Optimised Fire Suppression Formula for Large Fires

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Optimised Fire Suppression Formula for Large Fires_250125

https://acrobat.adobe.com/id/urn:aaid:sc:AP:1f5d665c-b100-431f-a5ab-1de6154bf004

Soapy_Fire_Suppression_Formula.pdf

https://acrobat.adobe.com/id/urn:aaid:sc:AP:a017cd1d-0a40-44d0-9224-1d3d55d3bce5


What non-toxic substances can extinguish a wood fire, fanned by wind ?

To extinguish a wood fire fanned by wind using non-toxic substances, you need to focus on removing heat, oxygen, or the fuel source. Here are some options:
1. Water
• How it works: Water cools the fire and lowers the temperature below the combustion point, effectively extinguishing it.
• Considerations: In windy conditions, you may need a steady stream or spray to ensure coverage as the wind can disperse the water.
2. Sand or Dirt
• How it works: Sand or dirt smothers the fire by cutting off its oxygen supply.
• Considerations: Ensure the layer is thick enough to cover the fire completely; otherwise, wind can blow the material away.
3. Baking Soda
• How it works: Baking soda releases carbon dioxide when heated, which helps suffocate the fire.
• Considerations: This is best for small fires, as large quantities would be impractical.
4. Fire Blankets
• How it works: Non-toxic fire blankets made from materials like fiberglass or wool smother the fire by depriving it of oxygen.
• Considerations: Wind may make it difficult to secure the blanket over the fire.
5. Foam or Gel Extinguishers (Environmentally Friendly)
• How it works: Firefighting foams or gels are designed to coat and suffocate the fire. Some eco-friendly options are non-toxic and biodegradable.
• Considerations: These are effective but may require specialized equipment to apply.
6. Wet Burlap Sacks
• How it works: Wet burlap sacks can be thrown over the fire to smother it, similar to a fire blanket.
• Considerations: Ensure the sacks are soaked thoroughly, and use them quickly, as the heat may dry them out.
7. Steam (If Feasible)
• How it works: Steam displaces oxygen and cools the fire simultaneously.
• Considerations: This requires equipment to generate steam, so it's more suited for controlled settings.
Key Points in Windy Conditions:
• The wind can reignite embers, so ensure all smoldering materials are completely extinguished.
• Combine methods if necessary, such as water followed by a layer of sand or dirt, to counter the wind's effect.
Would you like advice tailored to a specific situation, like a campfire or a larger-scale fire?

How well would a mix of baking soda and water work for very large-scale fires ?

A mix of baking soda and water can work as a fire suppressant for small to medium fires, but its effectiveness diminishes for large-scale fires due to several limitations:
How It Works:
• Baking soda releases carbon dioxide when heated, which helps suffocate the fire by displacing oxygen.
• Water cools the fire and lowers the temperature below the combustion point.
Effectiveness for Large-Scale Fires:
• Scale Limitations:
• Large-scale fires require enormous quantities of baking soda and water to achieve suppression.
• The reaction of baking soda releasing CO₂ is relatively small-scale and not rapid enough to suppress intense fires.
• Logistical Challenges:
• Mixing and transporting the required quantities of baking soda and water for large fires is impractical.
• Wind could disperse the solution before it can coat the fire effectively.
• Reaction Rate:
• Baking soda needs direct heat to release CO₂, and the reaction may be too slow to extinguish flames in rapidly spreading fires.
• Residual Cleanup:
• Baking soda leaves a residue, which could complicate post-fire cleanup in large-scale scenarios.
Comparison to Other Methods:
• Foam Suppressants: Firefighting foams are more effective for large-scale fires because they form a long-lasting barrier that smothers flames and prevents reignition.
• Water Alone: A large volume of water delivered via hoses or aircraft is often more effective than combining it with baking soda.
• Dry Chemicals: Large-scale fire extinguishers or systems using dry chemical suppressants (like monoammonium phosphate) are much more efficient and practical.
Best Use Cases for Baking Soda and Water:
• Baking soda and water are best suited for:
• Small fires in controlled environments.
• Grease fires or small electrical fires where toxicity is a concern.
Alternatives for Large-Scale Fires:
For large-scale fires, consider:
• Aerial water drops (water or retardants like eco-friendly gel).
• Firefighting foam for suppression and prevention of reignition.
• Earthworks (e.g., sand, dirt, firebreaks) to cut off the fire's fuel source.
In summary, while baking soda and water have useful properties, they are not viable for large-scale fire suppression. Water alone or specialized firefighting agents would be far more effective.

