dopetalk
Core Topics => Treatment, Recovery and Rehabilitation => Topic started by: CARNi on March 07, 2017, 03:58:53 AM
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I'm asking for a bit of advice(rather serious/important to me) from the local fam here. It is regarding methadone however I'm sure it's not in the correct subject thread. So I apologize in advance, feel free to move it if needed.
Ok,so, I have been going through it lately, rough patch in life to say the least. I have been on sub maintenance for quite awhile but just a few months ago I stopped. It was no longer helping the cravings, like at all. I started using again very rarely, but enough to get in trouble. Lots a trouble. Fast forward a bit to now. I know I am going to use, I already resigned myself to it knowing I won't be able to beat the cravings. Pills won't do it, only the H. I am not having withdrawals but surely I will be after I start using, SOON.
My question is this, I am unfamiliar with methadone other than what I read here. No hands on knowledge or previous use. Is it a good idea for me to get on it just to keep the cravings away. At this point I'm not worried about length of time or cost, etc... I just wanna keep the demon Home wrecking H away and hopefully get back on a productive life path. I'm dealing with the law, family, job, all the goodies here. Just wondering if anyone has any incite to this predicament I put myself in. And thanks to anyone willing to give me their two cents! Don't hold back please!!
-CARNi-
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@CARNi what do you feel the harm would be in trying it?
I also want to recommend the 12 steps as well. Definitely not for everyone but those that it does work for, it works very well.
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Sorry to hear you are struggling! Long, long before I ever was on methadone, I was on Subs multiple times. For me, they never took away all the withdrawal symptoms and NEVER touched the cravings. I know for some people, subs just don't do it.
You will probably get a lot of different answers so you will have to do what you think is best. While some people think methadone and methadone clinics are the devil, I have found it to be a vital tool to take my life back.
I honestly believe you know yourself best and if you know that you are going down the heroin hell highway, it would be a smart move to get off now and try to mitigate some of the consequences that are coming down the pike. Once our addiction gets so out of hand that every bit of our life is affected, it is time to look for a better way.
Methadone isn't for everyone. In the beginning, reporting 6 or 7 days a week to get your medicine might seem like a hassle. But, you have to weigh it against other things like how much time are you spending thinking, craving, copping and using drugs? How much money are you spending? How much trouble are you in, not only with the law, but with the people in your life you care about? How about dealing with the constant anxiety of will I use? I don't wanna' use...fuck it..I'm gonna' use! What about the constant craving and chatter in your head that doesn't allow you to focus on anything else? When I weighed all those factors, a half hour or so out of my day didn't seem like such a big deal. I got takehomes as quickly as they give them out, so after a few months, I was only going three times a week. Then soon it was once a week. It became just a part of my routine.
I know some people view methadone as "liquid handcuffs", but those are the people who three years later are still fucking around and have to go every day. Honestly, even if I still had to go every day, I would. Methadone stops my body and mind from screaming for dope 24 hours a day. Not that I do not still have weak moments, but it allows me to stop for a minute and make better choices.
Some people feel it should only be for bottom of the barrel addicts, but I don't think you should wait until your life is a total pile of shit before you get treatment. You seem to know yourself really well and you know that this is only going to go down hill in speectacular fashion!
You have nothing to lose by trying it! If you start and decide it isn't for you, the dope will still be there! If subs aren't doing it for you, a full agonist like methadone may be what your body chemistry needs.
Methadone can make putting your life back together a little bit easier. If it wasn't for methadone, I would have lost everything...including my daughter and my life! Methadone has given me a chance to get all of my crap sorted out. Without methadone, my life crumbles fast and furious. I think taking medicine once a day to feel good and have a good life is a small price to pay!
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I split this off from the other thread at carni's request. I can change the subject if you want too.
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First off, let me ask a question as I am a bit confused. Are you a carni? From the posts I've read of yours, it sounds as though you are. I could be wrong though and that you used to be but are not currently in the carnival business. On top of that, I am a little unsure of what a carni actually is. All I know about it comes from books and movies. My picture of a carni is someone who works for a carnival and travels around the country.
If this is indeed true, that you travel around the country for work...MMT would be very hard with the constant travel.
