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Author Topic: Planned Parenthood Hearing (i.e., Trial)  (Read 15637 times)

Offline Opus

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Re: Planned Parenthood Hearing (i.e., Trial)
« Reply #14 on: October 02, 2015, 09:18:37 AM »
Google brother, it's all out there.. If you have something specific to talk about, ok, but I ain't gonna write a thesis on everything that's wrong with that BS. I'd be here all night, but the bottom line is that video is pure propaganda.

dailykos.com has a ton of good info, and the comments are frequently even better than the articles.

Here's Cenk weighing in:


Fact is, Planned Parenthood PREVENTS MANY MANY more abortions than they have anything to do with.

How can anyone argue with that?
« Last Edit: October 02, 2015, 09:22:45 AM by Opus »
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monkawat

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Re: Planned Parenthood Hearing (i.e., Trial)
« Reply #15 on: October 02, 2015, 09:33:01 AM »
Google brother, it's all out there.. If you have something specific to talk about, ok, but I ain't gonna write a thesis on everything that's wrong with that BS. I'd be here all night, but the bottom line is that video is pure propaganda.

dailykos.com has a ton of good info, and the comments are frequently even better than the articles.

Here's Cenk weighing in:


Fact is, Planned Parenthood PREVENTS MANY MANY more abortions than they have anything to do with, and that's the whole point behind their reproductive health programs, to minimize unwanted pregnancies.

How can anyone argue with that?

Interesting. I think that a lot of their practices are in fact highly questionable though. For instance- I don't like their one day D&E abortions. It is done solely for the purpose of profitability, not for the sake of the woman's health and comfort pre-procedure.

A study found that "Routine use of misoprostol as an alternative to osmotic dilation prior to second-trimester D&E is not recommended due to increased risk of inadequate cervical dilation. Buccal or vaginal misoprostol use may be considered by experienced clinicians in lieu of osmotic dilation early in the second trimester (before 16 weeks) in women at low risk for cervical or uterine injury."

That chick in those videos named Mary Gatter said that her clinic only uses a one-day method of cervical dilation for second trimester D&E (Dilation and Evacuation) abortions. Even a 16 week D&E doesn’t get laminaria to dilate for a day prior. That shaves some time off the whole ordeal which lets the abortion be completed in a single day, even when it's a second trimester abortion. But women often have really severe stomach side effects when they don't have the advantage of laminaria prep.

I know that seems trivial in the long run for a group that does hundreds of thousands of abortions every year- but I think they need to re-examine a lot of their practices. I know they'll claim budgetary or physician time related constraints as the justifications behind some of their procedures, but sometimes women who are already choosing this traumatic procedure deserve a little comfort.

I don't agree with most abortions outside of rape, incest, or maternal health/survival instances and certainly am against 2nd and G-D forbid late term abortions- but I still believe all women going through with it deserve proper medical and emotional respect and treatment. I know my views are unpopular here and that I usually side with most of y'all on social issues- but I am fairly grounded in my stance on abortion in general. Safe access may indeed be a necessity- but I just don't know about PP as the deliverer for that access.
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Offline Opus

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Re: Planned Parenthood Hearing (i.e., Trial)
« Reply #16 on: October 02, 2015, 09:44:27 AM »
Quote
I don't agree with most abortions outside of rape, incest, or maternal health/survival instances

..and I don't agree with people who project their ethics.

If you want to quote medical opinion could you also provide the source?


An article from dailykos on funding of PP:

An answer to the GOP Planned Parenthood Question

by leevank

At today's hearing on the supposed "investigation" of Planned Parenthood, several GOP members of Congress harped on Planned Parenthood getting something like 41% of its funds from the government. They decried this fact, and mentioned the thousands of charitable organizations that would love to get significant government funding, but didn't do so. Of course most of those organizations don't perform services that the government reimburses regardless of whether they're performed by a charitable organization or a profit-making business. But at least one of the Republicans went further, and asked Cecile Richards whether she knew of any other charitable organizations that received such a high percentage of their funds from the government. At least in the part of the hearing I watched, she wasn't able to answer that, but with a little bit of research on the internet, I can provide at least a partial answer:

Catholic Charities: In 2010, Catholic Charities received approximately 62% of its funding from government sources.  http://www.nytimes.com/...

Catholic Relief Services: Catholic Relief Services receives 46.7% of its funding from government sources. http://www.charitynavigator.org/...

Although others may feel differently, I have no problem with these Catholic organizations receiving government funds for providing needed services, even though I'm not a Catholic and fundamentally disagree with some of their positions. It's just too bad that Republicans in Congress seem unwilling to extend similar tolerance to Planned Parenthood when it provides needed services, simply because they disagree with some of the other things it does without government money

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/09/30/1426092/-An-answer-to-the-GOP-Planned-Parenthood-Question

EDIT: please source this?
Quote from: MW
Interesting. I think that a lot of their practices are in fact highly questionable though. For instance- I don't like their one day D&E abortions. It is done solely for the purpose of profitability

I don't believe for a second that PP is cashing in on some quickie abortion scheme, honestly that smells kinda funny to me.

