dopetalk
General => General Discussion for Everybody => Topic started by: duck on December 24, 2015, 11:22:18 AM
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I dont know if asexuality is a word. But it is me.
Life has been fuckin great as of late since getting back on methadone 7 months ago. It kinda sucks not being able to travel for my old steel erecting company but I've been able to work on my own subcontracting so that's cool.
Friends and family couldn't be better, mood is good, I actually exercise in the morning on my way to work from the clinic. Starting to get my paper straight again.
All the side effects of sobriety, swesting, teeth frinding, anxiety are all gone.
So all is good. Cept idgaf about pussy whatsoever. Which is really striking to me as I was a horny little fucker while I was off the clinic. But now I truly couldn't be bothered. It doesn't even sound that appetizing go me.
Last time I was on mmt it was kinda similar but nothing this bad. I'm coming up on 6 MONTHS of not having sex. Even more Than not wanting to fuck I especially don't want a girlfriend to dote on and text sweet nothings. I am 100% happy and content Goin it alone.
But I just feel like a weirdo. Like i need to be having sex just to stay in society. I don't really like going out to bars and getting fucked up and then taking a girl home, drunk girls gross me out.
Is there anything I can take or do to increase labido? Seriously the only reason I jerk off is so I don't have a wet dream..I've thought about just going online and hooking up on one of those swiping sites.
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Is there anything you can take?
Ya, it's called "testosterone."
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AND. if your working out try working your legs really hard. They say the leg muscles either boost testosterone the most, or allow it to be absorbed easier or something.
Extenze also, its basicly a bunch of herbs that you could probably piece together for a lot cheaper. I got problems when i've been drinking getting it up so that helps, but i noticed it also makes your workout more intense. both in the bed and out. Yohimibine or somthing like that is one of the main causes. Tong Kat, and l-arginine is in it too, which is supposed to boost T. when this pack runs out ill probably make my own blend ordering the ingredients.
I went a year, unfourtunatly, without sex... BUT when i bounced back it was insane. 3 somes and tinder girls. but i have always been the type that doesn't want anything to do with a relationship, so its not like i ever really had sex like 7 days a week. I've always been a one night stand or friends with benefits person.
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Here is a great study on methadones effect on testosterone in men and women:
http://www.nature.com/articles/srep06189
So, all opiates lower testosterone levels. It's just much much worse with merhadone. Partly because it stays in your system so long and there are no real ups and downs with methadone giving your hormones a chance to recover when you sleep.
Check out some of the symptoms for low testosterone... I had low, really no libido, low energy, always in a bad mood, and I was accumulating fat on my belly. When I had blood work done, my testosterone was around 250 ng/dl or so. There is no set optimum level for testosterone, it's more of a range. It differs based on age and genetics. For example, a 20 year old black male is almost guaranteed to have a higher testosterone level than a 30 year old chinese male. So a level of testosterone that may cause symptoms in one man may not in another.
Using testosterone supplements has solved all my issues with methadone. My mood is great, I'm not all bitchy and emo all the time. Sex drive is set to boney horner. Well it's calmed down some now that I've gotten used to the testosterone and leveled out some but it's at a normal level now. When I first started, I was wacking off with every shower and getting boners when my thigh touched my other leg. I'm losing fat and gaining muscle. Do some research on that. I'm just on a replacement dose of testosterone to get my levels back to normal (I keep mine around 1200 ng/dl or so which is the tip top of the natural scale) but, people using body builder doses gained more muscle not working out than natural guys who were working out. I could not use methadone without testosterone.
The biggest problem I've had with testosterone replacement is I got gynecomastia. I did not know that some people need aromatase inhibitors to keep their estrogen from getting out of control. I had to have surgery to remove it. This could've been easily avoided had I done some research.
Another big thing that even doctors might not tell you is that your body may have a hard time restarting it's natural testosterone production when it's time to get off of methadone. This post is getting long already and I won't get into it too much but there's a very good chance that could happen if you use testosterone supplements for an extended period of time. It happened to me. There are kinda pseudo ways to treat it but, most likely, I'm going to have to be on testosterone replacement therapy for the rest of my life. Point is, either go to a doctor or do a shit ton of research before fucking with your hormones yourself.
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Holy fuck surgery to remove Gyne?
I've had Gynecomastia, purely from 3 years of MMT (I just turned 45), for maybe 6mos now. First the off-the-hook profuse sweating, and then Gyne and I said 'fuck this'.
That shit HURTS.
I saw an Endocrinologist and he didn't want to put me on T, cos I'm tapering and there's nothing else wrong. He said that if I supplement, it might keep my body from producing it on its own. My levels a couple months ago were like 215 -- low, too low. Way too low.. My levels are normally pretty good I think, I never had any problems until I got on MMT.