What about adding a weak acid like citric acid to the mix, so it gets frothy ?

Adding a weak acid like citric acid to a mix of baking soda and water could create a frothy reaction due to the release of carbon dioxide (CO₂) gas. This reaction could potentially help smother a fire by creating a foam that displaces oxygen. However, for large-scale fires, there are several considerations to take into account:
How It Works:
• Reaction Chemistry:
• Baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) reacts with citric acid in water to produce CO₂ gas:
\text{NaHCO}_3 + \text{C}_6\text{H}_8\text{O}_7 \rightarrow \text{CO}_2 + \text{H}_2\text{O} + \text{C}_6\text{H}_5\text{O}_7\text{Na}
• Cooling Effect:
• The water in the mix contributes to cooling the fire, reducing the heat below the combustion point.
• Foam Effect:
• The foam from the reaction could cling to surfaces, potentially smothering flames and preventing reignition.
Effectiveness for Large-Scale Fires:
• Advantages:
• CO₂ Release: The froth can displace oxygen locally, similar to the effect of firefighting foam.
• Foam Coverage: The foamy texture could cover burning materials, aiding in suppression.
• Limitations:
• Volume Required: The quantities of baking soda, citric acid, and water needed for large-scale fires are impractically high.
• Reaction Speed: The reaction is relatively fast but may not sustain enough CO₂ output to suppress intense flames continuously.
• Wind Dispersion: Wind could blow the foam away, reducing its effectiveness.
• Logistics: Mixing large amounts of these materials on-site during a fire would be challenging.
Practical Considerations:
• Cost and Availability: Baking soda and citric acid are more expensive than water, sand, or foam for large-scale use.
• Reaction Control: The reaction is hard to control, especially in an outdoor, windy environment.
• Effectiveness Against Intense Heat: Large fires generate significant heat, which may rapidly dissipate the CO₂ and foam.
Better Alternatives for Large-Scale Fires:
If foam or froth is needed, firefighting foam or aerial fire retardants (like eco-friendly gels) are more effective:
• These solutions are designed for large-scale application and provide better coverage and heat resistance.
• Foam suppressants stay in place longer and are less affected by wind compared to a baking soda and citric acid mixture.
Small-Scale Applications:
For small, contained fires, this mix might work reasonably well:
• Proportions: Combine baking soda and citric acid in a 3:1 ratio (by weight) with water to generate significant froth.
• Direct Application: Apply the foamy solution directly to the flames to smother and cool them.
In summary, while adding citric acid to a baking soda mix could improve the foam's fire-suppressing ability, it is not practical for large-scale fires. Firefighting foams or other professional suppression methods are far more effective in those scenarios.

Yes but they're inherently more toxic, correct ?

Yes, commercial firefighting foams and retardants are generally more toxic compared to a simple mix of baking soda and citric acid, which is inherently non-toxic. However, the degree of toxicity depends on the specific type of foam or retardant used:
1. Toxicity of Baking Soda and Citric Acid Mix:
• Low Toxicity: Both baking soda and citric acid are food-grade substances. They are biodegradable, environmentally friendly, and safe for humans, animals, and the surrounding ecosystem.
• Byproducts: The reaction produces carbon dioxide (CO₂), water, and sodium citrate (a harmless salt often used in food and cosmetics).
• Environmental Impact: Minimal, as the byproducts dissolve or integrate into the soil and water without causing harm.
2. Toxicity of Firefighting Foams and Retardants:
• Aqueous Film-Forming Foams (AFFF):
• These often contain per- and polyfluoroalkyl substances (PFAS), which are persistent chemicals that do not break down in the environment and can accumulate in living organisms.
• Toxicity: PFAS compounds are linked to health issues, including cancer, hormonal disruption, and environmental contamination.
• Class A/B Foams:
• Some contain hydrocarbons or surfactants that are less persistent than PFAS but still introduce contaminants into the environment.
• Biodegradable Options: Newer formulations claim to be eco-friendly, but even these can have localized environmental impacts, such as nutrient imbalances in waterways.
• Retardants (Gels or Salts):
• Some fire retardants use ammonium phosphate or sulfate, which can leach into soil and water, causing ecological damage like algal blooms.
Comparing the Two:
3. When to Use Baking Soda + Citric Acid:
• Environmentally Sensitive Areas: Forests, parks, or near water sources where chemical contamination is a concern.
• Small-Scale Fires: Campfires, trash fires, or controlled burns where large-scale suppression isn’t needed.
• Situations Where Non-Toxicity is Crucial: Fires near agriculture, residential areas, or wildlife habitats.
Trade-Off:
While the baking soda + citric acid mix is safer, it lacks the long-lasting suppression capability and scalability of commercial foams or retardants. If non-toxicity is the highest priority, the mix is a viable choice for smaller or controlled fires, but it may not suffice for rapidly spreading, large-scale fires.
Would you like suggestions for enhancing the mix to improve its fire suppression capability while keeping it non-toxic?






