dopetalk
Core Topics => In the Media => Topic started by: Z on February 26, 2016, 11:16:29 AM
-
Conscious Stoicism—The New Same Old Face of Masculinity. (http://www.elephantjournal.com/2016/01/conscious-stoicism-the-new-same-old-face-of-masculinity/)
(https://forum.drugs-and-users.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.elephantjournal.com%2Fwp-content%2Fauthors%2FKeith%2520Molyneaux-2367.jpg&hash=19ebf75008b928d662e4873454284c27ea50f09e)Via Keith Artisan (http://www.elephantjournal.com/author/keith-molyneaux/)on Jan 12, 2016
Somehow the modern man is supposed to be able to be a conscious, liberated being of light, a tantric sex master, emotionally available at every moment, and an amazing parent.In addition, for some families, bringing in the proverbial bacon and being the handyman, counselor, protector and beyond. A paragon of service in the community, this kind of man is supposed to always be happy, have the answers, and be strong.The conscious man is expected to be a new kind of superman. It’s objectification mixed with spirituality.When we fall short, as all men do—as all human beings do—superman is dethroned.Nobody loves a fallen hero. The conscious man knows this, and keeps silent, bears his own burdens, sharing little of what is really going on within.
The conscious man still has burdens and challenges and has learned to be silent.The conscious man wakes up to the truth of how our world and society is stacked against us. Knowing full well our own power and capacity, the awake walk alone. Why diminish our power, presence and authority for anyone who is dangerous or unloving. There is no time for people who sap our energies, resources and capacity to serve and love.This is the birth of conscious stoicism.
The old face of stoicism bore the burdens of life in silence. Modern man is just the same as men of every generation. We are told to shut up, sit down, be quiet, and behave. Mostly by the people closest to us, people who say they love us.We become stoic because it’s the only option.Men face increasing insecurities in relationship. Marriage isn’t safe. Raising children is fraught with danger. A man’s life can be destroyed by a womans simple accusation. All of one’s efforts, prosperity and vitality can be taken away by a judge, or a crazy woman.Men are faced with pervasive ideas such as, “All men are predators,” “men only want sex,” “men aren’t capable of emotions,” “don’t cry,” “don’t be sensitive,” and more. We are told to be not-men.And we are supposed to feel good, loving, warm, affectionate on top of those messages. This is paradoxical and the conflicting messages are difficult to navigate. It takes time, a journey some don’t make, and many do.When a man wakes up to their life and who they are, the truth of being conscious still doesn’t fit the image and ideal the common woman holds.
The conscious man is well aware of the fact of how perceptions and ideology remain prisons.As the masculine wakes up to their strength, presence and opportunities the open heart also recognizes how alone one is.The conscious man doesn’t have networks of people who really understands who he is and what he is about. People appreciate the image, the service, the gifts of such an individual. The person remains untouched because people observe the image, the exterior, and miss the interior.This is a deliberate choice for the conscious man. One is fully aware of death, how little time there is, and who to give time and love to. Give no time to fools, only to tribe, family and the beloved.
It is far simpler to operate in solitude and silence than navigate the mindstuff, emotions, denigrations, rejections, arguments and beyond of people who are unloving.The conscious man, skilled in communication, is often misunderstood. People see a man and act with normal programming and assumptions. The person who is contrary simply isn’t worth the time. One day, the body will be gone, why waste time with people who destroy one’s serenity and prosperity in life?The conscious man is aware of how dangerous women are. A harmonious partner can uplift the soul. Unfortunately, women in general aren’t as loving, aware and feminine as the conscious man needs. There are plenty of people who want to have sex. We know boys chase tail, and remain saddened by masculine and feminine immaturity. Modern women are just as lost in relationship as men. Who doesn’t need compassion when it comes to understanding the opposite gender and growing in love?
