dopetalk
Core Topics => Drugs => Cannabis and Cannabinoids => Topic started by: Chip on February 03, 2016, 04:45:22 PM
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source: http://www.canberratimes.com.au/comment/synthetic-drugs-are-killing-our-kids-so-lets-take-control-20160202-gmjfhz.html
Editor: now we have the first fatality ever recorded for synthetic cannabis
Synthetic drugs are killing our kids, so let's take control
Prohibiting recreational drugs hasn't worked, so it's time to try regulating them
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Synthetic cannabis has been implicated in the death of Dean Shield
We lost another young Australian to drugs this week. Dean Shield, 17, was found dead, allegedly after consuming a synthetic drug.
What are synthetic drugs? In many respects they are akin to many illicit substances – they are, more often than not, manufactured and sold in shoddy conditions and without any control. But synthetic drugs are different in that they are the cheaper and nastier version of many other illicit substances – although it's difficult to believe cheaper and nastier is possible.
It's foolish to think that just telling kids not to take drugs is going to magically start working. It never has and it never will.
Once again, the calls from police and politicians have begun. "Police and politicians warn kids considering experimenting with drugs not to do so." Yes. "Say no to drugs." If it was as simple as that, Shield wouldn't have tried the drug in the first place.
Synthetic cannabis has been linked to the tragic death of teenager Dean Shield.
And no, he didn't try it because he'd been given the wrong information. He didn't try it because he was a bad kid.
He tried it because he was a kid. Statistics show that about 42 per cent of Australians aged 14 years and over have used illicit drugs in their lifetime. Nearly half of us.
And in the 20 to 29 age group, 27 per cent have used illicit drugs in the past year. Does banning them really solve the problem? How many young people have we lost recently to illegal substances at dance parties? What alternatives are there?
For a very brief moment in time, every country around the world looked to New Zealand as it embarked on an adventure into the unknown territory of synthetic drug regulation.
Most countries around the world are at loss with the surging synthetic drug market. What makes synthetic drugs even more difficult to prohibit, is that they can be sold in various forms; under the guise of "bath salts", for example.
While Australian states moved to ban synthetic drugs a few years ago, New Zealand decided to try something radically different: regulate them.
That is, allow government-approved manufacturers, distributors and retailers to sell them legally. But the moment didn't last long. Something strange stopped the landmark regulation in its tracks. No, it wasn't politicians under the pressure of parents. No, it wasn't the police. It was animal rights activists. Yes, animal rights activists.
The only way to test these new substances safely was on animals – not humans. And it's a fair point by the animal activists – why should the animals suffer, if the drug will poison them?
That is where the New Zealand regulation has reached an impasse. But before the regulation came to a halt, there had been some serious progress. For instance, there was a decrease – yes, a decrease – in the number of stores selling synthetic drugs. And there is now a record of most, if not all, the current manufacturers, distributors and retailers of these substances.
I was in Auckland for a week during this brief moment in New Zealand's history and I have to say it was remarkable. While it was confronting being in the same room as police, dealers, politicians and consumers of these drugs, one word kept coming back to me: control.
I am a self-confessed control freak. And I know when it comes to illicit drugs, let alone synthetic drugs, we don't have control in
Australia.
It's foolish to think that just telling kids not to take drugs is going to magically start working. It never has and it never will.
It's also foolish to close our eyes to the problem and think there is no answer, other than to spend billions more on law enforcement.
The New Zealand approach sought a different solution. Where previously police had little knowledge of who was making and selling what, they were able to keep a watch on things and limit the number of places where synthetic drugs were sold. New Zealand effectively took control.
That's exactly what regulation is – taking control. And when we control the manufacture, distribution and use of a drug, we can begin to control the harms they cause. We can intervene earlier in the cycle of harm that users experience when we know who they are, we can provide information and education, and we can divert them into treatment. And, most importantly, we can save lives.
The New Zealand model might have met a roadblock, but the goal of regulation is still worth pursuing.
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"How many young people have we lost recently to illegal substances at dance parties?"
Clearly, it's not the drugs, it's the DANCING! Wake up, people, stop all them kids dancing! It's gotten waaaay out of hand with all that dancing, God dammit.
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"How many young people have we lost recently to illegal substances at dance parties?"
Clearly, it's not the drugs, it's the DANCING! Wake up, people, stop all them kids dancing! It's gotten waaaay out of hand with all that dancing, God dammit.
Side effects of the new drug "Dance" include Fast and frantic motion. Violent sweating. Cramping. Dehydration. Dryness of mouth. Increased heart rate , blisters, heavy breathing, shortness of breath, and in extreme cases can result in death.
Know the signs. Keep our children safe.
Dance....NOT EVEN ONCE.
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And a hero was born...his name....Kevin bacon and boy can he dance.....
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but seriously, synthetic THC can be lethal.
I did not know that.
just as well that I rarely go dancing these days ... but I love it !
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Safe to say that synthetic THC substitutes are not disco accessories?
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ahh ... the twisted bitches.
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but seriously, synthetic THC can be lethal.