To enhance the fire suppression capability of a baking soda and citric acid mix while maintaining its non-toxic properties, you can incorporate additional ingredients or optimize the formulation. Here are some ideas:
1. Add a Natural Thickening Agent for Better Foam Retention
• Why: Thickeners improve the foam's adherence to surfaces, preventing it from being easily blown away by wind or dissipated by heat.
• Options:
• Cornstarch or xanthan gum: Natural thickeners that can create a more stable foam.
• Agar-agar: A plant-based thickener that forms a gel-like consistency.
• How: Dissolve a small amount (1–3%) of the thickener in warm water before mixing it with baking soda and citric acid.
2. Incorporate Biodegradable Surfactants for Foam Stability
• Why: Surfactants create smaller, more stable bubbles in the foam, increasing its surface area and fire-smothering capability.
• Options:
• Soap nut (reetha) extract: A natural, biodegradable surfactant.
• Castile soap: A gentle, plant-based soap.
• Decyl glucoside or coco-glucoside: Mild, non-toxic surfactants commonly used in eco-friendly cleaning products.
• How: Add 1–2% surfactant by weight to the water before mixing.
3. Use Cold Water for Longer Foam Life
• Why: Cold water slows down the reaction between baking soda and citric acid, prolonging foam generation and effectiveness.
• How: Keep the water chilled before mixing.
4. Add Fine Clay or Sand for Smothering
• Why: Adding fine particles enhances the fire suppression effect by physically covering embers and blocking oxygen.
• Options:
• Bentonite clay: A non-toxic, natural mineral that helps smother fires.
• Fine sand: A cheap, eco-friendly option.
• How: Add 10–20% fine clay or sand to the mix. Stir it thoroughly to ensure even distribution.
5. Increase Carbon Dioxide Output with Controlled Ratios
• Why: Maximizing CO₂ production improves the mix's ability to suffocate flames.
• Optimal Ratio:
• Baking soda to citric acid: 3:1 by weight for a consistent, frothy reaction.
• Avoid excessive citric acid, which can dilute the foam’s effect.
6. Include Borax for Flame Retardancy
• Why: Borax (sodium borate) is a natural fire retardant that suppresses combustion and prevents reignition.
• How: Add 5–10% borax powder to the mix.
7. Scale Up Application with Delivery Systems
• Backpack Sprayer: A pressurized sprayer can mix and apply the foamy solution over larger areas.
• Fire Hoses with a Mixer Attachment: Mix baking soda, citric acid, and surfactant into a water line for continuous foam generation.
Example Recipe (1 Liter of Solution):
• Water (cold): 900 mL
• Baking soda: 60 g (6%)
• Citric acid: 20 g (2%)
• Xanthan gum: 3 g (0.3%)
• Castile soap: 10 mL (1%)
• Borax powder: 30 g (3%)
• Optional: 100 g fine sand or bentonite clay for smothering.
Steps:
• Dissolve the xanthan gum or thickener in water first to create a gel base.
• Add the baking soda, borax, and optional fine particles, stirring thoroughly.
• Mix in the citric acid and surfactant just before application for maximum foam.
Key Benefits:
• Non-toxic: Safe for the environment, humans, and animals.
• Improved Smothering: Foam clings to surfaces and fine particles block oxygen flow.
• Enhanced Stability: Thickeners and surfactants prevent foam from dispersing too quickly.
•
Would you like advice on testing this formulation or scaling it for specific use cases?

Scaling for fires of catastrophic proportions and then testing proof-of-concept but firstly explain why obvious environmentally sound non-toxic options aren't the first option ?