Firmly rooted in self-knowledge and unable to settle for less than love, the conscious man stays respectful, maintains space, and moves forward graciously. This is non-attachment in action.Secure, safe, sane sensitive and emotionally available women are just as rare in this day of age as men of similar qualities.Women are fortunate in the support they receive from other women. And while there are men’s circles and groups forming, they are few and far between and even the idea is a stretch for many men. The idea of men’s support groups is laughable. Especially in Western society where we see homes for women who need help and absolutely nothing for men.Men are laughed at if they share they have been abused. Men are denigrated when sharing they are hurt or have feelings. It’s better to be silent.Then men are cut down for not feeling. For not being sensitive. Or for being too sensitive. Or for not being spiritual in the right ways. And when we do get around to feeling those repressed emotions, anger is always the first thing to arise.Feeling emotions and expressing them is a vulnerable space.
When we don’t express emotions with skill, the angry man gets judged and abandoned.The aware man knows this truth, and keeps silent. Or they are very careful with whom they share their heart with.The conscious man knows who he is, and recognizes the futility of pleasing society, adapting to fit cultural norms, or striving in any way to please shallow people. We recognize the layers of double standards, for all genders, and operate with compassion. There is no completely safe life-path involving other people.Recognizing one can only pour from a full cup, and not an empty cup, the conscious man has learned self-nurturing.Cultivating his environment, relationship and life is primary. Rest assured, the awake man has identified the traits he wishes to live with for himself, and in the people who are close. He has boundaries, and often unconventional ones. In a moment, the conscious man will assess and know how to move forward.While unusually patient and understanding, this type of man has zero tolerance for drama. There is no time for it, and people who instigate drama are quietly withdrawn from. Who needs stress? The first indications of criticisms, judgmentalism, shaming and put downs is the green light for a conscious man to walk away with peace.Only the people who are really loving, supportive, nurturing and in alignment remain in the life of a conscious man.
For these people, the stoicism drops and the light-heart and soul blossom.Because more than anything, the conscious man knows how vital relationships are for his well-being, and will take steps to nurture the genuine, authentic, loving people in his life.Conscious men are all around. We are silent, powerful, and in motion. We are not on dating sites, at bars, or on Tinder. We are living our lives, in the community, with our families, and on the path. We know how living our truth is where we find like-hearted companions.If you can’t find a conscious man, it isn’t a matter of not looking in the right places.It’s a matter of misplaced priorities and not seeing with a clear mind and heart.And if you are a conscious man, keep it stoic my friend. Keep your heart sacred, trusting only the loving. Remain true, for there are many of us out here. Perhaps our paths will one-day cross.SOURCE: http://www.elephantjournal.com/2016/01/conscious-stoicism-the-new-same-old-face-of-masculinity/ (http://www.elephantjournal.com/2016/01/conscious-stoicism-the-new-same-old-face-of-masculinity/)
THe formatting will probably have a conniption fit, but I don't have time or energy to fix it all right now. Sorry in advance. I don't know what is wrong with all of my news posts lately. I have some opinions on this, but I like to wait before posting them. I don't want discussion threads to be about discussing my opinions, and prefer that it instead develops organically. I'm not the smartest, or the wittiest, or even close to the funniest. I'm waiting for all of you to show how together we are all of those things and so much more!!
EDIT: I added some random pargraph breaks. #RandomBaddAssery @Morfy mgtow for you friend
-
I've seen some backlash against all the women's movements these days, from men. I find it encouraging. We need support from each other, because women don't really understand us. They think they do, but they don't. While just about every man will freely admit he doesn't have a clue about how women are, inside their minds. I don't think they even know. That might be where some of the problems come from.
Marriage and the subsequent divorce ruined me. So, I'm a bit biased toward this type of thinking. Why is it that a woman can unilaterally pull the trigger on a divorce, and demand half of a man's assets? Just because she feels like it, she can ruin a man's life, just like that! (snaps fingers).
Not fair, not fair.
But who said life should be fair? I think it was a woman.