As an aside it's a little weird being a guy with like ZERO interest in sex. For me it's getting better pretty quickly, but it was over a year that I didn't care who you were, how hot, how attractive I thought you were on a whole -- I just wasn't interested in sex. At all. Honestly it seemed in hindsight almost like a burden or something. But three years ago I thought sex was a fantastic gift that as humans, we're lucky to be able to enjoy so much, and I loved it. Now it's just like "meh" (but definitely getting better). Hormones are funny things..
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I've got similar issues and really need to get on the test from an md.
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Maybe I shouldn't reply cuz
Well,
I'm not a dude
But I think it's hella awesome that you
Are completely cool with
Being alone
I find that men who are comfortable alone
Are men who make good lovers
Not feeling like you NEED a woman
To complete you
Is defo one of the best qualities
A man can have
So there's that
Glad to hear that
You are doing so well
Go Duck!!
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I'm too old for sex anyway and thought that asexuality was kinda handy - not being motivated by sex can be liberating.
I am stuck on 17.5 mg right now :(
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There a black hole where your libido goes!
It's not just methadone my friend, chronic opiate abuse in general will lower your levels of testosterone. I haven't been laid in almost a year, and the only time I cared was after being clean for a month during rehab or when I was in deep WDs.
It's funny to me to go to forums like r/opiates and see inexperienced opiate users talking about their new found sexual prowess related to opiates. "I always get b0ners when I smoke r0xys guyz!"
If someone had told me the sexual side effects of chronic opiate abuse, maybe I wouldn't have started using them so often.
Even when I did have a sex drive and was in a sexual healthy relationship, I couldn't reach orgasm because of the opiates. Man, I went over a year and a half faking orgasms so my girlfriends wouldn't develop a complex. I can't even begin to explain how frustrating it was to feel like you're about to reach climax but never get there.
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I've got similar issues and really need to get on the test from an md.
The first step would be to get a blood test. You have to go in the morning when your testosterone levels are the highest. With that, pretty much any doctor will prescribe for it. They will probably start you off with the gel or a drug called clomid at first. Most don't go straight to injectables. There are some cash only online sites that use legitimate doctors that will prescribe you injectable testosterone with bloodwork. Good way to go if you don't have insurance and don't want to jump through the hoops. Of course, there are also a ton of places online selling the stuff... just make sure you do a ton of research, doctor or not. It's not trivial stuff messing with hormones.
Holy fuck surgery to remove Gyne?
I've had Gynecomastia, purely from 3 years of MMT (I just turned 45), for maybe 6mos now. First the off-the-hook profuse sweating, and then Gyne and I said 'fuck this'.
That shit HURTS.
I saw an Endocrinologist and he didn't want to put me on T, cos I'm tapering and there's nothing else wrong. He said that if I supplement, it might keep my body from producing it on its own. My levels a couple months ago were like 215 -- low, too low. Way too low.. My levels are normally pretty good I think, I never had any problems until I got on MMT.
As an aside it's a little weird being a guy with like ZERO interest in sex. For me it's getting better pretty quickly, but it was over a year that I didn't care who you were, how hot, how attractive I thought you were on a whole -- I just wasn't interested in sex. At all. Honestly it seemed in hindsight almost like a burden or something. But three years ago I thought sex was a fantastic gift that as humans, we're lucky to be able to enjoy so much, and I loved it. Now it's just like "meh" (but definitely getting better). Hormones are funny things..
If you have true glandular gynecomastia, surgery is usually the only way to remove it. All men have a little bit of glandular tissue which is basically breast tissue. Gynecomastia causes it to grow. Mine wasn't all that bad... my nipples looked really puffy but I didn't have full out boobs. It really bothered me though so I got it removed. Some people have pseudogynecomastia which is just fat and not gland. Some people have reported being able to get rid of real gyno or reduce it with aromatase inhibitors. Didn't work for me. Sometimes gynecomastia will go away on its own when hormone levels return to normal but, from what I've gathered, that usually only happens in teenage boys going through puberty.
When I had it, we'll when it was growing and before I got on aromatase inhibitors, my nipples were more sensitive than my dick. Good thing is man that should go away as soon as you get your levels balanced out.
If you're not planning on staying on methadone long term, it might be worth it to stick it out if you can and not ruin your body's natural ability to make the stuff. My life was in such a way that the now was much more important than the long term... at least it felt like it. I needed stability badly... it worked great, but I'm paying for it now. Even if I get off the 'done, I don't think I'll ever be normal without T replacement anymore.
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Thanks for all the replies...I may just go in and get my blood tested.
I don't wanna feel all amped up alpha gorilla mode...does test do that to ya? I like the sedating effects of my methadone..