Scaling a non-toxic, environmentally sound fire suppressant like a baking soda and citric acid-based mix for catastrophic fires involves significant challenges—primarily logistical and practical rather than conceptual. However, your second question, about why such solutions aren't prioritized in catastrophic fire scenarios, ties into several complex factors. Let me address that first.
Why Non-Toxic, Environmentally Sound Options Aren't the First Choice for Large-Scale Fires
• Cost and Availability:
• Traditional firefighting solutions (like chemical foams and water drops) are more readily available in industrial quantities.
• Baking soda, citric acid, and natural thickeners are produced primarily for food and personal care, not emergency firefighting, leading to supply chain limitations for scaling up.
• Large-scale extraction, transportation, and storage of eco-friendly materials would add significant costs.
• Performance and Efficiency:
• Commercial foams and fire retardants are optimized for heat resistance, adherence, and long-lasting effects. Non-toxic solutions, while safe, may not meet the performance standards needed for fast-spreading fires fueled by intense heat and wind.
• Non-toxic options often don’t address the problem of reignition, which is a critical issue for catastrophic fires. Retardants like ammonium phosphate chemically alter materials to make them fire-resistant, something a natural mix doesn’t achieve effectively.
• Infrastructure and Equipment:
• Current firefighting infrastructure (planes, helicopters, hoses) is designed to deliver water or commercially available suppressants in bulk. A frothy mix like citric acid and baking soda would require new systems for mixing and delivery at scale.
• The foam from a natural mix might degrade too quickly under high wind and heat, requiring continuous reapplication.
• Regulatory Inertia and Familiarity:
• Firefighting organizations and governments rely on tried-and-true methods with established protocols and supply chains.
• Testing, approval, and adoption of new methods take time, even when safer alternatives are available. This lag is exacerbated by bureaucracy and risk aversion.
• Chemical Industry Influence:
• Companies producing synthetic foams and retardants have long-standing contracts with firefighting agencies, making it difficult for natural alternatives to break into the market.
• Synthetic products are aggressively marketed for their superior performance, often sidelining eco-friendly solutions despite their benefits.
• Urgency During Catastrophic Fires:
• In emergencies, the priority is saving lives, property, and the environment as quickly as possible. Firefighters often default to solutions that can be deployed immediately and in large volumes, even if they have environmental consequences.
Scaling a Non-Toxic Mix for Catastrophic Fires
To scale and test the proof-of-concept for your proposed solution (e.g., baking soda + citric acid + enhancers), several steps must be taken:
1. Material Supply Chain Optimization
• Partner with suppliers to produce baking soda and citric acid in bulk quantities.
• Identify sustainable sources for thickeners (e.g., xanthan gum or plant-based gels) and surfactants.
• Develop centralized mixing facilities near fire-prone areas to enable rapid deployment.
2. Delivery System Innovation
• Adapt firefighting planes, helicopters, and hoses to mix and spray the solution in real-time, similar to how retardants are deployed.
• Design mobile mixing units that combine the ingredients on-site to ensure freshness and maximum foam output.
3. Testing for Proof of Concept
• Small-Scale Testing: Conduct controlled burns on wood, brush, and other common fire fuels to evaluate suppression effectiveness.
• Large-Scale Simulation: Test in fire-prone environments (e.g., forested areas with high wind) to gauge scalability.
• Metrics to Measure:
• Foam longevity in windy and hot conditions.
• Heat resistance and ability to smother embers.
• Environmental impact assessment of residues.
4. Addressing Challenges
• Foam Durability: Experiment with combinations of thickeners, surfactants, and fine particles to improve adhesion and resistance to wind/heat.
• CO₂ Output: Optimize baking soda and citric acid ratios to maximize gas release while minimizing water requirements.
• Reignition Prevention: Investigate natural additives (e.g., borax, clay, or biochar) to make treated surfaces temporarily fire-resistant.
5. Collaborate with Firefighting Agencies
• Work with local fire departments and researchers to refine the solution and gain acceptance.
• Showcase environmental benefits to encourage adoption in eco-sensitive regions.
Overcoming the Barriers
Proving the viability of a non-toxic solution for large-scale fires would require addressing performance parity with existing systems while highlighting its environmental superiority. The key is showing that a natural mix can perform similarly without contributing to long-term ecological harm.

Would you like detailed guidance on designing a test protocol or further advice on refining the formula?