If you do not have to worry about travel, here's what I have to say about methadone. I swore I'd never get on it, but at a very low point in my life I did end up doing MMT. Five years later, I was still on methadone and had been wanting to get off for a long time. I had gotten to the point where I only had to go in twice a month, so I didn't want to get off because of the "hassle" of MMT. I wanted to get off because methadone caused me to basically become a zombie. I slept a LOT and had absolutely no motivation. It also made going to meetings difficult in that I didn't feel like I was able to be 100% honest.
I finally was able to get off MMT and switched over to bupe. The transition was definitely not fun, but I am very glad I switched. When I am on Suboxone and doing what I need to do, my life gets a lot better. I've been on bupe in the past and continued to use on the weekends. That absolutely sucked! For me, working a 12 step program is vital to me staying on the "straight and narrow."
My view on MMT is that it definitely is not for everyone. There are a lot of people who had the same experience I had with methadone (sleeping a lot and no motivation). On the other hand, there are people out there that MMT makes all the difference. People like Dizzle and lolleedee come to mind. But, in my experience they are the minority. One thing I will say about methadone is that it does what it's supposed to do...it kept a needle out of my arm for almost five years.
I wish you luck and highly recommend doing a lot of research before getting on MMT. Also, like opiXPO, I also recommend adding in something else besides just MMT or bupe into your life. Whether that be 12 step stuff, another group-type thing or a psychologist.
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Methadone helps me with cravings to a degree. Part of it is that it takes a lot of heroin to get a mediocre high with the dose I take. Part of it is the methadone making me feel less desire for specifically opiates.
Where it doesn't help is with that need to be numb. To just get fucked up and make things more tolerable. That is the harder one for me, and that is the part of addiction that I always struggle with. That is what has seen me get off dope and then drink myself into oblivion so many times in the past. That is the part that only some work will help with. 12 step or counselling, or a social worker. Whatever form it takes to get what you need from it.
I have never been on subs, but I have heard it doesn't help with cravings as much. Everybody responds to different things. At the end of the day the treatment doesn't matter as long as you get the help you need from it.
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There is some good info on this site about methadone.
Like any kind of treatment it works how much your willing to out into it.
If you want to stop using, like really stop, it can be beneficial.
However, I do recommend reading up on maintenance. If sub is not working and you feel you are close to a relapse then why not methadone especially if it is as easy to get as my clinic is.
Going in to the clinic be honest about your addiction but I would think twice about being to honest. Just saying.
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I have that same experience, Z, That longing to zone out in a haze for a while. That has been one of the hardest things for me as well.
For a while, I would double up on my takehomes, run short, be sick. I had to go back to daily pickups (I still had weekly takehomes, I just didn;t take them) for about 4 months to get stable again. The thing about methadone is onece you start abusing maintenance medication, there isn't anywhere else to go.
When I started back daily, I got the stability back and realized it isn't worth it to mess with my doses. Plus, it really didn't do anything anyway.
I still use from time to time...I still have a dduragesic rx that I have managed to hang on to. So, once a month, I use them for three days and then they are gone. It's a little treat. I'm not perfect in my treatment, but for me, methadone has been able to help me keep my shit together. I'm ok with my three day fentanyl treat. I will never be perfect or opiate free. But, life is soooo much better on methadone!
I have found that it has given me my motivation for life back. I am excited to get up (most mornings, anyway!) and I am productive. Methadone never had a sedating quality for me, which is probably why it has helped so much!
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Going in to the clinic be honest about your addiction but I would think twice about being to honest. Just saying.
Can you elaborate more? I'm trying to decide about this along with Carni here.
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For me methadone was the absolute last straw. Like I swore I'd never get in it. I had heard all the bad shit and committed to never get on it.
Then shot went bad for me, really bad. Homeless, jobless, in and out of jail/public rehab. Shoplifting and breaking into cars to get $ for my fix every day.
The. One time when I was in jail I was on the division where they do the methadone dosing. I got pretty tight with this dude that was in it. We was a old school gangbanger and now was just getting high and Mai raining on done.
After I got out of jail that time I showed up at my moms door, told her I had an appointment for a clinic and needed the $ to start.
Of course she didn't hand over the cash, but she took the day off and went to the appointment with me. I was amazed after about an hour after my first dose my head and stomach started feeling normal. Eyes werent watery and yawns and sneezes stopped. For me it was a miracle.
