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Core Topics => Drugs => GABAergics => Topic started by: Jega on September 25, 2015, 08:16:35 AM
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This is my first table so you'll have to forgive the spacing. I don't have it all figured out yet. But this is my first attempt. I saw some attempts at this googling though boolight and frankly it was just wrong. So I've taken some time for extra accuracy. If there are any mistakes please point them out. I've included some common ones, some uncommon ones, and some RC's floating around right now.
| Diazepam | Valium | 10mg |
| Alprazolam | Xanax | 0.5mg |
| Bromazepam | Lexotan | 5-6mg |
| Chlordiazepoxide | Librium | 25mg |
| Clobazam | Frisium | 25mg |
| Clonazepam | Klonopin | 0.5mg |
| Clonazolam | RC | 0.25-0.5mg |
| Diclazepam | RC | 1-2mg |
| Etizolam | RC | 1mg |
| Estazolam | ProSom | 1-2mg |
| Flunitrazepam | Rohypnol | 1mg |
| Flubromazolam | RC | 0.15-0.25mg |
| Lorazepam | Ativan | 1mg |
| Lormetazepam | Noctamid | 1-2mg |
| Midazolam | Versed | 5-8mg(Oral)1mg IV |
| Nitrazepam | Mogadon | 10mg |
| Nordazepam | RC/Nordaz | 10mg |
| Oxazepam | Serax | 20mg |
| Temazepam | Restoril | 20mg |
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| Triazolam | Halcion | 0.5mg |
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Great idea mate.....looks about right to me apart from Triazalam(s.p.)....I feel it should be 0.125 or 0.25 mg equiv to 10mg diaz. 0.5mg is a bit high i.m.o. What do you think?
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I agree, great idea
Now only if you had some references other than your own bioassays
I'm not suggesting any of what you posted is wrong
it's just shitty there isnt any way to be sure with RCs
Since you spent the time to be extra careful
posting sources for the pharmaceutical/actually legal b-zos would be appreciated
this is basically like giving dosing advice,
so it would go a long way in terms of harm reduction and education
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I agree, great idea
Now only if you had some references other than your own bioassays
I'm not suggesting any of what you posted is wrong
it's just shitty there isnt any way to be sure with RCs
Since you spent the time to be extra careful
posting sources for the pharmaceutical/actually legal b-zos would be appreciated
this is basically like giving dosing advice,
so it would go a long way in terms of harm reduction and education
Good point. I'll work on references other then myself for some of them. For some of the RC's if you try and find references you end up at bloolight pulling your hair out.
And I think because 0.25 of Triazolam hits so hard and so fast it feels stronger then it really is. But benzos effect everyone differently. For example: IN GENERAL women will have a higher blood concentration then men for Benzodiazepines.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1046/j.1365-2125.2002.t01-10-01714.x/pdf <<Good Read
http://www.dr-bob.org/tips/bzd.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_benzodiazepines
http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/2172250-overview
You'll notice some of the tables are slightly different. I suppose you just have to make a judgement call based on the best available evidence on what the conversions are. And I agree it's a shame we don't have solid data for RC's.
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Is this like based on a combination of relative receptor binding affinities and subjective effects experienced by test subjects? Or just on binding affinities? Because that's really all you can go on if you want to be scientific about it.
But subjective effects from different benzos can and do vary widely. It's so strange.
To Wit: my go-to dose of temazepam would be 60 mg, which will give me much more euphoria than 30mg of valium, the supposedly equipotent dose. Don't get me wrong 30mg of Valium might put me right to sleep, though.
Temaz is so good, but so relatively weak compared with other benzos. 60mg of flubromazolam coo permanilly knock a ni**a out da game, slim.
And Xanax for me is like >meh<. Just knocks me out, and Ativan is not that great either.
Although no benzo is completely worthless, especially if you're using any sort of stimulant.
I'd be hard pressed to find something better than Librium for coming down off an amp session (and getting some blessed sleep). But Librium is almost completely devoid of any euphoric effects, in my experience.
Sniffing triazolam is worth a try if you do like 0.5mg in one go, one tablet up each side. Did that a couple times, friends.
But sniffin sonatas be da absaloot 'bess. Sheeeeee, juss like too peels a dat shit gone' make you feel like a rocka-ship bout to blasss off in yo' cranium.
Kind of like a hit of rock, almost.
Hey Jega, you ever heard about any RC Z-drugs in the pipeline?
