I was wrong, ZK was right...

[skramamme]

I actually really hate Kei$ha, don't see where her talent is, and think her recent lawsuits against her former producer is a fucking farce.



MMMMmmmmmmm YUMMMMMMY!!!!!!

Wow, you're a flat out cunt arntcha?!

Did it ever occur to you that posting that totally unnecessary photo on a substance abuse support board might be distressing to those of us whose drug use is heavily tied up with eating disorders and BDD?

I am a mum- I'm 44 fucking years old.

I just had 3 major surgries between 2012-14 and gained 12 fucking kilos and I want to take a pair of garden shears and cut off my fat filled breasts- that's how fucking disgusted I am with myself and I try every fucking day to try and overcome that sort of shitty self talk and here you come and totally validate all that negative shit I tell myself.

The sort of stuff I try to convince myself that other people wouldn't really judge me by.

I haven't gone outside for 2 summers, I won't take my daughter to the beach anymore for fear of being mocked. And your shitty body policing is exactly why.


So thanks for just proving all the horrible,negative shit I was hoping to believe the rest of the world wouldn't think about me

You dont bother posting the rest of what he said? Really?

Just pick and choose what you wanted to read there, huh? 44yo mother is different then a 28yo with no children. HE was making a point about image and the scene she hangs out with, and the lawsuit...

Which totally went over your incredibly sensitive head.

No, I got the rest of the post- I am well aware of the double standards employed by the music indi=ustry and how Kei$ha made money off of the pop star image.
That still doesn't justify body shaming an almost 30 year old woman with the words MMMm yummmmmmy! as if her body is that fucking grotesque.
It's body shaming, pure and simple.

And that shit, that constant scrutiny and criticism of what a woman should look like to be acceptable in a bikini rebounds onto the rest of us, especially those of us who have poly-addictions and intertwined self image issues... what, you think I self medicate because I am comfortable in my body and have great self esteem? And you're calling me obtuse?!
haha

"weird mum body" yup, that's totally what the women on this board, many of whom are mums, need to hear.

Oh, and FTR I worked for 12 years as a stripper, well into my mid 30's (even worked a few shifts when I was 39) and was pegged as much younger due to a combination of being thin from pole dancing, a background in weight lifting and my drug use.
So I have always had a conventionally "good" body but it never stopped the shitty self talk, it certainly didn't stop the BDD or anorexia I developed in my late 30's and just because I am 44 doesn't mean I should automatically be fat or out of shape.
I was doing crossfit 4 times a week before my surgery and could probably deadlift more than you.

So no, I didn't miss what he was saying- I'm not a fucking moron- but posting body pics to mock a woman's body shape is not ok, nor is it necessary to make the point he was making, and if you think it is then that's actually pretty sad.
Didn't you say you have 3 daughters? Think about the constant pressure they are under and will be under their entire lives about conforming to a very narrow ideal of physical attractiveness and tell me you're legitimately ok with that sort of rubbish.

And yes, there was also a heap of victim blaming going on. Lots of people stay close to their abusers for all sorts of reasons, and that whole comment was just another ugly example of why most victims remain silent, because the scrutiny is just too much to bear.
Plus the whole fminazi shit... I mean really, ony raving feminists can point out the unnecessary criticism of another person's body now? Good to know, I guess I'll have to sign up then.

But hey, thanks for dismissing my legitimate and quite pointed criticisms (which is why I didn't address the whole pop star making machanics behind Kei$ha's rise to fame) as being the hysterical rantings of an oversensitive idiot.

Good luck to you.

[_Enduser]

Okay wow

You have to understand that everyone is in this thread is defending Kei$ha from a position and discourse she has denied and resisted against being attributed to her (as an artist and a public figure).

The criteria I used above for judging her are very callous, superficial, and derogatory, but, they pertain to the industry she has decided to work in and thus, without any statements from her decrying working conditions, become the interests she then decided to advance throughout her career.  She is very much so a cog in the pop music misogyny complex as is the most "bitches and hoes pimpin' and shit" rapper.  I'm having a hard time remembering when she, as an artist, took a stand against what is essentially wrong with pop music today, the industry that surrounds it,  and how it's killing the music.