And yeah I will be on methadone for years
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Thanks for all the replies...I may just go in and get my blood tested.
I don't wanna feel all amped up alpha gorilla mode...does test do that to ya? I like the sedating effects of my methadone..
And yeah I will be on methadone for years
Ya I'd say hit Doc Bowtie up about it ;) Im sure he will be willing to help, and has dealt with it before....it's not an uncommon thing.
Being at the other end of the spectrum....tied down like so(not complaining at all) just focus on yourself and get your shit straight and the right girl(s) will fall into your lap when you least expect it. Then the doting and such won't be a chore at all.
Stay the course, lad.
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Yeah all opiates, but especially methadone, definitely decrease testosterone production in long term users. When I was on methadone I could go months without ever getting horny and I had a live in girlfriend, practically married at the time (luckily she too was on the clinic and I've seen it kill libido in women just as much). For whatever reason the fentanyl didn't have the libido killing effect, though I have no idea what it actually did or didn't do wrt test levels. Once I went on bupe I got levels tested and as I suspected they were low specifically the "free" testosterone which is the one that matters. The total T really only shows how much is being produced but with the majority of it protein bound it is completely useless unless something breaks down the protein. So I said fuck it asked the doctor for the Androgel stuff and within days I'm like wtf I gotta get some damn! And was way more motivated to go to gym and do physical shit in general. Even mentally/cognitively/motivationally it had effects. And I still take it, I couldn't go back to being an asexual uninterested zombie ever again. I'm not all over macho igno-male now or anything, I've always been on the hypersensitive side, I'm just in one sense potentially quicker to fight than I ever have been before but I think thats more the prison mentality and the final realization that any unsettled and unresolvable argument or any argument with an irrational stronger person inevitably leads to physical conflict or the "shame" of accepting someone else's position by virtue of feeling like you can't win. Fuck that.
It is definitely worth it to do. Yes it will start to interfere with natural production (as evidenced by shrinking balls) if the dose is too high, but this was never the case for me with a two week exception when I started the HepC cure, as HepC also lowers T due to the constant high liver enzyme count, and the binding of additional free T by them. When I started it, the sudden destruction of viral replication led to the sudden stop of enzyme release and natural degradation of the free enzymes, and it released all the excess bound T rapidly. I could notice that too I felt like I was on steroids for like a week, and actually had the levels tested because I was noticing being wicked aggressive (not starting physical fights and shit, but just flipping out over little shit and being "in ur face" over it). That subsided pretty quick though once the HCV VL was down to nothing (and it gets there very quickly with that drug combo).
So long story short, especially if you have a girlfriend/wife, but even if you don't, and are on the clinic or really any opiates long term but especially the clinic, I'd highly recommend getting on it. And if any potential effects on your natural production or worries about other side effects are dissuasive, look into SARMs (selective androgen receptor modulators, they are very new synthetic non-steroidal anabolic substances that have totally different chemistry and do not interfere with natural production, and will have same impact on sex drive. Not only that as they ratio of anabolic/androgenic effects in many are from 10 to 30/1 (T is 1/1, its the standard) you won't have shrinking balls and gynecomastia and DHT production i.e. baldness if you overdo it, and if you're into working out I imagine you'd get jacked pretty quick. I don't believe any are approved as prescriptions at the moment but they are also completely unrestricted and there are websites selling them.
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I dont know if asexuality is a word. But it is me.
Life has been fuckin great as of late since getting back on methadone 7 months ago. It kinda sucks not being able to travel for my old steel erecting company but I've been able to work on my own subcontracting so that's cool.
Friends and family couldn't be better, mood is good, I actually exercise in the morning on my way to work from the clinic. Starting to get my paper straight again.
All the side effects of sobriety, swesting, teeth frinding, anxiety are all gone.
So all is good. Cept idgaf about pussy whatsoever. Which is really striking to me as I was a horny little fucker while I was off the clinic. But now I truly couldn't be bothered. It doesn't even sound that appetizing go me.
Last time I was on mmt it was kinda similar but nothing this bad. I'm coming up on 6 MONTHS of not having sex. Even more Than not wanting to fuck I especially don't want a girlfriend to dote on and text sweet nothings. I am 100% happy and content Goin it alone.
But I just feel like a weirdo. Like i need to be having sex just to stay in society. I don't really like going out to bars and getting fucked up and then taking a girl home, drunk girls gross me out.
Is there anything I can take or do to increase labido? Seriously the only reason I jerk off is so I don't have a wet dream..I've thought about just going online and hooking up on one of those swiping sites.
Test-os-ter-one. Go to your MD and ask to have it tested. Explain that you are on methadone and you understand that opiates supresss your testosterone production.