Refining first please then let's test/profile it

To refine the baking soda and citric acid-based fire suppression solution for enhanced fire-fighting performance while maintaining its non-toxic, eco-friendly properties, we will focus on:
• Improved Foam Stability
• Enhanced Oxygen Blockage
• Added Fire-Resistant Properties
• Scalability
Refined Formula (Per 10 Liters of Solution):
• Water (cold): 9 liters (90%)
• Baking Soda (Sodium Bicarbonate): 600 g (6%)
• Citric Acid: 200 g (2%)
• Natural Thickener:
• Xanthan Gum: 30 g (0.3%) OR
• Agar-Agar: 30 g (0.3%)
• Surfactant (Biodegradable):
• Soap Nut Extract or Castile Soap: 100 mL (1%)
• Fire Retardant Additive (Optional):
• Borax (Sodium Borate): 100 g (1%)
• Smothering Agent (Optional):
• Bentonite Clay or Fine Sand: 200–500 g (2–5%)
Steps to Prepare:
• Prepare the Thickened Base:
• Dissolve the thickener (xanthan gum or agar-agar) in warm water (around 50°C) until fully hydrated.
• Use a blender or whisk for a smooth consistency.
• Mix Baking Soda and Borax:
• In a separate container, mix baking soda and borax (if used) until uniform.
• Prepare the Surfactant Solution:
• Mix the surfactant (e.g., soap nut extract or castile soap) with water. Avoid foaming at this stage.
• Combine Ingredients:
• Add the thickened base to the main water supply.
• Slowly mix in the baking soda and borax.
• Add citric acid last to prevent premature frothing.
• Add the surfactant and optional fine particles (clay or sand) just before use.
Improvements in the Refined Formula:
1. Foam Stability:
• Xanthan gum or agar-agar creates a gel-like structure, preventing foam from breaking down quickly in windy or hot conditions.
• Surfactant reduces surface tension, resulting in smaller, more stable bubbles.
2. Smothering Capability:
• Bentonite clay or fine sand enhances the ability to block oxygen flow, particularly for embers or smoldering areas.
3. Fire Resistance:
• Borax increases the flame-retardant properties, making surfaces less flammable and reducing the likelihood of reignition.
4. Controlled Reaction:
• Mixing citric acid last ensures the frothing reaction happens at the point of application, maximizing CO₂ output during use.
5. Environmentally Safe:
• All ingredients are biodegradable and non-toxic, with minimal environmental impact.
Key Properties to Profile in Testing:
• Foam Longevity:
• Measure how long the foam stays intact under windy and hot conditions.
• CO₂ Output:
• Test the amount and speed of CO₂ generation to ensure effective oxygen displacement.
• Heat Resistance:
• Assess the foam's ability to remain stable when exposed to radiant heat.
• Adherence:
• Test how well the foam clings to vertical and uneven surfaces.
• Environmental Impact:
• Verify the biodegradability and residue breakdown in soil and water.
Next Steps for Testing:
• Create a small prototype batch of the solution using the refined formula.
• Perform controlled burn tests on different materials (wood, vegetation, etc.) to evaluate suppression effectiveness.
• Measure the above properties and refine further if needed.
•
Would you like a detailed test protocol or assistance with preparing the prototype batch?

I thought of sand but wouldn't it be problematic to pump ?

