dopetalk
Core Topics => Substance Usage, Management, User Experiences etc. => Topic started by: Chip on June 30, 2015, 12:43:36 AM
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two people's use of d-meth is WAY too high but one feels quite unwell.
what or how do you become the voice of reason ?
this is possibly one of the most important posts regarding the keeping your peers healthy and waelthy.
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self admission to a psychiatric facility may yeild the best possible outcome.
standby.
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In an ideal situation, these two people would check themselves into rehab or a psychiatric facility. They may not be amenable to that though. I don't know about Australia, but here in the US we have a thing called a 72-hour hold.
If a person is a threat / danger to themselves or others, a doctor can commit them for care for 72-hours. If after 72-hours the person still needs help, and won't cooperate, the courts can get involved (usually at the behest of the person's family) and compel the person to remain in care.
Just know that if you go this route, you may be damaging your relationship with these two people, possibly forever. This might be especially true if they don't want to go to treatment, if they're not in their right mental state, if they tend to hold resentment / grudges, etc. But, they also might come to realize you were doing what's in their best interest. It really could go either way.
I can understand why you'd be concerned. I in no way know as much as you about methamphetamine, but I do know it's horrible for one's body and mind, or can be. At lot of psychiatric symptoms with heavy meth use: paranoia, depression, anger / rage, convoluted or irrational thoughts, etc.
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they DID voluntarily go in.
time to rest, guys.
have faith.
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initial treatment is with Risperidone.
a strong med, long half life.
... a bit later, need to check chest infection so scans are up.
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things should change for the better ... many if not all of us have been there -- and we survived.
never underestimate the role of good food, sleep, exercise and rest (and a stable domestic situation) has on those in our game.
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returning to normal after meds., food and sleep but nose bleeds have been experienced (see http://forum.drugs-and-users.org/index.php/topic,809.0.html)
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this didn't end that well.
i now understand what a "paranoid schizophrenic" does when they stop taking their meds.
the person concerned has damaged her house, her body etc. but she flip/flops from normal to "possessed" and back quickly, for want of a better word.
can we blame the drugs ? not directly, as they are only the catalyst ... so what's the root of the problem ? well, we concur that she never has processed all the VERY shitty things that have been thrust upon her and also the many lousy things experienced by herself.
a childhood of the MOST hideous proportions.
what would i recommend ? don't laugh, i have seen it work very well, but MDMA would def. be worth a try (to flush out all the shit that's festering inside) ... an empathetic person or "guide" is indicated.
yes, MDMA is one of the great psych. drugs, if used correctly.
... and i know for a fact that there are psychiatrists whom source MDMA from the street ... what a pity the world didn't wise up on it.
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MDMA is a good choice. But like you said, a guide is imperative. What happens if she's feeling / reliving one of those traumatic events? She needs supervision for that.
Another choice is ayahuasca. I can see some kind of vision quest helping her. Possibly even mescaline too.
Psychedelics could be dangerous for a schizophrenic person. There were some studies on LSD and schizophrenia in the 50's / 60's. I don't remember the results though.
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<snip>Psychedelics could be dangerous for a schizophrenic person. There were some studies on LSD and schizophrenia in the 50's / 60's. I don't remember the results though.
excellent point and great HR, too.
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There were some studies on LSD and schizophrenia in the 50's / 60's. I don't remember the results though.
Results were that for the people who already had schizophrenia the disease was exacerbated at least semi-permanently.
MDMA would be worth a try in this individual. But then again maybe not, since she is so sensitized to methamphetamine, a dose of MDMA might trigger a full-blown relapse. Don't rat and mouse studies show some crossover with MDMA and methamp sensitization?
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the methamphetamine would mitigate the effect as would her psych. meds (that she is NOT taking).
a higher dose might do the trick - the potential benefits are huge, tho'
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Sounds like your friend is one of the many users who's actually self medicating which tells you quite a bit about the quality of mental health treatment .
There are studies here putting the number of dual diagnosis service users at 50% and that stat will go much higher when street users are thrown in.
It's a difficult situation and a lot will depend on how much she realises she has a problem and her willingness to accept help. Much luck with it,man.
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In this situation whatever you do or say quite often isn't welcomed and doesn't go down well so be prepared. It could get ugly.
Basically, take a break, get some sleep and take it from there.
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when I last visited, she was fine - taking her meds. the meds really work well here.
her brother, and I tell her that she's much better on them but she doesn't like their suppresion.
it's hopefully on the mend but broken windows etc. bear the scars.
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I picked this up at Drug Court last week. Only just remembered I had it (must be the drugs).
It's a brochure by "The Australian Drug Foundation" called "Your guide to Mental Health and Alcohol and other Drug Problems".
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meds taken. takes a bit to work but she's fine now. a happy ending. it's a delayed stress response, of sorts.
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Some schizophrenia types (there are more than one type. Catatonic schizophrenia, paranoid schizophrenia, etc. If I remember correctly, there are 5 subtypes of schizophrenia) are harder to treat than others.
Suffers basically relapse from choosing to stop taking their meds. Same thing with Bipolar patients.
I can understand that, although it is bad for them. The meds used to treat those conditions are like chemical restraints. Anti-psychotics have bad side-effects and tend to make people into zombies, where they're just blunted / suppressed. And certain neuroleptics used in Bipolar disorder also cause a lot of bad side-effects.
People report feeling emotionally blunted, suppressed or weighed down, slowed, basically chemically restrained in a prison.
Even though it causes those symptoms, it's still really important for those patients to continue taking their meds. When they go off them, chaos tends to ensue.