I don't want to get too personal but after I started getting free buprenorphine I started using more and found myself turing into a sexless, lazy blob with no ambition. Saw some ads, got the test, found that indeed it was low and got the Androgel. It takes a few weeks of daily use (like applying skin cream to your shoulders) and man, it works. I am so ready to fuck or fight it is scary.
Both sexes need it to be truly healthy. Seriously though, withth supplemental T I feel better than I have in years.
I don't generally tell people this but because as opiate users we are all likely to have unnaturally low T it is something we should look into especially if you are gaining weight, lacking tone and find yourself not interested in sex.
If for no other reason do it as a favor to your SO. It will be appreciated.
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Has anyone in their 20s been on testosterone or tried it? All the males in my family have it, but they all got on it in their mid to late 30s. I am the only opiate addict and I have a lot of the symptoms of low T. I just always talk myself out of asking when I goto the doctor. I am going to force myself to get them to test my levels in January. Is it just a blood test?
Also does MMT affect anyone elses blood pressure? Mine was fine when after got off and finished the worst of the w/d, and when I started losing weight, now it has gone back up again. When I went to the doctor my bp was 180/120 which is ridiculous and it has never been that high. I stopped taking my bp meds when I started losing weight but I am taking them again. I take bystolic and it helps but the done definitely makes mine high. For the first 6 hours after taking it my bp is really high my social anxiety makes it worse it goes up when I'm being tested.
I have had almost no sexual desire or sex life since getting on MMT. I do get wet dreams occasionally which is weird, I have never had one before getting on MMT, when I was on 280 they were more frequent and have happened a few times since getting back on. I have read on other MMT threads that other guys were experiencing the same thing, low libido but frequent wet dreams. It is annoying and has actually happened when I stayed at a friends house after drinking.
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Thanks for all the replies...I may just go in and get my blood tested.
I don't wanna feel all amped up alpha gorilla mode...does test do that to ya? I like the sedating effects of my methadone..
And yeah I will be on methadone for years
I think you'll feel like that to an extent but nothe anything close to the way you're describing it. I just feel ready to kick ass in a get shit done type of way. Like the way you feel when you're doing well in sports. I think roid rage is people who are already predisposed to being assholes... testosterone just helps them along a bit. I think steroids and bodybuilders tend to attract those kind of people. Testosterone is a natural type feel good. I don't think anyone doesn't like the way it makes you feel...
Has anyone in their 20s been on testosterone or tried it? All the males in my family have it, but they all got on it in their mid to late 30s. I am the only opiate addict and I have a lot of the symptoms of low T. I just always talk myself out of asking when I goto the doctor. I am going to force myself to get them to test my levels in January. Is it just a blood test?
Also does MMT affect anyone elses blood pressure? Mine was fine when after got off and finished the worst of the w/d, and when I started losing weight, now it has gone back up again. When I went to the doctor my bp was 180/120 which is ridiculous and it has never been that high. I stopped taking my bp meds when I started losing weight but I am taking them again. I take bystolic and it helps but the done definitely makes mine high. For the first 6 hours after taking it my bp is really high my social anxiety makes it worse it goes up when I'm being tested.
I have had almost no sexual desire or sex life since getting on MMT. I do get wet dreams occasionally which is weird, I have never had one before getting on MMT, when I was on 280 they were more frequent and have happened a few times since getting back on. I have read on other MMT threads that other guys were experiencing the same thing, low libido but frequent wet dreams. It is annoying and has actually happened when I stayed at a friends house after drinking.
I'm 27 and started using testosterone when I was 25. I just buy it off the net though. I did go to an Endocrinologist and was honest about methadone and he ran a blood test on me. He wanted to prescribe me clomid. It's another drug that's not a steroid but is used off label to boost testosterone. I didn't really wanna do that and had easy access to testosterone. It's pretty cheap too. My sister who is a doctor was willing to prescribe me testosterone. I didn't take her up on it because I wasn't sure if I wanted my sister to be my doc and I was a little scared to go get bloodwork done for the first time since I started IVing. Also, she wanted to give me around 100 mgs a week and I like to do around 200 mgs.
It should be pretty easy to find a doctor to script it. Even PCPs will do it. If you don't have insurance, I know there are legit doctors that do these like online consultations and will give you injectable testosterone with pretty much just a test showing low bloodwork. I can dig up some websites for you if you'd like.
A couple other things you should know if youre considering testosterone replacement therapy is that, one, it will increase your dihydrotestosterone. This means that, if you're genetically predisposed to balding, you might accelerate hair loss. Also, using testosterone usually ups your red blood cell count and makes your blood really thick. It's recommended to donate blood once every couple of months I think it is to keep this in check.
