dopetalk
Core Topics => Substance Usage, Management, User Experiences etc. => Topic started by: Riddick on August 26, 2015, 01:06:12 AM
-
I know a lot of people think its nasty but if you get a chance definitely give it a try. Better than liquor or grape juice or anything else I've ever tried. Just dont nod off with it in your mouth.
-
I usually smoke cigarettes but I don't mind a lipper every now and then. I usually prefer the pouches though because normal chewing 'backy is strong as fuck, even for a pack-a-day smoker. Also, the pouches keep your teeth a bit cleaner which is nice. I remember hearing somewhere that tobacco actually changes the way opiates effect the brain which is why it potentiates the high so well. However, I just did a quick google-foo and found an article that states tobacco and opiates effect the brain in a very similar fashion which could also be why they go so well together.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/02/080212171131.htm
-
I know someone who absolutely swears that chewing nicotine gum with her hydro makes a huge difference. It sounded pretty goofy to me when I first heard that, but there's data out there to back this up; years ago Jacky posted some stuff about nicotine being an opi potentiator.
Personally I can't tolerate nicotine anymore, so I'm not itchin' to try this, but I tend to believe this account that I've heard, even tho it does sound a little goofy (this particular account is really small doses of hydro)..
-
I know someone who absolutely swears that chewing nicotine gum with her hydro makes a huge difference. It sounded pretty goofy to me when I first heard that, but there's data out there to back this up; years ago Jacky posted some stuff about nicotine being an opi potentiator.
Personally I can't tolerate nicotine anymore, so I'm not itchin' to try this, but I tend to believe this account that I've heard, even tho it does sound a little goofy (this particular account is really small doses of hydro)..
Nicotine, in any form, is definitely a great potentiator for dope. Doesn't matter if it's cigarettes, nicotine gum (which I actually love, especially for long flights), or chew.
-
I second the nicotine combo with opis....good synergy.
I guess if nicotine makes you nauseous, it should be avoided.
-
Is that why my buddy is always slobbering on himself and I'm sittin there like wtf bc I'm fine when we get high together? He is a heavy smoker (gross) but I've always been curious/envious about that...kinda makes sense especially if Jackie was talking about that. Mad respect.
-
Is that why my buddy is always slobbering on himself and I'm sittin there like wtf bc I'm fine when we get high together? He is a heavy smoker (gross) but I've always been curious/envious about that...kinda makes sense especially if Jackie was talking about that. Mad respect.
If I start to drop off I can put a dip in and start nodding of again. So that could be it. Unless you guys share like i inferred, then he could just be taking more.Cigarettes dont hit me near like how a schwag does.
-
I have dipped that last 10 years and did opiates the last 6-7 years and I can't do opiates without putting a dip in now that I am on methadone I fall asleep with a dip in atlas 5 nights a week. I sure do love my grizzly mint when it comes to every time I use opiates. Having a breathalyzer in my car has driven me mad because I can't dip while driving and I have to wait 10 minutes after taking one out before I can drive and it has really put a damper on my life as of late.
Griffin
-
chewing tobacco is not legal or available in Aus.
but i have always wondered - what does it taste like ?
-
I definitely think nicotine enhances and potentiates opiates. They just mesh well together. I think it works with other downers too, like benzos. That's been my experience at least.
As for chewing tobacco, only did it once. A long time ago when I was in rehab in Kansas. Lots of the male patients there used chewing tobacco. One of them told me how great it was, how I'd get that nicotine buzz again (that I no longer got from cigs). I tried it. Didn't like it. Didn't get any significant nicotine buzz. Had a nasty taste in my mouth afterwards. Didn't like the spitting thing either. To each their own I guess.
Vaping works really well in this situation I think. Just don't drop the mod when you're good and sedated. :-[
-
chewing tobacco is not legal or available in Aus.
but i have always wondered - what does it taste like ?