Yes, incorporating sand into a firefighting solution could indeed create significant challenges for pumping and delivery systems. Sand, being abrasive and heavy, can cause the following issues:
Challenges with Pumping Sand in Firefighting Systems:
• Abrasion of Equipment:
• Sand is highly abrasive and can damage pumps, nozzles, and hose linings, reducing their lifespan and increasing maintenance costs.
• Clogging:
• Fine sand particles can accumulate and clog delivery systems, particularly in standard firefighting hoses and pumps, which aren't designed for particulate-laden fluids.
• Weight and Flow Issues:
• Sand significantly increases the weight and viscosity of the mixture, requiring stronger pumps and higher energy to maintain flow.
• Uneven suspension of sand in the solution can cause uneven flow rates and inconsistent application.
• Settling:
• Sand tends to settle at the bottom of the tank or mixing system when not continuously agitated, causing blockages or incomplete deployment.
Alternative Smothering Agents:
If sand is problematic to pump, consider these non-abrasive alternatives:
• Bentonite Clay (Powdered):
• Bentonite is fine and lightweight compared to sand. It suspends more easily in water, creating a smoother flow through pumps.
• It enhances oxygen blockage and adds fire resistance without damaging equipment.
• Vermiculite:
• Vermiculite is a lightweight, non-abrasive mineral that expands under heat, smothering flames effectively. It’s pumpable in slurry form.
• Biochar or Pulverized Charcoal:
• Biochar is lightweight and eco-friendly, with excellent smothering and insulating properties. It’s easier to pump than sand.
• Fine Silica Gel Beads:
• Silica gel in powdered or fine bead form can provide a similar smothering effect without the abrasiveness of sand.
If Sand Must Be Used:
To minimize problems while still using sand as part of the mix:
• Pre-Mix Agitation: Continuously agitate the sand-water mixture to prevent settling.
• Specialized Pumps: Use slurry pumps designed for handling abrasive materials (e.g., centrifugal pumps with hardened materials).
• Low Sand Ratios: Use only a small percentage of sand (e.g., 1–3%) to reduce wear on equipment.
• Coarse Sand: Coarser sand particles are less likely to clog systems compared to fine sand, though they may be less effective for smothering.
Recommendation:
For large-scale firefighting, it's better to avoid sand entirely and use fine clay-based materials like bentonite or vermiculite. These alternatives are non-toxic, pump-friendly, and provide comparable smothering effects without the logistical headaches of sand.
Would you like help refining the formula further based on one of these alternatives or guidance on testing specific materials?

I know this sounds totally counterintuitive but what impact would adding a small amount of an accelerant like oil to the mix so it's more like soap ?

Is that relatively non-toxic ?

Adding a small amount of oil to the mix could have some surprising and potentially useful effects, but it needs careful consideration. Oils could enhance certain properties, but they also introduce risks, particularly in a fire suppression context. Let’s break it down:
How Adding Oil Affects the Mix:
• Improves Foam Consistency (Soap-Like Properties):
• Mechanism: Oils (especially plant-based ones) can act as surfactants or stabilizers, improving foam consistency and making it cling to surfaces better.
• Result: The solution may form a thicker, longer-lasting foam, which could enhance the smothering effect.
• Potential to Insulate Flames:
• Oil can create a thin film on burning surfaces, slowing oxygen diffusion and slightly cooling the surface due to reduced contact with air.
• Risk of Fueling the Fire:
• Oils are flammable. Even in small quantities, they could exacerbate the fire if the temperature is high enough to ignite them.
• In windy conditions, oil could spread and ignite secondary fires.
• Environmental Considerations:
• Plant-Based Oils: Non-toxic and biodegradable (e.g., coconut oil, olive oil). These are safer but still pose risks if released into waterways or ecosystems.
• Mineral Oils: While less biodegradable, they are also relatively non-toxic in small amounts but persist in the environment longer.
Is It Relatively Non-Toxic?
• Plant-Based Oils: Yes, they are relatively non-toxic to humans and the environment. Examples:
• Coconut oil: High stability and biodegradable.
• Vegetable oil: Readily available, but slightly less stable at high heat.
• Synthetic or Mineral Oils: Generally low toxicity but less eco-friendly. Not ideal for use in sensitive ecosystems.
Challenges of Adding Oil:
• Fire Risk:
• While oil may act as a foam enhancer, the risk of it igniting is a significant concern, especially in catastrophic fires with high temperatures and open flames.
• Pumping Issues:
• Oil can separate from the water-based mix, requiring continuous mixing.
• It may clog standard firefighting pumps unless well-emulsified.
• Environmental Impact:
• Even biodegradable oils can harm aquatic ecosystems if they runoff into waterways, creating oxygen-deprived zones.
How to Safely Incorporate Oil (If Desired):
• Use Emulsifiers:
• Combine oil with natural or non-toxic emulsifiers (e.g., lecithin or glycerin) to create a stable emulsion that integrates well with water.
• Ratio: Start with 1–2% oil by volume.
• Choose the Right Oil:
• Coconut oil: High heat tolerance and naturally antimicrobial.
• Castor oil: Thick, viscous, and creates a soap-like texture.
• Jojoba oil: Lightweight and stable but more expensive.
• Test for Fire Resistance:
• Conduct small-scale testing to ensure the oil doesn’t ignite or increase flammability under intense heat.
An Example of a Modified Formula:
For 10 liters of solution:
• Water (cold): 9 liters
• Baking soda: 600 g (6%)
• Citric acid: 200 g (2%)
• Xanthan gum or agar-agar: 30 g (0.3%)
• Surfactant (biodegradable): 100 mL (1%) castile soap or soap nut extract.
• Plant-Based Oil (e.g., coconut oil): 100 mL (1%)
• Emulsifier (e.g., lecithin): 20 g (0.2%)
Mix the oil and emulsifier first, then add to the water-based solution. Stir continuously or use a mechanical mixer to prevent separation.
Conclusion:
Adding a small amount of oil can enhance foam consistency and smothering properties, making it more soap-like and adhesive. However, the risk of igniting the oil under high temperatures makes it counterproductive in catastrophic fires. If tested, it should only be done in low-risk, controlled environments with plant-based oils and emulsifiers for safety and environmental protection.
Would you like help modeling or testing this concept further? Or would you prefer focusing on alternatives to oil for better foam-like properties?