I did not know that.
just as well that I rarely go dancing these days ... but I love it !
It seems there's no certainty that synthetic THC killed him in this case. Just a "synthetic drug" was to blame according to the article. And a caption under a photo said "synthetic cannabis linked to the death". Potential, yes.
The blend of unknown chemicals is probably what killed him. There is more than just synthetic cannabinoids in those "herbal spice blends". Lab testing has found things like RC benzos, amphetamines, hallucinogens, tryptamines, and even opiates in those spice blends.
I'm just assuming spice from the pictures being shown. Who knows what else the kid may have ingested. Also I wonder what exactly killed him. Was it a heart attack, respiratory suppression, liver failure, maybe even pre-congenital? I've only seen one overdose related to spice, but it was combined with a shot of chiva.
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That "Spice" shit (we more often call it "K2" in Northern Virginia) has caused several deaths in Virginia. Shit was OFF THE MUH-FUCKIN CHAIN in Fairfax county until the cops shut it down last June. People walkin around like zombies and shit. It's especially popular with a subset of the homeless population around there (and pretty much everywhere - I saw a thing about it in the UK and it was being used by "rough sleepers" over there too), because I think it numbs you out so bad that you don't mind sitting out in the rain freezing your ass off in Winter.
I saw one report on the local news that said a lab analysis had found a synthetic opiate in one of the blends for sale up in NoVA. What blend, where it was being sold and what compound specifically was identified was not disclosed in the report but I did hear that.
I too am curious as to what event actually precipitates death from Synth. Cann. OD. Is it heart failure or stroke or seizures? what exactly? I have seen a couple people seize up right after taking one hit off a pipe loaded with some of that shit.
A strange effect of the synth. Canns. is that they cause hypothermia, in some cases bad enough to cause shivering.
The withdrawal from a synth. Cann. habit makes a dope kick look like a walk in the park on a nice Sunday afternoon.
GAWD DAMN! I am sooooo glad I don't mess with that shit anymore. It causes brain damage bad too.
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So one thing I've read that seemed to add some understanding to why THC is so safe and these new cannaboids may not be is the fact that THC is a partial agonist and the new compounds are usually full agonists. At least that seems to make sense... bupe sucks.
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They've altered these synthetic cannabinoids so much its so far away from THC, these C1, and C2 agonists are modified so much lord knows how its gonna react to these new unstudied chemicals.
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And anyone who has tried any of the 4th- (or is it 10th now?)generation synthetic cannabinoids out now can tell you - it's a totally different animal than an ordinary weed high. I mean it's so far removed from the effects of THC that it might as well be a whole nother drug class. I would liken the "high" (that's too mild a term) from these compounds more to a cross between a big hit of PCP and heroin at the same time, with a pinch of LSD thrown in, than to a weed buzz.
Mid October was the last time I took a hit of any of that shit, and I actually had some profound auditory disruptions, like everything I was hearing was going through a "flange" effect - turned up to "11." People that play guitar will know what I'm talking about there. I didn't even know that the human brain could produce effects like that, chemically induced or not. It sounded like an electronic effect, rather than one produced by the brain.
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@Zoops How did u finally kick the K2? I remember u going thru tough times having to smoke it regularly. Im glad u moved n ur off of it.
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@Zoops How did u finally kick the K2? I remember u going thru tough times having to smoke it regularly. Im glad u moved n ur off of it.
Kicked it a couple different ways - one time, I drank like a fish until I was physically dependent on alcohol, then went to detox to get off the alcohol. That was last March. Another time, more recently - last Summer when the cops finally shut down the spot that was pumpin it - I started using H about 3 or 4 times a week, smoking some crack and drinking a bit to get the memory of that shit out of my head, but I wasn't hooked nearly as bad that time as I was when I drank to get off it.
I actually used K2 to get off subs, which I had taken to get off PST in late 2013. Started smokin that stuff around May 2014 when I quit the subs.
As an aside, I think I'll need to go back on subs when I quit the PST again. It would be great to get ahold of like one strip to help me out in the event of an emergency. I'm worried that the seed supply will all of the sudden just dry up like it did for a while a few months ago. I'd be up shit's creek after about 4 days if that happened. I could make 8mg last a week.
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I think this is where living in California has me biased, but be that as it may...
Why in hell would anyone smoke synthetic weed when real weed is so readily available?
These synthetics come from China and contain fuckall kinda shit. Consider:
*In the past several years, Chinese-made pet food has been found to contain melamine;
*China produces half the apple juice consumed in the US, but use unsafe levels of pesticides on their crops
*31% of US-consumed garlic originates in China and tainted Chinese garlic has been found by US inspectors
*A recent scandal involves China's production of fake, plastic rice (produced from potatoes and a synthetic resin) being used to add bulk
If this is what's found in food, what do you think goes into fake dope?
Not for human consumption, indeed.
I realize that not every state (or country) has legalized or decriminalized weed, but hasn't the availability of legal cannabis made pot easier for everyone to obtain?
In any case, glad you're free and clear, Zoops.