Please don't get me wrong, ladies. I love women. One of my favorite human beings is a woman (hi, mom).
But so many of the female half of our species are beyond fucked up these days, it ain't funny, really it's not.
-
I think that a big part of the problem of marriage and divorce is that our society is progressing faster then the laws can follow. This is being a bit held back by some women who seem to want to benefit from everything and have none of the realistic drawbacks that come with true equality.
As far as what you are talking about, I think that it will take some time for marriage and divorce to represent the reality of the lives we live nowadays. I think that in a situation where the wife sacrificed to stay home and raise the kids, allowing the husband to purse his career and whatever training led up to it, the law as it stands currently is very fair and appropriate. The reality on the other hand, is that the sacrifice is now different then it used to be. There aren't many women who are still in this situation. Frequently nowadays we see couples were they have both pursued their education and careers, and are getting married and having kids later in life. In these situations where the earning potential is similar there needs to be more protection for everyone.
I think that slowly but surely the law will catch up with the reality of our modern lives. The only protection from something like this is to sign a prenup, and we see it being more and more common in even lower income marriages now.
I think that the article really speaks to the unrealistic expectations put on men now. We are supposed to be such a hodgepodge of impossible contradictions that it is inevitable that it all falls down around the individual. It's untenable. Strong but gentle. Stoic but Emotive. It is just so contradictory that there is no way it can all go together in a successful way.
Anyways, I have more to say about that. Still though, I'm really just curious to hear other people's thoughts
-
I think the whole feminist thing can be kinda funny sometimes... you gals want high powered careers and equal pay (which I support) but still want us to hold the door open for yah...
-
If ever there was a thread for the men's forum
which we have btw, and which people in this thread were in favor of
Anyways I agree that modern man has a ridiculous set of expectations placed on them
in addition to the "common knowledge" all men are sexual deviants at heart,
predators incapable of experiencing emotion, empathy, love on the same level as women
Maybe thats true, but like anything, it would only be true for some
and conversely the exact opposite of thwt would be true as well
Hopefully we can move past the need to identify by gender in my lifetime
It just always seemed so... lazy? to me
why not identify to society and other people through subcultures you choose yourself?
Like, say, drugs?
;D
That being said, I am very sadly a "stoic" man in real life
as opposed to here, where I openly discuss inserting things in my butt to get high
that being said, if I meet the right person (woman) I will open up completely and shamelessly
Fuck a marriage, and I hold the door open for everyone
the problem I think most men are perceiving is that women fought for, and got, too much too fast in the 70s
Which is basically how everyone who was on the other side of an issue perceived the situation
that is to say that they had to give up too much too quick
so much and so fast they actually had to notice a cultural shift
omg how do we survive?
-
Thetalkingasshole: I'm not sure if that last paragraph was directed entirely at me but all I meant is that it seems like a lot of women would like to keep the good parts of chivalry as well as have all of the upsides of equality. Just saying it's a bit contradictory. It's really not a huge complaint from me or anything... just find it a bit amusing is all. And I'm all for minorities and oppressed groups fighting for their rights.
-
I actually did almost put this in the men's forum. Two things stopped me:
1. It's an empty wasteland that nobody visits. Maybe if there was no password people would be more aware of what is posted there.
2. I think that a woman's impression on the current status of what is expected of a modern man would be very informative. Just because the article talks about gender doesn't mean that the discussion should be between men only. The way that women see men, and the expectations that they put on them is actually very fascinating. Especially if we look at it through the light of the expectations that men put on women. Comparing and contrasting the two sets of expectations would be very interesting.
-
Technology and social change is moving faster and faster-not always in a positive direction.
-
Wow, just ....wow.
-
Oh shit. We're busted... party's over.
Ummmm... Yes, St. T, dear? We were just um, talkin about "guy stuff." Nothing really.
I feel like I was with a bunch of men in a room, talking about some of our "issues" and the door cracks open at first, then opens all the way, and it's a woman standing there, going, "really? Oh really? Really really really? That's how you feel?"
