The victory of knowing who you are

[sickboy (OP)]

One of my favorite fictional characters once said, "you reach a certain age and you know who you are.  Now I live in a little room, out in the country, behind a bar, I work four nights, and in between I drink, and there ain't nobody there to stop me.  I know who I am and after all these years, there is a victory in that."

I first started smoking pot when I was 15.  Started drinking heavily at 17.  Turned to Heroin at 27.  I've been addicted to those there substances, intermittently, with some long stretches of sobriety in between, mostly utilizing 12 step programs and extreme physical endurance activities. (marathon running, cycling) to keep the monkey off my back.

I am down to 10 mgs on my methadone taper and I am really looking forward to getting that monkey off my back.  Being a Junkie is not cool anymore, it has lost its appeal and made me soft.  In my experience, opiates made me a soft person.  I used to be a hard guy, not partially a good fighter, but never afraid of a good old scrap either.  I was just a grunt.  I used to able to work all day, in extreme weather conditions, for months at a time.  I was mentally tough too, what would be considered hardships to others, I used to be able to just bulldog my way through any situation.

I am about to turn 33 or 34 soon.  And those familiar with the 12 steps groups and their slogans, the one that fucks with me the most is, "It is the great obsession of every addict that somehow, someway, they will beat the game."

Being in and out of NA and AA since I was 18 gave me this complex that if I wasn't a 100% sober, I was failing at life.  So the point to this rambling post is, can you beat the game?  Not the dope (opiate) game, but the drug game general?

I've always been a garbage head and I feel if I get back into my ultra endurance activities and into a career I am passionate about, I still can get high. Mostly on pot and just sprinkling in ALL of the other lovely drugs in the world from time to time.

Short story long...is this possible?  Is anybody out there succeeding?  Because I know who I am.  And unless some sort of divine intervention takes place, I feel I will always get high on something for the rest of my life.

[nick]

You can't beat the "game". No one ever beats the game. The best one can hope for is a draw and extra time.

To be honest,the term "game" is woefully lacking when it comes to addiction. Addiction isn't a game.

P.S. For some of us,the one thing worse than using drugs is not using drugs.

P.P.S. Dope might make us physically soft,but it has a nasty habit of making the parts of us that really matter,the heart  and the head,really,really hard.   

[sickboy (OP)]

You can't beat the "game". No one ever beats the game. The best one can hope for is a draw and extra time.

To be honest,the term "game" is woefully lacking when it comes to addiction. Addiction isn't a game.

P.S. For some of us,the one thing worse than using drugs is not using drugs.

P.P.S. Dope might make us physically soft,but it has a nasty habit of making the parts of us that really matter,the heart  and the head,really,really hard.   

A draw...I'll take that! 

Of course addiction is not a game, I was just using "game" as a euphemism because of the infamous Big Book quote.

I agree a dope habit has its upsides, you know all the inventive ways one conjures up to stay well.  Plus kicking a dope habit that compares to a tour in vietnam will give one heart, grit and all that jazz.  The physical stuff, I was just talking about myself, and I didn't mean to cast any  dispersions onto other opiate users.

I am not sure why I even shared this.  I've been accused of glamourising this lifestyle.  When I see young cats in rehab doing the same I want to say, this is really not a cool to live, and to get out if you can.  At the same time I usually will have a blast talking about the crazy and fun times I've had living this way and even the bad shit is funny when you look back on it. 

The victory is in accepting who you are and not letting 12 step people or therapist make you feel less than.  This is true for the lifer or the person in recovery. 

I don't know, it's 3:58 am...

[6-mam]

Nothing wrong with sharing your feeling man. This is a good place to do it because a lot of us feel the struggle and related in a lot of ways.

If you value your physical strength and losing it is making you feel like less of a person then it's an understandable thing. We all have our personal values about ourselves and you have to be you or you're just going to be miserable.