Can we explore a more "soapy" model using different types of soapy water instead of tap water or perhaps adding or using biodegradable commercial detergents in the mix ?

Absolutely, a more "soapy" model could significantly enhance the foam stability, coverage, and smothering capabilities of your fire suppression mix. By incorporating soapy water or biodegradable commercial detergents, you can achieve a more effective and eco-friendly firefighting solution. Let's explore how to optimize this approach.
Why Use Soapy Water or Biodegradable Detergents?
• Improved Foam Stability:
• Soapy water reduces the surface tension of the liquid, allowing the foam to form smaller, more stable bubbles.
• This creates a denser and more effective foam blanket.
• Enhanced Smothering:
• A soap-based solution clings better to vertical or uneven surfaces, improving coverage in windy conditions.
• Environmentally Friendly Options:
• Biodegradable detergents ensure the mix remains safe for the environment, breaking down naturally without harming aquatic life or soil.
• Scalability and Availability:
• Commercial biodegradable detergents are widely available and easy to source in large quantities.
Types of Soapy Water or Detergents to Consider:
• Homemade Soapy Water:
• Use castile soap (plant-based and biodegradable) mixed with warm water.
• Ratio: 100 mL of castile soap per liter of water for a strong solution.
• Biodegradable Commercial Detergents:
• Examples:
• Ecover, Seventh Generation, or similar eco-friendly dishwashing liquids.
• Ensure the detergent is labeled biodegradable and free from harmful chemicals like phosphates, sulfates, or synthetic fragrances.
• Plant-Based Surfactants:
• Use mild surfactants like decyl glucoside, coco-glucoside, or lauryl glucoside—commonly used in eco-friendly cleaning products.
• Natural Soap Nut Extract (Reetha):
• Soap nuts are naturally occurring surfactants, biodegradable, and gentle on the environment.
• To use: Boil 100 g of soap nuts in 2 liters of water, strain, and add the extract to the mix.
Refined Formula Using Biodegradable Detergents (Per 10 Liters of Solution):
• Water (preferably warm): 8 liters (80%)
• Biodegradable detergent or soap solution: 1 liter (10%)
• Example: Castile soap, soap nut extract, or eco-friendly detergent.
• Baking Soda: 500 g (5%)
• Citric Acid: 200 g (2%)
• Thickener (optional):
• Xanthan gum or agar-agar: 30 g (0.3%) for a thicker foam.
• Optional Additives for Fire Retardancy:
• Borax (sodium borate): 100 g (1%)
• Bentonite clay or biochar (smothering agent): 200–500 g (2–5%)
Key Benefits of this Formula:
• Improved Foam Adherence: The soapy solution ensures the foam sticks to surfaces, even under windy conditions.
• Longer Foam Life: Biodegradable detergents stabilize the foam, preventing it from breaking down quickly.
• Smothering Power: Baking soda and citric acid generate CO₂, while the foam blocks oxygen effectively.
• Non-Toxic and Eco-Friendly: The mix remains safe for humans, animals, and the environment.
Testing the Soapy Model:
• Small-Scale Burn Tests:
• Apply the solution to wood or brush fires to test foam coverage, stability, and suppression capability.
• Wind and Heat Resistance:
• Test the foam’s adherence and durability in simulated windy and high-temperature conditions.
• Environmental Impact:
• Analyze residue breakdown in soil and water to confirm it is biodegradable and harmless.
Considerations:
• Foam Application: Use foam-generating nozzles or sprayers for optimal deployment.
• Mixing Requirements: Agitate the mix continuously to prevent separation of baking soda and detergent.
• Water Source: Warm water enhances detergent solubility and foam production.