Are cigarettes there legal? If so why would chewing tobacco be illegal, In some ways it is safer because it doesn't effect as much of your body organs, obviously nicotine causes cancer but I don't see why they would say no to using the same thing in a different form.
Griffin
-
chewing tobacco is not legal or available in Aus.
but i have always wondered - what does it taste like ?
Are cigarettes there legal? If so why would chewing tobacco be illegal, In some ways it is safer because it doesn't effect as much of your body organs, obviously nicotine causes cancer but I don't see why they would say no to using the same thing in a different form.
Griffin
yeah cigarettes are very expensive but legal and less so, e-cigs/vaping.
weird laws WRT nicotine - i don't know the logic behind it; ban cigarettes but not the other products, if anything.
-
I've never seen chewing tobacco in the UK either. I'm not sure whether that's because it's illegal or unpopular. Our smoking laws are quite on top now compared with my youth and cigarettes have always been expensive here because of the tax. A pack of 20 cigarettes is almost as expensive as a bag of heroin hence the fact I (like many others smoke black market roll ups.
Sorry gone off at a bit of a tangent.
As for nicotine potentiating opiates. I don't know but I do always seem to smoke a lot if the gear is good. Maybe it's a subconscious thing and my brain is saying smoke more you'll get more wrecked.
-
I've never seen chewing tobacco in the UK either. I'm not sure whether that's because it's illegal or unpopular. Our smoking laws are quite on top now compared with my youth and cigarettes have always been expensive here because of the tax. A pack of 20 cigarettes is almost as expensive as a bag of heroin hence the fact I (like many others smoke black market roll ups.
Sorry gone off at a bit of a tangent.
As for nicotine potentiating opiates. I don't know but I do always seem to smoke a lot if the gear is good. Maybe it's a subconscious thing and my brain is saying smoke more you'll get more wrecked.
Now I'm really curious. When I quit smoking cigs (too briefly-for me it's ridiculously hard despite knowing how bad it is), my PM dr said something like "and you're meds are working better now too, right?" when we were talking about the positives.
It's been years since I researched this: does anyone have info on this? I'm just looking for sort of a "How nicotine affects drugs in the body for Dummies" kind of thing lol. I know it DOES, just can't recall HOW.
-
Now I'm really curious. When I quit smoking cigs (too briefly-for me it's ridiculously hard despite knowing how bad it is), my PM dr said something like "and you're meds are working better now too, right?" when we were talking about the positives.
It's been years since I researched this: does anyone have info on this? I'm just looking for sort of a "How nicotine affects drugs in the body for Dummies" kind of thing lol. I know it DOES, just can't recall HOW.
Check out my post towards the top of this thread (second post in this thread). I posted a link to an article about how nicotine effects the brain.
-
Now I'm really curious. When I quit smoking cigs (too briefly-for me it's ridiculously hard despite knowing how bad it is), my PM dr said something like "and you're meds are working better now too, right?" when we were talking about the positives.
It's been years since I researched this: does anyone have info on this? I'm just looking for sort of a "How nicotine affects drugs in the body for Dummies" kind of thing lol. I know it DOES, just can't recall HOW.
Check out my post towards the top of this thread (second post in this thread). I posted a link to an article about how nicotine effects the brain.
Thanks Bhoris, I just re-read it. My apologies for not being more clear. Was up super late (freakin insomnia) & while the article discusses dopamine & the reward center in the brain, I'm curious about the the question of how nicotine affects (enhances or decreases) drugs. Whether the drugs are used for pleasure or as w/me, for CP.
I know doctors hate smoking due to the systemic problems--circulatory, pulmonary, tissue repair etc. I'm trying to get a handle on HOW nicotine affects the efficacy of drugs.
Does smoking actually enhance my meds OR is it so hard to quit because I already have a fast metabolism & the instant bit of "comfort" I feel is filling the gap and cigs are actually interfering with me getting the most out of my meds?
Apologies again, I hope my question makes more sense now.