-
I think the whole feminist thing can be kinda funny sometimes... you gals want high powered careers and equal pay (which I support) but still want us to hold the door open for yah...
There is a middle ground you know. I mean it's just nice to hold the door for a lady, but I don't think she should be drafted and sent into combat. I think a woman could make a good president of the United States someday (present candidate aside). But a man will never replace a mother, nor a woman a father.
There are some things men are just made to do and women are made to do too.
Insofar as intelligence goes, there are many women smarter than many men, and many men smarter than many women. In other words, there is a bell curve with stupid people and smart people on it, and it's an equal opportunity thing. You got dumb women, smart women, smart men, dumb men.
You can't just ignore a million years of evolution in 50 years.
-
All Theresa said was "Wow." You filled in the rest of your interpretation on the situation, Zoops, and made a lot of assumptions on what she really meant.
It saddens me that people see life as men vs. women, like it's a zero sum game. I hope that as society progresses and gender roles become less important and human beings start to achieve true gender equality, people will see it doesn't have to be men vs women at all, traditional gender roles hurt both men and women.
I can definitely sympathize with how hard it is to be a modern man. In fact, feminism has a very accurate term for this-toxic masculinity. It's shitty that men are taught that they have to "be strong" all the time, and are discouraged from talking about their problems and processing their emotional world in a healthy way. It sucks that men still feel the pressure to be breadwinners and providers in an increasingly difficult job market, and the fact that women have entered the workforce definitely complicates things. It sucks that men are more likely to commit suicide, and more likely to be homeless than women. It sucks that people don't take sexual assault on men seriously. I won't even go into dating/marriage/divorce laws. These days, it's typical for both partners to work, yet women are still expected to do most of the childbearing/childrearing/housework-but then the perception that women are natural mothers also gives them a leg up in getting the kids/house in the divorce.
At the end of the day, remember that just because a man or a woman wronged you badly, does not mean the entire gender wronged you. Just because men or women tend to be a certain way in the area where you grew up/currently live, does not mean men or women everywhere at like that. There are 3.5 billion unique men and women on the planet. Let's all try to remember that. Gender roles sand expectations are changing so fast, most individuals are just struggling to keep up. I dunno why holding the door open for a woman or not is even an issue-I hold the door open for people all the time-and I don't expect anyone to hold the door open for me, but I'll be kind and appreciative if they do. No need to overthink things.
-
Holding the door open was meant as a metaphor for chivalry and the way men are "supposed" to treat women...
-
Can't people just hold a door open for other people?
And yeah, zoops, TotP just laid it out.
And zoops.."
Marriage and the subsequent divorce ruined me. So, I'm a bit biased toward this type of thinking. Why is it that a woman can unilaterally pull the trigger on a divorce, and demand half of a man's assets? Just because she feels like it, she can ruin a man's life, just like that! (snaps fingers)."
I'm Guessing you were a perfect husband and mate? Correct?
Granted I don't know what happened in your marriage but I bet she felt pretty fucking ruined too.
-
Yeah I'm going to bow out while I'm ahead... all yours Zoops ;D
-
This will hopefully stay civil
Zoops I love you but tread lightly
I assume because you described divorce that you were not entirely for that in your own case
Lets try and remember everyone here has been the only person to live their life.
-
I have to admit I was pretty ugly towards my ex-husband when our marriage started to crumble.
Although he made things difficult himself, I did not treat him with much respect or regard at all.
But when it came to our divorce, I was not about to kick him when he was down. He did not want the divorce, it was my choice.
I was the main breadwinner in our family and my ex did not make very much money at all. He was forced to get roommates in the home he moved into with his son.
I went for joint custody and both of us agreed to no child support on either side and open visitation.
I felt it was the easiest way for us to both come of the end of our marriage without too many hard feelings. There was already enough emotional turmoil, without court orders and mandated visiting hours.
