Is Marriage Obsolete ??

[Narkotikon]

I hate it when people give people gifts then expect something in return.

IT'S A GIFT!!!!!!!  A gift is something you're willingly giving to another person.  It means it's theirs from there on.  It is no longer yours.

You don't get to:

1.  Expect something in return if it's not agreed upon at the time.
2.  Tell them how to use the gift.
3.  Make them feel guilty for receiving the gift.
4.  Expect them to give the gift back.
5.  Expect them to kiss your ass b/c you gave them a gift. 

This reminds me of that Seinfeld episode where that guy gave Jerry a "brand new Armani suit."  Jerry tried to be kind by taking him out for a "meal."  Nope, soup isn't good enough.  Nope, this isn't good enough.  That's not good enough.  Just take the suit back.  Some gift. 

A gift is like an all-sales-final purchase IMO. 

[Riddick">Riddick]

Divorce rate is what, 51 percent? People that stay together for a long time just become content. Want to put on the blinders and not see anything else they like. Their comfortable with their life as it is. Going against the nature of a human-being is just asking for trouble.

[Daughter of Dionysus]

Even tho hero and I aren't married
Our relationship revolves around the fact that
I think he's the coolest thing since
Sliced bread
And have no desire to impress anyone else
Or to make anyone else laugh

It's an awesome feeling
Being able to make someone laugh
Especially someone that you are in love with

And after 15 years
I'm STILL
IN LOVE

[neighbor]

Even tho hero and I aren't married
Our relationship revolves around the fact that
I think he's the coolest thing since
Sliced bread
And have no desire to impress anyone else
Or to make anyone else laugh

It's an awesome feeling
Being able to make someone laugh
Especially someone that you are in love with

And after 15 years
I'm STILL
IN LOVE

this is just absolutely beautiful.

and yea, I think marriage is obsolete. I think it's unnecessary. Its archaic. It's a religious remnant. It has little to do with loving your partner and a lot to do with religion.

and thats where a lot of the gay marriage hoopla comes from: marriage itself is a religious institution. and I've got this weird feeling religious institutions don't care so much for the gays.

[Der Alte Krieger]

I believe in marriage. I have always said I wouldn't cohabit with a woman I wouldn't commit to, but I've broken other of my rules, too

I was proud to see a meme of that dumb bitch comparing her to  a couple of hugging gay newlyweds , and one of the couples was my son and his partner  taken from the front page of the NYT

[Jega]

I believe in marrying the woman you truly love[and it does exist]. The one you to wake up next to every morning. If that's Marriage , that I believe in .

[Morfy (OP)]

I believe in marrying the woman you truly love[and it does exist]. The one you to wake up next to every morning. If that's Marriage , that I believe in .

That is good, and I hope EVERY person that gets married feels likewise, but then there's the very real threat of having everything ripped away by an unhappy spouse with the full power of the courts behind them.

I guess the purpose for this thread is, if you want the joy of waking up to your spouse every day for the foreseeable future (or the other benefits of marriage, procreation, etc...), does one have to risk being financial-ruined??

What if you make a mistake with the first marriage?  Will you be financially able to try a second one?  Would your next spouse be happy that 67% of your income is going to your last spouse?? (rhetorical)

If that second marriage doesn't work, and you're paying 67% of your income to your first spouse, and 67% to your last spouse.  In my book, that means living 34% over your means each month--no money for an apartment, food, or anything.

How eager would potential Spouse #3 be to get tangled-up in THAT mess? (again, rhetorical)

* I'm thinking divorce-reform is needed; something closer to Scandinavia's, which might cost $250, and a reasonable alimony that may last a year, or so at most.

Morfy's Note: As more women are having to pay their former husbands alimony, they are realizing that our current divorce system is extremely unfair and crippling.  So change may be coming, but the divorce industry would have a lot to lose, so they will fight any changes.

[Chip]

as a drug user, married or not, i say that's it's best to keep track of what's yours and their's and have SEPERATE accounts.

that way, there is less pressure and should you be forced to live apart, then the foundations are there.

as drug users, we often prioritise drugs above everything, mainly due to the physical addiction of opiates or even the psychological pull of stimulants, but it's good to remember that relationships are the MOST important issue.

although i an seperated, i still put my relationship as top priority and things are slowly improving between us, despite not living together at the moment.

taking good drugs all the time but being by yourself is no way to live once the novelty wears off.

yeah, to recap: i recommend separate accounts and cannot stress the value of independence in modern relationships.

[Pullmyhair.]

I've never heard of alimony payments equaling anywhere near 67% of a person's income (at least not in the last 30 years). In fact the consumer credit protection act limits most alimonies (in the form of wage garnishment) to a maximum of 50% (with the absolute maximum in very specific circumstances being 66%). The national average is said to be around 20%, though it can vary depending on a variety of factors. Morfy, I can't help but feel like you seem a little bitter about the whole topic.

[Morfy (OP)]

Thanks PMH,

I should have added: Alimony plus child support equaling 67%.  But I am basing this off of nothing, just an example.

