I was taking sub every morning and doing the bags every night, and even a teeny tiny daily habit is hard to break.
It sucks when other people get to get high but you can't, because of a drug test. Now I guess I know how other people feel when they are on probation, except they are under 1000x more pressure.
The midol + carrying around a 20 oz water bottle everywhere + every time I think about the test/get nervous, I drink half a bottle of water = peeing like it's my job. My UA is gonna pop RIGHT in 3 days. Motherfucker.
If you can't find it in you to get sober for anything else, get sober for the sake of your love for drugs...let me explain...first of all it's not like I'm some master of self controlled, I'm a horribly impulsive person...but sometimes if I know I"m tempted to do something really stupid that will really fuck up my life, I remind myself that if I fuck up my life and end up jobless/in jail/homeless, it will definitely get in the way of me being able to get high and enjoy my high...so because I want to keep getting high, sometimes I gotta not got high.
I just keep thinking of how amazing it's gonna feel when I get to do my shit after my test...
It's weird because I actually am enjoying how much better my body feels already, even after 2 days. Tomorrow I'm gonna wake up and exercise and clean until I fall over.
Also, sk8phaze what detox drink do you use? I need to get some b vitamins maybe...
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UA tomorrow. Will have been clean for 5 days. Been flushing with midol and lots of water.
WISH ME LUCK! Hopefully all goes smoothly...
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Good luck with this, it sounds like you're going to be JUST FINE, but don't forget to NOT water your urine down too much for the test, if u get super freaked out and drink an assload of water, and your piss is straight water, you're boned also. So, in short, i'd try and test your piss right when you FIRST WAKE up with your home test kits, this is usually the urine that has the most metabolites and is the least watered down. Also, when you test yourself at home, use the piss from the VERY beginning of the stream, this is the highest (along with the end of the stream) conc of matabolites. If you come back clean from that, you're GOLDEN (pardon the pun)
When you do go to the test, make sure it's not your first piss of the day, and make sure to give them mid-stream piss, not beginning, not end, that's ideal. IDK if you know that, I'm probably repeating information people already know, but I just am giving you advice form the top of my head, not trying to be a dick here.
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Hey there buddy, and I really hate to be the one to break this to u, BUT if u took heroin, they can't tell whether u took morphine AND heroin or JUST heroin.
See, heroin breaks down into two or three major "first pass" metabolites, namely, 6- monoacetyl morphine, 3 monoacetyl morphine and morphine, most land test specifically for 6 monoacetyl morphine as the "test that specifically implies heroin", but obviously morphine will show up as morphine as well.
Now, when they send it to the lab, they may test for morphine6 gluconoride, which will show the next stage of metabolism.
But anyway, png sorry short, u (dirty jerz) didn't get ducked by the "quick fix plus" people, but u probably were just positive for heroin and it didn't lower your levels enough to drop below the threshold
So, before you blame quick fix for ur "false positive", let me ask u, DID u use dope within the last 72 hrs before the test? If so, quick fix didn't fuck u, u ducked yourself.
That being said it still sucks balls u lost that Job over that dumbass shit, that the War on consciousness we face today my fellow opie, and it's a motherfuker
I think your misunderstanding me here dizzle. I used synthetic urine, not a flushing agent/drink.
Synthetic urine is a replacement for real urine, not an additive or a flushing agent meant to clean your system. I wouldn't matter what I used or when, as none of my urine went anywhere near the cup/sample.
Synthetic urine is for the testing occasions where your not observed, like for a job. Obviously this wouldn't work for parole or probation where they actually watch piss come out of your dick.
Your sent to the bathroom, with your synthetic urine in a bottle with a thermometer on it, and a hand warmer rubber banded to it.
Into the bathroom, pop open the synthetic urine, dump it into the cup, make sure the temp is within range(which it's usually spot on with the hand warmer and being next to your balls) and hand it to the tech.
None of your bodily fluids should be anywhere near anything when using synthetic urine. If it is then your fucking up
I'm guessing your thinking of flushing drinks and such.
Yes, with those recent usage, and other factors have an effect.
What you've used, or when, has no effect on a synthetic urine sample. Nothing has an effect on the test, except what's in that synthetic urine sample.
So that's how I got fucked, something was in the synthetic urine, a fuck up on their part at the lab.
EDIT/UPDATE
My bad, I just read the rest of the thread and the synthetic vs flushing confusion was cleared up already.
Should've read the whole thread and not just the reply/quote of my post. Won't happen again fam.
Any way as dizzle said, make sure it's not your first piss of the day, or even the first couple.
And some testing places have this really arbitrary way of saying your sample is "dilute". They basically go off the color, and if it's too "clear" ie lacking that yellow "piss color" they will call it a "dilute sample" and basically fail you for it, cuz they think you've been flushing, hence the clear appearance. And if they lab it, the creatine levels will be way low, cuz it basically is just water at that point.