Instead, she fucking uses photography, spanx, and anorexia to distort/hide her true body image.  Does she use her public voice to address how the rules of the game she's playing are ridiculous and unfair?  Nope.  I can't remember a single time.   So in essence what you are all saying is that IT IS ME WHO IS TEARING PEOPLE DOWN, when you are defending someone who, in this thread, acts to advance the very things I'm being accused of doing?

Yeah hokay.

She doesn't need to come out in a fucking leotard and shit, hyping sex appeal, jumping around to make good music.  Or does she?  Isn't this the problem?  That more people care about what she looks like than whatever music she's making?  I wouldn't know, because Keisha herself has never created this critical distinction, when doing so, as a public figure, would speak so much louder than most other women doing so. 

but posting body pics to mock a woman's body shape is not ok, nor is it necessary to make the point he was making, and if you think it is then that's actually pretty sad.

Men's bodies in tabloids are as equally speculated and mocked.  And if someone didn't seek public notoriety for their image, then I would agree that my action (posting up body pics) would have not been okay at all.  But, I mean, come on, you're intellectualizing this situation way more than it needs to be.  She has created herself a public figure, and these are the implications of that.  Being getting your pics posted and scrutinized in a message board I guess.

My point with posting these pics of her is to throw into account any credibility she might have when people try and use her to attribute a feminist dialectic to this situation.  If you look back at her videos and other media, she actually goes to great lengths to hide her body, and to anyone's knowledge never made any denunciations of the industry which forces her to do this.  Instead she is actually policing herself.   

So, Skramm, when you accuse me of being party to "Body Policing", it hurts me because its the opposite of the kind of person I am and, in reality Keisha is going to great lengths to police her own body.

My thoughts on "Mum bods":

I have what this society would consider "strange" sexual proclivities.  In my mind, sex isn't 100% visual so I really need to be digging someone's worldview to engage in this ultimate act of communication.  So obviously, I would then find maturity, independence, steadfastness etc. as favorable qualities, and likewise physical characteristics hinting at these attributes. 
IDK Skramm I'm sorry about your beach shit.  My mom is a big woman.  And she hated going to the beach and from a young age i understood the reason why was because she was ashamed of her body.

So when I started wearing ridiculous shit when I was around 13-14 (lipstick makeup and shit but not a mall goth look) my mom sat me down and said

"Why do you wear this shit?  You think it looks good? Then I should wear crop tops and short shorts (obvious reference to her weight) because I think it looks good, and ultimately your contribution to society is worth more than how you look"
-my response to her

 My mother had a lot of FAR more important roles in society than "talking head", no matter what she looks like or, another mother (or father) looks like, is irrelevant.  Whether or not they are providing a decent life for their children is a far more important and serious undertaking than merely "looking good" to "lip-synch on stage in a leotard and jump around".  If society places more emphasis on the importance of "pop stars" vs. parents everywhere, this is not MY invention and it is not how I feel about things.  But, again, Keisha, throughout her career, has (inadvertently at best) been a steadfast spokesperson for the fucked up dynamic I described above, so I won't spare her a diatribe framed within her own discourse.

-So I'm aware of the problem of body shaming, and I'm hyper aware because I used to be really over weight.  But an artist like Keisha, by artist like Keisha I mean the millions of talentless hacks waiting to stand in line and take her place, makes a career out of NOT ADDRESSING these issues. 

[JuStOnEmOrE? (OP)]

Victim blaming.. and the males that are vitims of false accusations that ruin their lives? Where is the sympathy for them exactly?

When do they get their day?

Why are only women victims? Seems a little, slanted, no?

[puppy]

Victim blaming.. and the males that are vitims of false accusations that ruin their lives? Where is the sympathy for them exactly?

When do they get their day?

Why are only women victims? Seems a little, slanted, no?

Women aren't the only victims...silly comment...but when everyone who walks this earth are equals...then this question might have merit...male privilege an all...but I have the feeling since you asked this question to begin with you wont get that...and I'm sure a lot of other men won't either...judging from the two threads on "Women only" and "men only" boards...

.... men are not victimized as much as women are....not saying they're not or it doesn't happen...not as often...is my short answer..

[JuStOnEmOrE? (OP)]

False. Not as many males report it, and are victimized in different ways, some that are completely legal and upheld by the system.

I get male privilege. Maybe you can tell me where the hell to find some of that, and wht the hell it has to do with this.

[St. Theresa]

Victim blaming.. and the males that are vitims of false accusations that ruin their lives? Where is the sympathy for them exactly?

