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Author Topic: Poll: (3 opt's) re. Negative Karma / Negative Reputation  (Read 40441 times)

Offline Chip (OP)

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Re: Poll: (3 opt's) re. Negative Karma / Negative Reputation
« Reply #29 on: September 01, 2015, 11:23:50 AM »
jdub, whilst I inherently agree, the system was abused so it had to go ... high neg. counts can attack the psyche.
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Re: Poll: (3 opt's) re. Negative Karma / Negative Reputation
« Reply #30 on: September 01, 2015, 11:28:21 AM »
Personally,I have little time for a rep system in any form,but I appreciate some people like rep.So,what ever you guys decide I'll live with.
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Re: Poll: (3 opt's) re. Negative Karma / Negative Reputation
« Reply #31 on: September 01, 2015, 11:33:47 AM »
rep.: "get rid of it" vs. "as it is now" are neck in neck.
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Offline jdub

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Re: Poll: (3 opt's) re. Negative Karma / Negative Reputation
« Reply #32 on: September 01, 2015, 11:35:38 AM »
Nark, you DID vote for us to keep it they way it is right now with smite turned off.

you're good. don't worry. i know what you'd want.

OK, good.  I thought maybe "no support" meant no work was needed on the negative karma, as in it didn't need to be modified (i.e., the old system).

...............................

JDub, yeah, that is my interpretation.  Do you think it fair that people should use the negative karma for personal negative feelings though?  So you're basically saying if Member A doesn't like Member B, then Member A can smite Member B to hell.  That's great.   ::)   Do you think that promotes a harmonious board?  If anything, it causes anger and resentment.  Especially since you can't see who's giving you the negative. 

I'd like to think everyone on here is a decent person, who would choose to give negative rep the way I was suggesting it be used.  Apparently that's not the case for some. 

Edit: And what do personal feelings have to do with negative rep anyway? The negative rep you're giving is for that particular post. Do you think it right that Member A who had an argument with Member B a year ago, six months ago, 1 month ago, should give out negative rep for Member B's post simply b/c they're upset?  What does that have to do with their post?  Personal feelings should NOT be taken into account when giving negative rep.  Some people were doing that.  You just admitted that's how you interpreted the system.  Don't you think that's abuse?  And as I've said countless times now, it wasn't just me who thought the system was abused.  There were ALSO a few others. 

And as for mild / "not-so-strong" disagreements.  Well, would you smite / punch someone out in your everyday life simply because you disagreed with them slightly?  I'd hope not.  Do you think it's okay to behave that way simply b/c this is online?  Assholery is assholery, wherever it takes place.

I think its fair for people to use it for whatever they feel like. If there were negative repercussions beyond a small number under your avatar I might have a different opinion. If someone feels like "smiting someone to hell" then go for it. Does it really matter in the grand scheme of things, or even on this board?

Do I think it promotes a harmonious board? There is an argument to be made that it allows people to vent without confrontation and thereby serves as a release valve. I don't think it detracts from a harmonious board either. Especially with the anonymity. If some anonymous person is pushing a button under your avatar, how does that promote discord? Who would you be angry or resentful towards? Do you think the neg karma on reddit is causing discord over there?

"And what do personal feelings have to do with negative rep anyway?" Apparently a lot, if you think people are using it that way.

"The negative rep you're giving is for that particular post." Once again, your interpretation. Maybe some people want to use it in a more general sense. I don't think that's "abuse". I think member B should be able to click the neg rep for whatever reason he wants. I'm not a big fan of limiting people's options/ actions/ freedom. Just in a general philosophical sense.

Why shouldn't personal feelings be taken into account when giving neg rep? I 100% don't think giving neg rep based on personal feelings is abuse of the system. I guess that's why we fundamentally disagree on this issue, but I'm not insinuating that my opinion is anything more than that. You keep stating what people should NOT do like its some sort of fact or rule written on the ancient tablets of drug board karma.

I don't think you're lying when you say you're not the only one that felt this way. I disagree with those people too. Just because other people have the same opinion you do doesn't make you right.

I don't think that pushing the negative rep button equates with physically assaulting someone IRL. Do you really think the two things are even remotely similar? Is it really that serious to you?
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Offline jdub

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Re: Poll: (3 opt's) re. Negative Karma / Negative Reputation
« Reply #33 on: September 01, 2015, 11:36:53 AM »
jdub, whilst I inherently agree, the system was abused so it had to go ... high neg. counts can attack the psyche.