And most courts use "Imputed Income" not actual income to determine payments.  I'm told that even if my actual income was $5K per month, but the courts think I should be earning $7K (imputed income), then I would have to pay 50% of $7K not $5K.

So I would, in fact be paying $3500 per month, which is 70% of my actual take home pay.

And that would be separate from any child support.

PMH, I am not bitter, never been married, never will be.  I DO see many people, men & women who are unnecessarily entering this meat grinder, thinking:

"Those bad things only happy to other people, it won't happen to me and my schnookums!"  Until it does.  And they're devastated, emotionally, financially, legally.

As comedian Bill Burr says: "Would you go sky diving if over 50% of the parachutes were known to be defective?" [paraphrased]. 

Using this analogy, this thread is asking: "Why are you guys still going sky diving?"

And if divorce weren't so profitable, we'd have a more reasonable system.  Divorce opens up a family's assets for legal plundering like nothing else in society--not even death.

[Jega]

I know divorce rates are about 50% and Alimony plus child support is a big fucking problem. My parents got divorced so i've been on both sides of this, but call me a helpless romantic if you like.

I still wish I could wake up next to a woman I love every day. It would make my day so much better to know someone loves me too.

[Morfy (OP)]

I know divorce rates are about 50% and Alimony plus child support is a big fucking problem. My parents got divorced so i've been on both sides of this, but call me a helpless romantic if you like.

I still wish I could wake up next to a woman I love every day. It would make my day so much better to know someone loves me too.

Buddy, I think most men feel this way--I sure do. 

It comes down to a person's tolerance for risks -vs- reward: are you willing to take a substantial risk for this reward? 

I wish the risk end of things lessened considerably.

[Jega]

Buddy, I think most men feel this way--I sure do. 

It comes down to a person's tolerance for risks -vs- reward: are you willing to take a substantial risk for this reward? 

I wish the risk end of things lessened considerably.

I think you're right. But I've found love before,. I was just too much of a dumbass to deal with it.

But when you really fall in love with someone you think about them every damn day.

To me, that marriage without sharing your day,the ring and the sex.

She can have my money if I could have her. That's marriage too.

[Andi]

I don't think it's obsolete, but I do feel that all it is is a legally binding contract.

I married the wrong man. I knew it walking down the isle, but I put my heart and soul into and didn't give up easily. Even the first two years after my injury and he started to become abusive, I still had hope things would change.

Now days more and more people are sharing custody 50/50. Which usually means no child support and both parties carry health insurance. Alimony is given but it's very short term and you have to be married a certain number of years to even qualify. Utah it was 10. If you have any kind of a work history, you're not getting it for more than a year or two.

Now the house and possessions, that's individualized. I only wanted what I and the kids use and I stayed in the house until it sold or foreclosed.

I was offered alimony for the duration of our marriage, but I wasn't seeking that.

Anyway, we were pretty amicable at the mediation. Which is what you do in Utah before seeing a judge to see if you can work things out. My ex only contested the amount of time he got with his kids and that was only so he wouldn't have to pay more in child support. He couldn't give a fuck if he sees them or has much of a relationship with them. How do I know? Well, 1-he was willing to let them move 2 states away as soon as I said I didn't want anymore child support because I had them more and 2- we're going on living here for over a year and he's talked to my youngest 0x on the phone or Skype/facetime. He only talks to my oldest if he calls his dad or my ex needs to know if my youngest is using all their data. (I was going to put him on my plan, but I was waiting until he's older. So serves him right for not listening to me and buying him a shitty Samsung phone.) They don't know him and he doesn't know them. Unfortunately, they do have to go there for either Xmas or thanksgiving, depending on the year and almost 2 months in the summer.

I was really never one to care about getting married. I doubt I would have, but I couldn't get prenatal care anywhere but through his job in the military. I loved him, it's just I never had the desire to walk down the isle. In fact, I couldn't tell you a thing that was said because the two of us were trying our hardest not to laugh through it.

I'm still not. I've had do many married men hit on me it's not funny. Where's the sanctity or loyalty in that. As one guy told me, "it's just a piece of paper." But then rings don't plug holes either.

Really, I don't care what anyone else does. I'm happy where I'm at. If we decide to marry, fantastic. If we never marry, fantastic. I only care that we stay together and stay in love. Thoms is the first person I can open up to, tell him my past all of it, cry in front of and make myself vulnerable because I trust him. He's the first person I've been with that I miss even if he's gone for an hr (and no I'm not one of those psycho girls that will blow his phone up. Even if he's late. He may just get a text asking if he's ok). I try to better myself for him. I made a vow to myself that I was never going to be in a relationship that if I fought with them names would be called. And to this day we haven't. Hell, we haven't even had an argument where we yelled at each other. He make me laugh, smile and feel important to him. Which is something I've never had and I don't take that for granted. Plus, his family is good to me and my kids. My ex's mom and brother were horrible to me and for the dumbest shit.

Anyway, get married or not, but don't let it define you. And certainly don't let the what ifs stop you or keep you in a marriage.

[Morfy (OP)]

Andi,

Thank you for your story and offering a much-needed PoV.

 

[Cee]

I think marriage is the best way to ruin is a good relationship