But personally I don't value or care about that, mainly because I never had any (I'm a small skinny guy who downtown fight or work in physically demanding jobs) to lose. If anything I feel stronger and more capable to do that kind of stuff. Have you ever thought about or have tried subs? I know done has that testie issuse maybe that's the problem. I don't know though. You don't ever have to apologize for being yourself and expressing your personal values.

What do you think is causing your lack of strength? 10 mgs is not that much. If you enjoy life sober I say go for it!,it's much better when you can 've happy and sober at the same time. But if not then try and keep it for occasions. You seem like you're already doing that and just maintaining.

So what is really the main issue?
34? You're just getting started man!!

The only thing I hate so far in this lifestyle is when I run out! Other then that I'm happy but even I still kind of wish the addiction want present. It does blow NEEDING something to function and if you forget or something gets in the way it's a world of pain.

Whatever you do good luck buddy.

[LadyKalma]

Hey, OP I'm glad you made this post, cause it identifies a lot of things i've been feeling lately. For one thing, I want to still get high and not be sick all the time, so some months ago I went through an ibogaine detox thing, got off the daily needle use, and am now just using kratom daily. But I don't feel like my mind is any different, like, if it were up to me and if my husband wouldn't be extremely pissed I bet I would have went back to what I was doing before by now.

Also, I've been going to NA lately, out of boredom, and usually feel like a huge hypocrite cause my goal is not to be clean, never has been. My goal is to use strong opiates occasionally, like max once a month is my rule. And I can't say that it definatly works because back in the day I allowed myself pills only occasionally and i still ended up with an iv h habit years down the road. But I can say that NA I feel like has given me some better techniques of thinking differently so that many times when I crave dope its easier to talk myself down from it. Since I have had it only like 4 times since oct. I think I am currently winning the game.

That being said, constant vigilance is required, cause I can't afford to get back on dope, financially. I also really want kratom to keep working for me since I do wake up sick feeling before I have it in the morning, so I do need something still, and I want it to be the cheapest thing I can get, basically. And the way I was using before, I wasn't really getting high. So I have convinced myself that if I actually love getting high, I will not do it all the time so it will still be possible. I believe the ibogaine was most useful in this regaurd- lowering my tolerence pretty instantly. Other than that, I didn't have any experience like what people say will happen, but thats a story for a different thread....

So, I know I'm rambing, but all in all, I just wanted to say, here's another not totally clean person going to NA. Take what works for you from their message, leave the rest, ya know? Your life is your life, how do they know whats good for you better than you do? I honestly think if I couldnt ever have opiates again I'd probably kill myself now, so that's why I can't stand that never again bullshit they preach. Getting to have it again some day in the future keeps me going on the days I don't get to. Since you have used long term you will probably have just as big of a problem with giving everything up forever, so maybe you can only win the game if you change the rules of what it means to win from being clean to being where you want to be in life and happy.

[dillydudeEL14]

I really connect with what you said op.  Im a little younger than you, (not much im 28) and I have a lot of those same feelings.  I was in very good physical shape until about 20 or 21 which is also when i really started using oipiates regularly..coincidence? lol idk, but I know exactly what you mean about feeling soft now.  Like I just feel physically and mentally exhausted and spent unless im loaded and then I am just stupidly satisfied and i chainsmoke cigs on my back porch. 

I have never been to NA, but I wanna try it.  The quote you mentioned about beating the game resonates with me too.  I always wanna have my cake and eat it too.  I wanna gethigh but not get addicted.  So far it hasnt really worked for me .  I guess if i somehow obtain a huge amount of independednt wealth i can kind of beat the game.  id still be addicted i just wouldnt hardl;y ever have to go without and i wouldnt have to work.

Idk thats just fantasy talk though for me.  I am ata  point where I really wanna stop and try rehab.  I just need to.  My family relationships are going to shit and i really do have a wonderful family that i dont wanna keep hurting.

Anyway dude great post .  I think a lot of us can relate to what you said.  I know I do. Rep.