It has worked out OK.
I know this may sound strange, but I don't feel that all men should be required to pay child support.
If my ex would of been required to pay child support, there would of been no way he could have paid all his bills each month and purchase food.
He had to borrow money from my parents a few times because things had been so difficult for him and my parents felt sorry for him.
I myself gave him money from time to time. I really didn't mind. He was the father of my child and did not bring up my drug use in court or use it to get custody.
I am so very thankful that he did not try to fuck me over in court. He knew I had a problem and would never harm our child.
Plus, he was always there for me when I needed someone, even after our divorce.
Sorry for the long message. I do think that society is changing and the way we behave towards one another has certainly changed.
I see it all the time, people too rushed to hold open a door, driving like an asshole because they are in a rush, rudely talking loudly on their phone in a public place. All rude behavior and certainly not gender based.
Yes, I think it is really nice when a man holds the door, but I also feel that there is no reason a woman cannot do the same for a man or another woman as well.
-
I didn't like the article simply because I know how I am, and I am anything but a man who embraces traditional masculinity and its stereotypes.
I would literally rather die than be forced to live my life as a stereotypical man. Never wanted it. Never appealed to me. Still doesn't. Never will.
I don't think men and women are all that different. We all have emotions, feelings, wants and needs. I think people will always vary, as on a bell curve as Zoops mentioned.
But I think most of the supposed "differences" between men and women have been handed down, generation after generation, as learned and expected behaviors.
It's human nature to emulate what we see, especially when young. I think it would be interesting to raise several male and female children in genderless vacuums.
There would be no male or female gender roles, expectations, or activities. The children would simply grow according to their own desires and inclinations.
I'd be interested in knowing how similar or dissimilar the fully developed children behaved as adults, compared to adults who had been raised outside those conditions in the world we all know.
In the end I think the most important thing is for men and women to be themselves, living as they truly are, without the controls and influences of extraneous people, cultures, societal conventions, etc.
If some people truly end up wanting to conform to gender roles and stereotypes, so be it.
But I don't think those people should try to instill those roles in others, or expect others to conform to their definition of how men and women act and behave.
γνῶθι σεαυτόν / nosce te ipsum / know yourself, then live that way authentically each day, ever mindful that your self identify isn't usually going to be reflected in others, nor should it be.
-
Exactly, Candy.
No, St. T. I was not a model husband. She was far from a model wife.
But I was a good father, and brought home like twice as much as my ex did. I provided for the family quite well. She definitely kicked me when I was down. She still insisted, in court, with her lawyer whispering in her ear, that I pay $1200/mo in child support (for one child) while I was in jail! Luckily the judge didn't go for that. But when I got out, it went back up to $1200/mo, which was fine as long as I was still making boucoups money, but then I got locked up again, and the amount Didn't get lowered again! It stacked up like that for more than a year 1200 a month, because she wouldn't cooperate with the attorney that I had paid to try and straighten it out! Now, I'm paying $300 a month and I plan on contacting her soon (which will have been after a couple months of payments again), to ask her if she can find it in her heart to somehow mitigate the payments.
I'm planning on getting a surprised "oh I didn't know you were paying it again, thanks." reply from her. Because she and her new hubby have so much money, and I have basically NONE, it makes no difference to my son if she gets that extra $300 a month, because his life is fine. I'd feel completely differently about it if she was actually having trouble feeding him or something like that, but she's not, far from it. I could use that $300 a month. Now I have about $13k in back child support that it won't be easy to pay off, because at the rate I'm paying now, I'm covering the monthly obligation, but I'm actually getting further into the hole with the interest on the arrears, paying $300 a month. If that obligation were to cease, I'd be paying $300 a month towards the arrears, and it would be paid off in like 5 or 6 years. She'd still be getting payments for 5 or 6 years from now if the obligation stopped. I'm not looking forward to that conversation. Nervous about it.