-
chewing tobacco is not legal or available in Aus.
but i have always wondered - what does it taste like ?
Its kind of hard to describe. Theres the taste of the flavor you get, which range from mint to peach. When you spit it out its pretty much just a nasty taste till you get used to it.
-
Thanks Bhoris, I just re-read it. My apologies for not being more clear. Was up super late (freakin insomnia) & while the article discusses dopamine & the reward center in the brain, I'm curious about the the question of how nicotine affects (enhances or decreases) drugs. Whether the drugs are used for pleasure or as w/me, for CP.
I know doctors hate smoking due to the systemic problems--circulatory, pulmonary, tissue repair etc. I'm trying to get a handle on HOW nicotine affects the efficacy of drugs.
Does smoking actually enhance my meds OR is it so hard to quit because I already have a fast metabolism & the instant bit of "comfort" I feel is filling the gap and cigs are actually interfering with me getting the most out of my meds?
Apologies again, I hope my question makes more sense now.
Ahhh, yes, that's much clearer. Thank you! It seems as though it's something with the nicotine that effects the drugs efficacy, not necessarily smoking it. I would assume chewing tobacco or nicotine gum would have similar effects on the drugs as smoking cigarettes would. How it effects the drugs, I'm not totally sure but I'll do some research.
-
Thanks much Bhoris! Though I'm an RN, it's been awhile since I've had to go deep into the pharm/research pool. If I'm being honest, I feel very embarrassed to be a smoker and have a lot of guilt for the long term problems I'm creating for myself.
On the other hand (which *wants* that damn cig to never be gone), it is a very real comfort and temporary reprieve when the pain shoots up or I'm stressed. That perceived "need" part of my brain/character, whatev? I don't like it :(
-
chewing tobacco is not legal or available in Aus.
but i have always wondered - what does it taste like ?
Are cigarettes there legal? If so why would chewing tobacco be illegal, In some ways it is safer because it doesn't effect as much of your body organs, obviously nicotine causes cancer but I don't see why they would say no to using the same thing in a different form.
Griffin
yeah cigarettes are very expensive but legal and less so, e-cigs/vaping.
weird laws WRT nicotine - i don't know the logic behind it; ban cigarettes but not the other products, if anything.
That seemv very odd to me that chew and dip is illegal there but cigs are not. Is there a black market scene for cheap cigarettes there? I guess my fantasy trip to your side of the world will have to be made at a time were I am not dipping because that might drive me crazy. I hate that I chew my gums and lips till they bleed when i don't dip the oral fixation is the worst part of stopping dipping. That and dipping dreams where I spit all over my pillow. The united states house of congress used to have spittoons at all the seats of the place they convened in the 1800s.
As for taste I started out dipping wintergreen flavor and now I dip the mint flavor. I think it tastes good each brands flavors taste different and I prefer the grizzly brand plus its cheaper than some. The company that makes the skoal brand has some that taste like candy I have a lot of friends who started in high school on those.
Griffin
-
chewing tobacco is not legal or available in Aus.
but i have always wondered - what does it taste like ?
Are cigarettes there legal? If so why would chewing tobacco be illegal, In some ways it is safer because it doesn't effect as much of your body organs, obviously nicotine causes cancer but I don't see why they would say no to using the same thing in a different form.
Griffin
yeah cigarettes are very expensive but legal and less so, e-cigs/vaping.
weird laws WRT nicotine - i don't know the logic behind it; ban cigarettes but not the other products, if anything.
That seemv very odd to me that chew and dip is illegal there but cigs are not. Is there a black market scene for cheap cigarettes there? I guess my fantasy trip to your side of the world will have to be made at a time were I am not dipping because that might drive me crazy. I hate that I chew my gums and lips till they bleed when i don't dip the oral fixation is the worst part of stopping dipping. That and dipping dreams where I spit all over my pillow. The united states house of congress used to have spittoons at all the seats of the place they convened in the 1800s.