One way around this is vitamin b complex. It will give your piss that color they look for, no matter how much water you've drank. I'd google it for the amount of it you want to take, and when, as I don't recall off the top of my head, but I do know that it will make your piss yellow, and defeat the totally arbitrary visual color check they use.
Hope this helps you. Lotta good info in this thread.
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So I had 5 days to detox. And I failed. But very luckily, I did not get caught or accused of cheating by my doc which was my main concern. I've learned my lesson about using synthetic pee. Now, I also ordered 25 dip tests for opiates off the Internet (my doc doesn't care about me smoking weed). I did a few tests, and in the future I can test myself beforehand so I am prepared. Here are the findings:
1) The synthetic pee I ordered failed horribly. I want my money back!
2) My current pee (after 5 days of drinking water but no physical activity whatsoever and my on again, off again horrible diet) failed, but there is a very faint line. So there's hope. And this was 5 days clean after daily use for months and months, but lately it'd only been 2-3 bags/day. So yeah. In the past, when I would chip 5-6 bags once a week, it would generally take me 6 days to pass with no additional effort. But my new dealer has stronger shit, so that has to be taken into account too.
3) I tested water + a tiny piece of suboxone put directly into it to see if it would work. There was a moderately faint line, technically a pass but could also be "faint positive".
4) I tested water + bigger piece of suboxone put directly into it. It failed, there was an extremely faint line that was lighter than #3.
So it seems putting suboxone directly into clean pee does not work reliably. It may have a tiny chance of working, if you put the perfect, tiniest amount in. I read about the chemistry of dip tests and it seems that the un-metabolized bupe and/or the naloxone successfully competes with the antibodies in the test enough to cause a positive for opiates by not having the line show up.
My next test is in 7 days. I should have just stayed clean, but today was such a roller coaster of emotional I used 5 bags. I thought they were going to accuse me of cheating and kick me out a bunch of times-I think they accused someone else today, and the head of the clinic even called me into his office for a private chat-I thought I was fucking DONE. I saw my life flash before my eyes. But they don't suspect a thing, thank God. But I have a new plan for the upcoming week, I plan to pass naturally until I'm no longer under the microscope:
1) I will be drinking a lot more water/green tea. Green tea speeds up the metabolism. I was thinking of aiming for 1.5 gallons of water a day, but spread out throughout the entire day. I've been doing maybe 2/3 of a gallon per day so far. I carry around a water bottle that holds 20 fluid ounces. I've been drinking 4-5 of those a day, I want to up it to about 10. Does anyone know how much water would actually hurt me and put me at risk for water poisoning? I heard this amount of water can kill a 165 lb person, but that's if they drink it in one sitting. Obviously if I am peeing clear I will ease up, and I will try to use common sense so I don't die from water. Also, add some lemon into my water because apparently lemon helps speed up metabolism.
2) I will keep taking Midol for the diuretic and caffeine in it. Maybe up my dose to 4 tablets a day instead of 2 (it's safe according to the package to take up to 6 a day but I'm not gonna push it).
3) EXERCISE. I will aim for an hour of cardio a day, low impact on the elliptical if possible but also some running too. Should I stop the day before the test, though? Thoughts? Will trading in some of that cardio for strength training help my metabolism? Here are some quick exercise tips I gleaned off the internet for speeding up metabolism via exercise: do strength training before cardio, do a workout in the morning, do interval training, stretch.
4) Eat a lot more. Especially protein, and try to cut down on sugar/carbs. Eat in as many small meals as possible.
5) I will take a hot bath every night, followed by a hot shower. The heat/warmth will speed up my metabolism, not to mention feel really good after all that intense exercise.
6) Get enough sleep, 8 hours a night.
7) Day of the test: drink water til I pee clear, take B vitamins 2 hours before to get the yellow color back.
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Awesome info in this thread. I just want to add, I have failed a UA , pissing hot for heroin,8 (eight) days after using. This was tar. I have pissed hot for cocaine 6 (six) days after smoking a small amount of crack every night for a week or so. My metabolism is slow. So, everybody is different and some people keep dope in their system for a long time .
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I have also pissed hot for heroin 8 days after using. That was my longest. But before that I'd been on a ridiculous daily run, and without additional effort.
I believe I failed because usually it takes me 6 days to clear out, but my drinking water and flushing would have worked if it weren't for the upgraded quality of drugs from the new dealer, and the fact that I'd been using daily form months on end beforehand. There was a faint line anyway though, so I was close to passing. That gives me hope.
Also, $15 for 25 opiate dip tests off the Internet so I can check myself beforehand.
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Actually, if you've got some good refs. on dip stick tests, do you know what the control line looks for? Like, if you just tested water, we know that's not gonna show the control line, right? But it WILL show the drug line passed?
So, if I understand this correctly, the drug line HAS to be a POSITIVE TEST, ie, they are looking for the presence of a substance. If that substance isn't there, then the test is passed.
The urine (control line) test, I'd guess would be a NEGATIVE TEST, ie, they are looking for the ABSENCE of a substance, if that substance IS there, then the test is passed.