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I have always wondered if I could donate blood on MMT. I was turned down by a money for plasma place, I have been curious if blood is the same way. I don't think it would get you high, like if I got a blood transfusion from william burroughs before he died would that be like a grand shot of smack? I doubt it but it would be a nice perk if I ever had to get a blood transfusion.
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yeah i really doubt you can donate blood while on mmt lol...
anyways, I am going to set up an appointment monday to get my test levels tested.
what are the main draw backs and side effects of test treatment?
Is there any evidence that shows that by supplementing test when younger (im 27) can cause problems later in life, specifically making it harder for your body to produce test since it has had an exogenous source?
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Please keep us updated duck, this is something I have been very interested in for the past 2 years. I have always talked myself out of it, but I am really going to try and it get it done on my next appointment. If anyone whose been on it can share the bad side effects that they dealt with that would be great, I am also curious of long term effects that it could have.
I have always felt like I had low testosterone even when I was a kid, I have never had a real drive, and have been noticeably different then my friends when it comes to lifting weights, and gaining muscle. I have always had bigger man boobs than everyone which has made me self conscious, like when I was 120 lbs from a long opana run and could see every bone, I still had fat on my chest and it always makes me look like I have boobs.
Now that I am fat, I am almost a b cup seriously, when I was 230 I probably was a b cup. I have never experienced swollen or tenderness which kind of made me rule out gynecomastia, but I think it might be due to my testosterone levels. It is weird to explain, basically I have always had man boobs even when I was extremely skinny, and it has made me self conscious.
I am hoping that testosterone can help fix some of my attributes that I don't like, like being unmotivated, depressed, anxious, low energy, no sex drive, and my sleep problems. I hope that it is the reason why I experience a lot of that. Do you know if having low testosterone could effect my tremors, I have terrible tremors, especially in my hands, and its getting worse and beginning to effect me. I have always thought that I had parkinsons disease but I am a bit of a hypochondriac so I've ruled it out.
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I think you're right. My sister said she doesn't think they will let you donate blood even if you're just on testosterone. She said there's this thing you can do where they draw your blood but just dispose of it. I forgot the name of it though...
Duck: I don't mean to be a dick man but have you read the thread? The answers to your questions are all there... as someone who didnt, I'd strongly suggest you do your own research before starting, even if seeing a doctor. Gynecomastia, hair loss (I'm not 100% but I'm pretty sure this really only affects people that are genetically predisposed to male pattern baldness), and a good chance of your body not being able to restart it's own natural production (even after getting off the test) are probably the biggest side effects imo.
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Griffin, a lot of men have gynecomastia. Some stats say up to 40% of men. If you have pseudogynecomastia, which is just fat, working out and losing weight (which testosterone will help with) will definitely help and should help you resolve your issue 100%. If it's true gynecomastia, which is not fat but actually breast gland, you will probably need surgery to remove it. Testosterone will not help. If you go to do a consultation with a plastic surgeon, which should be free, they should be able to let you know which one it is. If you do some googling theres a test you can do on yourself but it's hard to tell for sure. Usually a good plastic surgeon who has dealt with gynecomastia will have experience with feeling out if it's gland or fat. If you do need surgery, it'll be about 3k to 10k depending on if you get IV anesthesia or put fully to sleep and how severe it is. I paid 4250 I think it was and was put under.
Sorry for the double post...
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Thanks for the info guts! I don't think I would have surgery to fix it unless it became a problem, like a lot of pain or something like that. I was just kind of hoping that the testosterone would fix it. The only elective surgery I think I would have is the one that stops your arm pits from sweating.
It sounds stupid but that was one of the main reasons I got back on MMT and became addicted in the first place. Opiates pretty much cured it. My anxiety causes me to sweat and within an hour I will have a pit-stain the size of a basketball. I used to have to bring a few shirts anywhere I went. Even if I am freezing, I'd sweat the same.
When I got off MMT from getting arrested, it came back and I had forgotten how embarrassing and bad it is. Even though MMT makes me sweat everywhere else more I don't have any armpit sweat it is so weird. Kind of like how MMT cured my constipation. I doubt very many people were as lucky as me.
When I was at work everyone could see my pit sweat, the staff and customers. I couldn't hide it, even if I had my arms down, and stuck paper towels on my armpits. I remember how bad it was in high school, I would change my shirt after every class and within 30 minutes it was noticeable and to big to cover up. It is super embarrassing, and nothing except opiates made it better, no deodorants or anything.
I am hoping that if I get on testosterone that it doesn't bring it back. I think that the MMT will keep in check if it does. It is so stupid that is one of the major reasons I got addicted. I remember the first day I took opiates, I stopped sweating, even when I was in social spaces and I didn't have a panic attack for almost a year. When I went through withdrawals for 4 days and was hungover on a plane was the first time I got one and it was a year after starting opiates.