When do they get their day?

Why are only women victims? Seems a little, slanted, no?

Anyone else feel like all this has got way stupid ?

I realize op has been fucked over in life by women, and that sucks but not all women are evil hags.

Enduser bassnbreaks I love Ya and as much as I don't think your a douche it's really insensitive especially when I don't think keisha looks bad! Jesus man, your defending a dick statement. And then made it somehow society and hollywoods fault. Come on.

[JuStOnEmOrE? (OP)]

I'm so glad that you decided to enlighten us on how stupid this was, and throw in your two cents on it, since its "got way stupid"...

And I suppose you are one of those that has been touched by the hand of God, Herself, and has thus been granted knowledge of what has happened to EVERYBODY, including me... Possibly made different from all other females, and thus just must strut with your feathers splayed for the world to see.

I never once said all women were evil hags. So dont put words in my mouth.

I said that men are victimized just as much, often in completely legal ways.

I do love though how its insensitive ESPECIALLY because its differs from your opinion.

[St. Theresa]

I'm so glad that you decided to enlighten us on how stupid this was, and throw in your two cents on it, since its "got way stupid"...

And I suppose you are one of those that has been touched by the hand of God, Herself, and has thus been granted knowledge of what has happened to EVERYBODY, including me... Possibly made different from all other females, and thus just must strut with your feathers splayed for the world to see.

I never once said all women were evil hags. So dont put words in my mouth.

I said that men are victimized just as much, often in completely legal ways.

I do love though how its insensitive ESPECIALLY because its differs from your opinion.

Dude seriously I don't know what you're problem is...I never said you called women evil hags. And this is getting stupid. If you think any of this is helping anyone here including you,than good luck man.

No God didn't touch me. I just read your posts that you put out there.

[Z]

There is so much male-female conflict here lately, and it seems totally unnecessary.  Just because the industry she is involved in is critical of women doesn't mean you get to be enduser.  From what you said after, I would expect you to understand that.

Rape is complicated.  Date rape even more so, because it so often involves those we know.  It shouldn't be, but the world doesn't live in the same idealized sections that we would like it to. I believe the reason for civil suits is a lower burden of evidence.  Not many prosecutors would touch an 8 year old date rape case based on he said she said.

I think she looks pretty good honestly.  Those pics are clearly unflattering pictures of her relaxed with friends.  We can't all be sex gods 24/7 unfortunately, although I guess you are man.

Women have bodies like that.  If you think that she is ugly wait until you are older.  Your pretty girlfriend will look much worse at some point.  I'm sure of it.

[skramamme]

There is so much male-female conflict here lately, and it seems totally unnecessary.  Just because the industry she is involved in is critical of women doesn't mean you get to be enduser.  From what you said after, I would expect you to understand that.

Rape is complicated.  Date rape even more so, because it so often involves those we know.  It shouldn't be, but the world doesn't live in the same idealized sections that we would like it to. I believe the reason for civil suits is a lower burden of evidence.  Not many prosecutors would touch an 8 year old date rape case based on he said she said.

I think she looks pretty good honestly.  Those pics are clearly unflattering pictures of her relaxed with friends.  We can't all be sex gods 24/7 unfortunately, although I guess you are man.

Women have bodies like that.  If you think that she is ugly wait until you are older.  Your pretty girlfriend will look much worse at some point.  I'm sure of it.

Thank you Z.
It's one thing to be critical (deservedly so) of the image pop stars in general put out into our society and another thing all together to use some pictures of a woman involved in pop music to mock her body (especially considering that she isn't posed etc- it is unflattering).

And when people say "don't take it personally" how else does someone take it? That's saying my body is repulsive.
I don't come to this board for shit like that, just as I wouldn't expect a member to say "all junkies are dirty, thieving bastards".

I get enough of both types of shit everywhere else on the internet thanks

[Pullmyhair.]

I'm so glad that you decided to enlighten us on how stupid this was, and throw in your two cents on it, since its "got way stupid"...

And I suppose you are one of those that has been touched by the hand of God, Herself, and has thus been granted knowledge of what has happened to EVERYBODY, including me... Possibly made different from all other females, and thus just must strut with your feathers splayed for the world to see.

I never once said all women were evil hags. So dont put words in my mouth.

I said that men are victimized just as much, often in completely legal ways.