My mother was always against methadone but that day as she and I say there at McDonald's drinking coffee trying to decide what the fuck she was gonna do with me (she really wanted to give me another chance and let me move in with her, but wasn't sure) she saw me transform from a sick feinding junkie to someone that could make it through the day without dope. My whole demeanor changed and at that moment she became a believer.
I did too.
I remember standing up with a bigass smile on my face and saying "holy shit mom, I think this is actually working!!!" We we're both a little shocked.
Of course I didn't quit the d altogether right away but I can tell you this:
If you have tried literally every othe avenue for getting away from dope and each time whatever success you get always ends up in a burning pile of wreckage as u inevitably end up on dope again, then methadone may be a solution for you.
Before getting on it here are my tips:
-you need to comity to yourself that you may be on it for a long time. There is not a "quick-fix" for longtime addicts. You need to come to grips with the fact that you could be on it for he rest of your life. Now that may be exaggerated but really the point is it doesn't matter how long ur on it. Anything g is better then destroying ur life with dope againand again.
- don't set a limit on the amount you need to stay under. Like "I'll never go above 50 mgs" that's stupid and ur setting urself up for failure. If ur gonna try it, my advice is to keep upping ur dose until you don't feel sick 28-30 hours after taking it. This way if u get I. There early one day to dose but late the next day u won't be all fucked up.
- plan on having to go every day for a while. That's just the way it goes. Find a time that it fits into ur schedule and make it part of ur routine. Routines really helped me in my early days off a constant habit
- try to stay active, whatever it is you like to do, try to push itself to do it. It's easy to get sleepy and lazy on Methadone. Set some goals for urself for the first 1 month 6 month as and 1 year. Work towards them. Put a plan in place to get u on the track of attaining them.
- finally, if u get Hugh for the first x days/months/years, don't feel guilty or like ur failing, sometimes it takes time to. Real habits, I literally failed EVERY piss test for 2,5 years straight, every month. But, I was slowly using less and less. Then one day I decided dope was holding me back from wing the person I wanted to be. And it pretty much wasn't even a struggle to quit it at that point I was so fuckkng sick of it all it just kinda faded away.
TL; DR
Yes methadone helps with cravings both mental and physical, it is a great tool if used properly. Like anything tho, it's not a magic bullet. There's no such thing in the world of addiction.
[/size][size=78%]Howver if you know FOR SURE you'll get high if u try to just quit using, then methadone is a good option. But it's. It a decision to be taken lightly and you need to understand that it may well be a long long commitment. Hell to be honest I'm ok if I'm on it for life. I don't care. [/size]
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Very good point about wanting to numb out.
When I first got on methadone, I started abusing the hell out of benzo's. It got to the point where I was taking on average 20 mg's of xanax a day. Some days way more than that. I absolutely fell in love with the methadone + benzo's = oblivion equation. I did that for quite a while.
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Going in to the clinic be honest about your addiction but I would think twice about being to honest. Just saying.
My opinion and that's all is it is this.
I just said I was a heroin addict and had been for years. They ask how much they don't know if 1 gram of my shit is way better than a half gram of some other shit. So I just went up too what dose made me happy and they did not bother me. I was an iv addict so arms do not lie and maybe that made my ordeal easier.
I do open up to my counselor now that I M stable but i wanted to make sure and get stable. I would hope most clinics are like mine but I have heard has things.
How long have you been addicted and to what if you want to say? It was a good thing for me but I agree its a big decision.
Can you elaborate more? I'm trying to decide about this along with Carni here.
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You have to put your post after the (/quote) or it gets added to the quotation.
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First off, thank you soooo much for all the feedback! I honestly appreciate every single bit of everyone's time and posts. Straight to the heart!
Ok, so I abruptly took a left turn shortly after my questions here. After opening up to my on again off again girl that I had fallen back yet again, and explaining my upcoming vacation I may be taking upstate, together we decided that I face things sober. Like the man I was and can be. After lots of.crying and trust me that's hard for me, I put the plan in motion.
Next I called work, took my vacation days. They were good with it. Luckily I didn't spend my nest egg for scenarios like this.