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The shit isn't pot anymore bro... like Zoops said... it's more PCP like. It's not really serving the pot clientele anymore. It's a hard drug.
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I think this is where living in California has me biased, but be that as it may...
Why in hell would anyone smoke synthetic weed when real weed is so readily available?
These synthetics come from China and contain fuckall kinda shit. Consider:
*In the past several years, Chinese-made pet food has been found to contain melamine;
*China produces half the apple juice consumed in the US, but use unsafe levels of pesticides on their crops
*31% of US-consumed garlic originates in China and tainted Chinese garlic has been found by US inspectors
*A recent scandal involves China's production of fake, plastic rice (produced from potatoes and a synthetic resin) being used to add bulk
If this is what's found in food, what do you think goes into fake dope?
Not for human consumption, indeed.
I realize that not every state (or country) has legalized or decriminalized weed, but hasn't the availability of legal cannabis made pot easier for everyone to obtain?
In any case, glad you're free and clear, Zoops.
I've not touched / smoked / used / seen any herbal incense since March 2012, so I'm not familiar with this new, harder type of spice.
But for me, back when JWH-018 was still around, I liked synthetic weed because it didn't make me nearly as paranoid as regular weed tends to make me. If I smoked it in low to moderate doses, I got no paranoia. If I went overboard, which eventually happened, it did cause paranoia.
So in the beginning it was nice to be able to enjoy the positive aspects of weed that I like (making music sound amazing, making boredom more tolerable, e.g.), without the negative aspects I don't like (increased introspection, paranoia, e.g.).
But as JWH-018 became illegal, and as manufacturers started using other chemicals to stay ahead of the game, the shit changed. It went from being a really pleasant, enjoyable high to a harsh, nasty one that I didn't like at all.
When I last bought it in 2012, I was preparing for a seed tea kick. I had like $70 left, and I could have bought a few more pounds of seeds to try a quick taper, which I'm sure I would have failed. Or I could have bought the herbal incense to use as a w/d aide.
I went with the herbal incense. I hadn't bought it for like the past four or so months. Not since like November or December 2011. So it most likely had ample time to change yet again. When I was in w/d and smoked it for the first time since having last tried it, it was absofuckinglutely horrible.
It definitely helped with the RLS and the insomnia, but it immediately sent me into paranoia overdrive. It also only lasted about 3-4 hours before it wore off and I had to smoke more to get the same w/d relief.
I spent the next ten or so days doing that until I just couldn't do it anymore. By then I somehow had gotten more money, and went out and bought more seeds. I stayed on them for the rest of March, all of April, and the first few days of May 2012 until finally I got on Subs again.
I'll never do that spice shit again. From reading here, it's gotten much, much worse. I can't even imagine how horrible it would feel to me now.
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Yeah, I kept getting more and more amazed at how powerful the shit was getting. When I quit smoking it, you could literally put like a piece the size of, say, half a grain of rice in your pipe, smoke that, and be totally ZOOTED. As it got stronger and stronger, though, the duration of the high got shorter and shorter. To the point where, when it was as potent as I described in the previous sentences, it would last only 20-30 minutes before you had to smoke more. The w/d would kick in after like 1.5-2 hours without it. Truly awful to be trapped in that madness.
And there are perhaps tens of thousands of people in the US alone that are engaged in that daily chase, maybe a million worldwide.
And when people say, "why don't you just smoke regular weed," they are forgetting that regular weed produces a high completely different from this shit.
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The shit isn't pot anymore bro... like Zoops said... it's more PCP like. It's not really serving the pot clientele anymore. It's a hard drug.
Exactly. A hard drug that produces an intense physical dependency.
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Last time I was in SF, there was a smoke shop selling 4 or 5 different kinds of spice. One brand I recognized from back in 2012 when I was smoking the stuff called "Black mamba". I've been tempted to buy some lately.
I still think about it all the time too. Despite all the negatives, might try it out again to see if it's any fun to me.
From what I Hear, some smoke shops still sell it behind the counter. But none sell it in the open anymore. Kind of have to be "in the know".
I remember It used to synergize with what ever drug I was using along with it. Stuff was a crazy good combo with some Chiva.
I imagine a world where all drugs are legal. Think of all the amazing drug cocktails that would exist. Like when I see all the alcohol at a bar, I sometimes fantasize about If opiates were accepted in place of alcohol in our society, and instead of all the different alcohol, it's all different opiates. I wonder what the "well" and "topshelf " opiates would be?
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guy: hey bartender, git down here dammit!
bartender: watchu wont?
guy: I'll take a shot of oxymorphone with a side of dilaudid, and a hitta crack right now. and keep the crack comin' bro.
bartender: yoo wanna starta tab homie?
guy: shoor, here's ma card, mang
bartender: 'aight, roll up yer sleeve. Yoo wanna glass stem or a bent up can ta smoke dem rocks wif?
guy: Ah brought ma own joint, rite hear.
bartender: aaah, a car antenna with some chore stuck up inside it, I see you is an old timer.
guy: betta fuckin bleeve dat mang.