Opiates changed my life completely I went from having multiple panic attacks a day to having none, which took away a lot of my depression. Unfortunately there is no free ride and you gotta pay the piper eventually. It cured a lot of my anxiety in the longterm though. After being able to live for a year with out panic attacks, and only getting them during w/d made them go away almost completely.
Has anyone experienced anxiety or more sweating from the testosterone? Hopefully it makes people less anxious, but I could see it bringing energy and if it is pent up could lead to anxiety. MMT makes me sweat more, does the testosterone have any effect on it like making it worse or better?
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That's so weird... I sweat a lot more on methadone than I did before I got on it. But weirdly enough, I don't sweat much from my pits. Most my face and my back.
After I got on methadone but before I got on testosterone, I used to be really embarrassed about the sweating. Especially when going to class. After getting on testosterone, I feel like I sweat less than I used to but still more than what's "normal". Thing is, I just don't care anymore. Testosterone is a GREAT antidepressant and makes you feel like you're on top of the world. I've read experience reports from non drug users saying they can't wait for their next shot. It really is a confidence booster but, at the same time, it's not at all like a drug high. You just feel like you're the man. If you've ever had a job in sales, it feels like your best sales day. Or when you get a pretty girls number or are in the zone scoring a lot of points in a sport. That's the best I can describe it. Whenever I go a couple days past when I'm supposed to do my shot, I feel flat. I'll be all down and then I'll remember that I didn't do my testosterone. Once I do the shot, I'm pumped up again. A lot of people say it takes them 2-3 weeks to feel the effects but I feel it within a few minutes. It maybe a placebo but then again it's going right in a muscle...
On a side note, have any of you guys tried cinnamon (can be bought as pills at any pharmacy) or Vitadone (a vitamin blend made specifically for people on methadone) for sweating? I've had mixed results with both but some people report it working really well for them.
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I think you're right. My sister said she doesn't think they will let you donate blood even if you're just on testosterone. She said there's this thing you can do where they draw your blood but just dispose of it. I forgot the name of it though...
Duck: I don't mean to be a dick man but have you read the thread? The answers to your questions are all there... as someone who didnt, I'd strongly suggest you do your own research before starting, even if seeing a doctor. Gynecomastia, hair loss (I'm not 100% but I'm pretty sure this really only affects people that are genetically predisposed to male pattern baldness), and a good chance of your body not being able to restart it's own natural production (even after getting off the test) are probably the biggest side effects imo.
When I used to give blood they always asked a few screeing questions. One was "have you used IV drugs?" If yes you were DQ'ed. However, when I went to begin Hep C treatment I mentiond this and the doctor told me tha now they will accept blood with Hep C and treat it with the new drugs so it is safe. It may be that being on MMT the assumtion is you are an IV drug user and therefore a high risk donor but with the new treatments this may have changed.
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Some great posts up there Guts.
I've read and am experiencing a reduction of gyne (which I'm %100 I have - you mentioned your nips being more sensitive that the tip o' yer dick? Ya, me too, by a LONG LONG ways; a simple brush up against either of my nips causes PAIN, and it's both of them, and they both have like a mass underneath that hasn't always been there).
As the other symptoms of really low T fade, so is this problem. It's actually gotten markedly better just in like the last two weeks. 4mos ago I was on 110mg MD -- now I'm down to 64. I've been cutting ~%10 every two or three (or 4) weeks, and once I got down to like 80ish, I started to really notice a lessening of symptoms, which aside from the gyne included horribly ridiculously profuse sweating - interestingly though, not really from my pits, either, but from just about everyuckingwhere else though!!
I'd be surprised if most cases of "real" gyne; that get caught early, and that are dealt and that respond to whatever the treatment may be, do actually require surgery; but I could be wrong and I'm basing that mostly on my own experience with a dash of some shit I've read. But like I said: I could be totally wrong, for all I know I'm not out of the woods with this shit yet, even though it feels a whole lot better lately, and I'm noticing the masses seem to be shrinking.
I tried cinnamon, I've posted about it here. IME it can definitely help, for me it really seemed like certain brands worked much better than others, and it's tough to predict what does and doesn't work. At one point I went to an herbal specialist and bought a zip of this high-dollar, super tasty, imported from somewhere exotic, ass-kicking cinnamon and it did FUCK ALL for the sweating. Tasted great but it helped me naught. I think I probably had the best and most consistent (that's relative) results from the Safeway "spice island" shit than from anything else. Cinnamon seemed very hit-and-miss to me; but there were definitely days where I could tell it was working, I remember one day where the hot-flashes just stopped within like 10 minutes of eating cinnamon, and I felt totally normal the rest of the day. So it's definitely worth trying IMO..