Then myself, my girl, and her best friend hopped in the vehicle and headed to the poconos. There I have a seasonal site and trailer. The fun begins... these two great people helped me overcome 6 days of help. All been through it. But this time around the difference for me was the whole sharing and caring thing. I always previously kicked alone. And just having someone there to poke and prod me and talk and make me talk. Stay out of my head. Fight back the crippling depression!!! Sure it wasn't fun, but physically I back from the dead. Already back to working out, constantly. Just getting back to Jersey after the storm and me and her agreed that's it's better we not.be together intimately. Weirdly, I'm ok with it.... for now..
So.the follow up plan so far is, I gave her my Hummer, cards, and online bank statements. Anything to help me not want to.stray. She in turn will stop by each morning and night to help ease me into the real fun of my upcoming or looming court date. And continue to take me to nightly meetings. These women are a godsend!!!
If by chance, I get a ninth life via the judicial system well that's all good but my plan for recovery can't deviate. If it does, it's already been agreed that MMD is the route I go. No BS.
9 days, and with supplements and vitamins I can honestly say I feel great. Sleep aids, etc...
When I get down I try to just workout. So that's like half my day. At least ill get back in the shape I want.
Hoping I don't fall off, but only God knows, eh?
@wanderingmind - No I'm not a real carni, it was a gamertag I used way way back when I played video games. I'm talking like 1997, dial-up modems, pre quake engines, etc...
Again from the bottom of my heart thank you everyone for speaking up. End result being, when I fall short, and I may, then MMT is where I be. 😑
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That's awesome man. It's a great feeling when people you care about step up and care about you right back. I hope that you make it through this time and you don't need to go to the next option.
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Glad to gear you are doing well! Just be prepared for this "pink cloud" of abstinence to go away at some point! It is never the getting clean, it's the staying clean that gets most of us!
Just continue with what is working for you now and if you start struggling, don't beat yourself up. Methadone will always be available if you need it. I went on it because I was sick of struggling with not only abstinence, but with the soul crushing depression that has been with me long before I ever picked up a drug! The constant struggle, without a moments peace, is what made me finally go on methadone.
Anywho...so happy you are doing well! Keep us posted on your journey!
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Way to go! It always puts good feelings into my heart when I hear someone doing well after some bad times 8)
If you can do it without MMT or Suboxone, keep on doing that! I doubt there are many people out there who would say they'd prefer bupe/MMT over being totally free of everything. Not many of us can do that, but if you can...just do that.
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that's really impressive.
I'm now in my 4th week with no Meth and I find that it's far harder than avoiding opiates. I made a resolve to stop opiates and it's going well but I have intrusive Meth thoughts now.
wishing you strength and the best possible outcome.
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Good for you, Chipper!! That's great! How have you been managing the meth cravings? What about meth do you find harder to avoid than opiates? Is it the lift and energy that you miss? Sorry for the questions. I was never an upper person. I actually do have ADHD and I have a script for dexedrine, but when I take it, it makes me so fucking tired! When I take it, after about an hour, I have to nap! Such an adverse reaction to an amphetamine, but for those of us scatter-brains, these meds calm us down!
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I manage it by thinking about how lousy I will feel if I lose the sleep that I need to function at work - which will then lead to job loss.
yes, it's the lift and energy I miss.
I was diagnosed with ADHD once but it never made me tired, just quiet.
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Is it just me or is meth making a comeback? It was really big in the 90's to early 2000's and then seemed to die away. Now it's like it's making a comeback.
Here's a meth story; A few weeks ago, I was taking a walk by my house and had this crazy thing happen to me. It was early evening and I was a mile or so from my house. I'm walking on the sidewalk and I notice this guy on the other side of the street looking at me really oddly. Right away I could tell he was tweaking hard (super jittery, looking everywhere, eyes were huge like an owl...) He stares at me for a few seconds and then starts yelling, "I'm going to come over there and stab you!" I yelled back, "You start walking towards me and I call the cops." I got my phone out quick, dialed 911 and had my finger ready to tap the call button on the screen. He screams back at me, "I'm calling the cops first!"
I'm thinking, you're going to call the cops!!!???! WTF is this a dream??? He's got his phone out and is talking on it. To me, it didn't make sense for him to be calling the cops after he threatened to stab me. So, I start to walk away while keeping him in my line of sight and my phone out. When I get a block away or so, I start heading back to my place. All of the sudden, a cop car comes out of fucking nowhere and two cops burst out of the car with their guns drawn :o They start screaming at me to put my hands up. I can still picture this clearly in my head today.