Your friend really chose a horrible drug for her condition. I can't see methamphetamine, or any stimulant, helping her in the long run, at least not mental-health wise.
Why is methamphetamine so popular there? It seems like the biggest drug of abuse there is meth. Is it b/c Australia has very lax laws regarding the precursor chemicals, and therefore they're imported from China or other countries near by?
And if so, why's it so expensive? I remember Michael saying a point (100mg) costing about $100 there. You could get a gram or so of crystal for that here, at least last time I heard.
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i suppose that it's popular because there is no apparent physical addiction.
we pay around $40-50 a point but it can fetch up to $100 at the right place, at the right time.
yeah, lots of people use it and as to really why ? you'd have to ask them. personally, it gives me enthusiasm and energy to tackle various tasks etc.
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I'm coming to this a bit late but I would say that ALL drugs would be contraindicated
EXCEPT for something like risperidone/olanzepine/ziprasidone
the nice thing about these drugs is that they are widely over-prescribed in the US
especially to women with mood disorders
obviously it is always best to get someone to an actual doctor and/or hospital
but short of the involuntary 72hr hold, there are often few if any choices
once someone has started to lose control of their psychological functions
you are putting them and everyone else at risk by not doing anything
I know it can be especially difficult to make that decision
as many of us may have been in similar situations, but made it through ok without any major problems
and were damn grateful not to have been involuntarily committed to a psychiatric hospital!
Just remember that this person is not you, and this is not that time you made it through ok
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I've never gotten a satisfactory answer to quis question before, but why do you always refer to methamphetamine as d-meth? As far as I understerdood, clandestine synthesis almost 100% leads to the racemate 50/50 d/l meth. How is it that Australian dope is almost twice as potent as that we have in the Americas?
Do they use straight ephedrine as the precursor instead of pseudoephedrine over here?
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Man this is a hard one
I would not get her put
On a 72 hour hold
I have been on the receiving end
Of that
I cut people out of my life
For that
I know there were just trying
To do what they thought was best for me
I get where she it's coming from
Not wanting to take her meds
That Shit can make you feel like
Someone is stealing your soul
Just let her know you
Care just be there.hold her hand
Thick and thin
You know sometimes Shit gets way to thick
You could offer up the suggestion
That there is always tomorrow
I don't know
I wish you the best
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From what I understand, the price of tweak has gone down to about $40-50/G in most places around here, down from the ~100/g it was a few years ago. That it fetches $100 a point in Oz just blows my mind.
Out here Ephedra grows wild, it's most commonly just a bush (I think there are actually a lot of plants that have Ephedrine). If I was a tweaker, believe that I'd be living out in the desert!
I think by using either ephedrine and/or certain, not very common synthetic routes one can get to pure d-meth, but I'm not very well versed in tweak chemistry. I'm pretty sure I've seen a paper that claims d-meth from pseudo using electrolysis tho, but I'm not %100 sure and don't feel like looking for the paper. It might have actually been a "Fester" paper if I remember right, it used a palladium (or platinum) electrode, it did seem legit but wtf do I know..
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I've never gotten a satisfactory answer to quis question before, but why do you always refer to methamphetamine as d-meth? As far as I understerdood, clandestine synthesis almost 100% leads to the racemate 50/50 d/l meth. How is it that Australian dope is almost twice as potent as that we have in the Americas?
Do they use straight ephedrine as the precursor instead of pseudoephedrine over here?
because our purity is nudging over the 80% mark so I assumed it was d-meth.
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Some schizophrenia types (there are more than one type. Catatonic schizophrenia, paranoid schizophrenia, etc. If I remember correctly, there are 5 subtypes of schizophrenia) are harder to treat than others.
Suffers basically relapse from choosing to stop taking their meds. Same thing with Bipolar patients.
I can understand that, although it is bad for them. The meds used to treat those conditions are like chemical restraints. Anti-psychotics have bad side-effects and tend to make people into zombies, where they're just blunted / suppressed. And certain neuroleptics used in Bipolar disorder also cause a lot of bad side-effects.
People report feeling emotionally blunted, suppressed or weighed down, slowed, basically chemically restrained in a prison.
The subtypes thing went out in 2013 with the DSM V; they were confusing the issue as many sufferers had multiple symptoms.
If risperdone is not working for her she should talk to her psychiatrist about trying another med. Granted all of them have blunting effects to some extent, but maybe another med will work better, its really different for each person.
Here's more info about schizophrenia for anyone interested: http://www.dsm5.org/Documents/Schizophrenia%20fact%20Sheet.pdf
Has she actually been diagnosed as schizophrenic, or does she just have drug induced psychosis? (the difference being when shes not on meth, she doesn't have psychotic symptoms.) And how old is she?
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From what I understand, the price of tweak has gone down to about $40-50/G in most places around here, down from the ~100/g it was a few years ago. That it fetches $100 a point in Oz just blows my mind.
Out here Ephedra grows wild, it's most commonly just a bush (I think there are actually a lot of plants that have Ephedrine). If I was a tweaker, believe that I'd be living out in the desert!
I think by using either ephedrine and/or certain, not very common synthetic routes one can get to pure d-meth, but I'm not very well versed in tweak chemistry. I'm pretty sure I've seen a paper that claims d-meth from pseudo using electrolysis tho, but I'm not %100 sure and don't feel like looking for the paper. It might have actually been a "Fester" paper if I remember right, it used a palladium (or platinum) electrode, it did seem legit but wtf do I know..
Yea that one is easy it's just a matter of off a double bonded oxygen and replacing it with a hydrogen
Learns that one real fat
Eperda is the same molecule structure dmeth the o sits where a h should be.