So, the big question is: WHAT DO THEY LOOK FOR IN THE URINE? So, basically, if we knew what triggers that control line to show, we could take a water sample, and add some of that, and you'll have a test that SHOWS the control line, but DOES NOT SHOW the drug line...
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Ive heard they check the specific gravity, and look for t.he amounts of creatinine. People seem to have good luck by freezing thrir own clean urine. They apparently cant tell the age of the urine.
There is areddit ama from a guy that does the tests. He said that 99% of tests dont check for fake urine. its an interesting read.
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When I was on Parole... a faint line was a pass.
Even if there were a faint line, and they presume you to be positive. Once sent off to the lab for GC/MS (Gas Chromography Mass Spectrometry) it will pass with a negative result.
Worked in my situation.
As far as I knew, as long as there be a line (faint or bold) you're a pass.
Then again.... who the fuck knows.
These things are subject to so so so many variables.
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I'm sorry you failed your original test and I agree, I'd want my money back too!
I've never heard of synthetic urine that supposed to be clean EXCEPT make you test positive for something. Now I'm not saying one doesn't exist but in all my life I’ve never seen a good, successful one.
The list of things you laid out earlier today to be clean should be fine. Considering you've been clean or mostly clean for the last 6 days, another 7 on-top of that SHOULD, should clean out your system.
Opiates tend to stay in your system for 72-96 hours but that's with one time use. With repeated use, even if it isn't lipid soluble and stored in fat cells can take more than a week to several weeks to entirely clean out of your system. All that being said, being clean for the better part of two weeks should be fine.
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Ive heard they check the specific gravity, and look for t.he amounts of creatinine. People seem to have good luck by freezing thrir own clean urine. They apparently cant tell the age of the urine.
There is areddit ama from a guy that does the tests. He said that 99% of tests dont check for fake urine. its an interesting read.
Now, that makes sense on the testing that is done at actual facilities, like a GC/MS test. But I'm talking about the dipsticks, they MUST have some type of trigger that shows that control line. I mean, if you put straight water in there, and ran a dip stick test, it wouldn't show the presence of drugs, obviously, but it probably wouldn't show the control line, right? Like it would know that it's just water, right??
IDK, something isn't making sense to me here, TOTP can you chime in on how exactly dip stick tests work? am I on the right track between this post and my last one about the positive and negative indicators?
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Hey Dizzle, as far as I understand, it is done by immunio assay (sp?)
The control line appears with the intro of ANY fluid.
I don't think there is anything more to it than that.
But as far as detecting the specific drugs on the stick test, assays in your urine act as a marker. If your assay count is above the designated threshold determined by SAMSHA, You now show positive for said 'drug'.
Not sure if I helped ya out, or echoed what u already understood.
Either way, here u go buddy.
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I hesitated to say anything cuz don't want folks to get paranoid, but there've been lawsuits against Ameritox & other labs for this too. They failed to follow protocols and samples were contaminated. I found out a few years ago when I noticed an article in a Pain Mgmt Journal.
So, if a sample is sent for GC/MS, it can happen-- hopefully this is super rare after the lawsuits, but tbh lab & radiology errors aren't exactly uncommon, so I just don't know--and it's not like the companies want to disclose the foul ups. I remember when they used to say they could predict *how much* of a drug was in a sample based on some algorithm. That got shot down pretty quick thank dog!
I think you can just Google this, sorry I don't have specific links as its been awhile. One woman won a huge settlement, but sorta like what happened to someone here who got a DUI 18 HOURS after taking his methadone, proving these "errors" and getting a job back, reputation or possible damage to future care b/c of erroneous stuff written in medical records is so costly in SO many ways :(
Just my .0002, but way way too much reliance (and ignoring of human errors). And way too much unnecessary testing.
true. but with liquid chromatography/mass spectrometry the data has been proven to be quantitative. not just qualitative as with GC/MS.
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Due to "metabolism", the quantative doesn't really mean much..........you could take the same amount of a drug at the same time as another person, and because of the differences in the rate one metabolizes, you could show much more in your system, and the other person's amount could be just traces.
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My limited experience with these tests is that no matter how faint the line is, its a pass.
I can see some guy--trying to keep his job--arguing with his boss that there REALLY IS A LINE THERE, its just rilly faint.
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Due to "metabolism", the quantative doesn't really mean much..........you could take the same amount of a drug at the same time as another person, and because of the differences in the rate one metabolizes, you could show much more in your system, and the other person's amount could be just traces.
this is technically true. but there is a ballpark-type "window" in which are a pool of people large enough to determine the averages. there is a bit of a precedent. not legally, as much as clinically.
there is also a simple buccal swab test which examines the specific gene (in the CYP2) that causes variations in opiate metabolism.
there are categories... poor metabolizer, extensive (normal), ultrarapid metabolizer... but what we find is that the population distribution when graphed, is a bell curve. meaning +70% of people are "normal". so even without knowing your specific gene and genotype, i can fairly safely assume you are an average metabolizer.