I comply. They handcuff me and start searching me. The cops immediately calm down after seeing that I have no knife and am not fucked up on anything. I start explaining the situation...dude threatened to stab ME and that I was going to call 911 if he started across the street and then I started walking away when he didn't cross the street. They uncuffed me, thanked me for complying and being calm. They apologized for the whole thing and even offered to give me a ride home. I'm sure the tweaker got taken to the ER as he was obviously not in a right state of mind. I mean, you've gotta be pretty out of it to threaten to stab someone and then call the cops and say that someone threatened to stab you???
Can anyone here that uses/used meth explain why anyone would enjoy staying up for days at a time with the end result being crazy paranoia that causes one to literally become insane??? I've never understood that.
@chipper Good job on no doing meth for a month! I've heard from friends that meth addiction is a bitch. I've personally never really enjoyed meth too much. In high school I did it a handful of times. It was fun for a few hours, but after that I just wished it would get out of my system so I could go to sleep.
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How are you doing now, Carni?
Everything Dizzle said is spot-on.
Honestly subs and methadone are just 2 completely different ballparks imo. Subs have some trade offs and bad side effects
that for me were small yet still not worth the good things they did for me.
The benefit did not outweigh the rest of it.
With methadone the benefits are huge but the side effects and trade offs are also much larger.
It's the only drug besides heroin that has held me totally
Kept the withdrawals at bay, got me feeling 100% well, helped with the cravings.
And the psychological shit that goes with giving up dope.
It even helped with my other psych issues
Like depression and bipolar. When I'm on methadone at a stable dose
I don't need psych meds.
I'm not advising anyone else to give up theirs but I just noticed
I'm truly ok without them and with only methadone.
It's not a short term taper sort of thing.
It can take some time to get stable depending on the rules
Of your clinic and your personal tolerance.
Try to go with the dose you first feel comfortable at
Don't keep increasing the dose wanting to get loaded
Bc it will only make you lazier, sleepier, fatter, sweatier, etc.
It won't give you the rush that heroin gives although I'd be lying if I said it didn't have a full
Opiate pleasurable feeling. Which is why it scratched that itch for me
And kept me from using.
Also it's harder to come off than heroin imo.
The detox is longer and more intense. Just stopping without weaning all the way down would be impossible imo.
I tried it once. I walked away from the clinic at 70mg. I was using again within 4 days.
It was the worst detox symptoms I've ever had. So keep in mind that you will need to taper down when you are ready to get off it.
I did use at first BC it took me about 12 weeks to get stable on my dose.
This clinic does wafers and liquid
And they only go up to 120 on liquid before you have to get some blood tests to see
How you metabolize the drug. If it proves you do absorb faster they will go higher
And to switch to wafers you have to be testing clean first
But I needed wafers BC I swear they work better for me
And the liquid wasn't holding me so I was using still to be able to function.
Catch 22 situation.
Finally the doctor met with me and switched me to wafers on the promise that I'd stop using
And it did make the difference and I did stop.
Yet the clinic still swears liquid and wafers are of equal strength.
When I switched to the wafers, that whole week I slept for hours after dosing.
It was too much compared to my still being sick on the same dose of liquid.
But that is a debate for another time & place.
Methadone is what I needed to get enough clean time under my belt
To really start getting my life in order. I needed to break old habits and make some new ones. I had also had a lot of trauma in my last few yrs of using and I knew being clean
Was a whole battle BC it wasn't just the addiction that was causing me problems
And we all know how opiates numb you out emotionally
Even though methadone isn't nearly as bad with it as heroin was for me.
It was a literal lifesaver for me this time around
Although it's still far far from perfect.
Some people stay on methadone for life.
There's no shame in that if it works for you. I can understand the appeal of opiates for life.
Especially when you have pain issues and/or psych issues
And it's better than being on street drugs for life
Bc that's not really a life, imo. Not to do it forever. At least with methadone you still have your time and your self. You aren't consumed with getting money and drugs all the time.
No meeting with dealers and worrying about getting arrested BC of it. Etc.
If anyone is considering it and has questions I'm always happy to try to answer
To the best of my ability.