*idk if i did the rep thing right I've never done it before.  My bad if not*

[bonedust]

OP--You fucking hit the nail right on the head.

I've just very recently kicked dope. That's all fine and dandy but I too know that I will always be high on something. Someone once told me I was "very enlightened and self-aware".
I'm not ashamed to admit I need drugs, and probably will till I'm dead.

BTW I'm well aware that someday I will be on dope again. Basically I'm taking a long break. Whatevs man, that's just how I turned out. I haven't been sober from various things since I was 13 and I'm 34 now.

[Thoms]

Not every pony grows up to be a Pegasus. It felt good to open up to my parry about shooting dope. Hell my bosses know. Everyone has been pretty damn cool about it because I just got on done. Well fuck I guess that's 9 months back so not really just. Lol

[6-mam]

I know I'm fucking miserable alone and don't know what to do with myself. I'm a co-dependant person and feel the constant need to be with a partner. Coupled with the sex drive of a 19 year old not 29. It's to fulfill something missing ,probably just simple closeness and completely openeing my self to someone, I replace it with drugs. On top of legitimate medical issues I'm self medicating for, and have been my adult most of teenage life...

I know myself well I think. I chose my path most of the time. I chose heroin, I chose drugs, I chose the needle, and I knew the pain it was going to cause....

I'm also choosing to be sick right now so I can get on subs tomorrow, so I don't have to worry about being sick. So I'll have piece of mind the amount of money I'd take to get high, and hopefully stop loving something that doesn't love me back and deal with the pain and fear of being alone and helpless.

I don't care how sick I am, I'm not robbing anyone or downright stealing from my family. I can't to do, I've tried. I tried to sell fake hydros to tourists; couldn't do it, tried to pan handle, couldn't beg, tried to shoplift, couldn't do it, I had to ask for a hand out from my dealer and that's as far as i could take it; even sick as shit.

It was then I realized I'm just not hard enough for junkie street life, and I have to much pride and care to much about others to fuck someone over. I've stolen taken spawned shit no mine but honestly I'd do that for anything, I've done it for tobacco..... Weed..... I just care to much for my body to kill it slowly. I'd rather get on subs or buy seeds I'm done with seeds though I'm jumping on subs before they get watched...

I know I'm gunna be on opiates for life. Don't care that much as long as I don't run out. I've been sober and it's not for me.

[wanderingmind]

I think one of the things that AA/NA got "wrong" was the 100% sober thing or what is referred to as "abstinence-based recovery."  What I think they meant was that you can't use alcohol or other drugs (heroin, oxycodone, cocaine, meth...those types of drugs) and consider yourself sober.  When these programs started, they had no way to know that there would be things like methadone and Suboxone.  I too felt like the OP when I was on MMT.  It was very hard for me to feel "sober" while I was at AA meetings even though I was not abusing my take-homes.

I am very glad that science and the medical community is producing studies showing the effectiveness of these maintenance programs.  AA/NA is slowly but surely starting to accept the changing views on these types of medications. 

Here's a personal example.  Five years ago, when I was on MMT, there were some in my home group that had an "issue" with me being on MMT.  By no means did they ever feel as though I shouldn't come to the meeting or AA in general.  It's more like they just were not familiar with MMT and it made them uncomfortable.  Fast forward to now.  I regularly go to detox and treatments with others from my home group to speak about our "experience, strength and hope."  My home group has come to realize that opioids are becoming an epidemic.  After hearing my story, they have begun to accept that MMT and Suboxone works very well.  Further, as long as you are not abusing these medications, you are in fact "sober."

I'm curious to see what the future holds when it comes to the shift in marijuana policies.

[OpiXPO]

Well, the literature from NA and AA makes it pretty clear that if the prescribing doctor knows about your history and still is willing to write the script and you don't abuse it, it's fine. In regards to methadone and suboxone. My only issue is when you're doing methadone and chasing the nod to the point that you're nodding out for minutes at a time in the meeting and got the twitching going on. And then trying to sponsor.