As for taste I started out dipping wintergreen flavor and now I dip the mint flavor. I think it tastes good each brands flavors taste different and I prefer the grizzly brand plus its cheaper than some. The company that makes the skoal brand has some that taste like candy I have a lot of friends who started in high school on those.
Griffin
What you tryin to say bro? I aint as much of a man cause I do skoal? I used to be on grizz, im on skoal now cause Im getting back into it after bout a year off.
-
I quit a decade+ cigarette habit and haven't had one in over a year. Vaping didn't help me at all but nicotine gum worked and got me off the cancer sticks. I smoked the most during my first two years in the military because that is not only part of the culture for grunts but the only good chemical stress reliever one can reliably turn to during deployments.
I do occasionally miss the ritualistic lighting of a camel turkish royal whenever the oxy or hydro buzz kicks in. Shit potentiated the fuck out of oral opioids IME.
-
Sorry for the double post guys delete this when you get a chance.
Thanks :)
Griffin
-
chewing tobacco is not legal or available in Aus.
but i have always wondered - what does it taste like ?
That seems very odd to me that chew and dip is illegal there but cigs are not. Is there a black market scene for cheap cigarettes there? I guess my fantasy trip to your side of the world will have to be made at a time were I am not dipping because that might drive me crazy. I hate that I chew my gums and lips till they bleed when i don't dip the oral fixation is the worst part of stopping dipping. That and dipping dreams where I spit all over my pillow. The united states house of congress used to have spittoons at all the seats of the place they convened in the 1800s.
As for taste I started out dipping wintergreen flavor and now I dip the mint flavor. I think it tastes good each brands flavors taste different and I prefer the grizzly brand plus its cheaper than some. The company that makes the skoal brand has some that taste like candy I have a lot of friends who started in high school on those.
Griffin
What you tryin to say bro? I aint as much of a man cause I do skoal? I used to be on grizz, im on skoal now cause Im getting back into it after bout a year off.
Not at all lol, I was implying that they were targeting the younger age groups with flavors like citrus, berry blend, and the apple one. Because they are very sugary and have candy like tastes. A lot of my friends that dip only would do those flavors because they are so sweet and a lot taste like candy. My dad dipped skoal for 15 years when I was growing up before switching, I dipped it for a while as well. Some of those flavors do taste very good when I was living with a friend who did the skoal citrus I was dipping a can a day of it because it taste so good and the flavor didn't last too long so I would go through it quick. I think most companies make flavors like that now anyway so it definitely doesn't matter what brand or flavor you use as it is personal preference. It definitely has no correlation of how manly you are, anyone who knows me knows I am not the macho type in any way shape or form. I think what makes people more manly is the way they conduct themselves such as putting people before themselves and doing things for the greater good instead of the person who can kick any ones ass. I take shit all the time for being on grizzly from my friends cause a lot people started on that and its cheap. They think unless you dip skoal straight or natural or copenhagen you are a sissy and it makes me laugh. I didn't mean any offense to anyone I was just saying they have all kinds of flavors and that they like the cigarette companies did a long time ago tried things to target younger age groups with some flavors. Sorry to have offended you I should of stated my first post more clearly.
Griffin
Reason I edited was I did the quoting thing wrong
-
I'm quite intrigued about this whole chewing tobacco thing because as far as I know we don't have it over here.
How popular is it?
-
I played basketball my entire life but also started smoking cigarettes and partying at age of 14. After going to a conditioning I knew i had to give up the cigs. So i switched over to grizzly wintergreen and then tbe pouches since theyve been out. Like 7-8 yrs now. And havent been able to kick it. I only smoke cigarettes when drinking or when i was getting high I would aswell. I never really noticed any potentiation
What I definitely did notice was when I was extremely high, dip would make me very nauseous and even throw up on more than one occasion. Ive gotta couple pouches in as we speak. Hopefully I can kick the habit someday.