Would you like assistance in planning the testing process or guidance on sourcing specific biodegradable detergents and materials ?

Let's plan the testing since we know that the bulk of the ingredients are avaikable in commercial quantities

Testing Plan for the Soapy Fire Suppression Solution
The goal of testing is to assess the performance, scalability, and environmental safety of the solution in conditions that simulate real-world fire suppression scenarios. Below is a detailed plan:
1. Objectives
• Evaluate the effectiveness of the solution in suppressing fires.
• Test foam stability, adherence, and longevity under varying conditions (wind, heat, and surfaces).
• Assess scalability and practicality for large-scale deployment.
• Ensure environmental safety and biodegradability of residues.
2. Materials Required
Ingredients:
• Water (warm): Easily sourced.
• Biodegradable detergent: Castile soap or commercial eco-friendly detergent like Ecover, Seventh Generation, etc.
• Baking soda: Commercial-grade sodium bicarbonate.
• Citric acid: Industrial-grade, food-safe citric acid.
• Optional additives:
• Borax (sodium borate): For fire retardancy.
• Bentonite clay or biochar: For enhanced smothering.
Equipment:
• Fire source: Small-scale burn setups (e.g., wood piles, brush, or test panels of combustible materials like untreated wood).
• Mixing tools: Large buckets or industrial mixers.
• Delivery system: Foam sprayers, handheld fire extinguishers, or garden sprayers for small-scale testing.
• Environmental monitoring tools: pH meters, soil test kits, and water quality test kits for residue analysis.
• Safety gear: Fireproof gloves, goggles, fire-resistant clothing.
3. Testing Stages
Stage 1: Small-Scale Laboratory Testing
• Setup:
• Use controlled burn areas (e.g., fireproof trays or metal pans) with wood, paper, or vegetation as the fuel source.
• Measure foam coverage and suppression time.
• Metrics:
• Foam adherence to horizontal and vertical surfaces.
• Time required to extinguish flames.
• Amount of solution needed to suppress a given fire size.
• Conditions:
• No wind.
• No external heat sources beyond the fire.
Stage 2: Environmental Simulation Testing
• Wind Testing:
• Use a fan to simulate wind conditions and test foam stability and effectiveness.
• Measure foam's ability to adhere and suppress flames under varying wind speeds (e.g., 10–30 km/h).
• Heat Resistance Testing:
• Simulate high heat using larger, more intense fires or radiant heat lamps.
• Observe how the foam reacts to prolonged exposure to high temperatures.
Stage 3: Outdoor Field Testing
• Setup:
• Use larger burn piles (e.g., brush, logs, or untreated wood) in open outdoor spaces.
• Test the solution's ability to suppress fires in uncontrolled environments.
• Metrics:
• Effectiveness in extinguishing larger fires.
• Foam longevity on uneven or vertical surfaces.
• Wind and heat resistance in a natural environment.
• Scaling:
• Test the feasibility of using larger delivery systems, such as backpack sprayers, foam generators, or portable firefighting units.
Stage 4: Environmental Impact Testing
• Residue Testing:
• Collect soil and water samples from areas treated with the solution.
• Test for pH changes, toxicity, and biodegradability using environmental test kits.
• Biodegradability Monitoring:
• Observe how residues break down over a period of days or weeks.
4. Testing Metrics and Criteria for Success
5. Safety Considerations
• Perform all fire tests in designated, controlled burn areas (e.g., fire training grounds).
• Have fire extinguishers and a water source on-site as a backup.
• Wear protective gear to avoid injury during testing.
6. Scaling Up for Large-Scale Testing
Once small-scale and environmental tests confirm the formula's viability:
• Partner with firefighting organizations or research institutions for large-scale field trials.
• Explore deployment through existing firefighting equipment (e.g., trucks, aerial systems).
7. Reporting and Refinement
• Record all observations (e.g., suppression times, foam behavior, environmental impact).
• Refine the formula based on test results (e.g., adjusting detergent concentration, adding more stabilizers).
• Iterate testing as needed.

Would you like me to help with the design of specific testing setups (e.g., wind and heat simulation) or detailed test recording templates?

Not right now but I'm sure that the State of California would be interested in trialing it IRL.

I'll pass on your optimum formulation for large scale fires but in a condensed form so that it fits on a single A4 sheet of paper in tabloid-style font