« Last Edit: October 02, 2015, 09:49:05 AM by Opus »
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monkawat

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Re: Planned Parenthood Hearing (i.e., Trial)
« Reply #17 on: October 02, 2015, 09:48:03 AM »
http://www.contraceptionjournal.org/article/S0010-7824%2807%2900419-2/fulltext

That is the medical journal you wanted sourced.

The sheer fact that they utilize the D and E procedure at ALL is worrysome. But look into PP's packets they provide for these D and E abortions. They never mention anything but the miso.

Their D and E track record is pretty shoddy- Check out the wrongful death suit related to a woman named Tanya Reaves, who died via hemorrhaging resulting from a botched d and e abortion at a chicago area PP.
--------------------------------

This is one of those topics that tends to go nowhere fast as folks don't tend to change their views on stuff like this. I'm not gonna continue on for the sheer sake of conflict and argument. Nothing positive will come out of it.

Take it easy chops



« Last Edit: October 02, 2015, 10:06:46 AM by monkawat »
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Offline Opus

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Re: Planned Parenthood Hearing (i.e., Trial)
« Reply #18 on: October 02, 2015, 10:07:02 AM »
I can't really see much in that article (or the opinion) that's terribly relevant to this discussion, and again, I have big doubts that PP is operating anything like a for-profit quickie abortion factory.

If I cared enough I could run that D&E opinion by a retired OB/GYN nurse who ran a maternity ward at a major hospital for years and years, but I'm not gonna do that, and even if she agreed with you, I don't think that would overshadow the good that PP is doing nor the truth about this crackpot "investigation."

The notion that D&E is done purely for profitability is what I'd like to see sourced.

edit: this is direct from that article:
"Because D&E is safe, cost-effective and efficient, it is the most common means of second trimester elective abortion. In 2003, more than 98% of all second-trimester abortions in the United States were performed by D&E "

%98, but you disagree that PP does this?

So where do you suggest someone go who's 19 and has no other options?

Maybe there's just a teeny little bit of bias there??

c'mon..

« Last Edit: October 02, 2015, 10:20:05 AM by Opus »
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monkawat

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Re: Planned Parenthood Hearing (i.e., Trial)
« Reply #19 on: October 02, 2015, 10:12:31 AM »
I can't really see much in that article (or the opinion) that's terribly relevant to this discussion, and again, I have big doubts that PP is operating anything like a for-profit quickie abortion factory.

If I cared enough I could run that D&E opinion by a retired OB/GYN nurse who ran a maternity ward at a major hospital for years and years, but I'm not gonna do that, and even if she agreed with you, I don't think that would overshadow the good that PP is doing nor the truth about this crackpot "investigation."

The notion that D&E is done purely for profitability is what I'd like to see sourced.

I never said D & E was done purely for the sake of profit- but rather the lack of a more comfortable prep method for that procedure.

I don't really care what a retired OB nurse thinks about it- a physician who performs abortions would likely be the best authority figure on that- but it doesn't matter really, i also don't care enough to worry about it. There's a doctor who performs abortions that goes to my synagogue- but people like that might not  like to just strike up random convos with people about abortion methods or what they do for a living anyways....

I don't like or support PP. You and everyone else on the forum do support em. It's a moot point now.
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Offline Opus

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Re: Planned Parenthood Hearing (i.e., Trial)
« Reply #20 on: October 02, 2015, 10:24:47 AM »
I can't really see much in that article (or the opinion) that's terribly relevant to this discussion, and again, I have big doubts that PP is operating anything like a for-profit quickie abortion factory.

If I cared enough I could run that D&E opinion by a retired OB/GYN nurse who ran a maternity ward at a major hospital for years and years, but I'm not gonna do that, and even if she agreed with you, I don't think that would overshadow the good that PP is doing nor the truth about this crackpot "investigation."

The notion that D&E is done purely for profitability is what I'd like to see sourced.

I never said D & E was done purely for the sake of profit- but rather the lack of a more comfortable prep method for that procedure.

I don't really care what a retired OB nurse thinks about it- a physician who performs abortions would likely be the best authority figure on that- but it doesn't matter really, i also don't care enough to worry about it. There's a doctor who performs abortions that goes to my synagogue- but people like that might not  like to just strike up random convos with people about abortion methods or what they do for a living anyways....

That retired OB nurse has a Masters and more experience on the maternity floor than many MDs. I could go on, but it's about as far beside the point as this quote:

Quote
For instance- I don't like their one day D&E abortions. It is done solely for the purpose of profitability

is BS, and it definitely is exactly what you wrote.

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Offline thetalkingasshole

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Re: Planned Parenthood Hearing (i.e., Trial)
« Reply #21 on: October 02, 2015, 11:40:38 AM »
As a trump supporter
I only support abortion in the case of immigrants
trying to give birth to anchor babies

AND ID MAKE MEXICO PAY FOR IT!
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Offline Narkotikon (OP)

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Re: Planned Parenthood Hearing (i.e., Trial)
« Reply #22 on: October 02, 2015, 01:58:53 PM »
Monkawat, I realize you're not a member here anymore, and that you can't respond to this, but...