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Deadcat: Do they want to know know if youre a current IV drug user or if you've ever been? Basically, I'm trying to ask are you disqualified for using even just once?
Opus: Thanks :)
So, according to this chart:
http://www.nature.com/articles/srep06189/figures/2
It doesn't seem to make a huge difference what amount of methadone you're on... T is low across the board. None of their samples levels hit even 400 ng dl. Although, it doesn't account for someone being stable on one dose and then going down like you are. Not really drawing any conclusions, just thought you might be interested to see it.
And yes, when I had gyno my nipples were really sensitive. Its been a while now but I don't remember it being particularly painful just sensitive. Very sensitive though. The noninvasive medical treatments are either AIs or SERMs. Aromatase inhibitors inhibit the enzyme that turns testosterone into estrogen. Selective estrogen reuptake inhibitors prevent estrogen from binding at receptors at the breast. From what I've gathered reading through different ends of the internet, reacting quickly is key. Most say your best chance is using a really strong AI called letrozole. People say that they have, with high doses that effectively crash your estrogen down to nothing, used letrozole to get rid of or reduce gyno.
I tried it for a long while... like 6 months(I don't think it's recommended to try it that long... you should know if it's working in like a month) maybe. I started within like 2-3 weeks of noticing I had it. Unfortunately, it didn't work for me. It stopped the sensitivity and kept it from getting worse and I still use lower doses of letrozole to this day to control my estrogen but it didn't get rid of it for me. If you feel that it's getting smaller, it may be worth a shot. Letrozole is pretty cheap on the net. It can be had as a research chemical for about $60 for a 30 ml bottle that's 2.5 mg a ml. I think the recommended dose for gyno removal is to ramp up to 2.5 mgs. If you do it, just remember to also taper down and maybe even get a SERM like nolvadex when coming off because you will have an estrogen rebound.
I know I've read that sometimes gyno corrects itself once hormones are corrected but there's a ton of people that get stuck with it. If yours goes away naturally, consider yourself lucky man. I can remember the hours and hours I spent looking in the mirror trying to decide if I had it or not and convince myself I didn't. It really seriously bothered me even though no one else seemed to notice.
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I think you're right. My sister said she doesn't think they will let you donate blood even if you're just on testosterone. She said there's this thing you can do where they draw your blood but just dispose of it. I forgot the name of it though...
Duck: I don't mean to be a dick man but have you read the thread? The answers to your questions are all there... as someone who didnt, I'd strongly suggest you do your own research before starting, even if seeing a doctor. Gynecomastia, hair loss (I'm not 100% but I'm pretty sure this really only affects people that are genetically predisposed to male pattern baldness), and a good chance of your body not being able to restart it's own natural production (even after getting off the test) are probably the biggest side effects imo.
yeah man I have read all the replies and there is good info for which i am very thankful..I guess what Im getting at is has anyone had first hand experience getting of T and having trouble getting their body to create its own? that really sketches me out...i would really hate to have to take another drug to deal with the side effects of a drug im taking for side effects of another drug ya know?
oh, and the gyneco shit is also super sketchy. I really, really don't want titties.
also, i only have catastrophic insurance....is this shit really expensive? Are there good generics available?
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Reddit has a steroid sourcing subreddit. You could get a bottle of test cypionate that would last you a month or more for 40 bucks or less. The dosages are pretty standardized honestly, and you can go a bit by feel. If you want to do it legitimately I would expect to pay as much for the testing as for the doctor, and likely around 150-200 a month for the testosterone. Maybe more, maybe less. I am on an androgel type thing, and the cost is $300 per month if I wasn't insured for a starting dose. At my dose it is more like $450. It is an exploitative medical area, and I think it is because men don't feel like men without the testosterone. If you need it the difference is incredible.
My depression went away, my head is clearer, I have more energy, and my libido is definitely more normal. There are some side effects like smaller testicles, and a distinctive smelling sweat when you are very physically active. Overall though I think it is priceless if you need TRT, and the benefits are enormous quality of life improvements.
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I got off for about a month and a half when I got retested. I actually was off of methadone, benzos, and testosterone but back on dope. That should've been enough time for my body to restart production. My balls were back to normal. My results were still in the 200s. You gotta remember that, when you take exogenous testosterone, you replace what you're making pretty much entirely. It's not what you're making plus the testosterone.
If you were planning on being on methadone for a while, *imo*, it's worth it. There's a drug called clomid that you might wanna look into. Honestly, I dont know too much about it but it's used off label in men to kind of restart your hormones. Body builders use it when coming off cycle. To my understanding, it does work well, but also stops working a lot of times when you stop using it. I think it's a lot more effective if you are on testosterone for a short while but, like I said, I really haven't looked into it too much. I didn't use it when I came off.