-
I know smoking tobacco can lead to what's called "enzyme induction," which means that the tars in cigarette smoke cause the liver to express more of the oxidative enzymes needed to break down foreign substances in the body (in the case of smoking, it would be to oxidize the nasty tarry substances in cig smoke). When you have more of the oxidative enzymes "floating around" in your liver, you're going to be able to metabolize some drugs more quickly.
So smoking can lead to decreased effectiveness of some drugs. As for chewing, I think you might get the same if not more pronounced enzyme induction effect because it still contains the same stuff as tobacco which is smoked. Because the burning/smoking process doesn't create the tars - they are the natural plant resins already in the leaf.
But nicotine as a potentiator, that's a whole 'nother ball of wax. Certainly does enhance the effect of opiates for me. When I light up a cig after getting a satisfying hit of opiated goodness, it "ties the whole room together" in an expensive hand made oriental rug type of way. So I guess yes? Is that correct?
-
I know smoking tobacco can lead to what's called "enzyme induction," which means that the tars in cigarette smoke cause the liver to express more of the oxidative enzymes needed to break down foreign substances in the body (in the case of smoking, it would be to oxidize the nasty tarry substances in cig smoke). When you have more of the oxidative enzymes "floating around" in your liver, you're going to be able to metabolize some drugs more quickly.
So smoking can lead to decreased effectiveness of some drugs. As for chewing, I think you might get the same if not more pronounced enzyme induction effect because it still contains the same stuff as tobacco which is smoked. Because the burning/smoking process doesn't create the tars - they are the natural plant resins already in the leaf.
But nicotine as a potentiator, that's a whole 'nother ball of wax. Certainly does enhance the effect of opiates for me. When I light up a cig after getting a satisfying hit of opiated goodness, it "ties the whole room together" in an expensive hand made oriental rug type of way. So I guess yes? Is that correct?
Ahhhh the lightbulb just came on. I get it now. Thanks Zoops!
-
I have dipped that last 10 years and did opiates the last 6-7 years and I can't do opiates without putting a dip in now that I am on methadone I fall asleep with a dip in atlas 5 nights a week. I sure do love my grizzly mint when it comes to every time I use opiates. Having a breathalyzer in my car has driven me mad because I can't dip while driving and I have to wait 10 minutes after taking one out before I can drive and it has really put a damper on my life as of late.
Griffin
Griffin the breathalyzer detects nicotine? I thought it detected liquor only. Strange that you can't smoke/chew while driving.
-
No it doesn't detect nicotine or give a false positive for alcohol or anything like that.
It's just kind of difficult to blow as hard as you have to into the tube with a bunch of spit and dip in your mouth, and it tells you to blow at random intervals every 10 minutes - or so. Or can you set your watch by it - is it exactly every 10 or 15 minutes or whatever you said it was?
AmIright?
-
chewing tobacco is not legal or available in Aus.
but i have always wondered - what does it taste like ?
That seems very odd to me that chew and dip is illegal there but cigs are not. Is there a black market scene for cheap cigarettes there? I guess my fantasy trip to your side of the world will have to be made at a time were I am not dipping because that might drive me crazy. I hate that I chew my gums and lips till they bleed when i don't dip the oral fixation is the worst part of stopping dipping. That and dipping dreams where I spit all over my pillow. The united states house of congress used to have spittoons at all the seats of the place they convened in the 1800s.
As for taste I started out dipping wintergreen flavor and now I dip the mint flavor. I think it tastes good each brands flavors taste different and I prefer the grizzly brand plus its cheaper than some. The company that makes the skoal brand has some that taste like candy I have a lot of friends who started in high school on those.
Griffin
What you tryin to say bro? I aint as much of a man cause I do skoal? I used to be on grizz, im on skoal now cause Im getting back into it after bout a year off.