I thought 3rd trimester abortions were illegal.  I'm not sure if that's a Federal law, or a state-by-state law. 

In any case, abortion is a woman's right.  Roe v. Wade allowed women a way out of potentially harmful situations: raising an unwanted child, women who've been raped or the victim of incest, women who are too young or who feel they're not up to the challenges of motherhood, etc. 

I don't agree with abortions being used as a primary means of birth control.  I'm against a hypothetical "get ten, get one free" card.

But I do think abortion should be continued and allowed.  In every state, not just certain ones that perform these services b/c conservative states design laws to effectively curtail the right to abortions.  Things like making a woman drive hours / days to a different state.  That type of thing isn't only impractical, it's financially impossible for a lot of women. 

And yes, if men could get pregnant, I think this would be a nonissue.  I'm sure men would be all over that type of "get out of jail free card." 

I like you and agree with a lot of your opinions.  I'm also saddened you had to leave.  I hope you'll return eventually.  BUT I vehemently disagree with you on this topic.  I don't believe Planned Parenthood provides abortions for a profit to pocket. 

I've not seen the video you saw about officials and board members acting inappropriately.  But I don't believe it to be true.  I'm sure it was planned as a right-to-life ploy.  And if it is indeed illegal, I highly doubt PP provides 3rd trimester abortions. 

I don't think their mission statement includes breaking the law. 
« Last Edit: October 02, 2015, 02:02:11 PM by Narkotikon »
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Offline jdub

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Re: Planned Parenthood Hearing (i.e., Trial)
« Reply #23 on: October 02, 2015, 02:42:40 PM »
Why is he not a member anymore?
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Re: Planned Parenthood Hearing (i.e., Trial)
« Reply #24 on: October 02, 2015, 08:26:59 PM »
I think this is intentionally confusing a few issues.

On one hand abortion.  Such a charged issue with both sides feeling very much in the right and very emotionally involved.  You can disagree without making someone feel bad about their views.

On the other hand there is biotech companies sourcing stem cells from 'medical waste.'  Don't get mad.  I'm not going to list all of the sources.

In the modern rules for sourcing stem cells without growing them like the Chinese do, western biotech firms are turning to medical waste.  It seems like a better use of it then the garbage dump/incinerator to me, but I understand the outrage.

Umbilical cords are often saved or sold post birth for the special cells in them.  The issue is really biotech research, and supplying source materials and ethics.  Twisting it all together just provokes gut emotional responses.  Medical tests on the poor babies.

Shame on the people that made that video, even more so because they knew exactly what they were doing.
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Offline _Enduser

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Re: Planned Parenthood Hearing (i.e., Trial)
« Reply #25 on: October 03, 2015, 07:24:35 AM »
Yeah an incinerator or a fucking commemorative born fast asleep video is much better

Why hasn't this been brought up yet? 



Abortion is essential to women's health.  I can't believe a bunch of junkies don't see through this pro life deal, and the baby brain harvesting video is like, so much more brazen than the ACORN agit-prop vid (if that was even possible), I can't believe anyone really believes this shit anymore.

BTW:  Some context on the video above, is that this was originally created and posted by the parents of "baby jayden", born "fast asleep" (jesus christ wow just wow).  So the choice of awesome early 2000s bassline is purely theirs.  The original vdieo got like millions of hits then was taken down (i wonder why....))  So is using human tissue for research more reverent than that "baby" being in some of the most widely derided videos on the internet that ISN'T fake?  Don't get it twisted.  It's not even a baby, shit needs to be born alive to be a baby.  Everyone has it backwards on this shit.  Why aren't the Republicans up in arms over that gross ass baby jayden shit?  Those necro black lips make me wanna puke.

The first time I saw this video I was coming up really hard on mushrooms and then I was laughing hysterically and then vomiting everywhere
« Last Edit: October 03, 2015, 07:29:12 AM by _Enduser »
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Offline Narkotikon (OP)

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Re: Planned Parenthood Hearing (i.e., Trial)
« Reply #26 on: October 03, 2015, 11:09:40 AM »
Does anyone know the deal on third-trimester abortions?

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Re: Planned Parenthood Hearing (i.e., Trial)
« Reply #27 on: October 03, 2015, 11:20:27 AM »
Does anyone know the deal on third-trimester abortions?
9 states and D.C are no restrictions on abortions , but Third trimester abortions are only available when the life of the mothers is at stake [outside of state regulations] in the vast majority of the country already.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2013/06/18/us/politics/abortion-restrictions.html?_r=0
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Offline Narkotikon (OP)

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Re: Planned Parenthood Hearing (i.e., Trial)
« Reply #28 from previous page: October 03, 2015, 11:27:04 AM »
Does anyone know the deal on third-trimester abortions?
9 states and D.C are no restrictions on abortions , but Third trimester abortions are only available when the life of the mothers is at stake [outside of state regulations] in the vast majority of the country already.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2013/06/18/us/politics/abortion-restrictions.html?_r=0

Thanks.  I never knew if it was a Federal law, or a state-by-state law. 
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