How was it abused? What happened to democracy?
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Offline Chip (OP)

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Re: Poll: (3 opt's) re. Negative Karma / Negative Reputation
« Reply #34 on: September 01, 2015, 11:37:25 AM »
Chipper's regular user profile vote submitted on my behalf as a regular. I wear two hats, I figure.
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Offline Narkotikon

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Re: Poll: (3 opt's) re. Negative Karma / Negative Reputation
« Reply #35 on: September 01, 2015, 12:36:33 PM »
Nark, you DID vote for us to keep it they way it is right now with smite turned off.

you're good. don't worry. i know what you'd want.

OK, good.  I thought maybe "no support" meant no work was needed on the negative karma, as in it didn't need to be modified (i.e., the old system).

...............................

JDub, yeah, that is my interpretation.  Do you think it fair that people should use the negative karma for personal negative feelings though?  So you're basically saying if Member A doesn't like Member B, then Member A can smite Member B to hell.  That's great.   ::)   Do you think that promotes a harmonious board?  If anything, it causes anger and resentment.  Especially since you can't see who's giving you the negative. 

I'd like to think everyone on here is a decent person, who would choose to give negative rep the way I was suggesting it be used.  Apparently that's not the case for some. 

Edit: And what do personal feelings have to do with negative rep anyway? The negative rep you're giving is for that particular post. Do you think it right that Member A who had an argument with Member B a year ago, six months ago, 1 month ago, should give out negative rep for Member B's post simply b/c they're upset?  What does that have to do with their post?  Personal feelings should NOT be taken into account when giving negative rep.  Some people were doing that.  You just admitted that's how you interpreted the system.  Don't you think that's abuse?  And as I've said countless times now, it wasn't just me who thought the system was abused.  There were ALSO a few others. 

And as for mild / "not-so-strong" disagreements.  Well, would you smite / punch someone out in your everyday life simply because you disagreed with them slightly?  I'd hope not.  Do you think it's okay to behave that way simply b/c this is online?  Assholery is assholery, wherever it takes place.

I think its fair for people to use it for whatever they feel like. If there were negative repercussions beyond a small number under your avatar I might have a different opinion. If someone feels like "smiting someone to hell" then go for it. Does it really matter in the grand scheme of things, or even on this board?

Do I think it promotes a harmonious board? There is an argument to be made that it allows people to vent without confrontation and thereby serves as a release valve. I don't think it detracts from a harmonious board either. Especially with the anonymity. If some anonymous person is pushing a button under your avatar, how does that promote discord? Who would you be angry or resentful towards? Do you think the neg karma on reddit is causing discord over there?

"And what do personal feelings have to do with negative rep anyway?" Apparently a lot, if you think people are using it that way.

"The negative rep you're giving is for that particular post." Once again, your interpretation. Maybe some people want to use it in a more general sense. I don't think that's "abuse". I think member B should be able to click the neg rep for whatever reason he wants. I'm not a big fan of limiting people's options/ actions/ freedom. Just in a general philosophical sense.

Why shouldn't personal feelings be taken into account when giving neg rep? I 100% don't think giving neg rep based on personal feelings is abuse of the system. I guess that's why we fundamentally disagree on this issue, but I'm not insinuating that my opinion is anything more than that. You keep stating what people should NOT do like its some sort of fact or rule written on the ancient tablets of drug board karma.

I don't think you're lying when you say you're not the only one that felt this way. I disagree with those people too. Just because other people have the same opinion you do doesn't make you right.

I don't think that pushing the negative rep button equates with physically assaulting someone IRL. Do you really think the two things are even remotely similar? Is it really that serious to you?


I think we should just agree to disagree and move on. 

I do think it causes disharmony, especially because you don't know who's giving the negative rep.  It causes people to be suspicious of each other.  What's the point of venting if it's anonymous?  You're basically smacking someone without them knowing it was you.  How are problems to be addressed that way?  I think it's better and healthier for people to talk to each other if they have a problem with each other. 