Not at all lol, I was implying that they were targeting the younger age groups with flavors like citrus, berry blend, and the apple one. Because they are very sugary and have candy like tastes. A lot of my friends that dip only would do those flavors because they are so sweet and a lot taste like candy. My dad dipped skoal for 15 years when I was growing up before switching, I dipped it for a while as well. Some of those flavors do taste very good when I was living with a friend who did the skoal citrus I was dipping a can a day of it because it taste so good and the flavor didn't last too long so I would go through it quick. I think most companies make flavors like that now anyway so it definitely doesn't matter what brand or flavor you use as it is personal preference. It definitely has no correlation of how manly you are, anyone who knows me knows I am not the macho type in any way shape or form. I think what makes people more manly is the way they conduct themselves such as putting people before themselves and doing things for the greater good instead of the person who can kick any ones ass. I take shit all the time for being on grizzly from my friends cause a lot people started on that and its cheap. They think unless you dip skoal straight or natural or copenhagen you are a sissy and it makes me laugh. I didn't mean any offense to anyone I was just saying they have all kinds of flavors and that they like the cigarette companies did a long time ago tried things to target younger age groups with some flavors. Sorry to have offended you I should of stated my first post more clearly.
Griffin
Reason I edited was I did the quoting thing wrong
Were boys now Griffin. I wonder why they say not chewing skoal is sissy though. Does grizzly not have more nicotine? I thought coppenhagen and grizz were top two in terms of nicotine amount.
-
I know smoking tobacco can lead to what's called "enzyme induction," which means that the tars in cigarette smoke cause the liver to express more of the oxidative enzymes needed to break down foreign substances in the body (in the case of smoking, it would be to oxidize the nasty tarry substances in cig smoke). When you have more of the oxidative enzymes "floating around" in your liver, you're going to be able to metabolize some drugs more quickly.
So smoking can lead to decreased effectiveness of some drugs. As for chewing, I think you might get the same if not more pronounced enzyme induction effect because it still contains the same stuff as tobacco which is smoked. Because the burning/smoking process doesn't create the tars - they are the natural plant resins already in the leaf.
But nicotine as a potentiator, that's a whole 'nother ball of wax. Certainly does enhance the effect of opiates for me. When I light up a cig after getting a satisfying hit of opiated goodness, it "ties the whole room together" in an expensive hand made oriental rug type of way. So I guess yes? Is that correct?
I love reading shit like that zoops. Thumbs up.
-
I have no idea I think its more of the flavor than the brand. People in oklahoma only give you shit if you chew the citrusy flavors or the cheapest cans of dip which when I was poor I would buy the cheapest can they had i didn't care if it was longhorn or what. Sorry for the confusion in my earlier post riddick I didn't mean it to sound derogatory to anyone i was just trying to explain what my peers growing up in oklahoma who dipped would say about things. They never though dipping skoal was sissy they just thought dipping citrus or berry blend was. but that was high school they would find anything they could to make fun of other people from what brand of clothes they had on to what kind of pop they drank. I am glad to see that i am not the only one who dips everyone I know here thinks its disgusting and is only for rednecks which I think is funny
Griffin
Griffin.
-
If its not been mentioned yet, nicotine activates both the sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous systems.
They usually balance in a yin yang fashion, but both have nicotinic acetylcholine receptors at the post synaptic ganglion.
Some ppl say quitting nicotine is tougher than opiates, one can see that this is possible.
-
I have no idea I think its more of the flavor than the brand. People in oklahoma only give you shit if you chew the citrusy flavors or the cheapest cans of dip which when I was poor I would buy the cheapest can they had i didn't care if it was longhorn or what. Sorry for the confusion in my earlier post riddick I didn't mean it to sound derogatory to anyone i was just trying to explain what my peers growing up in oklahoma who dipped would say about things. They never though dipping skoal was sissy they just thought dipping citrus or berry blend was. but that was high school they would find anything they could to make fun of other people from what brand of clothes they had on to what kind of pop they drank. I am glad to see that i am not the only one who dips everyone I know here thinks its disgusting and is only for rednecks which I think is funny
Griffin
Griffin.
If my rednecks you mean ballers than ya