There was one that a company was going to market but it didn't get final FDA approval, apparently, from reading the Wiki article on it, because the manufacturer didn't want to go through with the safety and efficacy studies requested by that agency. This was after some clinical trials had already been conducted. Was called indiplon.
Would love to try me some.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indiplon
And adiplon looks like it would be fun too:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adipiplon
These ones break the rule by not beginning with the letter "Z" though. That kinda sucks, don't you think?
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Another factor to consider in equivalency is cross-tolerance
without a reliable way to figure that , a truly equivalent dose is hard to figure
fortunately the therapeutic index on MOST (not all) benzos is pretty high
I think maybe you should edit the list so there are asterisks for more potent/dangerous benzos
and maybe notation for ones that induce extreme amnesia/black outs
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I can't edit the origional table since I don't have mod powers but i'll work on a new table this afternoon.
I had to go to the simple machines forum forum (not a typo) to learn just to make it. I don't know how to add a 4th or 5th column but if I can I will. I'd like to add half lives too.
Thank you for all the feedback, if i'm going to make this better it really helps.
@zoops, only briefly have i seen the Z drugs in the pipeline but Indiplon looks damn interesting!
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I assume these are oral dosages? The only one specified is the versed.
I went through oodles of oxazepam from a cancer patient who didn't like her meds many years ago. Never seen it since. Very sedating with a heavy euphoria. I loved those.
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Yes these are all oral dosages unless specified.
oxazepam is another great one you just don't see in the US. With the exception of Triazolam, Europe/Canada have better benzos.
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I know it's not formatted into the table but frankly the table is hard to work with when you have a lot of data points and I just want some feedback.
Diazepam Valium 10mg 30 - 200hr **
Alprazolam Xanax 0.5mg 9 – 20hr
Bromazepam Lexotan 5-6mg 8 – 30hr
Chlordiazepoxide Librium 25mg 24 – 100hr
Clobazam Frisium 25mg 12-18 hr
Clonazepam Klonopin 0.5mg 19 – 60hr
Clonazolam RC 0.25-0.5mg 6 - 8 hr??
Diclazapam RC 1-2mg 6 - 12 hr? **
Etizolam RC 1mg 3.5-6hr (Metabolites can take up to 8 )
Estazolam ProSom 1-2mg 10-24 hr
Flurazepam Dalmane 30mg 40 - 250hr **
Flunitrazepam Rohypnol 1mg 18–26hr
Flubromazolam RC 0.15-0.25mg 12 - 18 hr??
Lorazepam Ativan 1mg 8 - 20hr
Lormetazepam Noctamid 1-2mg 10–12 hr
Midazolam Versed 5-8mg(Oral)1mg IV 2 to 6 hr
Nitrazepam Mogadon 10mg 15 - 48hr
Nordazepam RC/Nordaz 10mg 36-200hr??
Oxazepam Serax 20mg 3 - 25hr
Temazepam Restoril 20mg 3 - 25hr
Triazolam Halcion 0.5mg 1.5 - 5hr
**:Active Metabolites
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I agree that this helps in relative potency but it doesn't account for the wildly different effects of how each benzo acts. I take 4mg of Klonopin a day but my dose of 60mg of temazepam at night feels way stronger and more euphoric. It feels better then the 2x 2mg Xanax bars i was on before just switching to Klonopin because I wanted the long duration of action just dosing 2mg 2x a day to avoid panic attacks instead of take the xanax when you have one. But according to that chart 60mg of Temazepam (what im prescribed to sleep) isn't even equivalent to one Xanax bar. As helpful as this table is we need some in depth info on speed of onset, peak plasma levels, and half life as well.
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I agree that this helps in relative potency but it doesn't account for the wildly different effects of how each benzo acts. I take 4mg of Klonopin a day but my dose of 60mg of temazepam at night feels way stronger and more euphoric. It feels better then the 2x 2mg Xanax bars i was on before just switching to Klonopin because I wanted the long duration of action just dosing 2mg 2x a day to avoid panic attacks instead of take the xanax when you have one. But according to that chart 60mg of Temazepam (what im prescribed to sleep) isn't even equivalent to one Xanax bar. As helpful as this table is we need some in depth info on speed of onset, peak plasma levels, and half life as well.
Bezos aren’t opiates are perhaps your getting fused. Considering the ones I’m making a that chat (and yes I welcome positive feedback) we’ll focus on GABAa
There were 16 yes 16 GABAa receptors. There are also 3 GABAA-rho receptor receptors that by their mechanism of action are classified in the same group.
Different receptors produce different results.