Some people use the site differently than you do.  For some it is a social outlet.  Should the negative number mean anything in the grand scheme of things?  No.  But that's easier said than done for some.  Some people do take it to heart.  As for personal feelings, I'm not the only one thinking that.  Hell, you just admitted that's how you used the rep system.  You think smiting people for personal reasons, unrelated to the post, is perfectly acceptable.  That's a very negative viewpoint. 

I don't think people should be allowed to do whatever the hell they want.  Rules of behavior have to be set in place otherwise you have anarchy.  IMO, anarchy is bad, whether it be online or in people's everyday life.  I consider the positive and negative rep to be used per post b/c the person's avatar is by that post.  If it were meant to be used on a general, personal basis, there would be an applaud / smite option on their profile page.  People have other options to express those negative feelings without giving negative rep.

I'm not saying my opinion is "right" or that other people have to agree.  It's not based on my position as an admin.  It's simply my opinion.  I'm sorry you don't see that.  If I were saying something as an admin, in a mandated kind of way, for other people to take seriously, I'd state that.  Otherwise my posts should be interpreted simply as my opinions / thoughts as a member.  When I say people shouldn't do something, that's an opinion, not a rule. 

Yes, I consider the negative rep, when used in a personal way, to be a form of online assault.  It personally concerns me when people think doing that kind of thing is acceptable.  I think it denotes a very negative, angry attitude.  I also think it's odd that someone who wouldn't act that way in their everyday life would act that way online.  Just because it's behind a computer screen doesn't make it right IMO.  Online actions do have consequences for some people in their everyday life.  I don't see why it's so hard for people to be kind to each other online.  If you have a problem with someone, talk it out.  Unrestrained anger / smiting hurts some.  Why would someone want to do that if it's not in their everyday nature?  In short, I think people should behave the same way online as in their everyday life.  I don't think being behind a screen should be enough of a reason to act like an unabashed asshole. 
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Re: Poll: (3 opt's) re. Negative Karma / Negative Reputation
« Reply #36 on: September 01, 2015, 01:03:42 PM »
I agree with the use of some kind of system that indicates a member's credibiity or how much others appreciate him/her. Whatever is implemented though, has to aply to everyone and all must particiapte (or none).

I wasn't too crazy about Opiphile's software but one thing I did like was the reputation and opportunity to comment when you "gave rep" while at the same time negative "dings" weren't sucha big deal.  I THINK there people who had earned more rep points, been longer members and made more posts had more "weight" when it came to giving rep. I liked that it was more than just thumbs up or thumbs down, ether against each other or in aggregate.

Maybe a simplified system, like we had originally would be OK but in that case maybe it should be on the members' profile page instead of on every post. That way you don't read their post with a bias.
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Offline jdub

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Re: Poll: (3 opt's) re. Negative Karma / Negative Reputation
« Reply #37 on: September 01, 2015, 01:10:34 PM »
Yeah we're gonna have to agree to disagree.

I don't see where I admitted to using it in any particular way. I've used it 2 or 3x when I didn't agree w/someone. Doesn't mean I don't think ppl should be allowed to use it however they see fit.

 I am a philosophical anarchist. I don't particularly like rules.

I understand this is your opinion, independent of your mod status. However, when you keep saying it's NOT meant to be used in a certain way it comes off like you think it's a fact. You're not saying, "I think rep shouldn't be used in that way".

I understand ppl use the site in different ways. Why don't people get to use neg rep in different ways?

Online assault? Srsly? It concerns me that people would take it that seriously. It's just the internet.

I also don't get why you think the ppl that do use it wouldn't act that way irl. People do act shitty on the Internet, I guess it's an unfortunate fact of online life. Which is why I think it's good to try and have thick skin and not let neg rep affect you that much. (I hope that doesn't come off as patronizing, because that's not the tone I intended).

If you want ppl to be kind, you have to behave in a way that engenders kindness. I gave you neg rep once after you put personal details of fear's life in the opiophile post. I didn't think that was very kind or conscientious of you. Just my opinion which is why I gave you neg rep, and I would do the same irl. I wouldn't assault you though, I don't think of neg rep in the same light as you apparently.

I believe I've stated my beliefs pretty well. I'm happy to let the discussion die. Or keep going....
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Offline Narkotikon

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Re: Poll: (3 opt's) re. Negative Karma / Negative Reputation
« Reply #38 on: September 01, 2015, 01:34:59 PM »
Yes, I'd like this debate to die.  I don't especially like debating in the first place.  It's a form of polite bitching IMO.  I also don't like having to defend my views.  It is what it is.

