The Bernese Method (md -> bup)

[Opus (OP)]

I may be posting a little prematurely here, but this seems to work:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4959756/

Worked pretty well a year or two ago, lucky me I get to try again..

'luck..

[Raine]

Thank you for sharing this.
This type of post is so helpful.

I wish you the best of luck and the least discomfort possible!

[Güey]

Cool article.  Id really like to hear from people who have tried this,  as far as how good it works...

Ive never had much luck with subs unfortunately,  and this seems like it would make, at the least,
 induction a whole helluva lot easier.

Just thinking about PWD is getting me antsy....

[bl4cklabel]

@Opus

When you used this method a year or two ago, was it to transition from MD to bupe? How long did you micro-dose for before you made the jump to only using bupe?

Did you slowly increase your bupe dose?

[Opus (OP)]

The last time I did this I had $$ and was able to cop as I wanted, so the transition involved a lot of short-term agonists and time. I don't have any of those luxuries this time around, the MD taper is very quick.

So far I've had my dose cut in half and I seem to be doing ok, but we'll see. This taper is really brutal, but through the magic of lop and bup, I might be able to pull it off.

I'll post back with a schedule.

[Edhorfin]

Idid it from pods to subutex. Started first day ofter taking pods, with 1/8 of a 2mg. Every hour, I took another. After two hours, I felt better than ever. Glow was ON!!

Haven't lookd back since. 1/2 mg of subutex a day keeps me happy and generally pain free,

[Opus (OP)]

Ok, so not completely out of the woods yet, but I can see the beach and I actually feel really good so here goes - this is how I handled what should have been a really brutal detox (100 -> 0 in 15 days, after 6mos+ at this dose). I fully expected to be hospitalized, but truth is I feel better than I did a week ago. Today is day 9, I've had a little over 3mg bup, 30mg MD and only about 30mg lop so far this morning. Nine days ago at 100mg I was frequently nauseous in the mornings with really heavy yawning starting in the evenings.

The theory is that the antagonistic properties (affinity or pure agonism I'm not sure) of buprenorphine make it very tough to switch over to from something as long-acting and as fat-soluble as methadone (not sure if that's about affinity or what but that's the gist). I'm not crystal clear on the mechanisms involved but I felt I had enough of a grasp to try this and it seems to have worked.

The trick is to start with really small (micro) doses of buprenorphine and then slowly build up (the naloxone is irrelevant at these sublingual doses, it's an IV abuse deterrent). The first day I was cut 7mg, I took about .5mg bup. Second day, maybe 1mg. 3rd day, 1mg. 4th, 2mg. ... About the 6th day, I tried 4mg in two pieces over about 4hrs, and it was a little rough. I take these crumbs right after I drink whatever methadone I have coming, hoping to have some methadone following the bup - in previous experience I've noticed that full agonists work ok as long as I don't take more than about 4mg bup. This is probably subjective and might be different for someone else.

And the glue that made this near painless was loperamide. Two doses of 25x2mg, and then like one more 13x2mg dose in the evening has kept the yuck away. So far I feel completely fine before the methadone in the morning, and usually I don't, usually I'm sick because I metabolize the methadone quickly.

TLDR: I did another microdose induction over to bup while covering the methadone debt with loperamide, and it worked like a fucking charm.

HTHS

BTW anyone talk to that lawyer chick lately? Her name escapes me..

[Opus (OP)]

I think day 13 today and yesterday I stopped all the loperamide, just suboxone since last night. Other than rough sleep/hot flashes and a little zooky this am I feel about %80. This completely works. I probably would have tapered off the lop a little longer but it was fucking with me, not sure why. Maybe all the binders and shit. It might be worth extracting that stuff, but I haven't looked into it.

Anyway, 100 -> 0 in 14 days. Cake.

[Chip]

amazing.

wonderful and valuable information.

well done, bro'

[Opus (OP)]

Soluble in ethanol (10mg/ml). Also slightly soluble in water, and probably very soluble in IPA.

[Opus (OP)]

Now about 4 days without a single drop of methadone, but no problems with 8mg. suboxone this am, which is a lot for me.

So like 17 days into this now and it's really apparent that the trick is to start with a lot of lop and just a little bup, and then work towards the opposite (no lop, >bup). I had a lot of symptoms at first, even when I took a lot of lop (never more than 140mg/day, and always with magnesium and potassium), so if you do this expect to be chasing some symptoms.

The combination of these two work amazingly well for sudden transitions to suboxone though, I would have never thought I'd be ok on subs this fast. I'm damned glad I had that stash, as I'd be in a fucking hospital and probably headed for a rehab right now, but instead I feel fine.

Anyway, figured it was worth a follow-up. Hopefully this helps someone someday.