I do love though how its insensitive ESPECIALLY because its differs from your opinion.

Adult men are not sexually assaulted at anywhere near the rate adult women are. Do men get sexually assaulted? Yes. Is it under-reported? Yes. But it's still nowhere near the rate at which women are sexually assaulted (not that it's a competition). But blathering on about how men are abused and false rape allegations, which are statistically rare, both misses the point and trivializes the experience of actual victims. Also, your comment is insensitive because it's insensitive, not because it differs from someone else's opinion.

[puppy]

I'm so glad that you decided to enlighten us on how stupid this was, and throw in your two cents on it, since its "got way stupid"...

And I suppose you are one of those that has been touched by the hand of God, Herself, and has thus been granted knowledge of what has happened to EVERYBODY, including me... Possibly made different from all other females, and thus just must strut with your feathers splayed for the world to see.

I never once said all women were evil hags. So dont put words in my mouth.

I said that men are victimized just as much, often in completely legal ways.

I do love though how its insensitive ESPECIALLY because its differs from your opinion.

Adult men are not sexually assaulted at anywhere near the rate adult women are. Do men get sexually assaulted? Yes. Is it under-reported? Yes. But it's still nowhere near the rate at which women are sexually assaulted (not that it's a competition). But blathering on about how men are abused and false rape allegations, which are statistically rare, both misses the point and trivializes the experience of actual victims. Also, your comment is insensitive because it's insensitive, not because it differs from someone else's opinion.

Thank You Pull...you said it much better than me...

[Dhedmo]

There is so much male-female conflict here lately, and it seems totally unnecessary.  Just because the industry she is involved in is critical of women doesn't mean you get to be enduser.  From what you said after, I would expect you to understand that.

Rape is complicated.  Date rape even more so, because it so often involves those we know.  It shouldn't be, but the world doesn't live in the same idealized sections that we would like it to. I believe the reason for civil suits is a lower burden of evidence.  Not many prosecutors would touch an 8 year old date rape case based on he said she said.

I think she looks pretty good honestly.  Those pics are clearly unflattering pictures of her relaxed with friends.  We can't all be sex gods 24/7 unfortunately, although I guess you are man.

Women have bodies like that.  If you think that she is ugly wait until you are older.  Your pretty girlfriend will look much worse at some point.  I'm sure of it.

^This. (Also, there may be a difference between civil & criminal cases w/r/t statue of limitations, depending on offense & state. Also, a criminal case punishes, but does not (or at least not necessarily) compensate the victim. In a civil case, compensation for a victim can also certainly be punishment.

Thank you Z.
It's one thing to be critical (deservedly so) of the image pop stars in general put out into our society and another thing all together to use some pictures of a woman involved in pop music to mock her body (especially considering that she isn't posed etc- it is unflattering).

And when people say "don't take it personally" how else does someone take it? That's saying my body is repulsive.
I don't come to this board for shit like that, just as I wouldn't expect a member to say "all junkies are dirty, thieving bastards".

I get enough of both types of shit everywhere else on the internet thanks

^This.

Adult men are not sexually assaulted at anywhere near the rate adult women are. Do men get sexually assaulted? Yes. Is it under-reported? Yes. But it's still nowhere near the rate at which women are sexually assaulted (not that it's a competition). But blathering on about how men are abused and false rape allegations, which are statistically rare, both misses the point and trivializes the experience of actual victims. Also, your comment is insensitive because it's insensitive, not because it differs from someone else's opinion.

^This.

Anyone else feel like all this has got way stupid ?

^And this. Littlebit. Cmon fellas.
Really?

[_Enduser]

this has gone nutty. 

I don't think men are victimized nearly as much as women are, either in severity of action or frequency of action and this is by a long shot.

I have met FAR MORE women who have been raped vs. men who have been "taken to the cleaners" because of costly divorce.

Doesn't it seem wrong that this heinous violent crime is the first example of a female being victimized which comes to mind in context of what men are up against when it comes to being "victimized?"  The risk of being raped in prison or some shit is overall still pretty low so that's more an outlier. 

This thread has gotten pretty dumb I agree, I just wanted to clarify that women are victimized and fucked with loads more than men and statistics are definitive on this it's a dun deal

and that if you ladies are out there and wanting to feel better bout' ya bodz to come holla at ya boi throug dat PM

JK JK JK JK JK JK