I don't know if you were speaking in a general sense, or if you meant me, when you said people have to act in a way that engenders kindness.  But I've always felt like I have behaved in a way that is kind.  Any "snarkieness" on Opiophile was either meant as a joke, or in instances where I was defending myself.  I'd like to think most people don't view me as an asshole.  I assure you that's not how I intend to be.  If some do think of me that way, I'm not sure there's anything I could even do to change their opinion.

As for Fear's info.  The only thing I did was to talk about his affair.  I didn't even want to list names.  He's the one who started naming names.  I originally referred to the other two as male member and female member.  I also don't think I did anything "bad" because it was already well known.  I was even told he made a thread shortly after my banning about his relationship with his "friend," as he put it.  I'm sure most people could read that for what it was.  I know a few did.  I'm also not the one who listed his first name.  Dizzle called him by his first name.  I don't consider my actions as "outing him."  Sorry you disagree. 



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Re: Poll: (3 opt's) re. Negative Karma / Negative Reputation
« Reply #39 on: September 01, 2015, 02:51:01 PM »
karma is now expressed as a total.

looks more appropriate.

thanks to SMF Support gurus.
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Offline Chip (OP)

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Re: Poll: (3 opt's) re. Negative Karma / Negative Reputation
« Reply #40 on: September 01, 2015, 03:03:24 PM »
yeah Nark., I'd called you delicate as far as far as worrying and obsessing goes. there are tendencies, if you don't mind me saying so.

you have to toughen up and find common ground with people like agreeing to disagree.

but you're improving so it's a work in progress.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2015, 03:05:03 PM by Chipper »
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Offline Narkotikon

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Re: Poll: (3 opt's) re. Negative Karma / Negative Reputation
« Reply #41 on: September 01, 2015, 03:42:31 PM »
yeah Nark., I'd called you delicate...

The reason I changed my tagline to "I'm delicate like a flower" is b/c when I was searching for my new avatar pic, I saw a picture of Butters with the quote "I'm delicate like a flower."  I was going to use it but it was too big.  I think he might have said that on an episode of South Park.  Plus, the current one was my old one. 

I had completely forgotten you once said that. 
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Re: Poll: (3 opt's) re. Negative Karma / Negative Reputation
« Reply #42 on: September 01, 2015, 03:45:52 PM »
Whatevs:::

You all should've listened to me when I said that:

Applause should be worth 548/1000 of a positive point, while

Smites are worth -103/1000 of a point.

It really is THE ONLY REASONABLE SOLUTION.
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Offline Chip (OP)

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Re: Poll: (3 opt's) re. Negative Karma / Negative Reputation
« Reply #43 on: September 01, 2015, 03:49:17 PM »
at least it's simple. looks like we're going with it as is.
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Re: Poll: (3 opt's) re. Negative Karma / Negative Reputation
« Reply #44 from previous page: September 02, 2015, 09:01:06 AM »
Yes, I'd like this debate to die.  I don't especially like debating in the first place.  It's a form of polite bitching IMO.  I also don't like having to defend my views.  It is what it is.

I don't know if you were speaking in a general sense, or if you meant me, when you said people have to act in a way that engenders kindness.  But I've always felt like I have behaved in a way that is kind.  Any "snarkieness" on Opiophile was either meant as a joke, or in instances where I was defending myself.  I'd like to think most people don't view me as an asshole.  I assure you that's not how I intend to be.  If some do think of me that way, I'm not sure there's anything I could even do to change their opinion.

As for Fear's info.  The only thing I did was to talk about his affair.  I didn't even want to list names.  He's the one who started naming names.  I originally referred to the other two as male member and female member.  I also don't think I did anything "bad" because it was already well known.  I was even told he made a thread shortly after my banning about his relationship with his "friend," as he put it.  I'm sure most people could read that for what it was.  I know a few did.  I'm also not the one who listed his first name.  Dizzle called him by his first name.  I don't consider my actions as "outing him."  Sorry you disagree.
Expressing your views while considering the views of another without getting butt hurt is debating. Polite bitching is something else. You must be very passionate about the stance you take. Which is a good thing. But proper debates can grow both sides in terms of understanding and acceptance.
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