The gynecomastia thing is totally controllable. The hard part is, figuring out what dosages you need of aromatase inhibitors because you want to keep some estrogen. I just kinda know what works for me to not get gyno but I have no idea what my estrogen is. I *think* the right way to do it is to basically get on a little bit higher dose than you think you'll need and then taper down as you get bloodwork tests to check estrogen. It's weird, some guys don't need AIs and some do. I guess some are more sensitive to estrogen than others...
Also, one more side effect I don't think anyone has mentioned is that, while on testosterone, you'll be sterile. You'll make semen but not sperm. This will totally reverse itself once you come off.
Lastly, I pay about $60 for a 10 ml bottle of 200 mg per ml of testosterone cypionate or enanthate. They are pretty much all 10 ml and I've seen them come in 200, 250, 300 mg per ml. That should last you a lot longer than 4 weeks. A body builder doses is around 500 mg a week or so but a testosterone replacement dose is 100-200 mgs a week.
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Anyone know if any or some of the testosterone meds and/or testing is covered by medicaid? I think medicaid differs from state to state but it is good to know if they covered it for someone somewhere. Do doctors have to prove or send in paperwork to show that you need it for them to cover it if it isn't covered automatically? Hopefully it is like all my other meds $2 for the doc appt. and $1 for generics and $3 for name brand meds. That is if I do end up needing it, which I am assuming I do.
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medicaid does vary state to state. in general everything is covered with a GP referral, but again the state to state thing.
Strictly an opinion: I would think it would be covered with a referral.
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Guts said-
"testosterone usually ups your red blood cell count and makes your blood really thick"-
This is a big reason to be under a doctors care when administering testosterone-you could have a STROKE.
Be safe everyone.
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Here's some more info about testosterone increasing your red blood cell count:
Clinicians often encounter patients with hypogonadism in association with declining endogenous testosterone production that occurs as men age. This is sometimes referred to as andropause. Signs and symptoms of low testosterone include decreased libido, impotence, decreased body hair, decreased muscle mass, fatigue, and decreased bone mineral density.
Testosterone and other androgens have an erythropoietic stimulating effect that can cause polycythemia, which manifests as an increase in hemoglobin, hematocrit, or red blood cell count. The incidence of polycythemia secondary to testosterone use ranges from 2.5% to 40% depending on the testosterone dose and formulation and is less common with transdermal vs injectable formulations.[2-4] Definitions in men vary, but polycythemia generally occurs when hemoglobin is above 18.5 g/dL or hematocrit is above 52%.
Polycythemia is sometimes called erythrocytosis, but the terms are not synonymous because polycythemia refers to any increase in red blood cells, whereas erythrocytosis only refers to a documented increase of red cell mass. The increase in hemoglobin and hematocrit secondary to testosterone use is usually accompanied by an increase in the red blood cell count, which can lead to an increase in blood viscosity. This increase in blood viscosity can reduce cerebral blood flow which could theoretically be a risk factor for thrombosis and stroke.[3]
Polycythemia is also associated with hypertension due to increased blood viscosity and thrombosis. Severe, chronic polycythemia secondary to increased blood viscosity can raise pulmonary arterial pressure and cause increased pulmonary resistance with potential hypoxia, resulting in cor pulmonale. Thus, increased hemoglobin and hematocrit secondary to testosterone replacement can be significant[4] and in a recent meta-analysis[5] has been cited as the most common side effect of androgen therapy
The patient with polycythemia on physical exam may present with a ruddy (reddish) complexion, easy bruising, fatigue, and epistaxis. Hematocrit and hemoglobin should be measured before starting testosterone replacement to determine the patient's baseline. Clearly, if hematocrit is elevated before starting testosterone, the cause should be determined prior to starting androgen therapy. Practice guidelines from the American Association of Clinical Endocrinologists recommend checking hematocrit every 6 months for the first 18 months after starting testosterone, and then check it yearly thereafter if levels remain normal and stable.[1] Testosterone dosages should be decreased or possibly discontinued if the hematocrit increases to over 50%.[1]
Patients with primary polycythemia sometimes receive therapeutic phlebotomy; however, there are no data to support widespread adoption of this practice in testosterone-induced polycythemia. Although this approach seems plausible and may prove beneficial, there are no guidelines for when and how often to perform phlebotomy in this population.
In conclusion, testosterone replacement therapy sometimes increases hemoglobin and hematocrit with or without an increase the red cell mass. Thus, it is prudent to monitor for polycythemia in patients receiving chronic testosterone replacement therapy. Testosterone dosages should be decreased or possibly discontinued if the hematocrit increases to above 50%. Likewise, clinicians should monitor for the onset of signs and symptoms of polycythemia in these patients, such as ruddy skin, easy bruising, and epistaxis.