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Core Topics => Drugs => GABAergics => Topic started by: sk8phaze on November 14, 2015, 05:52:14 PM
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http://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/65405-phenibut-for-long-term-use/
I thought this was interesting, especially the part about effecting morphine dependence. I take 3.2g of phenibut daily with great Nootropic effects. It seems to have really helped me transition back to bupe. What are your thoughts on this?
I realize that tolerance quickly builds to phenibut's sedative effects, but maybe we are wrong in thinking it tolerance builds to all of its effects.
http://onlinelibrary...1.tb00211.x/pdf
on page 4 suggests
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Chronic administration of PB (50 mg kg i.p., twice daily for 5 days) promoted a tolerance to its sedative action on the last day of treatment while its nootropic effect was enhanced.
(the dosage here would be about 570mg in humans if injected. The bioavailability may not be good for phenibut orally, so the dosage would have to be adjusted accordingly)
and on page 5,
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Discontinuation of chronic injections of PB to rats increases the density of GABA A and BDZ receptors in striatum while that of GABA B is decreased (38). Chronically administered BDZs have opposite effects.
would suggest that phenibut both Increases GABA-B receptor sites (while also binding to them) and decreases sensitivity of GABA-A (since the opposite of those happen on discontinuation). The wording is a bit odd, though, and the next sentence claims that "Chronically administered BDZs have opposite effects". I assume they mean the administration has the opposite effects from the discontinuation of phenibut? That is strange wording, but BDZs decrease GABA-A sensitivity with chronic use, right?
The difference between the two, though, is that phenibut possesses action at GABA-B receptors which would become more sensitive over time as the GABA-A receptors return to homeostasis.
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Chronic i.p. administration of PB in mice antagonized the development of morphine dependence (5,6). BAC and sodium valproate had similar effects. PB also reduced naloxone-induced withdrawal effects in mice addicted to morphine (6).
on page 5 is also in line with the theory that GABA-B receptor action remains or increases with chronic use since GABA-B receptor agonists are known for decreasing drug dependence.
So, I think it is possible that phenibut possesses actual nootropic effects that we are overlooking by using it as a sedative. Although a crappy sedative due to swift tolerance, it could end up being a nice cognition/mood enhancer by acting on GABA-B receptors once the GABA-A receptors have downregulated to a homeostatic level.
I know it is only one paper, but do you think it is possible that phenibut exhibits nootropic effects through GABA-B receptors, and the initial effects that most people chase are only the effects on GABA-A receptors?
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Phenibut has been a blessing. I had tried it before as a Kratom potentiator,and it worked good but I never reordered it.
This time around I've been dosing 750mg - 1g in the morning with noopept and tianeptine before hitting the gym. It's been great my anxiety issues which are usually severe have almost disappeared. I crave less alcohol at night and for the first time in maybe a year I was able to sleep without drinking. I only dose that cocktail once in the morning. I'm sure if I upped the dose and did it a few times a day I could eliminate alcohol completely.
Phenibut is great to me.
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The Russians always bring some in their cosmonaut kits. There's probably like 200 grams or so on the ISS as we speak.
I trust the Russkies on their drugs. Them and the Krauts. Oh, and the Turks and the British too, and the Chinese and Vietnamese, Iranians, and Afghans too. Did I leave out any of the usual suspects?
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I take 2 grams of phenibut daily along with 2mg of suboxone daily, but it seems the phenibut only holds the suboxone on my receptors for 12 hours then i have to redose suboxone which makes it 4mg every 24 hours. Ive been off dope for a month now and i still get hot flashes if I don't redose it's really annoying. But when the two are working in harmony I feel great.